From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #41 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, February 9 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 041 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning [Les Irvin ] Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning [Dave Black] 15 fun facts about C&S [Betsy Blue ] jessica molaskey [David Lahm ] Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning [Anita ] Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 [Bob Muller ] Re: Troubadour bar [Michael Paz ] Re: 15 fun facts about C&S [Bob Muller ] Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning [Anita G ] Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning ["Susan E. ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:01:52 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning The unfortunate aspect of all this is that the fan-based transcriptions have, as Anita mentioned, yet to be properly recognized and respected. The debate will probably never be resolved as to the "exact way" that Joni played these - Joni doesn't remember, and it's certainly possible that Joel may have - at times - inexact notes or memory. In questions like this re Dawntreader (I expect more of them to come up) it's all about knowing what left-hand shapes Joni tends to use, what shapes she would probably never use, listening for open strings, watching video of Joni playing them, etc... I think the JoniMitchell.com team of guitarists (primarily Sue, Marian, Howard, Dave, and Mark) are the best suited people on the planet to know these details and assess the "correct" way to play them. Hopefully someday they'll get the respect and recognition they deserve. If it weren't for the pricey copyrights, I think they should write their own book! For now, the transcriptions on the website are real good, for free. On 2/8/2014 10:10 AM, Anita G wrote: > Joni thanks Joel Bernstein for preserving the tunings, which is great, > but I was SO surprised that there was no mention of Sue, Marian, Mark > Howard nor your good self, Dave, who have made the songs accessible > to us minions. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 15:51:11 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 Thank you Jimmy I needed a real good licking... On Feb 8, 2014, at 2:50 PM, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: Glad about the covers, but Punxutawney Phil doesn't recognize Florida. We've had record highs in the upper 80's in both January and this month. How I long for some cool weather. With that said, thanks again Mr. Muller for a fine bunch of covers ( :PPPP to Mr. Paz) Debbi Wheeler does a great job with "All I want". I like country music, and her twist on the song brings a new light. I'm glad Magret Wessel sent you her recording of "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio" Loved that German accent. Well worth the wait. Pierre Dorge & Christian Sievert's BSN was borderline cheese, but not cheesy enough for me to like it. My favorite has to be Le Bang Bang's ACOY. Couldn't find that much about them, but the female singer was exceptional, and I love it that she sang with just the accompaniment of a stand up bass. Very classy! Most of the covers were pretty good. Not a bad one in the bunch. Happy Saturday my Joni friends, and thanks again Bob! Jimmy In a message dated 2/8/2014 10:47:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, scjoniguy@yahoo.com writes: > Well, Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow and I see the a stack of covers so > we'll have 6 more weeks of winter and a whole lot more covers. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 15:50:06 -0500 (EST) From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 Glad about the covers, but Punxutawney Phil doesn't recognize Florida. We've had record highs in the upper 80's in both January and this month. How I long for some cool weather. With that said, thanks again Mr. Muller for a fine bunch of covers ( :PPPP to Mr. Paz) Debbi Wheeler does a great job with "All I want". I like country music, and her twist on the song brings a new light. I'm glad Magret Wessel sent you her recording of "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio" Loved that German accent. Well worth the wait. Pierre Dorge & Christian Sievert's BSN was borderline cheese, but not cheesy enough for me to like it. My favorite has to be Le Bang Bang's ACOY. Couldn't find that much about them, but the female singer was exceptional, and I love it that she sang with just the accompaniment of a stand up bass. Very classy! Most of the covers were pretty good. Not a bad one in the bunch. Happy Saturday my Joni friends, and thanks again Bob! Jimmy In a message dated 2/8/2014 10:47:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, scjoniguy@yahoo.com writes: > Well, Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow and I see the a stack of covers so > we'll have 6 more weeks of winter and a whole lot more covers. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 08:51:02 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning I play it DGDDAD and it sounds right. On Feb 8, 2014, at 8:39 AM, Anita G wrote: > I have been looking through this book (which is absolutely brilliant) > and I think I may have spotted something that doesn't seem to work for > me and would welcome hearing what my fellow listers thinks. > > The wonderful 'Dawntreader' (all hail the mighty song) tuning is > listed as DGDDGD. Having refrained from playing it since ruining it at > French Joni Fest, today, as there was no-one around, I thought I'd > tune up and give it a go. Playing with the G at the top made it quite > peculiar on the shapes I was used to, so I re-checked on joni.com and > found a couple of versions, one by Thomas Morris (Tuning=DADF#AD) and > the one I used by Tino Meinen (DGDDAD) which makes much easier to > play. The tuning in the new book (with the G instead of the A at the > top) seems quite a faff to play. > > Does anyone (Sue, Dave, Marion and all you fine guitarists out there) > know which tuning Joni actually used to play The Dawntreader? And can > any of you play it as it is written in the new book with the G instead > if the A? > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 09:39:44 -0800 From: Betsy Blue Subject: 15 fun facts about C&S Unlike the 20 Things You Didn't Know from a few months ago, I actually learned stuff instead of wanting to make corrections. http://www.thatericalper.com/2014/01/16/40-years-ago-today-joni-mitchell-released-court-and-spark-here-are-15-fun-facts-about-the-album/ Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 18:54:48 -0500 From: David Lahm Subject: jessica molaskey Jessica Molaskey, a pretty successful New York singer, will be doing a Joni Mitchell evening in town Thursday the 20th. Go to her website, if you are interested, for details and an audio of THE CIRCLE GAME. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 20:17:39 +0000 From: Anita Subject: Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning Les wrote: > For now, the transcriptions on the website are real good, for free. Which means they are priceless Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:18:36 -0800 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Re: 15 fun facts about C&S Ahh, you caught one, Bob. I'm a terrible proofreader, but I know when the narrative is wrong. Betsy the Humble On Feb 8, 2014 10:05 AM, "Bob Muller" wrote: > Well, if you wanted to make a correction you could say that Raised on > Robbery was released in 1973, not 1972. When I read that it didn't sound > right and some quick research confirmed it. Having said that, a fun little > read. > > Bob > > NP: John Butler Trio, "Wings Are Wide" > *From:* Betsy Blue > *To:* joni@smoe.org > *Sent:* Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:39 PM > *Subject:* 15 fun facts about C&S > > Unlike the 20 Things You Didn't Know from a few months ago, I actually > learned stuff instead of wanting to make corrections. > > > http://www.thatericalper.com/2014/01/16/40-years-ago-today-joni-mitchell-released-court-and-spark-here-are-15-fun-facts-about-the-album/ > > Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 08:55:18 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 Twice in a row, my brain tricked me into thinking that, where it says "Betsy Miller," it said "Bette Midler" instead and I was getting really excited over Bette Midler singing a bunch of Joni songs. For me, six weeks more of winter would be a short winter indeed, but those groundhogs can still go to hell, because what I would love to see is temps going above -20C. It has been a very cold winter this year and I really do have the urge for going somewhere even a bit warmer. Too bad I'm broke. >________________________________ > From: Bob Muller >To: JMDL >Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 10:43:16 AM >Subject: Joni Covers Volume 182 > > >Well, Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow and I see the a stack of covers so we'll have 6 more weeks of winter and a whole lot more covers. >Here's a brand-new one, Volume 182 with a good variety of stuff. Debi Wheeler kicks things off with a fun ramblin' alt-country sounding 'All I Want', Pablo Held performs a great extended instrumental version of 'Marcie', Leah Uijterlinde's 'River' is very tasty. Stephen Prina's 'A Case Of You' is an excerpt of a VERY long piece titled "Concerto For Modern, Movie, And Pop Music For Ten Instruments And Voice". Betsy Miller turns in a hat trick, Sarah Passmore sounds like she needs to blow her nose, and I always love to hear 'Urge For Going', especially this time of year when there are hints of spring. >Thanks to Paul and also to Magret Wessel who sent me her recording that had been on my want list for a decade. > >http://goo.gl/TvOKKH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 13:30:53 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 Thanks Jimmy! Le Bang Bang is a German duo, they have a pretty good website that gives you some photos, video and information. Be sure to select the English version and click on info. http://lebangbang.de/ I thought this was an excellent track as well. You would love the weather we're having right now. high 50's and sunny. Just got back from running 6.6 miles. Bob NP: Big Head Todd & The Monsters, "Josephina" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 15:49:47 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Troubadour bar LMAO!!!!! Good one there Dulson! Thanks for sharing On Feb 8, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Steve Dulson wrote: There was a foolish discussion on the FAR-West list about where Joni was from - foolish because someone disagreed with ME! :) Joel Tepp, a wonderful musician from Seattle nailed it when he wrote: Joan was born in Alberta, raised in Saskatoon but she really grew up in the Troubadour bar. Interestingly enough, her avian companions in the Bar (Byrds for sure, but especially Eagles) managed to postpone growing up for at least another two decades. Opinions differ. Over time, they hired Peter Pan on guitar (Joe Walsh), and most surprisingly, Hook as their manager (Irving Azoff), and sailed off singing songs about Hotel Never-Never Land. As is traditional, they sprinkled magic dust everywhere and conjured up happy thoughts while they went flying. "I do believe in groupies. I do believe in groupies." Joel *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA FAR-West (Folk Alliance Region - West) tinkersown@ca.rr.com www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:05:12 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: 15 fun facts about C&S Well, if you wanted to make a correction you could say that Raised on Robbery was released in 1973, not 1972. When I read that it didn't sound right and some quick research confirmed it. Having said that, a fun little read. Bob NP: John Butler Trio, "Wings Are Wide" ________________________________ From: Betsy Blue To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:39 PM Subject: 15 fun facts about C&S Unlike the 20 Things You Didn't Know from a few months ago, I actually learned stuff instead of wanting to make corrections. http://www.thatericalper.com/2014/01/16/40-years-ago-today-joni-mitchell-released-court-and-spark-here-are-15-fun-facts-about-the-album/ Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 17:10:14 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning n 08/02/2014, Dave Blackburn wrote: >' I play it DGDDAD and it sounds right.' Joni must have forgotten the tuning I guess :~) For folk who haven't seen this book yet, it is much better than I had anticipated. Some lovely photos and even dulcimer tunings. I like that it's called the 'Complete - so far' .A nice light touch. Joni thanks Joel Bernstein for preserving the tunings, which is great, but I was SO surprised that there was no mention of Sue, Marian, Mark Howard nor your good self, Dave, who have made the songs accessible to us minions. Never mind, she's probably saving the thanks for Volume 2, Anita O > > > > > On Feb 8, 2014, at 8:39 AM, Anita G wrote: > >> I have been looking through this book (which is absolutely brilliant) >> and I think I may have spotted something that doesn't seem to work for >> me and would welcome hearing what my fellow listers thinks. >> >> The wonderful 'Dawntreader' (all hail the mighty song) tuning is >> listed as DGDDGD. Having refrained from playing it since ruining it at >> French Joni Fest, today, as there was no-one around, I thought I'd >> tune up and give it a go. Playing with the G at the top made it quite >> peculiar on the shapes I was used to, so I re-checked on joni.com and >> found a couple of versions, one by Thomas Morris (Tuning=DADF#AD) and >> the one I used by Tino Meinen (DGDDAD) which makes much easier to >> play. The tuning in the new book (with the G instead of the A at the >> top) seems quite a faff to play. >> >> Does anyone (Sue, Dave, Marion and all you fine guitarists out there) >> know which tuning Joni actually used to play The Dawntreader? And can >> any of you play it as it is written in the new book with the G instead >> if the A? >> Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:28:59 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning One point about songbooks in general is that they might be perfectly accurate, and great for learning the song, but the format is of little use when actually performing, with the many page turns, tiny fonts, and the book binding not allowing it to lay flat. The spiral bound books of actual charts are much better for this than the traditional publishers format. Another point concerns proof-reading. Many times the artist themself doesnt read music so they are not much help in proofing a transcription and a publisher will often hire the cheapest undergrad transcriber they can find and take their work as offered, assuming it to be correct. Finally, you can often play a song perfectly in several different tunings and hand shapes, which may not be what the artist originally did. I use that to my advantage to keep the retunings to a minimum during shows. The sound is the same (Kay Ashley would probably disagree, saying the sonority of each tuning is a big part of the music - shed be right, but Im talking about the notes themselves.) Dave On Feb 8, 2014, at 10:01 AM, Les Irvin wrote: > The unfortunate aspect of all this is that the fan-based transcriptions have, as Anita mentioned, yet to be properly recognized and respected. The debate will probably never be resolved as to the "exact way" that Joni played these - Joni doesn't remember, and it's certainly possible that Joel may have - at times - inexact notes or memory. > > In questions like this re Dawntreader (I expect more of them to come up) it's all about knowing what left-hand shapes Joni tends to use, what shapes she would probably never use, listening for open strings, watching video of Joni playing them, etc... I think the JoniMitchell.com team of guitarists (primarily Sue, Marian, Howard, Dave, and Mark) are the best suited people on the planet to know these details and assess the "correct" way to play them. > > Hopefully someday they'll get the respect and recognition they deserve. If it weren't for the pricey copyrights, I think they should write their own book! For now, the transcriptions on the website are real good, for free. > > On 2/8/2014 10:10 AM, Anita G wrote: >> Joni thanks Joel Bernstein for preserving the tunings, which is great, >> but I was SO surprised that there was no mention of Sue, Marian, Mark >> Howard nor your good self, Dave, who have made the songs accessible >> to us minions. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 14:31:29 -0500 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Troubadour bar There was a foolish discussion on the FAR-West list about where Joni was from - foolish because someone disagreed with ME! :) Joel Tepp, a wonderful musician from Seattle nailed it when he wrote: Joan was born in Alberta, raised in Saskatoon but she really grew up in the Troubadour bar. Interestingly enough, her avian companions in the Bar (Byrds for sure, but especially Eagles) managed to postpone growing up for at least another two decades. Opinions differ. Over time, they hired Peter Pan on guitar (Joe Walsh), and most surprisingly, Hook as their manager (Irving Azoff), and sailed off singing songs about Hotel Never-Never Land. As is traditional, they sprinkled magic dust everywhere and conjured up happy thoughts while they went flying. "I do believe in groupies. I do believe in groupies." Joel *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA FAR-West (Folk Alliance Region - West) tinkersown@ca.rr.com www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 04:30:10 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning Thanks Les for your very kind words and the space you have given us low these many years to make some of the most beautiful music in the world accessible to anyone who has the courage to try and play it ... And thanks so much to my compatriot transcribers for their hard work. I haven't gotten my book yet, Anita, but I know I've been playing The Way It Is (a song that is not in the book but is on the site transcribed by Marian) and Dawntreader lately in DGDDAD and it sounds right on to me. I agree with Les that if you really want to play these songs exactly how Joni plays it ... Watch the videos and listen to the recordings and get into her head and after a while you will notice that there are certain fingering shapes she would most likely not use. I'm sure I'll have more to say on this subject when the book is in hand. Take care, Sue Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 8, 2014, at 1:10 PM, "Les Irvin" wrote: > > The unfortunate aspect of all this is that the fan-based transcriptions have, as Anita mentioned, yet to be properly recognized and respected. The debate will probably never be resolved as to the "exact way" that Joni played these - Joni doesn't remember, and it's certainly possible that Joel may have - at times - inexact notes or memory. > > In questions like this re Dawntreader (I expect more of them to come up) it's all about knowing what left-hand shapes Joni tends to use, what shapes she would probably never use, listening for open strings, watching video of Joni playing them, etc... I think the JoniMitchell.com team of guitarists (primarily Sue, Marian, Howard, Dave, and Mark) are the best suited people on the planet to know these details and assess the "correct" way to play them. > > Hopefully someday they'll get the respect and recognition they deserve. If it weren't for the pricey copyrights, I think they should write their own book! For now, the transcriptions on the website are real good, for free. > >> On 2/8/2014 10:10 AM, Anita G wrote: >> Joni thanks Joel Bernstein for preserving the tunings, which is great, >> but I was SO surprised that there was no mention of Sue, Marian, Mark >> Howard nor your good self, Dave, who have made the songs accessible >> to us minions. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #41 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe