From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #426 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, November 1 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 426 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Jazz Snobs [Laurie Antonioli ] Re: Katy becoming Joni ["Paul Ivice" ] Re: Katy becoming Joni [Gerald P Kent ] Re: Katy becoming Joni ["Paul Ivice" ] Re: Katy becoming Joni [Gerald P Kent ] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1519 [Clint Norwood ] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1519 [Victor ] Graham Nash's "Wild Tales" [Lindsay Moon ] Re: Katy becoming Joni [Vince Lavieri ] Lost Anne's emails! [] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1486 [Clint Norwood ] Re: Foiled again! [Gerald P Kent ] Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 16:54:07 -0700 From: Laurie Antonioli Subject: Jazz Snobs I haven't had time to follow all the recent posts about the "Kate Perry incident" but, no one is snobbier than jazz musicians. It's been interesting to me that many of them have "come clean" about how much Joni has touched them. And, many jazz singers have included Joni's songs on their recordings. Tierney Sutton's latest is an example, though her story is that she didn't even get hip to Joni until about 13 years or so ago. Some of us, like me, started with Joni and then went on to jazz. As you know, I'm making a new record of Joni's music and I tell the story here: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/songs-of-shadow-songs-of-light/x/1830694 And I'm not the least bit snobby about Joni's impact on me. Believe it or not, the "jazz police" have given me a couple tickets already! The biggest point, to me, is that music is not clearly one thing or the other. At least in jazz, all the masters now are gone. Just a handful left. And with that, the young jazz musicians are calling on all their "childhood" influences - jazz singing is such a genre-bending affair anymore that it's hard to even know how to classify the new crop of "jazz singers." I deal with this all the time as I run the Vocal Program at a jazz institution. Back to Joni - her music lends itself to jazz, as she was deeply influenced by jazz music, but, it also transcends and crosses over to people who like pop, folk, rock, country and so on. Her music, depending on "who" is doing it can live in any of these environments and THAT is what makes it like Ellington or Cole Porter. Her songs are like the "Great American Songbook" or "Standards" which were written in the 1930's and 40's. From 1960's on up, Joni carved out a niche that works in many settings and because of that, will live on as some of the most important popular music ever written. Laurie Antonioli ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2013 00:33:01 +0000 From: "Paul Ivice" Subject: Re: Katy becoming Joni One does have to kbow anything about Katy Perry to see the arrogance of het statement. Sent from my Droid Charge on Verizon 4G LTE - ------Original Message------ From: Vince Lavieri To: "Clint Norwood" Cc: "Paul Ivice" ,"joni@smoe.org" Date: Friday, November 1, 2013 8:06:15 PM GMT-0400 Subject: Re: Katy becoming Joni Just wow. People who know little to nothing about Katy Perry are doing incredible psychoanalysis of exactly what she meant from an out of context squib from Huffington Post. You all work for the National Enquirer? Vince Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 1, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Clint Norwood wrote: > > Hooray Paul, > > This is succint and accurate to a "T." Katy said it like it was > easy like switching hairstyles or wardrobes and that is consistent with the > half of our population that doesn't think about it a little deeper. That made > her seem dopey despite whatever she sings or does. One does not have to know > who Katy Perry is (I confess I don't know that much other than the campaigning > for elections (always a bad choice for artists even Babe Ruth was more > intelligent than that) to know that anyone who says something flippantly like > that (and doesn't realize how shallow and insufficient that is) isn't the > smartest HUMAN BEING there is. Joni says things that irk people and maybe > doesn't always express herself in the way, I think that she would even > ultimately want. However, I don't remember her expressing her desire to be > like Jayne Mansfield. > > Peace and Happy Friday > -Clint > > > > > > On Friday, November > 1, 2013 12:58 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > > Gerald wrote: I > believe this gal Katy (of whom I know nothing about -- have > no kids and do not > listen to today's radio) was trashed rather significantly > because she > insinuated she would like to be like Joni. > > > I don't think the problem most of > us had was that Katy Perry said she's > wanted to be Joni Mitchell, but the way > Katy said she would probably become > like Joni as though it were some easy or > natural thing for her to do. > Even if I conceded that pop singers/musicians > like Katy Perry or Taylor Swift > had the chops to write songs with as much > depth as Joni or play their > instruments with such aplomb and creativity, which > I am not prepared to do, > would they have the guts to continue evolving in > their musical choices as they > desire rather than pandering to the appeal of > the masses who buy their CDs by > the millions? > I think not. > So you can defend > the artistry of Katy Perry all you want, but what she said > about Joni was an > insult to Joni and the risks she has taken throughout her > career. > > > Paul > Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 21:48:41 -0400 From: Gerald P Kent Subject: Re: Katy becoming Joni Thanks Vince. Straight on. I've been on this list for close to 10 years enjoying the Joni stuff. Now it is getting almost scary for anyone to challenge any comment from one of the "in-crowd". One lister suggested that I remove myself from the list!! It's almost like a book burning. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 1, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Vince Lavieri wrote: > > Just wow. > > People who know little to nothing about Katy Perry are doing incredible psychoanalysis of exactly what she meant from an out of context squib from Huffington Post. > > You all work for the National Enquirer? > > Vince > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 1, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Clint Norwood wrote: >> >> Hooray Paul, >> >> This is succint and accurate to a "T." Katy said it like it was >> easy like switching hairstyles or wardrobes and that is consistent with the >> half of our population that doesn't think about it a little deeper. That made >> her seem dopey despite whatever she sings or does. One does not have to know >> who Katy Perry is (I confess I don't know that much other than the campaigning >> for elections (always a bad choice for artists even Babe Ruth was more >> intelligent than that) to know that anyone who says something flippantly like >> that (and doesn't realize how shallow and insufficient that is) isn't the >> smartest HUMAN BEING there is. Joni says things that irk people and maybe >> doesn't always express herself in the way, I think that she would even >> ultimately want. However, I don't remember her expressing her desire to be >> like Jayne Mansfield. >> >> Peace and Happy Friday >> -Clint >> >> >> >> >> >> On Friday, November >> 1, 2013 12:58 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: >> >> Gerald wrote: I >> believe this gal Katy (of whom I know nothing about -- have >> no kids and do not >> listen to today's radio) was trashed rather significantly >> because she >> insinuated she would like to be like Joni. >> >> >> I don't think the problem most of >> us had was that Katy Perry said she's >> wanted to be Joni Mitchell, but the way >> Katy said she would probably become >> like Joni as though it were some easy or >> natural thing for her to do. >> Even if I conceded that pop singers/musicians >> like Katy Perry or Taylor Swift >> had the chops to write songs with as much >> depth as Joni or play their >> instruments with such aplomb and creativity, which >> I am not prepared to do, >> would they have the guts to continue evolving in >> their musical choices as they >> desire rather than pandering to the appeal of >> the masses who buy their CDs by >> the millions? >> I think not. >> So you can defend >> the artistry of Katy Perry all you want, but what she said >> about Joni was an >> insult to Joni and the risks she has taken throughout her >> career. >> >> >> Paul >> Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2013 00:32:58 +0000 From: "Paul Ivice" Subject: Re: Katy becoming Joni One does have to kbow anything about Katy Perry to see the arrogance of het statement. Sent from my Droid Charge on Verizon 4G LTE - ------Original Message------ From: Vince Lavieri To: "Clint Norwood" Cc: "Paul Ivice" ,"joni@smoe.org" Date: Friday, November 1, 2013 8:06:15 PM GMT-0400 Subject: Re: Katy becoming Joni Just wow. People who know little to nothing about Katy Perry are doing incredible psychoanalysis of exactly what she meant from an out of context squib from Huffington Post. You all work for the National Enquirer? Vince Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 1, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Clint Norwood wrote: > > Hooray Paul, > > This is succint and accurate to a "T." Katy said it like it was > easy like switching hairstyles or wardrobes and that is consistent with the > half of our population that doesn't think about it a little deeper. That made > her seem dopey despite whatever she sings or does. One does not have to know > who Katy Perry is (I confess I don't know that much other than the campaigning > for elections (always a bad choice for artists even Babe Ruth was more > intelligent than that) to know that anyone who says something flippantly like > that (and doesn't realize how shallow and insufficient that is) isn't the > smartest HUMAN BEING there is. Joni says things that irk people and maybe > doesn't always express herself in the way, I think that she would even > ultimately want. However, I don't remember her expressing her desire to be > like Jayne Mansfield. > > Peace and Happy Friday > -Clint > > > > > > On Friday, November > 1, 2013 12:58 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > > Gerald wrote: I > believe this gal Katy (of whom I know nothing about -- have > no kids and do not > listen to today's radio) was trashed rather significantly > because she > insinuated she would like to be like Joni. > > > I don't think the problem most of > us had was that Katy Perry said she's > wanted to be Joni Mitchell, but the way > Katy said she would probably become > like Joni as though it were some easy or > natural thing for her to do. > Even if I conceded that pop singers/musicians > like Katy Perry or Taylor Swift > had the chops to write songs with as much > depth as Joni or play their > instruments with such aplomb and creativity, which > I am not prepared to do, > would they have the guts to continue evolving in > their musical choices as they > desire rather than pandering to the appeal of > the masses who buy their CDs by > the millions? > I think not. > So you can defend > the artistry of Katy Perry all you want, but what she said > about Joni was an > insult to Joni and the risks she has taken throughout her > career. > > > Paul > Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 21:50:38 -0400 From: Gerald P Kent Subject: Re: Katy becoming Joni The arrogance, I fear, is certainly not coming from this gal Katy. Please read some of the comments being made by the listers. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 1, 2013, at 8:32 PM, "Paul Ivice" wrote: > > One does have to kbow anything about Katy Perry to see the arrogance of het statement. > > Sent from my Droid Charge on Verizon 4G LTE > > ------Original Message------ > From: Vince Lavieri > To: "Clint Norwood" > Cc: "Paul Ivice" ,"joni@smoe.org" > Date: Friday, November 1, 2013 8:06:15 PM GMT-0400 > Subject: Re: Katy becoming Joni > > Just wow. > > People who know little to nothing about Katy Perry are doing incredible psychoanalysis of exactly what she meant from an out of context squib from Huffington Post. > > You all work for the National Enquirer? > > Vince > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 1, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Clint Norwood wrote: >> >> Hooray Paul, >> >> This is succint and accurate to a "T." Katy said it like it was >> easy like switching hairstyles or wardrobes and that is consistent with the >> half of our population that doesn't think about it a little deeper. That made >> her seem dopey despite whatever she sings or does. One does not have to know >> who Katy Perry is (I confess I don't know that much other than the campaigning >> for elections (always a bad choice for artists even Babe Ruth was more >> intelligent than that) to know that anyone who says something flippantly like >> that (and doesn't realize how shallow and insufficient that is) isn't the >> smartest HUMAN BEING there is. Joni says things that irk people and maybe >> doesn't always express herself in the way, I think that she would even >> ultimately want. However, I don't remember her expressing her desire to be >> like Jayne Mansfield. >> >> Peace and Happy Friday >> -Clint >> >> >> >> >> >> On Friday, November >> 1, 2013 12:58 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: >> >> Gerald wrote: I >> believe this gal Katy (of whom I know nothing about -- have >> no kids and do not >> listen to today's radio) was trashed rather significantly >> because she >> insinuated she would like to be like Joni. >> >> >> I don't think the problem most of >> us had was that Katy Perry said she's >> wanted to be Joni Mitchell, but the way >> Katy said she would probably become >> like Joni as though it were some easy or >> natural thing for her to do. >> Even if I conceded that pop singers/musicians >> like Katy Perry or Taylor Swift >> had the chops to write songs with as much >> depth as Joni or play their >> instruments with such aplomb and creativity, which >> I am not prepared to do, >> would they have the guts to continue evolving in >> their musical choices as they >> desire rather than pandering to the appeal of >> the masses who buy their CDs by >> the millions? >> I think not. >> So you can defend >> the artistry of Katy Perry all you want, but what she said >> about Joni was an >> insult to Joni and the risks she has taken throughout her >> career. >> >> >> Paul >> Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 13:08:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1519 Well in the spirit of getting everyone a little happier I must say that, here at 2:30 PM on a Friday afternoon, in my office, I found the title of the email here so absurdly funny that I laughed out loud for a long time... "Music snobs and sluts" I'm sorry you guys, sometimes life is absurd and you just have to laugh at it. - -Clint On Friday, November 1, 2013 2:24 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: JMDL Digest Friday, November 1 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1519 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Pablo Cruise njc [Rob Procyk ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 13:04:20 -0600 From: Rob Procyk Subject: Pablo Cruise njc Lol and I've been singing "Cool Love" since 8:00 this morning! TGIF, Rob Sent from my iPhone On 2013-11-01, at 12:50 PM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) wrote: > > JMDL Digest Friday, November 1 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1517 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: Music snobs and sluts [Clint Norwood ] > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 11:48:14 -0700 (PDT) > From: Clint Norwood > Subject: Re: Music snobs and sluts > > Kakki, > "Love will find a way!" :) > > Thanks for the reminder. > > - -Clint > > > > > > On Friday, November 1, 2013 11:21 AM, Michael Paz wrote: > > Well at least there is some discussion happening... Hope you are well old > friend. I am a wreck. I need some time off. I am not as young a I use to be. > > Love > > Paz > > > > > > > On Nov 1, 2013, at 5:54 AM, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > > No Mikey, but I originally posted the Joni/Katy article. Didn't realize it was > going to create so much activity on the list, but I'm glad it did. > > In a message dated 11/1/2013 2:48:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > michael@thepazgroup.com writes: > >> HAHHAHA. And OMG its been so long since we had a good old fashioned flame > war >> ( and I am not talking about Jimmy and the Cuban ) > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1517 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1519 ****************************** - ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 16:53:18 -0400 From: Victor Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1519 Yes, that's the beauty of life...it is rather absurd when you think about it. Honestly, I've been happy throughout this thread. If people choose to be unhappy then by all means let them. It really comes down to a personal choice. Victor in Atlanta Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 1, 2013,at 4:08 PM, Clint Norwood wrote: > > Well in the spirit of getting everyone a little happier I must say that, here > at 2:30 PM on a Friday afternoon, in my office, I found the title of the email > here so absurdly funny that I laughed out loud for a long time... > > "Music > snobs and sluts" > > I'm sorry you guys, sometimes life is absurd and you just > have to laugh at it. > -Clint > > > > > > On Friday, November 1, 2013 2:24 PM, JMDL > Digest wrote: > > > JMDL Digest Friday, > November 1 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1519 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and > authors in this Digest: > -------- > Pablo Cruise njc > [Rob Procyk ] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: > Fri, 1 Nov 2013 13:04:20 -0600 > From: Rob Procyk > Subject: > Pablo Cruise njc > > Lol and I've been singing "Cool Love" since 8:00 this > morning! > > TGIF, > Rob > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2013-11-01, at 12:50 PM, > owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) wrote: > >> >> JMDL Digest > Friday, November 1 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1517 >> >> >> >> ========== >> >> TOPICS and authors in this Digest: >> -------- >> Re: Music snobs and > sluts [Clint Norwood ] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 11:48:14 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Clint Norwood > >> Subject: Re: Music snobs and sluts >> >> Kakki, >> "Love > will find a way!" :) >> >> Thanks for the reminder. >> >> - -Clint >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Friday, November 1, 2013 11:21 AM, Michael Paz >> wrote: >> >> Well at least there is some discussion happening... Hope you are > well old >> friend. I am a wreck. I need some time off. I am not as young a I > use to be. >> >> Love >> >> Paz >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Nov 1, 2013, at 5:54 AM, >> FMYFL@aol.com wrote: >> >> No Mikey, but I originally posted the Joni/Katy > article. Didn't realize it was >> going to create so much activity on the list, > but I'm glad it did. >> >> In a message dated 11/1/2013 2:48:16 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, >> michael@thepazgroup.com writes: >> >>> HAHHAHA. And OMG its > been so long since we had a good old fashioned flame >> war >>> ( and I am not > talking about Jimmy and the Cuban ) >> >> ------------------------------ > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1517 >> ****************************** >> >> ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. >> Unsubscribe by clicking > here: >> mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe >> ------- > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1519 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, > sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 18:31:20 -0700 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Graham Nash's "Wild Tales" Finished Graham's book last night. I know some were critical of his sort of adolescent bent towards describing naked women everywhere, etc., and I do see your points. But I thought it was very interesting his musical beginnings and who he encountered while singing with The Hollies. Also the slog you often have to go through to get your music across (five shows a day, contrived costumes, akin to vaudeville, etc.) He does seem quite narcissistic which I suppose many artists are. Even after he finally got married and had kids, he was touring, doing photography, a million things  I thought, gee, take some time off and spend it with your kids! Lots of Joni stories and references which are good. (Not all completely flattering). And I will say he never misses an opportunity to say he did a great, in fact brilliant job with something. haha (see narcissistic comment above). I also will say that yes, it was part of the times, but it did seem to me (a non-drinker) ridiculous the excuses he made for getting loaded constantly. Was really defending himself on "expanding his mind" by dropping acid, doing mountains of coke, etc. Several times he says "we were doing way too much cocaine" and in the next sentence he admits to ingesting outrageous quantities  I wonder what his creative output might have been had he laid off the drugs and booze for a period... All in all a very interesting read. He does seem so grateful to have had so many unbelievable experiences and to have been part of such an iconic band. But damn if he too (as did Crosby) bring up those damn holy grail pillow cases they all had on one of their arena tours that were replicas of Joni's drawing of all of them from their hits album "So Far." I will begin scouring e-Bay again Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 20:06:15 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Katy becoming Joni Just wow. People who know little to nothing about Katy Perry are doing incredible psychoanalysis of exactly what she meant from an out of context squib from Huffington Post. You all work for the National Enquirer? Vince Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 1, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Clint Norwood wrote: > > Hooray Paul, > > This is succint and accurate to a "T." Katy said it like it was > easy like switching hairstyles or wardrobes and that is consistent with the > half of our population that doesn't think about it a little deeper. That made > her seem dopey despite whatever she sings or does. One does not have to know > who Katy Perry is (I confess I don't know that much other than the campaigning > for elections (always a bad choice for artists even Babe Ruth was more > intelligent than that) to know that anyone who says something flippantly like > that (and doesn't realize how shallow and insufficient that is) isn't the > smartest HUMAN BEING there is. Joni says things that irk people and maybe > doesn't always express herself in the way, I think that she would even > ultimately want. However, I don't remember her expressing her desire to be > like Jayne Mansfield. > > Peace and Happy Friday > -Clint > > > > > > On Friday, November > 1, 2013 12:58 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > > Gerald wrote: I > believe this gal Katy (of whom I know nothing about -- have > no kids and do not > listen to today's radio) was trashed rather significantly > because she > insinuated she would like to be like Joni. > > > I don't think the problem most of > us had was that Katy Perry said she's > wanted to be Joni Mitchell, but the way > Katy said she would probably become > like Joni as though it were some easy or > natural thing for her to do. > Even if I conceded that pop singers/musicians > like Katy Perry or Taylor Swift > had the chops to write songs with as much > depth as Joni or play their > instruments with such aplomb and creativity, which > I am not prepared to do, > would they have the guts to continue evolving in > their musical choices as they > desire rather than pandering to the appeal of > the masses who buy their CDs by > the millions? > I think not. > So you can defend > the artistry of Katy Perry all you want, but what she said > about Joni was an > insult to Joni and the risks she has taken throughout her > career. > > > Paul > Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 22:41:35 -0400 From: Subject: Lost Anne's emails! Mark: Good catch. Everyone: The digests are far from perfect at this stage and today was an especially bad day. I'm taking the NJC tag off this thread because traffic about the list has always been JC. Anne: your emails from 9:46AM and 10:43AM didn't make it into any of these digests: #1480 (sent at 10:18AM) #1481 (sent at 10:43AM) #1482 (sent 11:59AM) #1483 (1:00PM) #1484 (1:18PM) #1485 (1:18PM) #1486 (1:40PM) #1487 (3:15PM) #1485 (1:18PM)** out of order! #1486 (1:40PM)** out of order! #1487 (3:15PM) #1488 (3:16PM) The only reason I got your emails was because you also cc'd me directly. If anyone seems to be ignoring you, it's not necessarily misogyny. It might be; just not necessarily. :) Jim L. - ---- Mark wrote: > Anne Sandstrom's emails to the list are not showing up in my inbox. I would > like to know why. If anyone has the time to take a break from the present > discussion, I would like to know as I highly value Anne's input. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:13:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1486 Well said Bob. :) Beautiful parody cKarma - -Clint On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 12:50 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 30 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1486 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- re: Pea brains (njc) [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Pea brains (njc) [Arkay Adkisson ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:28:45 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: re: Pea brains (njc) Easy does it CC - if you're not careful you'll be accused of being a vegephobe. Look, I can appreciate what Arkay is saying even if he's a bit over the top with his assessment of me. Misogyny is real, as are all forms of hatred and prejudice. What I really don't like is an atmosphere where you can't criticize anyone outside of your sphere without being labeled. If I criticize a woman I'm a mysogynist. If I criticize a black person I'm a racist. If I criticize a gay person I'm a homophobe. and so on. It's a dangerous and limiting attitude to have in my opinion. If I believe, as I do, that everyone is truly equal than I should be able to express critiques equally across the board, regardless of any and all of these things, and I will continue to do so. Bob NP: Ben Harper & Charlie Musselwhite, "Get Up!" From: c Karma To: "joni@smoe.org" , Date: 10/30/2013 01:05 PM Subject: re: Pea brains (njc) Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org Jimmy wrote:I imagine that 50% of the pea brains in the world are men and 50% are women. If I call someone a pea brain, and she happens to be a woman, that assertion does not automatically make me a misogynist. Yes, I believe that I read that Gregor Mendel had discovered while studying the genetics of peas that their brains were equally divided between the male and female of the species. While calling a female homo sapien a pea brain may not make you misogynist, it could be construed that you have a problem with legumes. CC - - - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - - - ------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:22:32 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell Oh I'm so relieved she said that ... I hate the song Fireworks too!!!! Talk about a screechy earworm! :) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Arkay Adkisson [mailto:piercedcanvas@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 1:18 PM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell My teenage daughter plays the upright bass, which is not traditionally played by women, and she says "I hate the song "Fireworks" but I love the strings in the song". She often listens to the radio/Pandora and says-"oh I want to hear our orchestra play this song", etc...It's nice to have some variety in the arrangements, I like seeing my daughter trying out new songs and thinking about pushing her instrument to play songs that aren't traditional. On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Susan E. McNamara > wrote: I like how this discussion has talked about the influence of Katy on the young kids ... my niece opted to join an after school music program (kind of reminds me of School of Rock) because of her love of Katy. She's learning how to play guitar and bass at the ripe age of 9! I love that!!! I'm all for people setting a high bar for their achievements ... but I've also tried to teach my daughter that having a high bar means working hard and knowing you will hit many rocks in the road. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Arkay Adkisson [mailto:piercedcanvas@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 12:46 PM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell I watched a documentary/concert film about Katy Perry with my teens, and I was impressed with her work ethic and her dedication to her career. I wouldn't call myself a fan-not by definition, but I do appreciate a couple of the songs my kids play often, others are like an ear worm I can't get out of my head unless I use a stronger ear worm ("i would walk 500 miles usually does the trick) Of course, a lot of artists cite Joni as an inspiration-I certainly am not a fan of all of them-but her music does speak to millions of people-all with different styles of their own. Katy Perry is very young, but has been 'in this career' for years and I'm sure her music, lyrics, and style will keep growing and evolving-like Joni Mitchell, sure-but also like any artist that practices her craft for decades. Arkay On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Susan E. McNamara > wrote: I don't see anything wrong with loving Katy Perry ... my niece Piper idolizes her. I make no assumptions that the type of music she makes is not uplifting and enjoyable to millions of people, whatever age they are. It is true too that her genre of music has been very open to many young women who are doing great and making a lot of money. When she says (me paraphrasing) "I want to be like a Joni Mitchell" ... is she saying that she would like to be respected like Joni as an artist and great songwriter who followed her art no matter where it took her ... or is she saying that she wants to take her art wherever it takes her even if that means being ostracized ... Joni's courage was based on a surrender to the gift and where it took her was a risk she was willing to take. I guess time will tell, but I don't fault people for being skeptical ... throwing around Joni's name pretty much puts you in the bull's eye ... are you that gifted? Put your money where your mouth is, I say. I hope Katy Perry succeeds!!!! Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu> - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:40:29 -0500 From: Arkay Adkisson Subject: Re: Pea brains (njc) I am a woman. - - -ARKAY On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 12:28 PM, wrote: > Easy does it CC - if you're not careful you'll be accused of being a > vegephobe. > > Look, I can appreciate what Arkay is saying even if he's a bit over the > top with his assessment of me. Misogyny is real, as are all forms of > hatred and prejudice. > > What I really don't like is an atmosphere where you can't criticize anyone > outside of your sphere without being labeled. > > If I criticize a woman I'm a mysogynist. > If I criticize a black person I'm a racist. > If I criticize a gay person I'm a homophobe. > and so on. > > It's a dangerous and limiting attitude to have in my opinion. If I > believe, as I do, that everyone is truly equal than I should be able to > express critiques equally across the board, regardless of any and all of > these things, and I will continue to do so. > > Bob > > NP: Ben Harper & Charlie Musselwhite, "Get Up!" > > > > > From: c Karma > To: "joni@smoe.org" , > Date: 10/30/2013 01:05 PM > Subject: re: Pea brains (njc) > Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org > > > > Jimmy wrote:I imagine that 50% of the pea brains in the world are men and > 50% are women. > If I call someone a pea brain, and she happens to be a woman, that > assertion > does not automatically make me a misogynist. > > Yes, I believe that I read that Gregor Mendel had discovered while > studying > the genetics of peas that their brains were equally divided between the > male > and female of the species. While calling a female homo sapien a pea brain > may > not make you misogynist, it could be construed that you have a problem > with > legumes. > CC > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > - ------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1486 ****************************** - ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:37:19 -0400 From: Gerald P Kent Subject: Re: Foiled again! I once again (although I guess I didn't really the first time!) rest my case. It is hard to voice your opinion with such incredibly cool people!!!!!!!!! Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 30, 2013, at 11:36 AM, Steve Dulson wrote: > > Hey Bob, just between you and me, I'm really surprised that > Arkay and Gerald tumbled to the plot so fast. When the Inner > Circle agreed that our ultimate goal was to turn the world > against Joni Mitchell and destroy any regard for her music, I > figured it would take us YEARS. It's too bad we didn't trim > all the non-IC people off the list, as I adviocated in '98. > > Wow. We've been outsmarted again. :( > > ^&*(%^%#!! (The Secret Handshake) > > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 04:31:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career I have to say, I really, really hate it when people call other people sheep. >________________________________ > From: Gerald P Kent >To: Sally >Cc: Arkay Adkisson ; Vince Lavieri ; JMDL >Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:57:37 PM >Subject: Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career > > >BAA, BAA, BAA, BAA. Another of the sheep "herd" from!!!!! > >Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 06:37:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Black Joni Halloween '76 I don't really know what to make of that. In Hough's case, she was dressing up as a character she likes from a TV show, who is black. I don't necessarily see that as something she'd need to apologize for but, maybe if I were black, I would. But then, not all black people would likely see it the same way either. In a way, Joni's Art Nouveau character is more racist, because he seems more stereotypical (to me) than Hough's character. And yet, that was 1976 and I don't remember how people would have received it back then (back before the internet, where everything is spread quickly and where everyone's opinion seems to carry the same weight.) If, as a white person, you dress as a black pimp (stereotype), I'd say that's racist but, if you dress as Mr T, maybe not, because Mr T, even if he is a sort of stereotype, is a real person (or maybe a real persona.) I'm kind of uncomfortable even talking about this, and yet, here I am. >________________________________ > From: Cassy >To: Randy Remote >Cc: JMDL >Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 3:54:13 AM >Subject: Re: Black Joni Halloween '76 > > >And for doing a similar thing in 2013, Julianne Hough was forced to >apologize: > >http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20749699,00.html > >Oh how politically correct webve become as a society. > >Cassy > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Randy Remote >Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:25 PM >To: Joni >Subject: Black Joni Halloween '76 > > The Daily Mail > > http://tinyurl.com/ncnjmbm ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #426 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe