From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #424 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, November 1 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 424 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career [Sally ] Re: Katy becoming Joni [Bob Muller ] Re: Music snobs and sluts [Clint Norwood ] Katy becoming Joni [Paul Ivice ] Re: Katy becoming Joni [Clint Norwood ] Re: Newer Music [Michael Paz ] Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Joni mention by Katy Perry ["Mark" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1505 [Janine Sherman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 13:47:07 -0400 From: Sally Subject: Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career Hi Anne, Gerald, Bob, et al Anne that was a concise explanation of my own feelings. I had been working on a reply to his comments but hadn't gotten to it yet. Gerald I'm just really interested and hope that you will offer a further explanation of exactly who you think we are slavishly following. It's a rather skewed assumption. I've been on this list about a year and have spoken to a handful of people off the list. I follow Joni. That's why I'm here. I'm a foolish sheep for Joni and her words...and her music. I can't see anything wrong in that. My musical taste is broad ranging. I bought the new eminem tracks a few days ago. Reason? You can dance to them and I am a fool for the dance floor. Lately I've been listening to this guy I'm nuts about named Joe Firstman. He's incredible and the CD I've been listening to is a really interesting mix of styles. Then, I've been spinning Pink constantly. Anyway, I'm vaguely familiar with Bob who seems well liked here and a kind person. It's a list that allows for discussion of music. It stands to reason that we will each have things we like and do not like. If my interests coincide with Bob's, great. Again, you can name call if you like. My father always told me to "suffer fools gladly." Since it's either that or tell them to go fuck themselves, I'll stick with the suffering. I hope you will reconsider your anger or your lack of reason in some of your assumptions. Peace, Sally Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > On Nov 1, 2013, at 12:20 PM, Anne Sandstrom wrote: > > Honestly, Gerald, I just don't get it. > > If you're trying to be amusing, you're just not doing it. > If you're trying to be annoying - well your posts are starting to get under my skin. And that takes some doing. I heard you the first time. I didn't get your point then. I don't get it now. > As I said before, I like sheep. But I'm rather insulted on behalf of this whole list that you think we have only one collective brain (assuming that's what you're implying.) We don't. > And, for the record, I'm rather fond of Bob. I've met him. In person. Nice guy. Exquisite taste in music. Why you think my positive opinion of someone I actually know makes me a sheep is beyond me. > > So, are you sure you want to be part of this list? I'm asking that sincerely and kindly. If you're not happy here, if you find us intolerable, perhaps it isn't the place for you. You should do what brings you joy, not antagonism. > > lots of love, > Anne > on Oct 31, 2013, Gerald P Kent wrote: > BAA, BAA, BAA, BAA. Another of the sheep "herd" from!!!!! > > Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 11:34:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Katy becoming Joni Well said, Paul - my point EXACTLY. I have no problem with ANY artist saying they would like to be more like Joni. That's great, take your best shot. Easier said than done though. Tori Amos, for example, started out in the pop-metal vein with "Y Kant Tori Read" but decided that was not where she wanted to be and did a 180, putting out the brilliant "Little Earthquakes" and some other great work to boot. It would be very cool to see Katy Perry abandon her canned T&A pop shtick and surprise us with an album of musical and lyrical depth - perhaps with that statement she will honestly pursue that goal. Bob NP: Anoushka Shankar, "Chasing Shadows" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 11:48:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: Music snobs and sluts Kakki, "Love will find a way!" :) Thanks for the reminder. - -Clint On Friday, November 1, 2013 11:21 AM, Michael Paz wrote: Well at least there is some discussion happening... Hope you are well old friend. I am a wreck. I need some time off. I am not as young a I use to be. Love Paz On Nov 1, 2013, at 5:54 AM, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: No Mikey, but I originally posted the Joni/Katy article. Didn't realize it was going to create so much activity on the list, but I'm glad it did. In a message dated 11/1/2013 2:48:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, michael@thepazgroup.com writes: > HAHHAHA. And OMG its been so long since we had a good old fashioned flame war > ( and I am not talking about Jimmy and the Cuban ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 13:48:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Ivice Subject: Katy becoming Joni Gerald wrote: I believe this gal Katy (of whom I know nothing about -- have no kids and do not listen to today's radio) was trashed rather significantly because she insinuated she would like to be like Joni. I don't think the problem most of us had was that Katy Perry said she's wanted to be Joni Mitchell, but the way Katy said she would probably become like Joni as though it were some easy or natural thing for her to do. Even if I conceded that pop singers/musicians like Katy Perry or Taylor Swift had the chops to write songs with as much depth as Joni or play their instruments with such aplomb and creativity, which I am not prepared to do, would they have the guts to continue evolving in their musical choices as they desire rather than pandering to the appeal of the masses who buy their CDs by the millions? I think not. So you can defend the artistry of Katy Perry all you want, but what she said about Joni was an insult to Joni and the risks she has taken throughout her career. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 11:58:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: Katy becoming Joni Hooray Paul, This is succint and accurate to a "T." Katy said it like it was easy like switching hairstyles or wardrobes and that is consistent with the half of our population that doesn't think about it a little deeper. That made her seem dopey despite whatever she sings or does. One does not have to know who Katy Perry is (I confess I don't know that much other than the campaigning for elections (always a bad choice for artists even Babe Ruth was more intelligent than that) to know that anyone who says something flippantly like that (and doesn't realize how shallow and insufficient that is) isn't the smartest HUMAN BEING there is. Joni says things that irk people and maybe doesn't always express herself in the way, I think that she would even ultimately want. However, I don't remember her expressing her desire to be like Jayne Mansfield. Peace and Happy Friday - -Clint On Friday, November 1, 2013 12:58 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: Gerald wrote: I believe this gal Katy (of whom I know nothing about -- have no kids and do not listen to today's radio) was trashed rather significantly because she insinuated she would like to be like Joni. I don't think the problem most of us had was that Katy Perry said she's wanted to be Joni Mitchell, but the way Katy said she would probably become like Joni as though it were some easy or natural thing for her to do. Even if I conceded that pop singers/musicians like Katy Perry or Taylor Swift had the chops to write songs with as much depth as Joni or play their instruments with such aplomb and creativity, which I am not prepared to do, would they have the guts to continue evolving in their musical choices as they desire rather than pandering to the appeal of the masses who buy their CDs by the millions? I think not. So you can defend the artistry of Katy Perry all you want, but what she said about Joni was an insult to Joni and the risks she has taken throughout her career. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 11:19:51 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Newer Music Hey Bob I have Robert Glasper coming to The Civic Theater on the 7th which I right after Coheed and Cambria, Balance and Composure, and I The Mighty on the 5th. Then Laura Martling and Jesse Mann on the 9th. No rest for the wicked. We loaded out Galactic last night at 3am in that crazy rain storm after a wild halloween show. They rocked it and their new singer Maggie was really good. Paz On Nov 1, 2013, at 8:10 AM, Bob Muller wrote: Cassy, This week has been affine week for new music. Of course, the new Arcade Fire, but thanks to Happy Craig I am currently digging new release from Devil Makes Three/Anoushka Shankar (yes, from that family - sitar music with Norah sitting in/Robert Glasper/Russian Circles. A very diverse group of sounds if you check them out. PS: Yahoo did an upgrade and now I don't see how to amend the Subject Line to include to NJC. Sorry Joni-onlies, shan't happen again (intentionally, that is). Bob NP: Devil Makes Three, "Forty Days" On Friday, November 1, 2013 5:01 AM, Cassy wrote: I love Joni Mitchell but b Gasp! - I donbt love all of her music. I really didnbt ever bgetb her latest effort bShineb though some of the tunes are OK. I try to keep up with newer artists but find myself reaching for my old favorites more often than not. For a long time I was really stuck in the mud musically then in the 1990s along came a new generation of fine musicians: Lenny Kravitz, Jaco Pierce, Dave Matthews, Natalie Merchant, Ian Moore, Willy Porter, Tool, Goo Goo Dolls and others I really like. All of a sudden I wasnbt stuck in a time warp, I opened myself up to really listening to newer music. Then I got stuck again until the 2000s along came Snow Patrol, Coldplay, Five For Fighting, A Perfect Circle, India.Arie, Imogen Heap, Chevelle (I love Vitamin R and Closure), Lil Wayne (Mr. Carter) and another whole set of music that made me realize that every generation has itbs brilliance here and there, one just has to be open to it and pay attention. I do like some newer music. I am very much a fan of Orianthi, I find her to be talented and quite entertaining; her 2011 EP bFireb is excellent and she seems to just get better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RUB-cPRuoA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kMXxDkqD6I The jury is still out for now on Avicii who seems to mix up acoustic guitar and electronica. He is one of the bHot 100b right now with a tune called bWake Me Up.b Itbs catchy though a bit repetitive and I will continue to pay attention to his journey. The video of Wake Me Up is somewhat intriguing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcrbM1l_BoI I am still on the lookout for todaybs diamonds in the rough. I think Miley Cyrus has potential, she has a good voice and perhaps as she matures shebll come around as a songwriter. One can only hope she learns to keep her tongue in her mouth. Fleet Foxes caught my ear immediately I heard them, they are from Seattle and were popular on the local circuit before getting National attention around 2008 (do 5 yr. old bands count as bnew music?b) Who have you heard lately that caught your attention musically? Warmly, Cassy (keeping her asbestos knickers handy) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 16:20:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career Honestly, Gerald, I just don't get it. If you're trying to be amusing, you're just not doing it.If you're trying to be annoying - well your posts are starting to get under my skin. And that takes some doing. I heard you the first time. I didn't get your point then. I don't get it now.As I said before, I like sheep. But I'm rather insulted on behalf of this whole list that you think we have only one collective brain (assuming that's what you're implying.) We don't.And, for the record, I'm rather fond of Bob. I've met him. In person. Nice guy. Exquisite taste in music. Why you think my positive opinion of someone I actually know makes me a sheep is beyond me. So, are you sure you want to be part of this list? I'm asking that sincerely and kindly. If you're not happy here, if you find us intolerable, perhaps it isn't the place for you. You should do what brings you joy, not antagonism. lots of love,Anneon Oct 31, 2013, Gerald P Kent wrote: BAA, BAA, BAA, BAA. Another of the sheep "herd" from!!!!! Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 23:19:21 -0400 From: Sally Subject: Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career Well well well...if Bob's a sheep, fleece me with Bob's flock. I'm not getting the heavy duty angst out of what he said or meant and I'm going to repost my original post below. For some reason it never made it to the list. It was addressed to Gerald's initial post quoted below my response. Gak we need diagrams...just keep reading, you'll get it. Hello Gerald, I'm confused. You seem to be saying that if you are "more informed", you are "less infatuated". Actually...I'm not being a smartass here but I am totally infatuated with Joni Mitchell and her amazing artistry and I do consider myself informed. As for this dispute that's broken out here, I think people like the music that they like and they don't like the music that they don't like. If you're a fan of music, if you wake to it, let it put you to sleep at night, dream it, feel it, make love to it...if you are a freaking slave to the rhythm...then you're wide open to anything that moves you. It can be Bach, Joni, Miles Davis, Katy Perry, Eminem...whatever! Isn't it about doing something well? Isn't it? And isn't that why we all come together here? Our admiration for an astounding musical genius? There's room for anybody that moves us. If we close doors, crap...we miss so much beautiful sound. My two cents. I don't take it personally...what Bob had to say. He just doesn't like something. "Pea brain" was the first thing he thought of! Amusingly descriptive. ;) Katy Perry is young. I hope she hangs in there and makes some songs that blow everyone away. We could use more of that all the time. PeaceLove, Sally Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > On Oct 30, 2013, at 12:30 AM, Gerald P Kent wrote: > > Well said David. The listers go far in turning the less infatuated, more informed persons away from the incredible music of Joni Mitchell. It is very sad how they are destroying her legacy to the new generations. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 30, 2013, at 12:14 AM, David Marine wrote: >> >> Dear List, >> >> I do enjoy posting here, but these missives will have to evolve over time. I'll probably turn into more of a James Joyce or a Shakespeare as I get older... >> >> Best, >> >> David Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > On Oct 31, 2013, at 10:57 PM, Gerald P Kent wrote: > > BAA, BAA, BAA, BAA. Another of the sheep "herd" from!!!!! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 30, 2013, at 1:10 AM, Sally wrote: >> >> I'm female...I'm not feeling marginalized. In saying what he said, Bob was speaking as a huge fan of a different woman. minor feeling the angst. >> Bob...want me to "slap you with the splintered ruler"? ;) >> >> >> >>> On Oct 30, 2013, at 1:04 AM, "Arkay Adkisson" wrote: >>> >>> You are infinitely more patient and well-spoke than I.B >>> >>> >>> >>> I get angry not because I may or may not support Katy Perry's music, but >>> because referring to her in such a derogatory and dismissive way, does in >>> fact, continue the societal-wide marginalization of women. B >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Perhaps this result is indeed SO contrary to the true intention, that this >>> becomes a moment of learning, thus un-learning, and a little growth >>> happens.B >>> >>> >>> >>> Perhaps.B >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> b >>> Sent from Mailbox for iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vince Lavieri >>> > wrote: >>> What follows below is the wording of NPR. I am not a Katy Perry fan but I >>> >>> found the interview informative in that my perceptions were altered as to her >>> >>> depth. Not that she has to answer to me. The fact that Scott Simon did a >>> >>> piece on her says something profound about her. And I wish the Huffington >>> >>> Post article had had more content on Perry's Joni comment. >>> >>> >>> What I know is this, that as a whole with some obvious exceptions the JMDL >>> >>> tends to trash on all younger female pop singers. An Erica Badu will get >>> some >>> >>> respect but mention Taylor Swift and the knives come out. A blues-y jazzy >>> Amy >>> >>> Winehouse gets love but a woman who sings in the pop category gets put down >>> >>> and castigated. And if a young female pop singer speaks of her respect for >>> >>> Joni, the hate fest erupts. As it did when Taylor Swift was connected to >>> >>> Joni, spoke well of her. The condescending comments were so numerous. >>> >>> >>> Young male pop singers also get dissed but the venom is stronger on the >>> >>> females. >>> >>> >>> I have said before and I will repeat, that too many (and one is too many) >>> have >>> >>> forgotten two things: 1. hope I did before I get old and 2. Mothers, fathers >>> >>> through out the land, don't criticize what you don't understand. >>> >>> >>> When I think of how my generation was in the late 60s and early 70s, with >>> >>> hair, clothes or lack thereof, sexual liberation, drugs, and all kinds of >>> >>> posing and self aggrandizement, a Katy Perry, Lorde, Miley Cyrus, Gaga, >>> >>> Kei$ha, are what they are: us reflected back at ourselves. They are us, >>> >>> current generation to our faded generation that mocks the way our parents >>> >>> mocked our music. The quip (which I suspect was said in humor, not to hurt) >>> >>> about blue hair would never be made about Cindi Lauper but then she is in her >>> >>> 40s or 50s. Katy Perry's hair has always been black to my knowledge but >>> maybe >>> >>> I missed a color change. Prism is a powerful album, Roar to me is over done >>> >>> but so is all Led Zepplin. Not like she invented the arena sound. Teenage >>> >>> Dream was one of the great albums of this decade. One can respect what we do >>> >>> not like, understand what is not our genre, and realize that sometimes the >>> >>> snark comes on so strong it invites the charge of misogyny and reflects >>> poorly >>> >>> on the elders who are pissed off by the music of the young, which of course >>> >>> the young should be doing, and that female pop singers do not diminish Joni >>> by >>> >>> the fact of their talent and success. >>> >>> >>> Vince who wishes people listened to what Miley sang when she twerked Robin >>> and >>> >>> remembered that group sex in public was a fun fashion for people now in their >>> >>> 50s and 60s who are shocked, shocked that someone would act out why don't we >>> >>> do it in the road. And is in agreement with those who have been troubled by >>> >>> the Katy Perry comments today. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I found the following story on the NPR iPhone App: >>> >>> >>> Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career >>> >>> by NPR Staff >>> >>> >>> NPR - October 26, 2013 >>> >>> >>> Katy Perry is among the world's biggest pop artists, but her fans know her >>> >>> current career is actually a second take. She first tried her hand in the >>> >>> music world as a teenager, making Christian music as Katy Hudson. She >>> released >>> >>> an album in 2001, which failed to break through.... >>> >>> >>> http://www.npr.org/2013/10/26/240760441/katy-perry-returns-with-a-roar?sc=17& >>> >>> f=7 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 18:13:37 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Joni mention by Katy Perry This one came through! Thanks, Anne. I hated thinking you were posting emails to the list that I wasn't seeing at all Mark in Seattle just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round... - -----Original Message----- From: Anne Sandstrom Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:09 PM To: gpkm6208@comcast.net Cc: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com ; beatntrack@att.net ; FMYFL@aol.com ; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni mention by Katy Perry Well, I think that Katy Perry is a better songwriter than many give her credit for. Althought the lyrics aren't great, the melody to "Firework" is pretty darn good if you ask me. And her song "Wide Awake" is great IMHO.Yeah, she's got the bubble gum/blue hair schtick going on. Maybe she meant she'd give up on that whole facade? Who knows? The fact that she even knows who Joni is is rather impressive. Kind of reminds me of Taylor Swift inviting Shawn Colvin on stage to sing "Sonny Came Home" together. The contrast was striking. Gravitas vs. fluff. I'll let you guess which was which. Makes me wonder "if you like that music so much, how on earth do you come up with your stuff?" Puzzling. lots of love,Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 10:10:06 -0400 From: Janine Sherman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1505 Sent from my iPhone On Nov 1, 2013, at 9:31 AM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) wrote: > > JMDL Digest Friday, November 1 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1505 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: Newer Music njc [Catherine McKay ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 06:29:21 -0700 (PDT) > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: Newer Music njc > > I hate what yahoo has done. I had a lot of problems when they first switched me over to the "new" version and, in particular, the "conversations" thing they are defaulting to. I was able to update the subject line responding to your email and am not sure whether or not it's related to the "conversations" thing, but I'd bet it is. You may need to go into settings (the gear-looking thing, top right), then "viewing emails" and make sure to untick (untick?) the box called "enable conversations" and then you will get something like what yahoo mail used to look like and you should be able to amend subject lines. > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: Bob Muller >> To: Cassy ; JMDL >> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 9:10:15 AM >> Subject: Re: Newer Music >> >> >> >> PS: Yahoo did an upgrade and now I don't see >> how to amend the Subject Line to include to NJC. Sorry Joni-onlies, shan't >> happen again (intentionally, that is). > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1505 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #424 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe