From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #419 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, October 30 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 419 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni on Cover of UNCUT Magazine [Les Irvin ] Re: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell [Arkay Adkisson ] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1477 [Clint Norwood ] Re: No Apologies [Victor ] Re: The Katy Perry thing [Clint Norwood ] Re: The Katy Perry thing [Arkay Adkisson ] Re: Joni mention by Katy Perry [Gerald Kent ] Re: This Katy Perry/Joni thing [Victor ] Re: The Katy Perry thing [Victor ] RE: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell ["Susan E. McNamara" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 10:21:06 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Joni on Cover of UNCUT Magazine Upon first glance, this interview appears to be an edited version of the televised Jian Ghomeshi interview from this summer. On 10/29/2013 7:45 PM, est86mlm@ameritech.net wrote: > Uncut's page here posted 'some' info on what's included on the CD > under the heading IN THIS ISSUE. But no song titles. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 11:45:48 -0500 From: Arkay Adkisson Subject: Re: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell I watched a documentary/concert film about Katy Perry with my teens, and I was impressed with her work ethic and her dedication to her career. I wouldn't call myself a fan-not by definition, but I do appreciate a couple of the songs my kids play often, others are like an ear worm I can't get out of my head unless I use a stronger ear worm ("i would walk 500 miles usually does the trick) Of course, a lot of artists cite Joni as an inspiration-I certainly am not a fan of all of them-but her music does speak to millions of people-all with different styles of their own. Katy Perry is very young, but has been 'in this career' for years and I'm sure her music, lyrics, and style will keep growing and evolving-like Joni Mitchell, sure-but also like any artist that practices her craft for decades. Arkay On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Susan E. McNamara wrote: > I don't see anything wrong with loving Katy Perry ... my niece Piper > idolizes > her. I make no assumptions that the type of music she makes is not > uplifting > and enjoyable to millions of people, whatever age they are. It is true too > that her genre of music has been very open to many young women who are > doing > great and making a lot of money. When she says (me paraphrasing) "I want > to > be like a Joni Mitchell" ... is she saying that she would like to be > respected > like Joni as an artist and great songwriter who followed her art no matter > where it took her ... or is she saying that she wants to take her art > wherever > it takes her even if that means being ostracized ... Joni's courage was > based > on a surrender to the gift and where it took her was a risk she was > willing to > take. I guess time will tell, but I don't fault people for being > skeptical > ... throwing around Joni's name pretty much puts you in the bull's eye ... > are > you that gifted? Put your money where your mouth is, I say. I hope Katy > Perry > succeeds!!!! > > Susan Tierney McNamara > email: sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:18:12 -0500 From: Arkay Adkisson Subject: Re: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell My teenage daughter plays the upright bass, which is not traditionally played by women, and she says "I hate the song "Fireworks" but I love the strings in the song". She often listens to the radio/Pandora and says-"oh I want to hear our orchestra play this song", etc...It's nice to have some variety in the arrangements, I like seeing my daughter trying out new songs and thinking about pushing her instrument to play songs that aren't traditional. On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Susan E. McNamara wrote: > I like how this discussion has talked about the influence of Katy on the > young kids  my niece opted to join an after school music program (kind of > reminds me of School of Rock) because of her love of Katy. Shes learning > how to play guitar and bass at the ripe age of 9! I love that!!! Im all > for people setting a high bar for their achievements  but Ive also tried > to teach my daughter that having a high bar means working hard and knowing > you will hit many rocks in the road. **** > > ** ** > > Susan Tierney McNamara**** > > email: sem8@cornell.edu**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Arkay Adkisson [mailto:piercedcanvas@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 30, 2013 12:46 PM > *To:* Susan E. McNamara > *Cc:* joni@smoe.org > *Subject:* Re: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell**** > > ** ** > > I watched a documentary/concert film about Katy Perry with my teens, and I > was impressed with her work ethic and her dedication to her career. I > wouldn't call myself a fan-not by definition, but I do appreciate a couple > of the songs my kids play often, others are like an ear worm I can't get > out of my head unless I use a stronger ear worm ("i would walk 500 miles > usually does the trick) Of course, a lot of artists cite Joni as an > inspiration-I certainly am not a fan of all of them-but her music does > speak to millions of people-all with different styles of their own.**** > > Katy Perry is very young, but has been 'in this career' for years and I'm > sure her music, lyrics, and style will keep growing and evolving-like Joni > Mitchell, sure-but also like any artist that practices her craft for > decades.**** > > ** ** > > Arkay**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Susan E. McNamara > wrote:**** > > I don't see anything wrong with loving Katy Perry ... my niece Piper > idolizes > her. I make no assumptions that the type of music she makes is not > uplifting > and enjoyable to millions of people, whatever age they are. It is true too > that her genre of music has been very open to many young women who are > doing > great and making a lot of money. When she says (me paraphrasing) "I want > to > be like a Joni Mitchell" ... is she saying that she would like to be > respected > like Joni as an artist and great songwriter who followed her art no matter > where it took her ... or is she saying that she wants to take her art > wherever > it takes her even if that means being ostracized ... Joni's courage was > based > on a surrender to the gift and where it took her was a risk she was > willing to > take. I guess time will tell, but I don't fault people for being > skeptical > ... throwing around Joni's name pretty much puts you in the bull's eye ... > are > you that gifted? Put your money where your mouth is, I say. I hope Katy > Perry > succeeds!!!! > > Susan Tierney McNamara > email: sem8@cornell.edu**** > > ** ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:22:27 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell I don't see anything wrong with loving Katy Perry ... my niece Piper idolizes her. I make no assumptions that the type of music she makes is not uplifting and enjoyable to millions of people, whatever age they are. It is true too that her genre of music has been very open to many young women who are doing great and making a lot of money. When she says (me paraphrasing) "I want to be like a Joni Mitchell" ... is she saying that she would like to be respected like Joni as an artist and great songwriter who followed her art no matter where it took her ... or is she saying that she wants to take her art wherever it takes her even if that means being ostracized ... Joni's courage was based on a surrender to the gift and where it took her was a risk she was willing to take. I guess time will tell, but I don't fault people for being skeptical ... throwing around Joni's name pretty much puts you in the bull's eye ... are you that gifted? Put your money where your mouth is, I say. I hope Katy Perry succeeds!!!! Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:56:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1477 Coyote Rick, I think that you make a great point about current "rock" and pop acts. I too don't like a lot of things that I hear now because it seems so manufactured and full of wall to wall synthesizers. I can dance to a Katy Perry song if it is a happy time but I won't think about it after because it does not have depth. Kids like that stuff nowadays because IT IS MARKETED TO THEM NON-STOP. Think about that for a second. If kids heard all kinds of music some would still like Katy, but not everyone. It's almost like that is what they are SUPPOSED to like. They don't really have a choice unless they have music listening parents. But you hit on a couple of things that I think we can say applies to music that is less than inspiring. That was your mention of the corporate "business" of music as opposed to what it was like in 1969. Around the eighties when the music "business" became a serious crush for corporate execs and music video was the rage the level of quality went down because the integrity of the art wasn't there. So many "acts" are just stars to me. Neil Peart said it best, "All this machinery making modern music can still be openhearted. Not so fully charted it's really just a question of your honesty." Can we really believe Christina Aguilera's honesty compared to someone like Patsy Cline or Joni Mitchell? Subjectively I say no. - -Clint On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 1:09 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 30 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1477 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Re: Joni mention by Katy Perry [Rick Hobbs-Seeley ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 00:57:26 -0500 From: Rick Hobbs-Seeley Subject: Re: Joni mention by Katy Perry Gerald, Vince, Victor and Bob, I've been reading, albeit off and on, this discussion group for 14 years. I've learned more from the folks on this group about music than I could ever learn in any music appreciation class. More about the music and influence of Miss Joni Mitchell than I knew in all the years - pre Internet - when I admired her talent assumably alone. Smart, articulate people. Some of whom have sacrificed their time from friends and family to educate the rest of us on others that also find her music inspiring, others who discover her tunings, others who plan gatherings to share our common, sometimes fanatic, romanticism. Some of whom, I've grown to love as friends. Okay, that's what I must say. Now for the confessional. As I age, I find it more and more difficult to connect with the popular artists of today. I'm not an expert on the music scene of today, but, it seems to me that things have changed. Today's artists are clearly talented in one way or the other, it just seems less home grown than what we learned to love in days past. Maybe more manufactured and subjected to focus groups. What I do know is we have to change with the times. We must focus our musical interests to those that turn us on. Be it "throw back" singer songwriters we find on PBS radio or local artists we find in open mike nights and concerts. Some of us understand the music industry of today and can appreciate the breakthrough some artists make due to their vocal, musicianship fortitude or songwriting skills. Some of us can't. No harm, no foul. It's all about taste. I do think we, as a group, need to respect the opinions of others on both sides of the artistic equation. However, we need to refrain from challenging one another on our opinions. Just state them and let go if you feel so compelled . Some readers and writers did just that on the Perry discussion. I must also say we must refrain from sniping the talent or lack thereof of current artists who our younger readers may hold in high esteem. A larger part of our mission here is to educate and involve our "youngers" on the music of Joni Mitchell to keep her music alive for the generation(s) to come. We don't fulfill that mission without acceptance and appreciation. While I have no regrets. I sign off as your friend, CoyoteRick Sent from my iPhone On Oct 29, 2013, at 8:31 PM, Gerald P Kent wrote: Another one of my few responses to the discussion group. As a long time member and one who really appreciates much of Joni's music I once again find it quite appalling at how condescending many of you are. I find it very complimentary to joni that a young person would recognize her and acknowledge her longitivity. Really appalling comments. How disappointing that this group had evolved into this. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 29, 2013, at 4:05 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > Well, she could release an album all about her hair and call it BLUE. > > Bob > > NP: Arcade Fire, "Flashbulb Eyes" > > > > > From: Dave Blackburn > To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com, > Cc: Jimmy Stewart , JMDL JMDL > Date: 10/29/2013 03:54 PM > Subject: Re: Joni mention by Katy Perry > > > > Maybe she meant crabbier and more reclusive. > >> On Oct 29, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >> >> That silly quote is about a month old...I laughed when I read it..."I'll > >> probably turn into more of a Joni Mitchell as I get older", which in her > >> pea-brain means she will play the acoustic guitar. As for me, I'm ready > to >> turn into George Clooney. >> >> Bob > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > - ------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1477 ****************************** - ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:17:58 -0400 From: Victor Subject: Re: No Apologies Amen...!!! "Laughing it all away"- Joni Mitchell Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 30, 2013, at 11:40 AM, c Karma wrote: > > Arkay wrote:"The constant barrage [of mysogynist sentiment] is not a > reference to the JMDL list, but to society > and the media as a whole.""...then do what you need to in order to let go of > that behaviour and be a > better man. Be the kind of man that learns, and unlearns, the kind that > says I'm sorry and MEANS it." > I don't believe that any single individual on this list should be placed in > the position of apologizing to assuage indignation caused by society and the > media as a whole. > CC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 09:47:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: The Katy Perry thing Once again this happens when we take ourselves (and how we feel everyone else should be) too seriously. On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:37 AM, Victor wrote: ///This is an opportunity to learn. What you do with it, is up to you. I'm calling you out on this shit. You can choose to defend your words, or you can choose to sit back and think outside your box-and maybe understand why/// Why don't you follow your own advice? I see you making all kinds of judgements about someone you've never even met in person, all of it based on one joke, that was misunderstood (which you have yet to acknowledge), which could have easily been about a man or a women - last time I checked pea-brain can refer to anyone, male or female. I see there is a lot of anger, which in this case is unjustified. It's easy to sit and type away, venting on people in this cyber world, without any consequences. Answer me this, if you met Bob face to face, would you say all these things you just typed? One of the things I learned from my guru, Ma Jaya (Arlo Guthrie was/is also a devoted follower) was over and above all other things, it is important to be kind, and not to judge other people...even when that is difficult. Especially when that is difficult. Victor in Atlanta ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 09:42:59 -0500 From: Arkay Adkisson Subject: Re: The Katy Perry thing 1. "Good people" do and say "stupid, hurtful shit" all the time. 2. "That would be a stupid thing to think. As stupid as, I don't know, marrying Russell Brand and thinking it would work out." And, there you go, proving my initial point again. This whole thing reminds me of times when I hear a person say something insidiously racist-I point it out, then it's a bunch of "but I'm a good person, some of my best friends are black, I can't be racist, I was just listening to Marvin Gaye." Blah blah blah Bullshit. When you take a successful woman-and you dismiss her as a "pea-brain" that is you participating in the institutionalized marginalization of women. Maybe other women that speak up on this list don't feel that way. Sure.* I feel it though*. But then it's easy to dismiss me as 'too sensitive, too young, too much of a Katy Perry fan (which is not the point, and truthfully I would not even classify myself as-I hear her music often as I have teenage daughters-but that isn't even the point is it?) Then, because you just can't help but make another dig-you poke at her again, making fun of her failed marriage. Would you say these things to Katy Perry's face? This is an opportunity to learn. What you do with it, is up to you. I'm calling you out on this shit. You can choose to defend your words, or you can choose to sit back and think outside your box-and maybe understand why I am upset. Why a lot of women, who deal with sexist bullshit day after day, would be and are completely upset at your dismissive and callous words. And then-you have the nerve to say-"well I don't think Joni Mitchell would like Katy Perry's music" so you use THAT as permission to say shit? *This is not about Katy Perry's music*. This is not about what sort of artist Joni Mitchell would defend or like. This is about saying offensive things, and being called out on it. You say you are not a misogynist. Sure. But the truth is, you said a few things that were indeed misogynist-so the onus is on you-own that shit, then do what you need to in order to let go of that behaviour and be a better man. Be the kind of man that learns, and unlearns, the kind that says I'm sorry and MEANS it. Arkay. On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 7:39 AM, wrote: > Well...good morning everyone! > > I have been absent from the list most of the month, travelling all over > the country, from the Gulf Stream Waters to the Redwood forests > (literally) and then to Raleigh NC for a week, too busy to respond to > emails. Glad my little comment stirred things up. > > Anyway - let me just clarify a few things: > > 1. I'm good at several things; my job, being a Dad, tennis and others. I > really suck at other things; golf, cooking, and especially misogyny. Not > that that's something I WANT to be good at. Thanks Shari for pointing that > out, even though we've never met. > > 2. I have no problem with Katy Perry's music - "I Kissed A Girl" was a > brilliant pop song, she hasn't followed that with anything that has > impressed me, but I can appreciate what she does in the context of making > pop music. When I am hanging out with my next-door neighbors and we have a > spontaneous dance party with their 6 and 3-year old kids, we turn on "Katy > Perry Radio" on Pandora. Her music is fun, boppy, bouncy, danceable stuff. > What I DO have a problem with is hearing someone say, "I'll probably turn > into a Joni Mitchell", which reminded me of Canada's program to 'make van > Goghs" that Joni railed against for good reason. I'm not going to sit down > and do a "paint-by-numbers" work and imagine that I'll probably turn into > Picasso. That would be a stupid thing to think. As stupid as, I don't > know, marrying Russell Brand and thinking it would work out. > > 3. I was a fan of Hole but didn't have Celebrity Skin until Rob > recommended it. It's hands-down my favorite Hole album. As for new music, > that's basically ALL I listen to. Go back to my original post and you'll > see that I was spinning the new Arcade Fire record. It came out YESTERDAY. > And bonus that Hole has a Joni cover to their credit. > > 4. I don't believe that Joni would be supportive in any way of Katy > Perry's work. > > From a 2002 interview: > > Mitchell herself refuses to do anything to try to become more salable. > b What would I do?b she says, laughing. b Show my t*ts? Grab my crotch? > Get > hair extensions and a choreographer? Itb s not my world.b One of the most > constantly evolving of contemporary recording artists, she has never fit > into any one category, going from folk to rock to jazz and making forays > into world music and classical, all while firmly turning her back on the > mainstream. > > Thanks for the discussion, always. > > Bob > > NP: Ben Folds Five, "One Chord Blues" > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 10:17:17 -0400 From: Gerald Kent Subject: Re: Joni mention by Katy Perry Very nice post Rick. I like the way you framed the issue. Sent from my iPad > On Oct 30, 2013, at 1:57 AM, Rick Hobbs-Seeley wrote: > > Gerald, Vince, Victor and Bob, I've been reading, albeit off and on, this discussion group for 14 years. I've learned more from the folks on this group about music than I could ever learn in any music appreciation class. More about the music and influence of Miss Joni Mitchell than I knew in all the years - pre Internet - when I admired her talent assumably alone. > > Smart, articulate people. Some of whom have sacrificed their time from friends and family to educate the rest of us on others that also find her music inspiring, others who discover her tunings, others who plan gatherings to share our common, sometimes fanatic, romanticism. Some of whom, I've grown to love as friends. > > Okay, that's what I must say. > > Now for the confessional. As I age, I find it more and more difficult to connect with the popular artists of today. I'm not an expert on the music scene of today, but, it seems to me that things have changed. Today's artists are clearly talented in one way or the other, it just seems less home grown than what we learned to love in days past. Maybe more manufactured and subjected to focus groups. > > What I do know is we have to change with the times. We must focus our musical interests to those that turn us on. Be it "throw back" singer songwriters we find on PBS radio or local artists we find in open mike nights and concerts. > > Some of us understand the music industry of today and can appreciate the breakthrough some artists make due to their vocal, musicianship fortitude or songwriting skills. Some of us can't. No harm, no foul. It's all about taste. > > I do think we, as a group, need to respect the opinions of others on both sides of the artistic equation. However, we need to refrain from challenging one another on our opinions. Just state them and let go if you feel so compelled . Some readers and writers did just that on the Perry discussion. > > I must also say we must refrain from sniping the talent or lack thereof of current artists who our younger readers may hold in high esteem. > > A larger part of our mission here is to educate and involve our "youngers" on the music of Joni Mitchell to keep her music alive for the generation(s) to come. We don't fulfill that mission without acceptance and appreciation. > > While I have no regrets. I sign off as your friend, > > CoyoteRick > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 29, 2013, at 8:31 PM, Gerald P Kent wrote: > > Another one of my few responses to the discussion group. As a long time member and one who really appreciates much of Joni's music I once again find it quite appalling at how condescending many of you are. I find it very complimentary to joni that a young person would recognize her and acknowledge her longitivity. Really appalling comments. How disappointing that this group had evolved into this. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 29, 2013, at 4:05 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >> >> Well, she could release an album all about her hair and call it BLUE. >> >> Bob >> >> NP: Arcade Fire, "Flashbulb Eyes" >> >> >> >> >> From: Dave Blackburn >> To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com, >> Cc: Jimmy Stewart , JMDL JMDL >> Date: 10/29/2013 03:54 PM >> Subject: Re: Joni mention by Katy Perry >> >> >> >> Maybe she meant crabbier and more reclusive. >> >>> On Oct 29, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >>> >>> That silly quote is about a month old...I laughed when I read it..."I'll >> >>> probably turn into more of a Joni Mitchell as I get older", which in her >> >>> pea-brain means she will play the acoustic guitar. As for me, I'm ready >> to >>> turn into George Clooney. >>> >>> Bob >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person >> or entity to which it is addressed and may contain >> proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. >> If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are >> hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, >> distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon >> this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please >> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. >> >> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual >> sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. >> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 06:51:16 -0400 From: Victor Subject: Re: This Katy Perry/Joni thing What Rob said... Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 30, 2013, at 1:48 AM, Rob Procyk wrote: > > I gotta say I am a big fan of Katy Perry - I have pre-teen daughters and have spent more than a little time listening to "their" music, so I too have Miley and Katy and everyone else on my iPods. Anyway, I really like Katy. That being said, I don't think Bob's comment was offensive at all - it was meant as a joke and I don't think it is misogynistic that he basically scoffed that Katy would grow into a Joni Mitchell. Different artists, different talents, and come on - its apples and oranges. About musical snobbery - I've been on this list for 15 years, and I've always had different tastes than most on here. When I die, I will go to Heaven where it's always the early 80s, and new romantics and goths and all the other eyeliner wearing angels will be dancing to The Cure and New Order and Flock of Seagulls, and then we will all shimmy over to another cloud where 80s Industrial angels will be making righteous noise, and then we will wind our nights down with funk and top 40. With! > Stevie Nicks on continual twirl. > Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I don't give a shit what ANYONE thinks of what I like. Hell, I don't care for Dylan, don't get Nyro, nor do I claim to understand the brilliance of many other list favorites. People like what they like, and that's fine with me. If people here are snobby about top 40 artists? Whatever. I think Stevie Nicks is a genius - 98% on the list don't, but it doesn't bother me - to each his/her own. I remember way back when, defending Hole's Celebrity Skin album, and getting frustrated because the list didn't like even the mention of Courtney Love. But does it matter? This is the Joni list, so this isn't your typical list - its special, just like Joni is special. And while I still think Celebrity Skin is amazing, it doesn't matter to me that nobody else does. And when Katy does make this silly Joni reference, I chuckled too, even though I like her and own all her albums. > Long story short: we all come from such different sets of circumstance - which lead to different musical journeys. So, those who are spinning Nyro and Television and Ani and whatever else speaks to, rock on. I'll be here in the basement keeping it real with the synth crowd and Prince and Stevie. But regardless of what we like and don't like, we have Joni in common. Isn't that cool? The last 4 albums played on my iPod are by Arcade Fire, No Doubt, and 2 albums by Skinny Puppy. What are yours? > > Just my rambly 2 cents on a cold Saskatchewan night, > > Rob > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 2013-10-29, at 10:25 PM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) wrote: >> >> >> JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 30 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1468 >> >> >> >> ========== >> >> TOPICS and authors in this Digest: >> -------- >> Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career [Gerald P Kent > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 00:24:29 -0400 >> From: Gerald P Kent >> Subject: Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career >> >> Vince, thank you for your honesty in addressing what I consider the JMDLer's (which I am one of) collective (sorry to many for the generalizing) disrespectful, condescending and somewhat uninformed opinions they/we develop relevant to any of the new persons in popular music. It makes me think of Sonny and Sher and the pop music they developed. Didn't the same promoter (aka David Geffen) develop them along with Laura Nyro (who wrote a number of tunes popularized by the 5th dimension, God forgive their "popness") and others? Thank you for being one of the few "listers" with the courage to challenge the others, the Joni I know would love it!!! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 29, 2013, at 11:01 PM, Vince Lavieri wrote: >>> >>> What follows below is the wording of NPR. I am not a Katy Perry fan but I >>> found the interview informative in that my perceptions were altered as to her >>> depth. Not that she has to answer to me. The fact that Scott Simon did a >>> piece on her says something profound about her. And I wish the Huffington >>> Post article had had more content on Perry's Joni comment. >>> >>> What I know is this, that as a whole with some obvious exceptions the JMDL >>> tends to trash on all younger female pop singers. An Erica Badu will get some >>> respect but mention Taylor Swift and the knives come out. A blues-y jazzy Amy >>> Winehouse gets love but a woman who sings in the pop category gets put down >>> and castigated. And if a young female pop singer speaks of her respect for >>> Joni, the hate fest erupts. As it did when Taylor Swift was connected to >>> Joni, spoke well of her. The condescending comments were so numerous. >>> >>> Young male pop singers also get dissed but the venom is stronger on the >>> females. >>> >>> I have said before and I will repeat, that too many (and one is too many) have >>> forgotten two things: 1. hope I did before I get old and 2. Mothers, fathers >>> through out the land, don't criticize what you don't understand. >>> >>> When I think of how my generation was in the late 60s and early 70s, with >>> hair, clothes or lack thereof, sexual liberation, drugs, and all kinds of >>> posing and self aggrandizement, a Katy Perry, Lorde, Miley Cyrus, Gaga, >>> Kei$ha, are what they are: us reflected back at ourselves. They are us, >>> current generation to our faded generation that mocks the way our parents >>> mocked our music. The quip (which I suspect was said in humor, not to hurt) >>> about blue hair would never be made about Cindi Lauper but then she is in her >>> 40s or 50s. Katy Perry's hair has always been black to my knowledge but maybe >>> I missed a color change. Prism is a powerful album, Roar to me is over done >>> but so is all Led Zepplin. Not like she invented the arena sound. Teenage >>> Dream was one of the great albums of this decade. One can respect what we do >>> not like, understand what is not our genre, and realize that sometimes the >>> snark comes on so strong it invites the charge of misogyny and reflects poorly >>> on the elders who are pissed off by the music of the young, which of course >>> the young should be doing, and that female pop singers do not diminish Joni by >>> the fact of their talent and success. >>> >>> Vince who wishes people listened to what Miley sang when she twerked Robin and >>> remembered that group sex in public was a fun fashion for people now in their >>> 50s and 60s who are shocked, shocked that someone would act out why don't we >>> do it in the road. And is in agreement with those who have been troubled by >>> the Katy Perry comments today. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I found the following story on the NPR iPhone App: >>> >>> Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career >>> by NPR Staff >>> >>> NPR - October 26, 2013 >>> >>> Katy Perry is among the world's biggest pop artists, but her fans know her >>> current career is actually a second take. She first tried her hand in the >>> music world as a teenager, making Christian music as Katy Hudson. She released >>> an album in 2001, which failed to break through.... >>> >>> http://www.npr.org/2013/10/26/240760441/katy-perry-returns-with-a-roar?sc=17& >>> f=7 >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1468 >> ****************************** >> >> ------- >> To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. >> Unsubscribe by clicking here: >> mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe >> ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 11:31:19 -0400 From: Victor Subject: Re: The Katy Perry thing ///This is an opportunity to learn. What you do with it, is up to you. I'm calling you out on this shit. You can choose to defend your words, or you can choose to sit back and think outside your box-and maybe understand why/// Why don't you follow your own advice? I see you making all kinds of judgements about someone you've never even met in person, all of it based on one joke, that was misunderstood (which you have yet to acknowledge), which could have easily been about a man or a women - last time I checked pea-brain can refer to anyone, male or female. I see there is a lot of anger, which in this case is unjustified. It's easy to sit and type away, venting on people in this cyber world, without any consequences. Answer me this, if you met Bob face to face, would you say all these things you just typed? One of the things I learned from my guru, Ma Jaya (Arlo Guthrie was/is also a devoted follower) was over and above all other things, it is important to be kind, and not to judge other people...even when that is difficult. Especially when that is difficult. Victor in Atlanta ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:22:32 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell Oh I'm so relieved she said that ... I hate the song Fireworks too!!!! Talk about a screechy earworm! :) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Arkay Adkisson [mailto:piercedcanvas@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 1:18 PM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell My teenage daughter plays the upright bass, which is not traditionally played by women, and she says "I hate the song "Fireworks" but I love the strings in the song". She often listens to the radio/Pandora and says-"oh I want to hear our orchestra play this song", etc...It's nice to have some variety in the arrangements, I like seeing my daughter trying out new songs and thinking about pushing her instrument to play songs that aren't traditional. On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Susan E. McNamara > wrote: I like how this discussion has talked about the influence of Katy on the young kids ... my niece opted to join an after school music program (kind of reminds me of School of Rock) because of her love of Katy. She's learning how to play guitar and bass at the ripe age of 9! I love that!!! I'm all for people setting a high bar for their achievements ... but I've also tried to teach my daughter that having a high bar means working hard and knowing you will hit many rocks in the road. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Arkay Adkisson [mailto:piercedcanvas@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 12:46 PM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell I watched a documentary/concert film about Katy Perry with my teens, and I was impressed with her work ethic and her dedication to her career. I wouldn't call myself a fan-not by definition, but I do appreciate a couple of the songs my kids play often, others are like an ear worm I can't get out of my head unless I use a stronger ear worm ("i would walk 500 miles usually does the trick) Of course, a lot of artists cite Joni as an inspiration-I certainly am not a fan of all of them-but her music does speak to millions of people-all with different styles of their own. Katy Perry is very young, but has been 'in this career' for years and I'm sure her music, lyrics, and style will keep growing and evolving-like Joni Mitchell, sure-but also like any artist that practices her craft for decades. Arkay On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Susan E. McNamara > wrote: I don't see anything wrong with loving Katy Perry ... my niece Piper idolizes her. I make no assumptions that the type of music she makes is not uplifting and enjoyable to millions of people, whatever age they are. It is true too that her genre of music has been very open to many young women who are doing great and making a lot of money. When she says (me paraphrasing) "I want to be like a Joni Mitchell" ... is she saying that she would like to be respected like Joni as an artist and great songwriter who followed her art no matter where it took her ... or is she saying that she wants to take her art wherever it takes her even if that means being ostracized ... Joni's courage was based on a surrender to the gift and where it took her was a risk she was willing to take. I guess time will tell, but I don't fault people for being skeptical ... throwing around Joni's name pretty much puts you in the bull's eye ... are you that gifted? Put your money where your mouth is, I say. I hope Katy Perry succeeds!!!! Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu> ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #419 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe