From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #401 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, October 18 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 401 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Jaco [kbhla@fastmail.fm] Re: Jaco [Dave Blackburn ] Joni mentions - film [Mary Morris ] Re: Joni and Jaco [Victor ] Re: Jaco [Corey Blake ] Joni and Jaco [fabiococchi@ymail.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1397 [Shari Eaton ] Joni's Help Me on Parenthood tpnight [Joseph Vallee ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 12:36:42 -0700 From: kbhla@fastmail.fm Subject: Jaco Thanks for finding that link to excerpts of the book on Jaco. That sheds a lot of light. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 07:23:22 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Jaco I saw Jaco in 1982 "leading" his own band in San Diego. It was an all-star line-up. Jaco could barely stand he was so hammered and his playing was a shadow of its former self. Muscle memory still served him but it was embarrassing and sad. So his arc from appearing on the national scene in 1976 to his demise was barely six years long. The story I once heard had to do with Wayne and Josef from Weather Report being old school hard drinkers and Jaco getting drawn into partying with them on tour, thus bringing out his inner addict. I doubt that Joni had anything to do with his decline. On Oct 17, 2013, at 6:52 AM, Laurie Antonioli wrote: > My two cents on Jaco: he was mentally ill AND an addict and no one can > MAKE someone become this. I saw him in a very bizarre circumstance toward > the end of his life where I called security on him and then someone told me > it was "Jaco" and so once his identity was established we just let him > wander around backstage at a huge event I was producing. It was very sad. > Heartbreaking. The whole jazz community that was at the event (the > musicians) were all upset to see him like this. It was like seeing Chet > Baker at the end of his life. No one does this to someone, you can not > blame an outside thing for becoming mentally ill or an addict, which he > was, and though there are often contributing factors, I'm quite sure Joni > can not be blamed for his demise. It's ludicrous. Here's some info from > Wikipedia: > > *By 1986, Pastorius' health had further deteriorated. He had been evicted > from his New York apartment and began living on the > streets.[22]In > July 1986, following intervention by his then ex-wife Ingrid with the > help of his brother Gregory, he was admitted to Bellevue > Hospitalin New York, > where he was prescribed > Tegretol in preference to > Lithium > .[21]He > moved back to Fort Lauderdale in December of that year, again living > on > the streets for weeks at a > time.[22] > * > > *After sneaking onstage at a Carlos > Santanaconcert on > September 11, 1987, and being ejected from the premises, > Pastorius made his way to the Midnight Bottle Club in Wilton Manors, > Florida > .[23] After > reportedly kicking in a glass door, having been refused entrance to the > club, he was engaged in a violent confrontation with the club > bouncer, > Luc Havan.[24] Pastorius > was hospitalized for multiple facial fractures and injuries to > his right eye and left arm. He fell into a coma and was put on life > support > .* > > I can not confirm a Widipedia entry, but, I saw this exact same behavior > that night he was at our event. This was in 1983...so he was living like > this for many years before he finally passed and lots of people tried to > help him, but couldn't. Again: heartbreaking and, whomever thought it'd > be cute to blame Joni for this must not know or understand who Jaco was and > the terrible demons that haunted him. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 11:32 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > >> >> JMDL Digest Thursday, October 17 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1397 >> >> >> >> ========== >> >> TOPICS and authors in this Digest: >> -------- >> Re: Columbus getting lost day [ >> BarbaRent7@aol.com] >> Jaco/Joni [Sharon Watkins < >> swat676699@aol.com>] >> Jaco [Paul Ivice < >> ivpaul42@aol.com>] >> Re: Jaco [Shari Eaton < >> shari@sharieaton.com>] >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:22:38 -0400 (EDT) >> From: BarbaRent7@aol.com >> Subject: Re: Columbus getting lost day >> >> I agree with you Jim about Columbus not being solely responsible but an >> example of white arrogance and greed...it should not be a holiday, and why >> didn't Christopher just get a map from Life Erikson who was there first? >> Another 500 yrs and who knows? All of the tribes might have killed off >> each other... >> >> Peace, Babs of CA >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 20:40:56 -0500 >> From: Sharon Watkins >> Subject: Jaco/Joni >> >> It takes two to tango. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 02:01:57 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Paul Ivice >> Subject: Jaco >> >> On Oct 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Corey Blake wrote: >>> >>> Sounds pretty absurd but pretending for a moment that the events are >> true, >> no >> one (not even Joni) can force someone to sleep with them. Either he chose >> to >> be >> unfaithful or he was raped. >> >> So, continuing under the theory that the allegations are true, there is no >> such thing as sexual harassment in the workplace and all those women who >> screwed their boss because they feared for their jobs were secretly >> choosing >> to be unfaithful to their husbands, or they were raped? >> What a crock. >> I don't know Joni very well personally, having met her briefly only once, >> but >> I know that most successful geniuses in almost any profession are selfish >> bastards who want what they want when they want it and everyone else be >> damned. >> It's true of politicians, athletes, actors, high-powered business men and >> every other field, and musicians may be among the worst offenders. >> Even Albert Einstein was a notorious womanizer. >> We have seen this pattern of behavior for a long time among successful men >> in >> all of those professions, so without attacking Joni personally, why would >> it >> be so hard to believe it could not be true of a woman? >> >> Paul Ivice ;>) >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:31:21 -0700 >> From: Shari Eaton >> Subject: Re: Jaco >> >> I don't know enough about Jaco to understand exactly what went on. It's >> hard to imagine Joni sitting idly by while he ruins his life, falls deep >> into depression, alcoholism, and violence without trying to pull him out of >> it or helping him somehow. It just doesn't ring true but this is seemingly >> what took place. >> >> My apologies if this offended some of you. His death is very sad and if I >> were a Jaco fan like I'm a Joni fan I could imagine feeling the pain this >> man expressed (on amazon ??) >> >> Let's consider this conversation null and void. I was hoping to hear >> validation of her innocence but this is really just a dynamic that took >> place between the two of them that we can never know about. >> >> - - Shari >> >>> On Oct 16, 2013, at 11:01 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: >>> >>>> On Oct 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Corey Blake wrote: >>>> >>>> Sounds pretty absurd but pretending for a moment that the events are >> true, >>> no >>> one (not even Joni) can force someone to sleep with them. Either he >> chose to >>> be >>> unfaithful or he was raped. >>> >>> So, continuing under the theory that the allegations are true, there is >> no >>> such thing as sexual harassment in the workplace and all those women who >>> screwed their boss because they feared for their jobs were secretly >> choosing >>> to be unfaithful to their husbands, or they were raped? >>> What a crock. >>> I don't know Joni very well personally, having met her briefly only >> once, but >>> I know that most successful geniuses in almost any profession are selfish >>> bastards who want what they want when they want it and everyone else be >>> damned. >>> It's true of politicians, athletes, actors, high-powered business men and >>> every other field, and musicians may be among the worst offenders. >>> Even Albert Einstein was a notorious womanizer. >>> We have seen this pattern of behavior for a long time among successful >> men in >>> all of those professions, so without attacking Joni personally, why >> would it >>> be so hard to believe it could not be true of a woman? >>> >>> Paul Ivice ;>) >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1397 >> ****************************** >> >> ------- >> To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. >> Unsubscribe by clicking here: >> mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe >> ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:42:20 -0700 From: Mary Morris Subject: Joni mentions - film If you haven't seen the newly released last film of James Gandolfini, "Enough Said", please do. Light, but quirky, no schtick romantic comedy with a little twist. The ex-wife character, a poetess, played by Catherine Keener, says that Joni Mitchell called her to compliment her on her gallies for her book of poetry. Then she name drops a couple of more times for emphasis.....& the other character says "Joni?" I can't tell if it's meant to be complimentary or not; it could be taken both ways since the ex-wife is not a totally pleasant person. Anyway, it's always fun to see what mentions Joni gets. She is a star, after all. GREETINGS FROM THE TRIPLE M Down a gravel road, where the barb wire meets the sky. MARY M. MORRIS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 18:03:52 -0400 From: Victor Subject: Re: Joni and Jaco Can't fail to see the irony in posting a message, continuing a thread, and in the same breath, saying "let's stop talking about it." As with any discussion, those who want to discuss, do so, and those who don't, delete. I read the interview with Ingrid and Wally, which was really interesting and informative, and happened only because Pearl happened to run into her at a yardsale. It seems that so many of the most talented artists end up on a destructive path. Victor in Atlanta Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 17, 2013, at 5:33 PM, fabiococchi@ymail.com wrote: > > I believe Joni would be very sad to hear all this. Of course it doesn't make sense. Let's stop talking about it . Really crazy... > > Inviato da iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:13:23 -0700 From: Corey Blake Subject: Re: Jaco Hi Paul, Yes that definitely does happen, and I was too black and white in what I wrote. I don't know what the sexual harassment laws were at the time but (again, pretending this is true for a moment) Joni using her status as Jaco's employer to initiate a romantic or purely sexual relationship would be wrong. That being said, people can feel pressured and/compelled to participate in such a relationship but they're still making the decision. At least, as the alleged scenario is described. On Oct 16, 2013, at 11:01 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > On Oct 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Corey Blake wrote: >> >> Sounds pretty absurd but pretending for a moment that the events are true, > no > one (not even Joni) can force someone to sleep with them. Either he chose to > be > unfaithful or he was raped. > > So, continuing under the theory that the allegations are true, there is no > such thing as sexual harassment in the workplace and all those women who > screwed their boss because they feared for their jobs were secretly choosing > to be unfaithful to their husbands, or they were raped? > What a crock. > I don't know Joni very well personally, having met her briefly only once, but > I know that most successful geniuses in almost any profession are selfish > bastards who want what they want when they want it and everyone else be > damned. > It's true of politicians, athletes, actors, high-powered business men and > every other field, and musicians may be among the worst offenders. > Even Albert Einstein was a notorious womanizer. > We have seen this pattern of behavior for a long time among successful men in > all of those professions, so without attacking Joni personally, why would it > be so hard to believe it could not be true of a woman? > > Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 23:33:22 +0200 From: fabiococchi@ymail.com Subject: Joni and Jaco I believe Joni would be very sad to hear all this. Of course it doesn't make sense. Let's stop talking about it . Really crazy... Inviato da iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:17:09 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1397 This ties in nicely with the artists with illness topic. Thank you for the info. - - Shari > On Oct 17, 2013, at 6:52 AM, Laurie Antonioli wrote: > > My two cents on Jaco: he was mentally ill AND an addict and no one can > MAKE someone become this. I saw him in a very bizarre circumstance toward > the end of his life where I called security on him and then someone told me > it was "Jaco" and so once his identity was established we just let him > wander around backstage at a huge event I was producing. It was very sad. > Heartbreaking. The whole jazz community that was at the event (the > musicians) were all upset to see him like this. It was like seeing Chet > Baker at the end of his life. No one does this to someone, you can not > blame an outside thing for becoming mentally ill or an addict, which he > was, and though there are often contributing factors, I'm quite sure Joni > can not be blamed for his demise. It's ludicrous. Here's some info from > Wikipedia: > > *By 1986, Pastorius' health had further deteriorated. He had been evicted > from his New York apartment and began living on the > streets.[22]In > July 1986, following intervention by his then ex-wife Ingrid with the > help of his brother Gregory, he was admitted to Bellevue > Hospitalin New York, > where he was prescribed > Tegretol in preference to > Lithium > .[21]He > moved back to Fort Lauderdale in December of that year, again living > on > the streets for weeks at a > time.[22] > * > > *After sneaking onstage at a Carlos > Santanaconcert on > September 11, 1987, and being ejected from the premises, > Pastorius made his way to the Midnight Bottle Club in Wilton Manors, > Florida > .[23] After > reportedly kicking in a glass door, having been refused entrance to the > club, he was engaged in a violent confrontation with the club > bouncer, > Luc Havan.[24] Pastorius > was hospitalized for multiple facial fractures and injuries to > his right eye and left arm. He fell into a coma and was put on life > support > .* > > I can not confirm a Widipedia entry, but, I saw this exact same behavior > that night he was at our event. This was in 1983...so he was living like > this for many years before he finally passed and lots of people tried to > help him, but couldn't. Again: heartbreaking and, whomever thought it'd > be cute to blame Joni for this must not know or understand who Jaco was and > the terrible demons that haunted him. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 11:32 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > >> >> JMDL Digest Thursday, October 17 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1397 >> >> >> >> ========== >> >> TOPICS and authors in this Digest: >> -------- >> Re: Columbus getting lost day [ >> BarbaRent7@aol.com] >> Jaco/Joni [Sharon Watkins < >> swat676699@aol.com>] >> Jaco [Paul Ivice < >> ivpaul42@aol.com>] >> Re: Jaco [Shari Eaton < >> shari@sharieaton.com>] >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:22:38 -0400 (EDT) >> From: BarbaRent7@aol.com >> Subject: Re: Columbus getting lost day >> >> I agree with you Jim about Columbus not being solely responsible but an >> example of white arrogance and greed...it should not be a holiday, and why >> didn't Christopher just get a map from Life Erikson who was there first? >> Another 500 yrs and who knows? All of the tribes might have killed off >> each other... >> >> Peace, Babs of CA >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 20:40:56 -0500 >> From: Sharon Watkins >> Subject: Jaco/Joni >> >> It takes two to tango. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 02:01:57 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Paul Ivice >> Subject: Jaco >> >>> On Oct 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Corey Blake wrote: >>> >>> Sounds pretty absurd but pretending for a moment that the events are >> true, >> no >> one (not even Joni) can force someone to sleep with them. Either he chose >> to >> be >> unfaithful or he was raped. >> >> So, continuing under the theory that the allegations are true, there is no >> such thing as sexual harassment in the workplace and all those women who >> screwed their boss because they feared for their jobs were secretly >> choosing >> to be unfaithful to their husbands, or they were raped? >> What a crock. >> I don't know Joni very well personally, having met her briefly only once, >> but >> I know that most successful geniuses in almost any profession are selfish >> bastards who want what they want when they want it and everyone else be >> damned. >> It's true of politicians, athletes, actors, high-powered business men and >> every other field, and musicians may be among the worst offenders. >> Even Albert Einstein was a notorious womanizer. >> We have seen this pattern of behavior for a long time among successful men >> in >> all of those professions, so without attacking Joni personally, why would >> it >> be so hard to believe it could not be true of a woman? >> >> Paul Ivice ;>) >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:31:21 -0700 >> From: Shari Eaton >> Subject: Re: Jaco >> >> I don't know enough about Jaco to understand exactly what went on. It's >> hard to imagine Joni sitting idly by while he ruins his life, falls deep >> into depression, alcoholism, and violence without trying to pull him out of >> it or helping him somehow. It just doesn't ring true but this is seemingly >> what took place. >> >> My apologies if this offended some of you. His death is very sad and if I >> were a Jaco fan like I'm a Joni fan I could imagine feeling the pain this >> man expressed (on amazon ??) >> >> Let's consider this conversation null and void. I was hoping to hear >> validation of her innocence but this is really just a dynamic that took >> place between the two of them that we can never know about. >> >> - - Shari >> >>>> On Oct 16, 2013, at 11:01 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: >>>> >>>> On Oct 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Corey Blake wrote: >>>> >>>> Sounds pretty absurd but pretending for a moment that the events are >> true, >>> no >>> one (not even Joni) can force someone to sleep with them. Either he >> chose to >>> be >>> unfaithful or he was raped. >>> >>> So, continuing under the theory that the allegations are true, there is >> no >>> such thing as sexual harassment in the workplace and all those women who >>> screwed their boss because they feared for their jobs were secretly >> choosing >>> to be unfaithful to their husbands, or they were raped? >>> What a crock. >>> I don't know Joni very well personally, having met her briefly only >> once, but >>> I know that most successful geniuses in almost any profession are selfish >>> bastards who want what they want when they want it and everyone else be >>> damned. >>> It's true of politicians, athletes, actors, high-powered business men and >>> every other field, and musicians may be among the worst offenders. >>> Even Albert Einstein was a notorious womanizer. >>> We have seen this pattern of behavior for a long time among successful >> men in >>> all of those professions, so without attacking Joni personally, why >> would it >>> be so hard to believe it could not be true of a woman? >>> >>> Paul Ivice ;>) >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1397 >> ****************************** >> >> ------- >> To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. >> Unsubscribe by clicking here: >> mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe >> ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 19:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Vallee Subject: Joni's Help Me on Parenthood tpnight Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:01:24 -0700 From: Jill S Subject: Interview for English course at SJSU I am writing a familiar essay (see Anne Fadiman's *At Large and At Small)*about Joni and me for my final English class at San Jose State. I hope it's good. My dear, late mother's maiden name was Anderson and my husband is a jazz player/piano tuner. So, I figure, we have something in common. Joni is an amazing songwriter. I sing (not so well) and Dave Stahl plays her tunes, and improvises. He has met Neil Young, but he hit his head on his piano when he was moving it so I doubt he made a lasting impression. Ha! Does anyone here know how I can arrange an interview with Joni? I am just a college student, older student as they go, but I would love to meet her. Thanks! <650-438-3087> ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #401 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe