From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #399 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, October 17 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 399 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1397 [Catherine McKay ] Jaco and Joni [Rob Steen ] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1397 [Laurie Antonioli ] Jaco [Paul Ivice ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 07:04:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1397 The very fact that the poster/commentator on the Jaco bio said s/he wished Joni would die and called her a c*nt automatically invalidates anything else they said and makes me doubt their mental health. On Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:55:08 AM, Laurie Antonioli wrote: My two cents on Jaco: he was mentally ill AND an addict and no one can >MAKE someone become this. I saw him in a very bizarre circumstance toward >the end of his life where I called security on him and then someone told me >it was "Jaco" and so once his identity was established we just let him >wander around backstage at a huge event I was producing. It was very sad. >Heartbreaking. The whole jazz community that was at the event (the >musicians) were all upset to see him like this. It was like seeing Chet >Baker at the end of his life. No one does this to someone, you can not >blame an outside thing for becoming mentally ill or an addict, which he >was, and though there are often contributing factors, I'm quite sure Joni >can not be blamed for his demise. It's ludicrous. Here's some info from >Wikipedia: > >*By 1986, Pastorius' health had further deteriorated. He had been evicted >from his New York apartment and began living on the >streets.[22]In >July 1986, following intervention by his then ex-wife Ingrid with the >help of his brother Gregory, he was admitted to Bellevue >Hospitalin New York, >where he was prescribed >Tegretol in preference to >Lithium >.[21]He >moved back to Fort Lauderdale in December of that year, again living >on >the streets for weeks at a >time.[22] >* > >*After sneaking onstage at a Carlos >Santanaconcert on >September 11, 1987, and being ejected from the premises, >Pastorius made his way to the Midnight Bottle Club in Wilton Manors, >Florida >.[23] After >reportedly kicking in a glass door, having been refused entrance to the >club, he was engaged in a violent confrontation with the club >bouncer, >Luc Havan.[24] Pastorius >was hospitalized for multiple facial fractures and injuries to >his right eye and left arm. He fell into a coma and was put on life >support >.* > >I can not confirm a Widipedia entry, but, I saw this exact same behavior >that night he was at our event. This was in 1983...so he was living like >this for many years before he finally passed and lots of people tried to >help him, but couldn't. Again: heartbreaking and, whomever thought it'd >be cute to blame Joni for this must not know or understand who Jaco was and >the terrible demons that haunted him. > > > > > >On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 11:32 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > >> >> JMDL Digest Thursday, October 17 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1397 >> >> >> >> ========== >> >> TOPICS and authors in this Digest: >> -------- >> Re: Columbus getting lost day [ >> BarbaRent7@aol.com] >> Jaco/Joni [Sharon Watkins < >> swat676699@aol.com>] >> Jaco [Paul Ivice < >> ivpaul42@aol.com>] >> Re: Jaco [Shari Eaton < >> shari@sharieaton.com>] >> >> - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:22:38 -0400 (EDT) >> From: BarbaRent7@aol.com >> Subject: Re: Columbus getting lost day >> >> I agree with you Jim about Columbus not being solely responsible but an >> example of white arrogance and greed...it should not be a holiday, and why >> didn't Christopher just get a map from Life Erikson who was there first? >> Another 500 yrs and who knows? All of the tribes might have killed off >> each other... >> >> Peace, Babs of CA >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 20:40:56 - -0500 >> From: Sharon Watkins >> Subject: Jaco/Joni >> >> It takes two to tango. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> - ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 02:01:57 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Paul Ivice >> Subject: Jaco >> >> On Oct 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Corey Blake wrote: >> > >> > Sounds pretty absurd but pretending for a moment that the events are >> true, >> no >> one (not even Joni) can force someone to sleep with them. Either he chose >> to >> be >> unfaithful or he was raped. >> >> So, continuing under the theory that the allegations are true, there is no >> such thing as sexual harassment in the workplace and all those women who >> screwed their boss because they feared for their jobs were secretly >> choosing >> to be unfaithful to their husbands, or they were raped? >> What a crock. >> I don't know Joni very well personally, having met her briefly only once, >> but >> I know that most successful geniuses in almost any profession are selfish >> bastards who want what they want when they want it and everyone else be >> damned. >> It's true of politicians, athletes, actors, high-powered business men and >> every other field, and musicians may be among the worst offenders. >> Even Albert Einstein was a notorious womanizer. >> We have seen this pattern of behavior for a long time among successful men >> in >> all of those professions, so without attacking Joni personally, why would >> it >> be so hard to believe it could not be true of a woman? >> >> Paul Ivice ;>) >> >> - ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:31:21 -0700 >> From: Shari Eaton >> Subject: Re: Jaco >> >> I don't know enough about Jaco to understand exactly what went on. It's >> hard to imagine Joni sitting idly by while he ruins his life, falls deep >> into depression, alcoholism, and violence without trying to pull him out of >> it or helping him somehow. It just doesn't ring true but this is seemingly >> what took place. >> >> My apologies if this offended some of you. His death is very sad and if I >> were a Jaco fan like I'm a Joni fan I could imagine feeling the pain this >> man expressed (on amazon ??) >> >> Let's consider this conversation null and void. I was hoping to hear >> validation of her innocence but this is really just a dynamic that took >> place between the two of them that we can never know about. >> >> - - Shari >> >> > On Oct 16, 2013, at 11:01 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: >> > >> >> On Oct 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Corey Blake wrote: >> >> >> >> Sounds pretty absurd but pretending for a moment that the events are >> true, >> > no >> > one (not even Joni) can force someone to sleep with them. Either he >> chose to >> > be >> > unfaithful or he was raped. >> > >> > So, continuing under the theory that the allegations are true, there is >> no >> > such thing as sexual harassment in the workplace and all those women who >> > screwed their boss because they feared for their jobs were secretly >> choosing >> > to be unfaithful to their husbands, or they were raped? >> > What a crock. >> > I don't know Joni very well personally, having met her briefly only >> once, but >> > I know that most successful geniuses in almost any profession are selfish >> > bastards who want what they want when they want it and everyone else be >> > damned. >> > It's true of politicians, athletes, actors, high-powered business men and >> > every other field, and musicians may be among the worst offenders. >> > Even Albert Einstein was a notorious womanizer. >> > We have seen this pattern of behavior for a long time among successful >> men in >> > all of those professions, so without attacking Joni personally, why >> would it >> > be so hard to believe it could not be true of a woman? >> > >> > Paul Ivice ;>) >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1397 >> ****************************** >> >> ------- >> To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. >> Unsubscribe by clicking here: >> mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe >> - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 03:39:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Steen Subject: Jaco and Joni Haven't posted for ages but the Jaco story got me digging. The upshot was the following interview our Wally conducted with Ingrid, his second wife, which in my view contradicts the suggestion that Joni ruined either of his marriages: http://www.jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1360 Bestest Rob Mobile: 07813 668726 Website: Bodacious.com THIS JUST IN...PADDY MAC: THE COMEBACK (https://sites.google.com/site/bodaciouscom/paddy-mac-the-comeback) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 06:52:35 -0700 From: Laurie Antonioli Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1397 My two cents on Jaco: he was mentally ill AND an addict and no one can MAKE someone become this. I saw him in a very bizarre circumstance toward the end of his life where I called security on him and then someone told me it was "Jaco" and so once his identity was established we just let him wander around backstage at a huge event I was producing. It was very sad. Heartbreaking. The whole jazz community that was at the event (the musicians) were all upset to see him like this. It was like seeing Chet Baker at the end of his life. No one does this to someone, you can not blame an outside thing for becoming mentally ill or an addict, which he was, and though there are often contributing factors, I'm quite sure Joni can not be blamed for his demise. It's ludicrous. Here's some info from Wikipedia: *By 1986, Pastorius' health had further deteriorated. He had been evicted from his New York apartment and began living on the streets.[22]In July 1986, following intervention by his then ex-wife Ingrid with the help of his brother Gregory, he was admitted to Bellevue Hospitalin New York, where he was prescribed Tegretol in preference to Lithium .[21]He moved back to Fort Lauderdale in December of that year, again living on the streets for weeks at a time.[22] * *After sneaking onstage at a Carlos Santanaconcert on September 11, 1987, and being ejected from the premises, Pastorius made his way to the Midnight Bottle Club in Wilton Manors, Florida .[23] After reportedly kicking in a glass door, having been refused entrance to the club, he was engaged in a violent confrontation with the club bouncer, Luc Havan.[24] Pastorius was hospitalized for multiple facial fractures and injuries to his right eye and left arm. He fell into a coma and was put on life support .* I can not confirm a Widipedia entry, but, I saw this exact same behavior that night he was at our event. This was in 1983...so he was living like this for many years before he finally passed and lots of people tried to help him, but couldn't. Again: heartbreaking and, whomever thought it'd be cute to blame Joni for this must not know or understand who Jaco was and the terrible demons that haunted him. On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 11:32 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Thursday, October 17 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1397 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: Columbus getting lost day [ > BarbaRent7@aol.com] > Jaco/Joni [Sharon Watkins < > swat676699@aol.com>] > Jaco [Paul Ivice < > ivpaul42@aol.com>] > Re: Jaco [Shari Eaton < > shari@sharieaton.com>] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:22:38 -0400 (EDT) > From: BarbaRent7@aol.com > Subject: Re: Columbus getting lost day > > I agree with you Jim about Columbus not being solely responsible but an > example of white arrogance and greed...it should not be a holiday, and why > didn't Christopher just get a map from Life Erikson who was there first? > Another 500 yrs and who knows? All of the tribes might have killed off > each other... > > Peace, Babs of CA > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 20:40:56 -0500 > From: Sharon Watkins > Subject: Jaco/Joni > > It takes two to tango. > > Sent from my iPhone > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 02:01:57 -0400 (EDT) > From: Paul Ivice > Subject: Jaco > > On Oct 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Corey Blake wrote: > > > > Sounds pretty absurd but pretending for a moment that the events are > true, > no > one (not even Joni) can force someone to sleep with them. Either he chose > to > be > unfaithful or he was raped. > > So, continuing under the theory that the allegations are true, there is no > such thing as sexual harassment in the workplace and all those women who > screwed their boss because they feared for their jobs were secretly > choosing > to be unfaithful to their husbands, or they were raped? > What a crock. > I don't know Joni very well personally, having met her briefly only once, > but > I know that most successful geniuses in almost any profession are selfish > bastards who want what they want when they want it and everyone else be > damned. > It's true of politicians, athletes, actors, high-powered business men and > every other field, and musicians may be among the worst offenders. > Even Albert Einstein was a notorious womanizer. > We have seen this pattern of behavior for a long time among successful men > in > all of those professions, so without attacking Joni personally, why would > it > be so hard to believe it could not be true of a woman? > > Paul Ivice ;>) > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:31:21 -0700 > From: Shari Eaton > Subject: Re: Jaco > > I don't know enough about Jaco to understand exactly what went on. It's > hard to imagine Joni sitting idly by while he ruins his life, falls deep > into depression, alcoholism, and violence without trying to pull him out of > it or helping him somehow. It just doesn't ring true but this is seemingly > what took place. > > My apologies if this offended some of you. His death is very sad and if I > were a Jaco fan like I'm a Joni fan I could imagine feeling the pain this > man expressed (on amazon ??) > > Let's consider this conversation null and void. I was hoping to hear > validation of her innocence but this is really just a dynamic that took > place between the two of them that we can never know about. > > - - Shari > > > On Oct 16, 2013, at 11:01 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > > > >> On Oct 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Corey Blake wrote: > >> > >> Sounds pretty absurd but pretending for a moment that the events are > true, > > no > > one (not even Joni) can force someone to sleep with them. Either he > chose to > > be > > unfaithful or he was raped. > > > > So, continuing under the theory that the allegations are true, there is > no > > such thing as sexual harassment in the workplace and all those women who > > screwed their boss because they feared for their jobs were secretly > choosing > > to be unfaithful to their husbands, or they were raped? > > What a crock. > > I don't know Joni very well personally, having met her briefly only > once, but > > I know that most successful geniuses in almost any profession are selfish > > bastards who want what they want when they want it and everyone else be > > damned. > > It's true of politicians, athletes, actors, high-powered business men and > > every other field, and musicians may be among the worst offenders. > > Even Albert Einstein was a notorious womanizer. > > We have seen this pattern of behavior for a long time among successful > men in > > all of those professions, so without attacking Joni personally, why > would it > > be so hard to believe it could not be true of a woman? > > > > Paul Ivice ;>) > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1397 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 02:01:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Ivice Subject: Jaco On Oct 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Corey Blake wrote: > > Sounds pretty absurd but pretending for a moment that the events are true, no one (not even Joni) can force someone to sleep with them. Either he chose to be unfaithful or he was raped. So, continuing under the theory that the allegations are true, there is no such thing as sexual harassment in the workplace and all those women who screwed their boss because they feared for their jobs were secretly choosing to be unfaithful to their husbands, or they were raped? What a crock. I don't know Joni very well personally, having met her briefly only once, but I know that most successful geniuses in almost any profession are selfish bastards who want what they want when they want it and everyone else be damned. It's true of politicians, athletes, actors, high-powered business men and every other field, and musicians may be among the worst offenders. Even Albert Einstein was a notorious womanizer. We have seen this pattern of behavior for a long time among successful men in all of those professions, so without attacking Joni personally, why would it be so hard to believe it could not be true of a woman? Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #399 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe