From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #394 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, October 15 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 394 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Sickness and the artist /Joni songs about illness? [Ange T ] The Circle Game [Vincenzo Mancini ] Banksy/Joni reference [Betsy Blue ] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1344 [Laurie Antonioli ] Re: Sickness and the artist /Joni songs about illness? [Catherine McKay <] Robbie Robertson's Legends, Icons, and Rebels ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Sickness and the artist /Joni songs about illness? [jlhommedieu@insig] Joni guitars ["Laurent Olszer" ] RE: Sickness and the artist /Joni songs about illness? ["Susan E. McNamar] RE: Joni Guitars ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Joni and the loss of her Martin D-28 [simon@icu.com] re: Joni Guitar/strings [c Karma ] Joni Guitar/Strings [simon@icu.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 06:14:17 +1000 From: Ange T Subject: Sickness and the artist /Joni songs about illness? Hey Listers, One of the things that struck me about the CBC interview with Joni was all her references to sickness. I've been thinking lately about the idea of sickness and the artist. There seems to be many extraordinary artists who were struck down with terrible illnesses during their lives. Yesterday I was looking through some websites featuring the work of Frida Kahlo. She often painted herself in a hospital bed and referenced her crippled state in her work. This morning my head has been trying to figure out whether there are any Joni tunes that make specific reference to her years in and out of hospitals. Rather than sit down and look over every lyric, I thought I'd ask the experts! And while I'm asking... do you know of any other singer/songwriters who have battled illness while creating musical brilliance during their careers? I want to explore this topic further...and maybe write a song about it. Thanks, Ange in Oz angetakats.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:13:48 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Re: Robbie Robertson's Legends, Icons, and Rebels Richard Flynn wrote: > Just heard Robbie Roberston on NPR talking about his new book for young people. > There is a chapter on Joni. > > > > Sounds like a good book. I just ordered it. Richard, I Agree. Just ordered my copy. Anyone interested in the interview can give it a listen for themselves. It's already up on the NPR "All Things Considered" WebSite at the following URL: Check it out. Part memoir, part tribute, and all great storytelling ... Music industry veterans Robbie Robertson, Jim Guerinot, Jared Levine, and Sebastian Robertson invite young readers to share with them in celebrating twenty-seven musical legends. Short profiles chronicle personal stories and achievements of extraordinarily talented artists whose innovations changed the landscape of music for generations to come. Carefully compiled like any great playlist, the line-up features originators, rebels, and risk-takers across diverse genres. From Ray Charles to Johnny Cash, Chuck Berry to Bob Dylan, Robertson shares anecdotes about these artists and the influence they had on his own musical journey. andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simonM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:53:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lakota Marianne, you said, "I think that many of you on the list are natives in your body and/or soul. Who feels this? Every time they pave paradise and. . . "Paving over brave little parks. . . " ( that line breaks me) What kinds of experiences have made you feel this?" I'm not going to go so far as to say that I feel that I'm a native, because I think that might be presumptuous of me. But, I do tend to favour the underdog in any situation. I figure that anyone who flounces in and sets about destroying a culture is a bully, at the very least, and I just don't like bullies. I've always been drawn to the stories of the people who didn't show up in the history books we were subjected to as kids, because they were always more interesting and appealing to me. On Sunday, October 13, 2013 8:16:41 AM, Marianne Rizzo wrote: Thank you simon for the reality check on columbus. >We have to get this holiday *changed, >I tell my students at school, let's come to school Monday and take off Tuesday >and celebrate the Indians (native Americans . . . which is the proper way to >refer to the Indians? I am asking) > >I think that many of you on the list are natives in your body and/or soul. >Who feels this? >Every time they pave paradise and. . . >"Paving over brave little parks. . . " ( that line breaks me) > >What kinds of experiences have made you feel this? >It would be nice for a few of us to get together and try to sing and play it. >It is so different. >It is in my heart. . . . wow. >Don't you hear the shrieking in the trees, the whimpering water >No fracking in ny state , no fracking in arkansas, no fracking in china. . No >fracking in Colorado, no fracking in the world. . >(If I sound like a crazy person, it is because it has brought me to this. . . >And perhaps I am) >Smile (I do need some drugs, or maybe just some activism) (or both) >Thank you joni, this song is amazing. > >I am Lakota >Lakota! >Looking at money man >Diggin' the deadly quotas >Out of balance >Out of hand >We want the land! >Lay down the reeking ore >Don't you hear the shrieking in the trees? >Everywhere you touch the earth she's sore >Every time you skin her all things weep >Your money mocks us >Restitution what good can it do? >Kennelled in metered boxes >Red dogs in debt to you > >I am Lakota! >Lakota! >Fighting among ourselves >All we can say with one whole heart >Is we won't sell >No we'll never sell >We want the land! >The lonely coyote calls >In the woodlands footprints of the deer >In the barrooms poor drunk bastard falls >In the courtrooms deaf ears sixty years >You think we're sleeping but >Quietly like rattlesnakes and stars >We have seen the trampled rainbows >In the smoke of cars > >I am Lakota >Brave >Sun pity me >I am Lakota >Broken >Moon pity me >I am Lakota >Grave >Shadows stretching >Lakota >Oh pity me >I am Lakota >Weak >Grass pity me >I am Lakota >Faithful >Rocks pity me >I am Lakota >Meek >Standing water >Lakota >Oh pity me > >I am Lakota! >Lakota! >Standing on sacred land >We never sold these Black Hills >To the missile heads >To the power plants >We want the land! >The bullet and the fence broke Lakota >The black coats and the booze broke Lakota >Courts that circumvent choke Lakota >Nothing left to lose >Tell me grandfather >You spoke the fur and feather tongues >Do you hear the whimpering waters >When the tractors come? > >Sun pity me >Mother earth >Mother >Moon pity me >Father sky >Father >Shadows >Stretching on the forest floor >Mother earth >Oh pity me >Father sky >Father >Grass pity me >Mother earth >Mother >Rocks pity me >Father sky >Father >Water >Standing in a wakan manner >Mother earth >Oh pity me > > >"With one whole heart," >Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:48:03 +0100 (BST) From: Vincenzo Mancini Subject: The Circle Game Never seen this before: Chuck Mitchell end of 60s? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUkKMGsDZ0w Enjoy Vincenzo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 13:06:06 -0700 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Banksy/Joni reference There are several comments about For Free on this article about Banksy. Now, seriously, if you saw Joni Mitchell in disguise reciting original poetry or painting on the street, would you pay any attention? http://gawker.com/banksy-tried-to-sell-his-art-anonymously-to-people-in-c-1444770867 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:18:31 -0700 From: Laurie Antonioli Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1344 NJC One of my favorite books on disease and creativity is called "Witness to the Fire - Creativity and the Veil of Addiction" - using the Jungian model of archetypes and the fact that many artists suffer from the disease of addiction. Author: Linda Schierse Leonard It's an intellectual as well as a soulful read. On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 12:00 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Friday, October 4 2013 Volume 2013 : Number > 1344 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > New hi-rez Joni [ > jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] > Re: Girls Like Us [Shari Eaton < > shari@sharieaton.com>] > Re: Girls Like Us [Richard Flynn < > rflynn@frontiernet.net>] > Un*su*bbing from the list for a while (NJC) [Lori Renee Fye > Re: Girls Like Us [Catherine McKay < > anima_rising@yahoo.ca>] > Re: Girls Like Us [Catherine McKay < > anima_rising@yahoo.ca>] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 22:49:42 -0400 > From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com > Subject: New hi-rez Joni > > hdtracks.com now has high rez versions of THOSL and DJRD. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 18:22:03 -0700 > From: Shari Eaton > Subject: Re: Girls Like Us > > Kind of got this sense from the published excerpts. How did this guy come > to win Joni's heart? I think I'll give it a miss if only to withhold his > parasitic earnings a tiny bit. I just recently attended his photography > opening and most of his sales were photos of Joni. He only spent time with > the ppl that purchased a piece and even ducked out the window at the end of > the night so he wouldn't have to greet anyone. Meh. > > > > On Oct 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Richard Flynn > wrote: > > > > The Nash book is so immature it's embarrassing. I've taken to reading > portions aloud to Becky who groans when I do! Like you, I'll finish it for > the gossip, but the next time he makes a profound observation like, "Jimi > Hendrix, that fucker could play guitar" I think I may throw the book across > the room. > > > > Richard Flynn > > Professor of Literature > > Georgia Southern University > > https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn > > http://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RichardFlynn > > > >> On Oct 3, 2013, at 7:45 PM, Catherine McKay > wrote: > >> > >> I'm not a huge Carly fan, but have enjoyed some of her work. In fact, > "Another Passenger" is my favourite album of hers (and the only one I > bought). I can't remember why I bought it back when it came out. Maybe it > was "In times when my head" or "It keeps you running", but my particular > favourite is "He likes to roll" which isn't a deep song at all, but I like > the guitar playing on it (Laurindo Almeida) and the beat. I have to agree > with you about her later output though. Kinda blech to me. But hey! > everyone's different! > >> > >> I enjoyed "Girls like us" although I had some difficulty in the > beginning with the writer's style (but it grew on me.) Even though I was > primarily interested in the Joni stuff, I also found the Carly and Carole > stuff interesting. > >> > >> Right now I'm reading Graham Nash's book. Not impressed with that > writing style at all, but I'm up for a little gossip from time to time and > am more interested in the Joni parts, as I was never really a fan of the > Hollies or CSNY (which is probably sacrilege to 90% of the people on this > list, but there: I said it, so let the flames commence.) > >> > >> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: Rick Hobbs-Seeley > >>> To: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" > >>> Cc: Paul Ivice ; "joni@smoe.org" > >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 11:34:08 AM > >>> Subject: Re: Girls Like Us > >>> > >>> > >>> I've enjoyed this thread. The subjects of Girls Like Us mirrored three > of my go to artists back in the day. I've had the book since it came out, > but, it still sits on the shelf unread. > >>> > >>> I was a big Carly fan in her early period. Anticipation, No Secrets, > Hot Cakes and especially Another Passenger are among my large list of > favorite albums. It was probably Carly who moved me (officially) to Joni > and Joni to Carole. Before these women, I was strictly a Bowie-Stones-Who > genre devotee. > >>> > >>> To me, Carly offered whimsy (Fairweather Father, Older Sister) and > frequently more frilly production on the same LP with her more sedate, > serious works (Libby, At Times When My Head). The LP listening experience > was a good balance to my ears. I've always enjoyed a little indulgent > production and whimsy - that not being an adjective I'd use as frequently > when describing Joni's music to a friend. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 20:15:21 -0400 > From: Richard Flynn > Subject: Re: Girls Like Us > > The Nash book is so immature it's embarrassing. I've taken to reading > portions aloud to Becky who groans when I do! Like you, I'll finish it for > the gossip, but the next time he makes a profound observation like, "Jimi > Hendrix, that fucker could play guitar" I think I may throw the book across > the room. > > Richard Flynn > Professor of Literature > Georgia Southern University > https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn > http://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RichardFlynn > > > On Oct 3, 2013, at 7:45 PM, Catherine McKay > wrote: > > > > I'm not a huge Carly fan, but have enjoyed some of her work. In fact, > "Another Passenger" is my favourite album of hers (and the only one I > bought). I can't remember why I bought it back when it came out. Maybe it > was "In times when my head" or "It keeps you running", but my particular > favourite is "He likes to roll" which isn't a deep song at all, but I like > the guitar playing on it (Laurindo Almeida) and the beat. I have to agree > with you about her later output though. Kinda blech to me. But hey! > everyone's different! > > > > I enjoyed "Girls like us" although I had some difficulty in the > beginning with the writer's style (but it grew on me.) Even though I was > primarily interested in the Joni stuff, I also found the Carly and Carole > stuff interesting. > > > > Right now I'm reading Graham Nash's book. Not impressed with that > writing style at all, but I'm up for a little gossip from time to time and > am more interested in the Joni parts, as I was never really a fan of the > Hollies or CSNY (which is probably sacrilege to 90% of the people on this > list, but there: I said it, so let the flames commence.) > > > > > >> ________________________________ > >> From: Rick Hobbs-Seeley > >> To: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" > >> Cc: Paul Ivice ; "joni@smoe.org" > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 11:34:08 AM > >> Subject: Re: Girls Like Us > >> > >> > >> I've enjoyed this thread. The subjects of Girls Like Us mirrored three > of my go to artists back in the day. I've had the book since it came out, > but, it still sits on the shelf unread. > >> > >> I was a big Carly fan in her early period. Anticipation, No Secrets, > Hot Cakes and especially Another Passenger are among my large list of > favorite albums. It was probably Carly who moved me (officially) to Joni > and Joni to Carole. Before these women, I was strictly a Bowie-Stones-Who > genre devotee. > >> > >> To me, Carly offered whimsy (Fairweather Father, Older Sister) and > frequently more frilly production on the same LP with her more sedate, > serious works (Libby, At Times When My Head). The LP listening experience > was a good balance to my ears. I've always enjoyed a little indulgent > production and whimsy - that not being an adjective I'd use as frequently > when describing Joni's music to a friend. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 20:58:54 -0600 > From: Lori Renee Fye > Subject: Un*su*bbing from the list for a while (NJC) > > Just something I need to do. Anyone who wants to contact me, please do so > through my regular email address (lori.fye@gmail.com). > > Hoping everyone at PazFest III is having a blast. I'd planned to go but it > just didn't work out. > > Best to all, > > Lori > in Idaho > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 16:45:57 -0700 (PDT) > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: Girls Like Us > > I'm not a huge Carly fan, but have enjoyed some of her work. In fact, > "Another Passenger" is my favourite album of hers (and the only one I > bought). I can't remember why I bought it back when it came out. Maybe it > was "In times when my head" or "It keeps you running", but my particular > favourite is "He likes to roll" which isn't a deep song at all, but I like > the guitar playing on it (Laurindo Almeida) and the beat. I have to agree > with you about her later output though. Kinda blech to me. But hey! > everyone's different! > > I enjoyed "Girls like us" although I had some difficulty in the beginning > with the writer's style (but it grew on me.) Even though I was primarily > interested in the Joni stuff, I also found the Carly and Carole stuff > interesting. > > Right now I'm reading Graham Nash's book. Not impressed with that writing > style at all, but I'm up for a little gossip from time to time and am more > interested in the Joni parts, as I was never really a fan of the Hollies or > CSNY (which is probably sacrilege to 90% of the people on this list, but > there: I said it, so let the flames commence.) > > > >________________________________ > > From: Rick Hobbs-Seeley > >To: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" > >Cc: Paul Ivice ; "joni@smoe.org" > >Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 11:34:08 AM > >Subject: Re: Girls Like Us > > > > > >I've enjoyed this thread. The subjects of Girls Like Us mirrored three of > my go to artists back in the day. I've had the book since it came out, but, > it still sits on the shelf unread. > > > >I was a big Carly fan in her early period. Anticipation, No Secrets, Hot > Cakes and especially Another Passenger are among my large list of favorite > albums. It was probably Carly who moved me (officially) to Joni and Joni > to Carole. Before these women, I was strictly a Bowie-Stones-Who genre > devotee. > > > >To me, Carly offered whimsy (Fairweather Father, Older Sister) and > frequently more frilly production on the same LP with her more sedate, > serious works (Libby, At Times When My Head). The LP listening experience > was a good balance to my ears. I've always enjoyed a little indulgent > production and whimsy - that not being an adjective I'd use as frequently > when describing Joni's music to a friend. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 20:19:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: Girls Like Us > > Yes! It's that kind of statement that makes me want to toss the book at > something - or someone. That and talking about girls' tits and wanting to > f*ck this one or that one and on and on, like some 14-year-old. I try to > explain to myself that maybe if I hear this as someone talking to an > interviewer... but naaaahhh! and then I think maybe it's a case of arrested > development from someone who left school at a pretty young age and went > straight into being a musician, got rich and famous fairly quickly and was > a kid in a candy shop. But, no. There are plenty of others who did the same > and still managed to grow up. > > And yet, to my utter shame, I am going to finish reading the damn book! > > > > - ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Richard Flynn > > To: Catherine McKay > > Cc: Rick Hobbs-Seeley ; "joni@smoe.org" < > joni@smoe.org> > > Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2013 8:15:21 PM > > Subject: Re: Girls Like Us > > > >T he Nash book is so immature it's embarrassing. I've taken to reading > > portions aloud to Becky who groans when I do! Like you, I'll finish it > for > > the gossip, but the next time he makes a profound observation like, "Jimi > > Hendrix, that fucker could play guitar" I think I may throw the book > across > > the room. > > > > Richard Flynn > > Professor of Literature > > Georgia Southern University > > https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn > > http://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RichardFlynn > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1344 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:45:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Sickness and the artist /Joni songs about illness? Ange, you asked, "And while I'm asking... do you know of any other singer/songwriters who have battled illness while creating musical brilliance during their careers? I want to explore this topic further...and maybe write a song about it." I'm sure most of us know that Neil Young also had polio as a child, in the same epidemic that struck Joni. From my own memory, as a fan of Veronique Sanson, I know that she had meningitis when she was a teenager and (I've just discovered this part), it gave her a sort of amnesia, so that she has very few memories of her childhood. That has to be very strange. On Monday, October 14, 2013 4:14:17 PM, Ange T wrote: Hey Listers, >One of the things that struck me about the CBC interview with Joni was all >her references to sickness. > >I've been thinking lately about the idea of sickness and the artist. There >seems to be many extraordinary artists who were struck down with terrible >illnesses during their lives. Yesterday I was looking through some websites >featuring the work of Frida Kahlo. She often painted herself in a hospital >bed and referenced her crippled state in her work. > >This morning my head has been trying to figure out whether there are any >Joni tunes that make specific reference to her years in and out of >hospitals. Rather than sit down and look over every lyric, I thought I'd >ask the experts! > >And while I'm asking... do you know of any other singer/songwriters who >have battled illness while creating musical brilliance during their >careers? I want to explore this topic further...and maybe write a song >about it. > >Thanks, >Ange in Oz >angetakats.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:00:09 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Robbie Robertson's Legends, Icons, and Rebels Just heard Robbie Roberston on NPR talking about his new book for young people. There is a chapter on Joni. http://www.amazon.com/Legends-Icons-Rebels-Music-Changed/dp/1770495711 Sounds like a good book. I just ordered it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:48:03 +0100 (BST) From: Vincenzo Mancini Subject: The Circle Game Never seen this before: Chuck Mitchell end of 60s? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUkKMGsDZ0w Enjoy Vincenzo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 21:49:12 -0400 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: RE: Sickness and the artist /Joni songs about illness? Joni said >>Up in a sterilized room>> I was trying to remember that line but my mind kept tracking this instead: >>Out on some borderline>> They both take one of Joni's patented, strange dips on the 6th syllable. I'm not a musician but they sound related to my un-educated ear. Maybe there is a wee bit of polio in all these vain promises in beauty jars. I think that Joni's Christmas-in-the-polio ward is in River. >it's comin on Christmas They're cuttin down trees Puttin up reindeers But I'm full of disease> Maybe not. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 03:42:51 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Joni guitars Hi List; I actually went to Westwood Music in 2003 with the intent of buying one of Joni's. I tried about 15 guitars and to my great disappointment I'm sorry to say I didn't like any of them, sound wise. I also played one of Joe Walsh, and ended up getting another non-celebrity's which sounded better to my ears. I would concur with Dave that the gauges were light, and that's probably why the guitars were not at their full potential. My 2 cents Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:59:43 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Sickness and the artist /Joni songs about illness? What a great topic, Ange! I love Frida Kalho and she immediately came to mind. I searched illness in the JM.com just now and an article came up about Morgellon's and Mingus' illness, but this entry really piqued my interest: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2319&from=search "Chicago Tribune July 23, 1968 Folksinger Theodore Bikel will perform the entire program at Ravinia tomorrow because of the sudden illness of Joni Mitchell. Miss Mitchell, scheduled to share the program, has hepatitis, according to Ravinia spokesmen." Whoa, hepatitis is not a cold. I had never heard that before. Anyway, what I think about is her references to melancholy and depression ... which I view as an illness ... in songs like Hejira "there's comfort in melancholy ..." I Think I Understant ... "Fear is like a wilderland ..." and talking of other's madness in Trouble Child and Sunny Sunday. Here's a pretty melancholy lyric: "We're dancing fools You and me Tonight it's a dance of insecurity It's my solo Blue way Shadows have the saddest things to say" - Sweet Sucker Dance Just random thoughts ... Sue Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Ange T Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 4:14 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Sickness and the artist /Joni songs about illness? Hey Listers, One of the things that struck me about the CBC interview with Joni was all her references to sickness. I've been thinking lately about the idea of sickness and the artist. There seems to be many extraordinary artists who were struck down with terrible illnesses during their lives. Yesterday I was looking through some websites featuring the work of Frida Kahlo. She often painted herself in a hospital bed and referenced her crippled state in her work. This morning my head has been trying to figure out whether there are any Joni tunes that make specific reference to her years in and out of hospitals. Rather than sit down and look over every lyric, I thought I'd ask the experts! And while I'm asking... do you know of any other singer/songwriters who have battled illness while creating musical brilliance during their careers? I want to explore this topic further...and maybe write a song about it. Thanks, Ange in Oz angetakats.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:34:55 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Joni Guitars Great stuff on Joni's guitars, Simon. Thanks. What is the definitive story of what happened to Joni's Martin? I've heard several versions, but I'm not sure which one is right. I am pretty sure it was a Martin D-25 that was given to her by a soldier in 1967, right? Boy, I would love me that guitar!!! :-) Take care, Sue Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of simon@icu.com Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:55 PM To: joni@smoe.org Cc: ckarma@hotmail.com Subject: Joni Guitars c Karma wrote > Subject: Joni guitar strings > > Would anyone know what brand/gauge guitar strings Joni favored during for her acoustic guitar work? > I've read recommendations for open tunings to wear heavier gauge but am not sure if Joni or her guitar > techs would have followed that. BTW, did Joni employ a regular guitar tech? > CC One member suggested that Joni might have used Nylon strings early in her career. There are several pictures of Joni playing what looks like a "00" Series 12-fret Martin guitar with a slotted head. The "00" Series is often used with nylon strings, but I really doubt Joni ever used nylon. However, once Joni rec'd her beloved Martin D28 (1966) it was steel strings all the way, all the time. Joel Bernstein is/was Joni's regular guitar technician. It was Joel handling Joni's guitars on her tours, in 1972, 1974, 1976, 1979, and 1983. If I remember correctly, there was one year when he trained another individual to handle for that role and Joel was just supposed to be the Tour Photographer. However that person wasn't up to the task, so Joel ended up with both jobs. Joel was the one who was up all night before Joni's performance at the New Orleans Jazz Festival in 1995. There were problems with the pre-sets and entering Joni's tunings into the Roland VG-8 guitar processor. - - - - - - Dave Blackburn wrote > Subject: Re: Joni guitar strings > > Joni claims to have weakness in her hands as a result of polio, and chose to explore tunings > rather than learn more chord shapes as the fingerings could be easier. Therefore I would guess > that she chose light guage strings even though they flap against the frets in dropped tunings. > Fred Walecki from L.A Music in Santa Monica was her guitar tech who helped her set up all her > instruments. It was he who sold off her five Ibanez GB10s on eBay, at her request, and a couple > of listers bought two of them. I think Joni's "weak left hand" is somewhat overstated. Early on in her career, she was quite good at finger-picking. In any event, the main reason she turned to alternate tunings was because of the musical variation they offered. It was like giving a painter a whole new palatte of colors. As stated above, Joel Bernstein, not Fred Walecki, was Joni's guitar tech. She did purchase a number of guitars from Westwood Music. Fred definitely set her up with the modified Stratocaster she originally used with the Roland VG-8 guitar processor, before switching to the Parker Fly guitar. In 2003 Westwood Music offered -3- of Joni's guitars for sale via auctions on eBay. The following statement was included with the eBay item description: As Mitchell explored jazzier sounds in the late '70s, she turned to electric guitars. From 1979 until the mid-'80s, she performed with five George Benson model Ibanez guitars, which were set up by Joel Bernstein and Larry Cragg with a range of string gauges to accommodate her tunings. At that time, the Roland Jazz Chorus amp--which was invented, Mitchell says, so she could replicate her Hejira sound in performance--was an important component of her live sound. --ACOUSTIC GUITAR, AUGUST 1996 NOTE: It's highly unlikely that Roland 'specifically designed' the Roland Jazz Chorus amp for Joni. One of these guitars was purchased by JMDL member Anita G. She in turn has become friends with Peter Carney, who bought the first of Joini's guitars auctioned on eBay. The serial numbers indicate that Peter's guitar was made in 1982 meaning it was used on Joni's 1983 World Tour. Joni clearly used this guitar a lot. There is tape on the side showing the tablature for "Sharon" and "Love", which was probably placed there by Joel Bernstein. Anita's guitar was manufactured in 1978 and therefore available for the 1979 Tour, as well as 1983. - - - - - - I SAVED the eBay auction pages as well as the pictures posted with each auction. If you're interested, you can DownLoad the "Joni_Guitars_eBay.zip" file via HighTail at the following URL: Perhaps some of you will find this interesting. - - - - - - re: Joel Bernstein and Larry Cragg - check out the following. andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simonM http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:22:50 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Re: Joni and the loss of her Martin D-28 On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Susan E. McNamara wrote: > Great stuff on Joni's guitars, Simon. Thanks. What is the definitive story of what happened > to Joni's Martin? I've heard several versions, but I'm not sure which one is right. I am pretty > sure it was a Martin D-25 that was given to her by a soldier in 1967, right? > Boy, I would love me that guitar!!! :-) Sue, The following, from ACOUSTIC GUITAR Magazine - Aug. 1996, is the true story, confirmed by Joel Bernstein. Joni Mitchell has never quite gotten over the first guitar she loved and lost: a 1956 Martin D-28 she got circa 1966 from a marine captain stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. The guitar had accompanied him to Vietnam and was in his tent when it was hit with shrapnel. "There were two instruments and all this captain's stuff in there," Mitchell says. "When they cleared the wreckage, all that survived was this guitar. I don't know whether the explosion did something to the modules in the wood, but that guitar was a trooper, man." Mitchell played that D-28 on all her early albums. Before she recorded COURT And SPARK, it was damaged on an airline, and soon after it was stolen off a luggage carousel in Maui. Wistfully, she adds, "I've never found an acoustic that could compare with it." The sad thing is, that guitar is probably out there somewhere. Someone likely owns Joni's D-28 and doesn't have a clue to its history. Joel regrets not recording the Serial No. when he had the change. We'll never know. andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simonM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 21:57:56 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: re: Joni Guitar/strings I think this came from Simon's research:In 2003 Westwood Music offered -3- of Joni's guitars for sale via auctions on eBay. The following statement was included with the eBay item description: As Mitchell explored jazzier sounds in the late '70s, she turned to electric guitars. From 1979 until the mid-'80s, she performed with five George Benson model Ibanez guitars, which were set up by Joel Bernstein and Larry Cragg with a range of string gauges to accommodate her tunings. At that time, the Roland Jazz Chorus amp--which was invented, Mitchell says, so she could replicate her Hejira sound in performance--was an important component of her live sound. - --ACOUSTIC GUITAR, AUGUST 1996If so, it seems to indicate that her techs DID set up her guitars differently with different string gauges to accommodate different tunings. I wonder if this was done to facilitate ease of playing, control of sound, or to protect the instrument from stresses for which they were not built. It would also be interesting to know if they also had a few dreadnoughts similarly strung. Of course, since many of us here like to investigate her tunings and guitar transcriptions...I'd bet our instruments would appreciate the string gauge prescriptions for each tuning if they exist. Anyone in a position to hit Joel or Larry with the question?CC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 23:24:13 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni Guitar/Strings c Karma wrote > Subject: re: Joni Guitar/strings > > I think this came from Simon's research. In 2003 Westwood Music > offered -3- of Joni's guitars for sale via auctions on eBay. Oh, I wouldn't necessarily call it research. But thankx anyway. c Karma continued > The following statement was included with the eBay item description: > > As Mitchell explored jazzier sounds in the late '70s, she turned to electric guitars. > From 1979 until the mid-'80s, she performed with five George Benson model Ibanez > guitars, which were set up by Joel Bernstein and Larry Cragg with a range of string > gauges to accommodate her tunings. > - - - - - > If so, it seems to indicate that her techs ... > > ** DID set up her guitars differently with different string gauges to accommodate different tunings. ** > > I wonder if this was done to facilitate ease of playing, control of sound, or to protect > the instrument from stresses for which they were not built. It would also be interesting > to know if they also had a few dreadnoughts similarly strung. Of course, since many of > us here like to investigate her tunings and guitar transcriptions...I'd bet our instruments > would appreciate the string gauge prescriptions for each tuning if they exist. > Anyone in a position to hit Joel or Larry with the question?CC Yes that IS the case. We're talking about Joni's Tours in 1979 and 1983. One year there were -5- "George Benson Model Ibanez Guitars". The other year there were -6-. And No, I don't know which year was which. Joel will have to check his notes. He didn't remember either the last time the subject came up. Each guitar was set up with different String Gauges for different tunings, or different families of tunings. The slackness of certain tunings, and their resonances, becomes an issue with electric guitars in a way that does not occur with acoustic guitars. THAT's what the multiple guitar set up is all about. - - - - - - The 'Sunburst Ibanez' purchased by Peter Carney had a SetList still taped to the body with two songs listed as "Sharon" and "Love". That guitar was made in 1982 meaning it was used on the 1983 World Tour for two songs "Song For Sharon" and "Love". JMDL member Anita's guitar was made in 1978 so was available for both Tours, 1978 and 1983. Each guitar had a number (1-5, or 1-6) on the back of the head so it was easy to identify, and give Joni the correct guitar depending on the next song, or group of songs. Any further information will have to come from Joel Bernstein. In 2006 a SongBook he was working on was published prematurely, without his knowledge or permission, AND before he had completed his work. THIS SongBook discontinued, deleted and withdrawn from sale. Check out the comment from JMDL member Randy Remote. There was supposed to be a detailed essay explaining how Joni's guitars were set-up, the string gauges, and various other aspects of her tunings and how/why some have changed over the years as her voice AND vocal style evolved. - - - - - - Apparently this SongBook may yet be revised, corrected and once again Published. andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simonM ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #394 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe