From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #300 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, July 31 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 300 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Saskatoon kerfuffle [Betsy Blue ] Re: bigotry in Saskatchewan [Anita ] ACOY 2000 on NPR [Betsy Blue ] Re: Now all this crap [Stdoherty ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:46:13 -0700 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Saskatoon kerfuffle Thanks to all who have written eloquently on this topic. I just wanted to add that I understand the comment about Saskatoon being like the deep south in that the nonwhite population is large enough to be unavoidable and a threat to the whites. (The irony is obvious.) In other areas, people may not consider themselves racist because they have had fewer opportunities to realize their own discriminatory behavior or the benefits they have as members of a privileged class. I'm sure Joni is at least partially right about attitudes not changing quickly enough. In Cherokee Louise she says the runaway "can't even come to our house" as if she had expected better of her parents. Maybe they were the very kind of "progressive" people who weren't outwardly racist and associated with First Nations people. But they were still part of the establishment that felt it had higher moral character, when they were really just given better opportunities. Speculation. Well, who's to know? Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:29:11 +0100 From: Anita Subject: Re: bigotry in Saskatchewan Kate, I think your writing is courageous because it challenges us all to look at our own internalised racism. The issue that hits me in the face in middle England is our current attitudes to gypsies. A more derided or despised group of people it would be hard to find. I am a little informed about their position because my partner,Steph, led the inclusion course at a local university. She would talk about including people with disabilities, issues for gays and lesbians, issues that black kids face, being sensitive to the variety of Asian cultures etc. However, the lecture Steph would personally feel under attack and where the vitriol and hatred would erupt most was about including travellers and gypsies. They were ALL filthy, dirty people who would rob you of everything. At the end of one lecture about six years ago, she was approached by a young student teacher who asked to speak with her and told Steph that she was a gypsy. The young gypsy never told anyone else about her life for fear of being hated in all four years of her training, but she took Steph and I to great traveller fairs where we were able to share in her experience of not being served in pubs and being asked to leave a restaurant, as it was assumed we were travellers. Although as lesbians we have had a fair amount of abuse over the past thirty years, we are able to pass as middle class white straight women. I have experienced that as a great relief several times in my life. Not so easy to duck under the radar for many other "minority" groups. Anita On 30 Jul 2013, at 17:17, Kate Johnson wrote: > There is still terrible racism (particularly when it comes to the First > Nations) in this entire province, though we white people refuse to admit it. > Not only do we not WANT to see it in ourselves; it appears we CAN'T. Our good > intentions surely do not match with our bigotry, which is deep-down, built in. > We may think one way on the surface, but our automatic responses seem to come > from social attitudes that are quite different and deeply ingrained. > > We think we are just being "realistic" when we describe "Indians" as lazy, or > thieves, or drunks, or wife-beaters, or parents who don't take good care of > their children. But we DO think these things, in spite of knowing that they > can't possibly be true of every First Nations person, and knowing (alas, many > don't: they will still say, quite self-righteously, that First Nations people > bring these problems upon themselves and that if they would just be "more like > us" their lives would be just as comfy) that the huge social problems of First > Nations communities spring from government (and civilian; let's not kid > ourselves) actions and attitudes generations ago that are still affecting them > in the present. > > I don't know how things are in the city where you live, Rob, where there is a > high First Nations population, but where I live, I see informal segregation. > First Nations kids come to the schools in town, so you'd think "we" and "they" > would mix naturally; but no. When "we" go to a concert or community event, > there are NO First Nations people there. They do not work in the businesses in > town either, and because they have such a reputation for wrecking houses, many > landlords don't advertise vacancies publicly (because they can't legally > refuse to house a First Nations person), but instead advertise only by word of > mouth so it's easier for them to pick and choose their tenants. > > And whenever you read an RCMP (that's Canada's national police force) report > in the paper, the perpetrator of the crime almost invariably has a First > Nations surname. When you hear about a home break-in or a knifing or murder in > Saskatoon, it's often the same. It's no wonder white people have these bigoted > attitudes toward Native people, perhaps ... because people don't tend to look > too deeply behind these things, to the causes of these social problems. We > sure as hell don't take any responsibility for them. WE didn't do it; our > PARENTS didn't do it; our GRANDPARENTS didn't steal the First Nations land; it > was the GUMMINT!! But it was our grandparents, great-grandparents, etc, and by > extension US, who benefited from that theft and those terrible laws that were > made for the benefit of white settlers, to the detriment of the culture of the > First Nations. > > Bigoted people rarely admit they are bigoted. We think we are better than > that. And we want to be. But the prejudice IS there; we just don't see it in > ourselves. This is probably why folks are so pissed off about what Joni said. > > It's a very big subject and could use a lot more examination, that's for sure. > > Re the smalldeadanimals webpage: ugh. An embarrassment. Always has been. > > Kate in Saskatchewan > > > b?b > 1b.b?b > 1b.b?b > 1b. > Stubblejumpin'Gal > http://goldengrainfarm.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:27:37 -0700 From: Betsy Blue Subject: ACOY 2000 on NPR I just heard some of Joni's A Case of You, from the Both Sides Now album, on the In Your Ear segment of Tell Me More. The guest was an author named Benjamin something. The other two selections were Adele's Set Fire to the Rain and The Beatles' Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da. Anyone else catch this? After hearing his musical taste, I would like to check out his writing. He had me at "I love Joni Mitchell." Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 21:12:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Stdoherty Subject: Re: Now all this crap Now there's a good spin on it ... and of course you're absolutely right! You split tongued devil you. - -----Original Message----- From: Victor Johnson To: Stdoherty Cc: joni Sent: Tue, Jul 30, 2013 6:37 pm Subject: Now all this crap Seems perfect though, capturing the duality of everything, which is certainly always part of anything concerning Joni Mitchell. On Tuesday, July 30, 2013, Stdoherty wrote: It was cool for a while to have so much activity on the digest. So much positive press, Joni laughing, great tunes and well deserved accolades for the queen. And now all this crap. Wish it would go away. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #300 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe