From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #289 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, July 25 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 289 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Did Sting nick an idea? [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] Re: The Joni/Saskatoon debate continues [Catherine McKay ] Re: Podcast link [Catherine McKay ] RE: Podcast link ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell [Catherine McKay ] Bed's too big [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Ouch... [Les Irvin ] Joni/Chuck Mitchell's name [Sharon Watkins ] Re: Joni's stuff [kbhla@fastmail.fm] Joni's stuff [Shari Eaton ] Re: Bed's too big/ All I want [Anita ] Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell [Catherine McKay ] Re: New Library item: Hostility toward feminism blocks positive change [C] Big Yellow Taxi ! [Joe Jones ] Re: Another story about dissing S'Toon [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Joni biopic [David Marine ] Re: Another story about dissing S'Toon [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell [Gerald Kent ] RE: This simple line [Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com] Eastern Rain [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Podcast link [Robert Procyk ] Another story about dissing S'Toon [Catherine McKay ] New Library item: Joni Mitchell's habit of stirring controversy [TheStaff] Re: Ouch... [Dave Blackburn ] Re: Joni's stuff [Shari Eaton ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 20:18:43 -0400 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Did Sting nick an idea? Sting's name popped up in Sheila Weller's book. Reading this quote I wonder if Sting was familiar with Joni's song when he said >the bed's too big without you >the bed's too big without you >the bed's too big... >without Yo! What does the group know about Sting anyway? Jim L. > From: >> "the bed's too big, the frying pan's too wide".....(my old man)..> >> Yes, and again the way she sings "too wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide", expanding >> the 1-sylabble word over several beats to further emphasize the width. > > That is so vaudeville :) > "the bed's too big" ..another great example of setting a whole scene > with only 4 words ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 05:56:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The Joni/Saskatoon debate continues How did the issue of honouring Joni and her wanting her stuff back become linked? It's simple to me: it's her stuff, so she should get it back if she wants it. I've been reading and watching the articles about this, but I see this as two different issues that somehow became conflated. My understanding is that Joni's mother held onto the stuff and, either when she went into the retirement home or when she died, a friend of the family was holding onto it. Maybe I'm missing something. Joni's back on the "honour" thing again, after sort of apologizing for that remark at Luminato. And being her usual outspoken self. >________________________________ > From: Shari Eaton >To: Robert Procyk >Cc: "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:19:53 PM >Subject: Re: The Joni/Saskatoon debate continues > > >Outrageous. Can we put together a petition??!! There must be a way to get her stuff back to her. For instance, this isn't honoring (regarding her with great respect) her so it goes against the nature of the act. > > >On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Robert Procyk wrote: > >> http://www.panow.com/node/362732 - looks like they are going ahead anyway. >> >> There's a podcast of the phone-in discussion on newstalk650.com >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 10:10:21 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Joni's mum & stuff And upon receiving the external validation immediately dismisses it because it invariably is given by someone who doesn't get her! On Jul 25, 2013, at 8:52 AM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > I haven't finished the Joni sections yet, but here is what I get: for most of her adult life, Joni has been really sad, and constantly seeking external validation. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 06:30:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Podcast link HE didn't annoy me nearly as much as I expected him to. Bonus: the clip is only 60 seconds long, long enough for my short attention span. Lord help me, I agree with the guy. I'm mystified as to how Joni's "approval" seems necessary for any honour, which leads back to the whole film bio issue we talked about a few weeks ago. I guess it would be nice to have the person's approval but there are unauthorized biographies galore. And yeah, most of them are crap - but how many biographies, even autobiographies, can be completely factual? It's the old situation of how many sides there are to a story: yours, mine and the truth. The "truth" which would have to be completely factual, not coloured by personal perceptions, and therefore boring as hell, kind of like history class back in school. I guess if the person is still alive, there's potential for a law suit, definitely for embarassment and a lot of trash-talkin'. Anyone wanting to listen to the podcast - it's the one from July 25 - right at the top now, but probably not by tomorrow. >________________________________ > From: Robert Procyk >To: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:42:59 PM >Subject: Podcast link > > >Here's the link to the podcast. Haven't listened yet. Warning: John Gormley is the Rush Limbaugh of Saskatoon. > >http://www.newstalk650.com/ckom-podcasts > > >Rob > >Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 14:29:59 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Podcast link I listened to the 25-minute call-in show, too. I could see how this guy could be a right-wing windbag, but I also agree with him. He was spot on about Joni's place as a world renowned composer and artist, and didn't stand for people dissing her. He knew a lot about her, too. I loved the truck driver who called in and said Shania Twain's hometown is like a shrine to her!!! What the heck! Ithaca at least has an annual Joni Mitchell Tribute show at the local community arts building, can't they do something like that? Our home town boys are Carl Sagan and Rod Serling! Come do the Solar System walk sometime! :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 9:30 AM To: Robert Procyk; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Podcast link HE didn't annoy me nearly as much as I expected him to. Bonus: the clip is only 60 seconds long, long enough for my short attention span. Lord help me, I agree with the guy. I'm mystified as to how Joni's "approval" seems necessary for any honour, which leads back to the whole film bio issue we talked about a few weeks ago. I guess it would be nice to have the person's approval but there are unauthorized biographies galore. And yeah, most of them are crap - but how many biographies, even autobiographies, can be completely factual? It's the old situation of how many sides there are to a story: yours, mine and the truth. The "truth" which would have to be completely factual, not coloured by personal perceptions, and therefore boring as hell, kind of like history class back in school. I guess if the person is still alive, there's potential for a law suit, definitely for embarassment and a lot of trash-talkin'. Anyone wanting to listen to the podcast - it's the one from July 25 - right at the top now, but probably not by tomorrow. >________________________________ > From: Robert Procyk >To: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:42:59 PM >Subject: Podcast link > > >Here's the link to the podcast. Haven't listened yet. Warning: John Gormley is the Rush Limbaugh of Saskatoon. > >http://www.newstalk650.com/ckom-podcasts > > >Rob > >Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 06:18:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell Oh, I believe she did say them. Joni doesn't mince words, does she? It's funny to read some of the responses on the CBC website. I quite enjoyed the Chuck interview too. Glad to hear his point of view after all this time. And let's face it - it has been quite a long time, and time changes many things. Chuck is much more diplomatic than Joni! Interesting how he seems to be the one that looks at life from both sides. On the other hand, thinking about how Joni spoke of her parents ("Papa brought home the sugar; Mama taught me the deeper meaning"), I suspect that Myrtle, at least, was very outspoken and opinionated, so you can see where it comes from. I think back to some of the things my parents would sometimes say that made me cringe, but I think I do it too and embarass my kids and the older I get, the more outspoken I get about things that probably don't even matter that much. >________________________________ > From: "kbhla@fastmail.fm" >To: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:45:45 PM >Subject: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell > > >From the various articles it sounds like Joni is just weary of the >various local tribute projects wanting her input but ultimately going >nowhere. I did find it a little odd that the "family friend" was >supposed to be only temporarily keeping her personal childhood/teenage >possessions, diaries, Myrtle's scrapbooks, etc., but seemed to be almost >stubbornly ignoring Joni's requests that her stuff be returned. Liked >that she mentioned several universities being interested in her stuff >and hope she decides on one in the Los Angeles area ;-) Hoping she >really didn't say some of those cutting comments on Saskatoon. > >Also was very surprised by the interview with Chuck Mitchell. Seems >like a very bright, witty and talented guy. More impressive than I had >imagined. Can kind of see that he and Joni were mismatched but he was >decent about her in the interview. > >Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:22:00 -0600 From: Robert Procyk Subject: More Joni/Stoon chat http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/saskatchewan/story/2013/07/15/sk-morning-chat-1234.html Dunno if they will replay this later or if it's still on but here's the link. Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 07:49:18 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Bed's too big "the bed's too big, the frying pan's too wide".....(my old man)..> Yes, and again the way she sings "too wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide", expanding the 1-sylabble word over several beats to further emphasize the width. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:35:57 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Ouch... I take it this is a right-wing website? Joni is getting slammed... http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/a-modest-propos-2.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 21:08:25 -0500 From: Sharon Watkins Subject: Joni/Chuck Mitchell's name "Joni Mitchell" flows better than "Joni Anderson", but I agree that keeping Mitchell's name was probably a business decision. Joni had already gained "brand recognition" after performing as Chuck and Joni Mitchell, so keeping Chuck's name kept the momentum going. Going it alone and scraping for money in the early days, it made perfect sense. Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 19:37:16 -0700 From: kbhla@fastmail.fm Subject: Re: Joni's stuff I agree with Catherine that the issues of "Joni's stuff" and a tribute to her are two totally different topics that seem to have been conflated by the media and commentators. Joni's stuff is in the hands of a family friend who has no evident official power to turn it over to a museum, library, etc. in Saskatoon or elsewhere. It sounds like maybe the family friend wanted to be the "keeper of the keys" and get some acknowledgement for knowing Joni, storing her stuff and perhaps getting some notoriety for turning it over for some future projects. If I were Joni, I would be alternately amused and pissed off that the friend was holding my stuff hostage! I know she is always outspoken but really wish this time that she did not completely and generally diss all of her hometown people. Seemed like a gross overreaction to me, but I would be taking the head off the friend who wouldn't give my stuff back! Kakki > If Joni's real goal is to get back her stuff, It's kind of genius of her > to call Saskatoon bigoted and unworldly. Now the people of Saskatoon have > spiteful feelings and dismiss the idea of her being honored. "Great!" > She's probably thinking. "Now there isn't a reason to hijack my personal > stuff! Give it here." > > Not that she planned it in a manipulative way, but I hope it works. > > Shari ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 19:03:27 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Joni's stuff If Joni's real goal is to get back her stuff, It's kind of genius of her to call Saskatoon bigoted and unworldly. Now the people of Saskatoon have spiteful feelings and dismiss the idea of her being honored. "Great!" She's probably thinking. "Now there isn't a reason to hijack my personal stuff! Give it here." Not that she planned it in a manipulative way, but I hope it works. Shari ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 13:02:50 +0100 From: Anita Subject: Re: Bed's too big/ All I want "All I really want our Love to do Is to bring out the best in me And in you (too)" What greater thing can there be? Anita On 25 Jul 2013, at 12:49, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > "the bed's too big, the frying pan's too wide".....(my old man)..> > > Yes, and again the way she sings "too wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide", expanding > the 1-sylabble word over several beats to further emphasize the width. > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:01:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell I wonder why? Because she liked the sound of those names together? Because she was already getting kind of known as Mitchell? Because she was trying to protect her parents by putting some distance between their name and hers? >________________________________ > From: Anita >To: Gerald Kent >Cc: Catherine McKay ; "kbhla@fastmail.fm" ; "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:40:55 AM >Subject: Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell > > >That was a super moment wasn't it? And you're right, Catherineit's good to get a glimpse of Chuck and his life. It's interesting that she always kept his name. That must be strange for him >Anita ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 15:12:33 +0100 From: Anita Subject: Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell On the other hand, thinking about how Joni > spoke of her parents ("Papa brought home the sugar; Mama taught me the deeper > meaning") How can this possibly be so? Don't forget this is the woman who told Joni that she really liked "Dancing Clown"! Just thought - maybe that IS the deeper meaning and Hejira is shallow. None of this Why am I here? Or What is it all about? Put on them dancing shoes and boogie while you can and have a laugh. Maybe Mama Myrtle at a point. Maybe that is the deeper meaning :-)) Anita (leaving JMDL to join 7DDL- 70s Disco Discussion List - to start thread on Freak Out and Chic. Nile Rogers I love you) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 18:39:03 -0600 From: Robert Procyk Subject: The Joni/Saskatoon debate continues http://www.panow.com/node/362732 - looks like they are going ahead anyway. There's a podcast of the phone-in discussion on newstalk650.com Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:00:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell I think Joni may have been a bit sarcastic with the "deeper meaning." She lingers over the eeeeee in deeper, almost like a bit of a sarcastic laugh, as well as a soul-like melissma going on there. What really is the *deeper* meaning? "Mama .... believes in cleaning... She's always cleaning. Mama thinks she spoiled me (rotten). She blames herself." Myrtle, a constant cleaner and coverer-up of things, was likely offended and embarassed by Joni's openness about love and sex and her lovers and her family. In such a situation, a song like "Dancin' clown" would offer some light-hearted relief from that openness (and the deeper meaning.) What is the deeper meaning? I come from a repressed family (I betcha a lot of us did) where people didn't like to talk about feelings or anything that went beyond what they considered the norm. People got married, had kids, stayed within the law, didn't do anything to embarass themselves or the family. We talked as little as necessary about anything deeper or darker or scarier. Those were the days when no one talked about sexual abuse, or sex for that matter, or talked about these things only as little as necessary and then moved on to factual things or foolish things. You were supposed to just do your duty and shut up about it, not complain about your problems or your worries. To do so was a sign of weakness. If your kid did something wrong, it was the parents' fault, even when the kids were well past the time-out go-to-your-room phase. Judging by the comments I see on news websites, it's pretty obvious many people still think that way. So, you skirted around issues by making jokes and laughing at silly things. I think Joni has had difficulty putting all that behind her. Years later, in "Happiness is the best facelift," she says, I shouldn't have come She made me pay For gleaming with Donald down her street She put blame on him And shame on me She made it all seem so tawdry and cheap [...] she introduced us Oh, but she regrets that now Shacked up downtown Making love without a license Same old sacred cow She said, "Did you come home to disgrace us?" After all this time, Myrtle is still apparently concerned that Joni, being with Donald and not married, is going to shame the family. At this point, Joni is in her 50s. >________________________________ > From: Anita >To: Catherine McKay >Cc: "kbhla@fastmail.fm" ; "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:12:33 AM >Subject: Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell > > >On the other hand, thinking about how Joni >> spoke of her parents ("Papa brought home the sugar; Mama taught me the deeper >> meaning") > >How can this possibly be so? Don't forget this is the woman who told Joni that she really liked "Dancing Clown"! > >Just thought - maybe that IS the deeper meaning and Hejira is shallow. None of this Why am I here? Or What is it all about? Put on them dancing shoes and boogie while you can and have a laugh. Maybe Mama Myrtle at a point. Maybe that is the deeper meaning :-)) >Anita (leaving JMDL to join 7DDL- 70s Disco Discussion List - to start thread on Freak Out and Chic. Nile Rogers I love you) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 13:09:39 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Bed's too big From: > "the bed's too big, the frying pan's too wide".....(my old man)..> > Yes, and again the way she sings "too wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide", expanding > the 1-sylabble word over several beats to further emphasize the width. That is so vaudeville :) "the bed's too big" ..another great example of setting a whole scene with only 4 words. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 10:31:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: New Library item: Hostility toward feminism blocks positive change I think I understand Joni's take on feminism. Those of us that really want to be individuals don't like being lumped into a group and labeled. Plus there is George Carlin's take which, while funny is also pretty reasonable.. "Feminists want to control your language. Feminists want to tell you how to talk. And their not alone. Their not alone. I'm not picking on the feminists. They got a lot of company in this country. There's a lot of groups, a lot of institutions in this country want to control your language. Tell you what you can say and what you can't say. As I said, I got nothing against the feminists. In fact, I happen to agree with most of the feminist philosophy I have read. But, when it comes to changing the language, I think they make some good points, because we do think in language and so the quality of our thoughts and ideas could only be as good as the quality of our language. So maybe some of this patriarcho shit ought to go away. I think mankind ought to be human kind, but they take it too far, they take themselves too seriously, they exaggerate. They want me to call that thing in the street a personhole cover. I think that's taking it a little bit too far. You know what I mean? So...so I think it's an exaggeration and I like to piss off any group that take's itself a little bit too seriously. And it does not take a lot of imagination to piss off a feminist." - -Clint ________________________________ From: "TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com" To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:55 PM Subject: New Library item: Hostility toward feminism blocks positive change Title: Hostility toward feminism blocks positive change Publication: The Manitoban Date: 2013.7.22 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2646 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 16:02:04 +0100 From: Joe Jones Subject: Big Yellow Taxi ! Quote by British comedian Alan Partridge. *On traffic* That was Big Yellow Taxi by Joni Mitchell, a song in which Joni complains they 'Paved paradise to put up a parking lot', a measure which actually would have alleviated traffic congestion on the outskirts of paradise, something which Joni singularly fails to point out, perhaps because it doesn't quite fit in with her blinkered view of the world. Nevertheless, nice song. - -- - -- Joe Jones +44 7831 914094 np - How The West Was Won - Led Zeppelin. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:13:45 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Another story about dissing S'Toon And is usually the case, the comments are the most entertaining part... "Saskatoon isn't a bigoted community. Just because the police were stripping Indians of clothes, driving them to the outskirts, and leaving them exposed in the middle of winter to die doesn't mean the community is bigoted. Sheesh people are so sensitive these days. I am sure the police didn't even know those were Indians they were killing." Bob From: Catherine McKay To: Jonilist Date: 07/25/2013 03:54 PM Subject: Another story about dissing S'Toon Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org http://ca.omg.yahoo.com/blogs/north-stars/joni-mitchell-sparks-controversy-saskatoon-151617906.html - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 22:14:12 -0400 From: David Marine Subject: Joni biopic Hey Catherine, You're right, I don't think there's anything that Joni could do to kill the movie, but she could withhold the rights to use any of her music. WIthout any of the music, they probably would have a really tough time getting the project greenlighted. Best, David On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:32 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 06:30:08 -0700 (PDT) > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: Podcast link > > HE didn't annoy me nearly as much as I expected him to. Bonus: the clip is only 60 seconds long, long enough for my short attention span. Lord help me, I agree with the guy. I'm mystified as to how Joni's "approval" seems necessary for any honour, which leads back to the whole film bio issue we talked about a few weeks ago. I guess it would be nice to have the person's approval but there are unauthorized biographies galore. And yeah, most of them are crap - but how many biographies, even autobiographies, can be completely factual? It's the old situation of how many sides there are to a story: yours, mine and the truth. The "truth" which would have to be completely factual, not coloured by personal perceptions, and therefore boring as hell, kind of like history class back in school. I guess if the person is still alive, there's potential for a law suit, definitely for embarassment and a lot of trash-talkin'. > > Anyone wanting to listen to the podcast - it's the one from July 25 - right at the top now, but probably not by tomorrow. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 14:49:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Another story about dissing S'Toon I know. I always read them, looking for the witty, the sarcastic and the absolutely bizarre. >________________________________ > From: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" >To: Catherine McKay >Cc: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 4:13:45 PM >Subject: Re: Another story about dissing S'Toon > > > >And is usually the case, the comments are the most entertaining part... > >"Saskatoon isn't a bigoted community. Just because the police were stripping Indians of clothes, driving them to the outskirts, and leaving them exposed in the middle of winter to die doesn't mean the community is bigoted. Sheesh people are so sensitive these days. I am sure the police didn't even know those were Indians they were killing." > >Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 19:13:28 -0600 From: Robert Procyk Subject: CBC Sask article http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/saskatchewan/story/2013/07/24/saskatoon-mitchell-memorial-130724.html Oooh it's hitting the fan. Will chime in with my Saskatchewan two cents later. Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 11:01:43 -0400 From: Gerald Kent Subject: Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell My favorite part of the interview was when Chuck high fived the interviewer and referred to him as a "fellow stepping stone". That said volumes! Sent from my iPad On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > Oh, I believe she did say them. Joni doesn't mince words, does she? It's funny > to read some of the responses on the CBC website. > > I quite enjoyed the Chuck > interview too. Glad to hear his point of view after all this time. And let's > face it - it has been quite a long time, and time changes many things. Chuck > is much more diplomatic than Joni! Interesting how he seems to be the one that > looks at life from both sides. On the other hand, thinking about how Joni > spoke of her parents ("Papa brought home the sugar; Mama taught me the deeper > meaning"), I suspect that Myrtle, at least, was very outspoken and > opinionated, so you can see where it comes from. I think back to some of the > things my parents would sometimes say that made me cringe, but I think I do it > too and embarass my kids and the older I get, the more outspoken I get about > things that probably don't even matter that much. >> ________________________________ >> From: "kbhla@fastmail.fm" > >> To: joni@smoe.org >> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 > 11:45:45 PM >> Subject: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell >> >> >> From the > various articles it sounds like Joni is just weary of the >> various local > tribute projects wanting her input but ultimately going >> nowhere. I did find > it a little odd that the "family friend" was >> supposed to be only temporarily > keeping her personal childhood/teenage >> possessions, diaries, Myrtle's > scrapbooks, etc., but seemed to be almost >> stubbornly ignoring Joni's requests > that her stuff be returned. Liked >> that she mentioned several universities > being interested in her stuff >> and hope she decides on one in the Los Angeles > area ;-) Hoping she >> really didn't say some of those cutting comments on > Saskatoon. >> >> Also was very surprised by the interview with Chuck Mitchell. > Seems >> like a very bright, witty and talented guy. More impressive than I had >> imagined. Can kind of see that he and Joni were mismatched but he was >> decent > about her in the interview. >> >> Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:40:55 +0100 From: Anita Subject: Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell That was a super moment wasn't it? And you're right, Catherineit's good to get a glimpse of Chuck and his life. It's interesting that she always kept his name. That must be strange for him Anita On 25 Jul 2013, at 16:01, Gerald Kent wrote: > My favorite part of the interview was when Chuck high fived the interviewer and referred to him as a "fellow stepping stone". That said volumes! > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > >> Oh, I believe she did say them. Joni doesn't mince words, does she? It's funny >> to read some of the responses on the CBC website. >> >> I quite enjoyed the Chuck >> interview too. Glad to hear his point of view after all this time. And let's >> face it - it has been quite a long time, and time changes many things. Chuck >> is much more diplomatic than Joni! Interesting how he seems to be the one that >> looks at life from both sides. On the other hand, thinking about how Joni >> spoke of her parents ("Papa brought home the sugar; Mama taught me the deeper >> meaning"), I suspect that Myrtle, at least, was very outspoken and >> opinionated, so you can see where it comes from. I think back to some of the >> things my parents would sometimes say that made me cringe, but I think I do it >> too and embarass my kids and the older I get, the more outspoken I get about >> things that probably don't even matter that much. >>> ________________________________ >>> From: "kbhla@fastmail.fm" >> >>> To: joni@smoe.org >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 >> 11:45:45 PM >>> Subject: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell >>> >>> >>> From the >> various articles it sounds like Joni is just weary of the >>> various local >> tribute projects wanting her input but ultimately going >>> nowhere. I did find >> it a little odd that the "family friend" was >>> supposed to be only temporarily >> keeping her personal childhood/teenage >>> possessions, diaries, Myrtle's >> scrapbooks, etc., but seemed to be almost >>> stubbornly ignoring Joni's requests >> that her stuff be returned. Liked >>> that she mentioned several universities >> being interested in her stuff >>> and hope she decides on one in the Los Angeles >> area ;-) Hoping she >>> really didn't say some of those cutting comments on >> Saskatoon. >>> >>> Also was very surprised by the interview with Chuck Mitchell. >> Seems >>> like a very bright, witty and talented guy. More impressive than I had >>> imagined. Can kind of see that he and Joni were mismatched but he was >>> decent >> about her in the interview. >>> >>> Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:31:23 -0400 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Subject: Re: Joni Saskatoon debate and Chuck Mitchell i will go with b), "she was already getting kind of known as Mitchell". She was building an empire, one poker chip at a time. The boyfriends were a different kind of poker chip, useful as foils for exploring new musical textures or laughing it all away. As a kid, she was the ringmaster, the taskmaster, the manager who assigned roles to the other kids. She is often described as vulnerable but that is not the same as warm, kind, and thoughtful. Jim > McKay asked: > I wonder why? Because she liked the sound of those names together? Because she was already getting kind of known as Mitchell? Because she was trying to protect her parents by putting some distance between their name and hers? > ___ >> From: Anita >> It's interesting that she always kept his name. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 22:34:03 -0400 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Graham's camera Against my better judgement, I'm reading Sheila Weller's book. I think I understand what Kathryn Herrity meant when she was taken aback by some of the intimate things that Joni's (many) confidants told Sheila. (Hi Kakki.) Seems like many dim years ago, I read that Graham gave Joni a camera. Actually, a VERY good camera. A German-made Leicaflex 35mm SLR. Compared to the svelte Honeywell Pentax Spotmatic that I wanted, the Leicaflex was a heavy, expensive beast. The lenses were shockingly expensive and none of the aftermarket companies made anything to fit it. It was out of my league, like Britt Ekland. Sheila reminds me that our Joan was still "fairly" committed to Nash when she went to Crete. It was from Crete that Joni buried the relationship, cabling, "If you hold sand too tightly, it will slip through your fingers." Now I'm thinking that maybe the camera that she left behind was the Leicaflex. Maybe she wanted to shed it because it was a gift from Nash; she was rebelling against it. I always felt bad for Nash, but this theory adds another layer to the pity. Both the girl and the camera were un-imaginably precious, and the poor son of a bitch lost them both to a homeless drifter named Carey. Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 20:27:49 -0400 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Re: Joni's mum & stuff I don't think she was seeking approval from the audience in front of her at any one time. She wondered aloud, "Looking for something; what can it be?" She was seeking something that would forever elude her. Myrtle's approval. Jim L On Jul 25, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > And upon receiving the external validation immediately dismisses it because it invariably is given by someone who doesn't get her! > > On Jul 25, 2013, at 8:52 AM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > >> I haven't finished the Joni sections yet, but here is what I get: for most of her adult life, Joni has been really sad, and constantly seeking external validation. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 15:51:34 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: New Library item: 'I don't want to be honoured' Wow, I am flummoxed every time I read more about this whole Saskatoon clusterfluck. Joni has reacted in true Joni fashion to this nonsense: "There are so many things I want to do, that I should be doing, without getting sidetracked into these dubious and eventually nonexistent honours." "Saskatoon has always been an extremely bigoted community. It's like the deep south ... People don't get me there. They don't get my ideas. They just look at me like I'm famous. That's a minor part of it." Word. I would love to see this stuff. Hey, I'm a researcher at Cornell ... send me your stuff Joni!!! :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email:B sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:55 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: New Library item: 'I don't want to be honoured' Title: 'I don't want to be honoured' Publication: Saskatoon StarPhoenix Date: 2013.7.24 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2647 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:11:58 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: This simple line I always found "will you still love me when I call you up when I get back to town?" to be disarming in its simplicity; No artifice, irony, clever wordplay, erudite allusions - just a simple feeling anyone could relate to. She knows how to turn the "art" tap on and off as needed. Night Ride Home has similarities I think: "I love the man beside me, we love the open road." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 14:41:24 -0400 From: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Subject: RE: This simple line Court and Spark is filled with so many of those same images and places you described Bob. One that stands out for me is "Car on a Hill" ----- bHe makes friends easy - hebs not like me / I watch for judgement anxiously / now where in the city can that boy beb The image of being in a new relationship and waiting for that person to show up and feeling so vulnerable and insecure until they do......I think we have all been there in at that moment... "It always seems so righteous at the start ..... When there's so much laughter ......When there's so much spark......When there's so much sweetness in the dark" Perfect description of the early stages of the magic associated with a new relationship and the euphoria and sweetness of experiencing a lover for the first time...... - - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:47 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: This simple line Because I am exposed to and listen to so many covers of Joni's songs, I get to where I'm not necessarily locked into Joni's version of the song (particularly with everything pre-Court & Spark that I didn't really hear until mach later). Anyway, I always listen closely to see if a vocalist tweaks a lyric, changes words, genders, etc and such. In doing so, I often hear a lyric that strikes me, even the ones that sing the exact same words as Joni. The past 2-3 weeks the one that keeps going through my head is this one from "All I Want": "I want to be the one that you want to see" Now, I adore a lyric with unique words and images, such as "I crawl like a viper through these suburban streets, make love to these women, languid and bittersweet', and of course Joni has a plethora of them, most of "Furry" and the entire Hejira album in fact, but the brutal and honest simplicity of the above line really pulls me in. Because we've all been in that situation, maybe at a party or some gathering, and there are people there that you want to see, people that you're lukewarm about, and people that you DON'T want to see. I have people in all three categories and have also been in all three I'm sure. Being the person that "you want to see" is a special place to be. Joni captures that feeling perfectly with this line simply by stating the stark blunt truth. I suppose that's the beauty with most of Blue though, isn't it? My 2 cents on a Tuesday morning. Bob . - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 17:03:57 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Eastern Rain Another song with those weird minor chords is "Eastern Rain". I think that Christina/Henning interpreted that one.> They did, on their "Treasures of Joni Mitchell" CD which is certainly a must have for those of us who LOVE those original unreleased songs that Joni has; sadly it is currently unavailable. It was first covered by Fairport Convention in 1968, as were a number of her songs. A band called The Lazy Eyes also released a version in 2004 that's very interesting. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 18:42:59 -0600 From: Robert Procyk Subject: Podcast link Here's the link to the podcast. Haven't listened yet. Warning: John Gormley is the Rush Limbaugh of Saskatoon. http://www.newstalk650.com/ckom-podcasts Rob Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:42:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Another story about dissing S'Toon http://ca.omg.yahoo.com/blogs/north-stars/joni-mitchell-sparks-controversy-saskatoon-151617906.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 11:52:44 -0400 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Joni's mum & stuff Anita- There is some info about Joni's mother in Sheila Weller's book. Nash recalls some things from visiting her parents. I can't think of anything that is positive. The book is a bit trashy but not as bad as I expected and I learned lots so far. McMath and Myrtle are not portrayed in a positive light but almost everyone else, including all of the boyfriends along the way, seem like nice, supportive, talented people. Sheila thinks they were all good looking men. What we don't learn is why she chewed them up and spit them out. I haven't finished the Joni sections yet, but here is what I get: for most of her adult life, Joni has been really sad, and constantly seeking external validation. Time and again, Weller talks about how happy Joni was with a new relationship, and then, suddenly, Joni sends him packing. Don Alias is a case in point. If I remember right, he stayed home when Joni went to the east coast. She implored him to fly out and stay with her. When he got there, he felt like Mr. Mitchell, and couldn't stand it. He went back home and she immediately called up one of her ex boyfriends and he flew out there right away. Sheila said that within 24 hours, Joni told him to collect his stuff and get out. I think Lowell George said it best: "Cold, Cold, Cold". Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:22:55 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Joni's mum & stuff Jim said: "McMath and Myrtle are not portrayed in a positive light but almost everyone else, including all of the boyfriends along the way, seem like nice, supportive, talented people. Sheila thinks they were all good looking men." Sue says: Did you skip the part about Jackson Browne? Probably the most wrenching part of the story for me. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:53 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Joni's mum & stuff Anita- There is some info about Joni's mother in Sheila Weller's book. Nash recalls some things from visiting her parents. I can't think of anything that is positive. The book is a bit trashy but not as bad as I expected and I learned lots so far. McMath and Myrtle are not portrayed in a positive light but almost everyone else, including all of the boyfriends along the way, seem like nice, supportive, talented people. Sheila thinks they were all good looking men. What we don't learn is why she chewed them up and spit them out. I haven't finished the Joni sections yet, but here is what I get: for most of her adult life, Joni has been really sad, and constantly seeking external validation. Time and again, Weller talks about how happy Joni was with a new relationship, and then, suddenly, Joni sends him packing. Don Alias is a case in point. If I remember right, he stayed home when Joni went to the east coast. She implored him to fly out and stay with her. When he got there, he felt like Mr. Mitchell, and couldn't stand it. He went back home and she immediately called up one of her ex boyfriends and he flew out there right away. Sheila said that within 24 hours, Joni told him to collect his stuff and get out. I think Lowell George said it best: "Cold, Cold, Cold". Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 08:25:50 -0600 (MDT) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New Library item: Joni Mitchell's habit of stirring controversy Title: Joni Mitchell's habit of stirring controversy Publication: Saskatoon StarPhoenix Date: 2013.7.25 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2651 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 18:55:51 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Ouch... Boyas if to prove Joni's point perfectly. I love how some of the brilliant readers think that she is trying to be honored with a statue in Saskatoon and she should just pay for it herself, the goddamn environmentalist hippie. Who would want fame? On Jul 25, 2013, at 3:35 PM, Les Irvin wrote: > I take it this is a right-wing website? Joni is getting slammed... > http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/a-modest-propos-2.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 19:57:44 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: Joni's stuff Just guessing but it seems ol Sassy Toon doesn't have the budget to honor her. This is a workaround, this stealing her stuff business. The items of value are already available. By asking for her input through the years they keep suggesting that she pay for the tribute. That she get involved somehow because they don't have the purse for it. I think they're very much intertwined. On Jul 25, 2013, at 7:37 PM, kbhla@fastmail.fm wrote: > I agree with Catherine that the issues of "Joni's stuff" and a tribute > to her are two totally different topics that seem to have been conflated > by the media and commentators. Joni's stuff is in the hands of a family > friend who has no evident official power to turn it over to a museum, > library, etc. in Saskatoon or elsewhere. It sounds like maybe the > family friend wanted to be the "keeper of the keys" and get some > acknowledgement for knowing Joni, storing her stuff and perhaps getting > some notoriety for turning it over for some future projects. If I were > Joni, I would be alternately amused and pissed off that the friend was > holding my stuff hostage! I know she is always outspoken but really > wish this time that she did not completely and generally diss all of her > hometown people. Seemed like a gross overreaction to me, but I would be > taking the head off the friend who wouldn't give my stuff back! > > Kakki > >> If Joni's real goal is to get back her stuff, It's kind of genius of her >> to call Saskatoon bigoted and unworldly. Now the people of Saskatoon have >> spiteful feelings and dismiss the idea of her being honored. "Great!" >> She's probably thinking. "Now there isn't a reason to hijack my personal >> stuff! Give it here." >> >> Not that she planned it in a manipulative way, but I hope it works. >> >> Shari ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #289 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe