From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #247 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, June 26 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 247 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Pronunciations [Bob Muller ] RE: Furry [Michel BYRNE ] RE: Furry [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] Re: Furry Sings The Blues [Ange T ] Furry- Why now? [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] Re: Furry Sings The Blues [Clint Norwood ] CBC broadcast schedule [Les Irvin ] Re: Furry Sings The Blues [Catherine McKay ] Re: Paul Simon [Catherine McKay ] RE: Pronunciations ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Joni, Dylan, Paul Simon, etc. [David Marine ] Re: Furry Sings The Blues [Catherine McKay ] RE: Furry Sings The Blues ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Paul Simon [Michel BYRNE ] Re: Paul Simon [Dave Blackburn ] Re: VIDEO: Joni: The Creative Odyssey of Joni Mitchell [Dave Blackburn <] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #835 [Catherine McKay ] Re: Furry- Why now? [Michael Flaherty ] Re: CBC broadcast schedule [Michael Flaherty ] Pronunciations [Betsy Blue ] Re: Furry Sings The Blues [Clint Norwood ] Re: Squelched? [Lori Renee Fye ] Re: Squelched? [Bob Muller ] Re: "Squelched" chatter [Catherine McKay ] Re: Questions regarding Furry Sings The Blues [Moni Kellermann ] Joni and Rufus and Jorn, oh my! [Catherine McKay ] Re: Squelched? [Phyliss S Ward ] Re: Squelched? [Anita G ] RE: Furry Sings the Blues? ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Questions regarding Furry Sings The Blues [Dave Blackburn ] Re: Mad Men BSN [Betsy Blue ] 1995 Billboard Century Award [Vincenzo Mancini ] RE: Questions regarding Furry Sings The Blues ["Scott Johnson" Subject: Re: Pronunciations As many times as I've skipped over that one (plus I'm a Spanish speaker not a French one) I'm probably not the best choice. :-) Bob ________________________________ From: Susan E. McNamara To: Dave Blackburn ; Betsy Blue Cc: "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 5:13 PM Subject: RE: Pronunciations Hey don't forget Cherchez la femme from Dancin Clown. Have no idea if she is pronouncing that right!!! Bob? :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Dave Blackburn Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 2:09 PM To: Betsy Blue Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Pronunciations > I'd place a wager that "avez-vous un allumette?" was one of Joni's > first French phrases. She doesn't seem to have any trouble with that one. > > Betsy Except that the "s" in "vous" IS pronounced when followed by a vowel, which she doesn't do. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 21:35:18 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: RE: Furry Just to add a small note to everything that's been said about that great song: in the Luminato version, Joni adds a line (when quoting, or imitating, Ol' Furry): 'I can play in Spanish tuning too' (or something to that effect). One of her own memories was that Furry took offence when she tried to draw him out on the subject of open tunings, as he thought she was implying he couldn't play in standard tuning. So her new version brings in a bit more of the drama from their meeting. Apart from all the qualities already mentioned which make that song so great, I'd add its lyrical structure (cinematic descriptions of Beale St in the first half of every verse, and cameos of Ol' Furry in the second half), and also that utter clarity at the end of the song, in so few words, about the unbridgeable economic divide between the millionaire rock star and the impoverished blues player. I'd like to think Furry (and Jenny!) were given some kind of financial thanks by Joni... Michel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 18:28:19 -0400 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: RE: Furry I read an interview somewhere, many dim years ago, with Joni about this visit. She said that they took appropriate gifts with them, wanting to show some respect and engender a fun time. It might have been smoke and wine, but, given the period, it might have been cocaine too. She seemed deliberately cagey about the gifts. Now that I've read that a cop drove her to see him, I'm not sure at all. BTW, she changed his name slightly. Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 07:40:50 +1000 From: Ange T Subject: Re: Furry Sings The Blues Clint - thanks so much for taking the time to dive into this thread with me. Loved the photos of Furry and the info you provided. And Stewart (or is it Simon? Sorry if I've got your name wrong!) wow - just read the Rolling Stone article - you are a gem for sending that link! The last line of the interview, quoting Furry, was PURE GOLD: >> "Now I know I ain't a star," he says, reaching for his glass and winking with a wise old grin "But I sure might be a moon." I imagine Joni would have 'stolen' that line off him if he'd said that the day they met...it's brilliant! How could any songwriter be in the company of somebody with such personality and NOT want to steal a little from them? The question is - is it stealing? Or is it just great songwriting...to be so overwhelmed by a character that you can pour their personality into rhyming lines. Does any songwriter really owe anyone anything for taking a little piece of their soul and putting it in a song? I had to laugh at her manager, also quoted in the article: >> "She really enjoyed meeting him, and wrote about her impressions of the meeting, He did tell her that he didn't like her, but we can't pay him royalties for that. I don't pay royalties to everybody who says they don't like me. I'd go broke" The songwriter within me is feeling kinda inspired....maybe I need to write a song about Joni writing a song about Furry... although, given the recent thread about Joni's harsh words against Paul Simon (Graceland was a life-changing album that can do no wrong in my world!) I imagine she wouldn't be too pleased with another 'copycat'...and then there'd be Furry, looking down from music-heaven, demanding I wire him some cash. Ha! Thanks listers! I feel very excited about next week's radio interview! Ange in Oz (not down and out...but not driving a shiny limo either) angetakats.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 17:52:39 -0400 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Furry- Why now? >Why does Furry Sing the Blues hold such a place in Joni that she goes back to it all of the time and what should it really mean to us?> That would be a good question for an interview. Maybe it is easy for her to sing now. Mac, is it in a low key? Maybe she now identifies with a once-beautiful world in decline. Naw. Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 14:36:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: Furry Sings The Blues Hi Catherine, Yes that was the most revealing thing she said about their meeting (when she tried to say to him that she also played in open tuning) and said "it was all downhill from there." Spanish tuning is really just Open G tuning, the second most popular tuning behind the open D for country fingerpickers like Furry. She tried (apparently) to talk music theory with him and he took it wrong. Maybe Furry was nervous about talking theory. I know loads of musicians that don't know anything about WHAT they are playing they just know HOW. Furry was likely like that. Not having a lot of experience around older African-American people, Joni probably was working uphill. MISCOMMUNICATION STINKS !! ;) - -Clint Norwood (Down and Out in Memphis, Tennessee) ________________________________ From: Catherine McKay To: Clint Norwood ; "Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com" ; "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 4:09 PM Subject: Re: Furry Sings The Blues In the version she sang at Massey Hall (and maybe elsewhere), when she does the "Furry voice," she says, "I DO know Spanish tuning. I DO!" Does anyone know what "Spanish tuning" is? >________________________________ > From: Clint Norwood >To: "Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com" ; "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 4:37:20 PM >Subject: Re: Furry Sings The Blues > > >One thing that was untrue about what Joni's manager said about Furry Sings the >Blues is that the song only mentioned his name and not much about him so he >didn't deserve any royalties. This was partially untrue. In the lyrics (at >least in the Shadows and Light concert film) Joni says something like, "my >Monday woman, My Tuesday woman etc." and that was a direct reference to his >song Furry's Blues. So as you can see there is more than just a mild reference >to Furry. I also believe that they should have given him a little something in >the way of money as he was pretty close to destitute. But you know the bean >counters had more to do with that than Joni I hope. > >Also one thing: Old >blues guys weren't always easy in the company of women. Ask Bonnie Raitt. >-Clint Norwood(Down and Out in Memphis, Tennessee) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 15:58:06 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: CBC broadcast schedule JONI: A PORTRAIT IN SONG  A BIRTHDAY HAPPENING LIVE AT MASSEY HALL will be airing on CBCs Canada Live program on both the Radio 2 and Radio 1 networks, starting on Monday (Canada Day): RADIO 2 Part 1 of the concert: July 1st, 7:00pm Part 2 of the concert: July 8th, 7;00pm RADIO 1 Part 1 of the concert: July 5th, 2:00pm Part 2 of the concert: July 12th, 2:00pm The recording will also be able to be streamed online, on demand, for the next year here: http://music.cbc.ca/#/Canada-Live (once the concert has aired) The concert will be rebroadcast again in November (on the 7th) to celebrate Joni's birthday. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 14:09:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Furry Sings The Blues In the version she sang at Massey Hall (and maybe elsewhere), when she does the "Furry voice," she says, "I DO know Spanish tuning. I DO!" Does anyone know what "Spanish tuning" is? >________________________________ > From: Clint Norwood >To: "Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com" ; "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 4:37:20 PM >Subject: Re: Furry Sings The Blues > > >One thing that was untrue about what Joni's manager said about Furry Sings the >Blues is that the song only mentioned his name and not much about him so he >didn't deserve any royalties. This was partially untrue. In the lyrics (at >least in the Shadows and Light concert film) Joni says something like, "my >Monday woman, My Tuesday woman etc." and that was a direct reference to his >song Furry's Blues. So as you can see there is more than just a mild reference >to Furry. I also believe that they should have given him a little something in >the way of money as he was pretty close to destitute. But you know the bean >counters had more to do with that than Joni I hope. > >Also one thing: Old >blues guys weren't always easy in the company of women. Ask Bonnie Raitt. >-Clint Norwood(Down and Out in Memphis, Tennessee) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 16:46:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Paul Simon I wish someone close to Joni would tell her to knock that stuff off. But then, no one tells Joni Mitchell what to do. >________________________________ > From: Dave Blackburn >To: Michel BYRNE >Cc: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:51:59 PM >Subject: Re: Paul Simon > > > > >I do find her Paul Simon claim disingenuous and mean spirited towards a colleague, who had quite an established songwriting career while Joni was writing her first song! > >Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 21:13:21 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Pronunciations Hey don't forget Cherchez la femme from Dancin Clown. Have no idea if she is pronouncing that right!!! Bob? :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Dave Blackburn Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 2:09 PM To: Betsy Blue Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Pronunciations > I'd place a wager that "avez-vous un allumette?" was one of Joni's > first French phrases. She doesn't seem to have any trouble with that one. > > Betsy Except that the "s" in "vous" IS pronounced when followed by a vowel, which she doesn't do. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 18:27:58 -0400 From: David Marine Subject: Joni, Dylan, Paul Simon, etc. Hey List, In fairness to Joni, she didn't say that she had to abandon the syllable-laden style as it was "no longer her sole province." She said that she heard Paul Simon "try" it, and it did not sound good to her ears. I'm not sure which of Simon's albums she was talking about. She then went on to say "I'm not sure that I succeeded with it, it sounds kind of goofy to me when I hear it back." That is to say, she questions the technique in her own work. Is she then attacking herself? Sure, Joni's spoken her mind about many artists over the years, but as she's said, "Nobody's harder on me than me, how could they be?" She's made observations about aspects of her own work that were less than glowing. Isn't it simply possible that she's merely saying what she thinks? I like the fact that she's willing to make honest observations about everyone including herself, even when I disagree with her. I get it. When we speak in an unfiltered way, we may not take the time to consider how the nuances of our discourse might be parsed. Especially when one is grappling to get to a "truth," and others are looking for a sound-bite or a slam. But do we prefer her to be guarded? Diplomatic? In other words, do we want her to be not her? There's a great message board called "Expecting Rain" where people discuss Dylan, and probably 40% or so of the posters agree with Joni's comments. By the way, if you haven't been to that site, I highly recommend it. A lot of idiots there, to be sure, but also a lot of intelligent discourse. And some of the defenses of Joni are more eloquent than anything I've seen here. She says things that are, to her, honest. I don't see them as being mean-spirited. Undiplomatic, yes. But not mean-spirited. No more so than when Dylan said "I hate to see chicks perform. Hate it." And so it rages on. I just wish we could try to get at what Joni is saying, rather than seizing on sound-bites. Best, David On Jun 26, 2013, at 4:30 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 07:22:28 -0700 > From: Shari Eaton > Subject: Re: VIDEO: Joni: The Creative Odyssey of Joni Mitchell > > Have to say I agree with you here. She repeatedly says what an influence Dylan was to her lyric writing. Imagine if Dylan said 'oh Joni started copying me so I had to switch it up.' It diminishes the talents of the 'influenced' artist and is kind of childish really. I've never listened to Paul Simon and thought he'd done anything other than play music that suited his talents and sensibilities. I would be curious to know at which point in his song writing and album making that the supposed change occurred. > > Dylan was smart in this arena. Whenever anyone (acquaintance or media) brought up Joni (or the name of another artist) he would just reply 'Joni? Yeah she's great.' End of story. A little dull but respectable. > > > > On Jun 26, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > >> I must say I'm rather baffled by Joni's claim that Paul Simon copied her too-many-syllables-in-a-line style, so she felt she therefore had to abandon it as it was no longer her sole province. This claim, which she states as fact, seems on reflection to be rather preposterous. >> >> Joni freely incorporated HER influences into her writing, from slack key open tunings to sax player phrasing. Isn't that how artists work, processing their influences and environment into their art. >> >> I wonder which Paul Simon material she refers to: one song, a whole album, or everything he wrote after succumbing to her influence? I wonder what he would have to say about this claim. He was himself an artist who extended popular song conventions. >> >> Dave >> >> p.s now if she had said Paul Simon copied her idea of writing freewheeling songs over an African groove, ten years after she had done it, I might agree. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 14:49:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Furry Sings The Blues Thanks, Clint, and Richard, and anyone else who answered the "Spanish tuning" question. I expect a lot of people just play without knowing the theory: they just know that what they're playing works. I'm not sure how much Joni knows about music theory either. She may have her own unique way of expressing it, or maybe she knows more than she likes to let on. I can just see Furry possibly being a little overwhelmed by her. >________________________________ > From: Clint Norwood >To: Catherine McKay ; "Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com" ; "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 5:36:03 PM >Subject: Re: Furry Sings The Blues > > > >Hi Catherine, > >Yes that was the most revealing thing she said about their meeting (when she tried to say to him that she also played in open tuning) and said "it was all downhill from there." Spanish tuning is really just Open G tuning, the second most popular tuning behind the open D for country fingerpickers like Furry. She tried (apparently) to talk music theory with him and he took it wrong. Maybe Furry was nervous about talking theory. I know loads of musicians that don't know anything about WHAT they are playing they just know HOW. Furry was likely like that. Not having a lot of experience around older African-American people, Joni probably was working uphill. MISCOMMUNICATION STINKS !! ;) > >-Clint Norwood (Down and Out in Memphis, Tennessee) > > > > > > >________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 17:37:14 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Furry Sings The Blues It's open G: DGDGBD - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 5:09 PM To: Clint Norwood; Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Furry Sings The Blues In the version she sang at Massey Hall (and maybe elsewhere), when she does the "Furry voice," she says, "I DO know Spanish tuning. I DO!" Does anyone know what "Spanish tuning" is? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 22:01:15 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: RE: Paul Simon I agree, Dave, that the Paul Simon claim has always seemed pretty preposterous, as well as demeaning to a fellow songwriter (and a great one at that). It first surfaced in public in an interview between Joni and Elvis Costello, in the '90s, I think. Unless, of course, Joni heard from some credible source that Simon was influenced by her. Perhaps this is just Joni's very idiosyncratic (and egocentric!) way of saying that she consciously changed her own lyric style in reaction to Paul Simon's overloading (in the 1990 Rhythm of the Saints, for example)... M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 15:51:59 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Paul Simon Yes, Michel, but Joni abandoned the "long line" right after Mingus when she and Klein tried their hand at being en vogue and wrote snappy pop songs with a big beat and shorter phrases. Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints hadn't happened yet so she didn't abandon her lyric style because of THOSE PS albums. It smacks to me of some petty rivalry that has morphed into a claim that raises eyebrows in interviews. She wasn't even the first songwriter to cram lots of words into a line though she may think she was; Todd Rundgren and Peter Hammill (of the English prog band Van der Graaf Generator) were doing it years before Joni. I do find her Paul Simon claim disingenuous and mean spirited towards a colleague, who had quite an established songwriting career while Joni was writing her first song! Dave On Jun 26, 2013, at 3:01 PM, Michel BYRNE wrote: > I agree, Dave, that the Paul Simon claim has always seemed pretty > preposterous, as well as demeaning to a fellow songwriter (and a great one at > that). It first surfaced in public in an interview between Joni and Elvis > Costello, in the '90s, I think. Unless, of course, Joni heard from some > credible source that Simon was influenced by her. > Perhaps this is just Joni's very idiosyncratic (and egocentric!) way of saying > that she consciously changed her own lyric style in reaction to Paul Simon's > overloading (in the 1990 Rhythm of the Saints, for example)... > M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 07:49:41 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: VIDEO: Joni: The Creative Odyssey of Joni Mitchell Joni speaks as if Paul Simon copied her after what I presume is Hejira, so 1976/6 onward. Graceland was, if memory serves, 1986. In late 1975 Paul Simon released Still Crazy After All These Years, roughly contemporaneous with Hejira, and anyone who knows that album knows that it is classic Paul Simon, with his conversational story telling, easy melodies and conventional song form. I think both songwriters were at the top of their game and wrote with an ease that you only acquire over time, both wrote narrative style lyrics with character sketches and an "eye for detail." But beyond that I don't hear what she's talking about. In a larger sense, practically every acoustic guitarist since Joni Mitchell has been influenced by her, if only by how she made it okay to get away from Verse/Chorus/Bridge form and use bland chord changes. But she singles out Paul Simon: I wonder if she had some beef with him and cooked up a reason she could cite in interviews. Dave (ahem, currently working on how to imitate Hejira!) On Jun 26, 2013, at 7:12 AM, "Susan E. McNamara" wrote: > I pondered her comment, too, Dave. I absolutely adore Graceland and if she is saying that Paul Simon was influenced by Jungle Line to create Graceland, wow. Joni heard Burundi drumming off a tape ... Paul actually went to Africa, protested apartheid, and played with many African musicians. Am I off base here? Also, I don't think Jungle line was the last time Joni used "world beat" as I guess the genre is called now. Dreamland and Tenth World would be another place she possibly influenced others like Sting and Peter Gabriel. Joni has been known to reject and embrace many of her actual influences in countless conversations. Another reason why we need to continually discuss her!!! :-) > > Susan Tierney McNamara > email: sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 07:14:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #835 Hi, Clint! Good to know you! It's always great to hear from someone who has the personal knowledge of one of the places Joni seems to hold dear. I also wonder why Joni might have chosen that particular song. I do know that she said to Jon Pareles in the interview (and I would have to go back to listen again for the exact words) that, when Jon asked her something about which lyrics she was most proud of, she quoted these: Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps In the grey decay They chew the last few dollars off Old Beale Street's carcass Carrion and mercy Blue and silver sparkling drums Cheap guitars eye shades and guns Aimed at the hot blood of being no one I'd have to think about why she might keep going back to this one, and wonder whether it might have anything to do with knowing she's getting older herself and possibly witnessing a lot of urban "renewal" that completely changes the way things were. I know that, as an aging fart myself, I often wax nostalgic and cranky, and keep trying to remember what things used to look like here in Toronto before the condo boom began and there was a Starbucks on every street corner. But then, maybe I'm just personalizing things too much, remembering the so-called good old days. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this. - ----- Original Message ----- > From: Clint Norwood > To: "joni@smoe.org" ; "joni-digest@smoe.org" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:53:36 AM > Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #835 > > Hi All and especially Ange in Oz, > > A month or two ago I became very interested > in "Furry Sings the Blues," most specifically I was interested in the > actual > meeting and how it took place. It made me wish that I could hop back in my > time machine when I was in kindergarten and ask my dad to look for a limo on > Mosby. I had asked Les to give me access to these forums so I could see if > there was any back story. I found it all terrifically interesting. But then I > see that Joni has chosen that (to me very dark) song to feature in the > Luminato performances and I think WOW!! That song/experience must have meant > very much to her. Someone (sorry I am just getting to know you guys) mentioned > that in the CBC interview that happened recently, that they wouldn't have > been > surprised to see Joni point a bony finger at the interviewer and say, "I > don't > like you." So it has come full circle for the artists. And then Ange in Oz > makes reference to the lil' ole Wiki Furry Lewis article that I wrote/edited > to > let people know that Furry lived next to Beale street in the 60's and early > seventies but by the time Joni arrived (Les put this date as Feb 5th, 1976) he > had moved to the Mosby residence (mostly for the reasons that Joni cites, that > urban renewal was bulldozing everything including Furry's Fourth St apt.) a > good deal north from Beale Street. It was flattering to say the least to see > Ange cite my own words so I decided to leave being just a spectator on these > boards and participate. So here goes, I have a big, burning question for those > who know Joni best. That is: > Why does Furry Sing the Blues hold such a place > in Joni that she goes back to it all of the time and what should it really > mean to us? > > Down and Out in Memphis, Tennessee > > Clinton Norwood (No One) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 15:54:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Furry- Why now? > Maybe it is easy for her to sing now. That's what I more or less assumed. She picked songs that her current range could easily handle. None of which means its not an important song or people shouldn't discuss it, but I think that had to at least be a factor. Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 15:56:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: CBC broadcast schedule >The recording will also be able to be streamed online, on demand, for the next year here: http://music.cbc.ca/#/Canada-Live (once the concert has aired) Thanks, Les. I am more than ready to finally hear it. Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 10:48:11 -0700 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Pronunciations Om-uh-lets! That one is definitely stretched to fit in Carey. Jew-ells/schoo-ells was changed to jools/schools. I can't remember where, but I think Joni made reference to this at some point. There is a whole other discussion to be had on the relative emphasis of dipthong vowel sounds. I don't feel qualified to comment, but if any linguists/educated singers want to do so, I would be fascinated. I'd place a wager that "avez-vous un allumette?" was one of Joni's first French phrases. She doesn't seem to have any trouble with that one. Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 13:27:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: Furry Sings The Blues Hi Ange, I think that Furry really lived in poverty. He had a streetsweeper job for the City that he did even when he was old. By the time Joni got to him he was retired. He could barely see at that point and he has said by then he could just see shadows and shapes. The thing is that maybe Joni and her crew (it would be nice to know who went with her since Robben Ford was a blues lover) didn't know how to say things right to Furry. I am sure that to some extent they thought it was sad that Beale was coming down (only 1 or two are more than a storefront these days) and everything was lost, but to Furry he was still there. I am SURE there was some miscommunication going on in that shotgun house. Just a few thoughts maybe I'll add more when they come to mind. Here are some pics of Furry (incidentally the exact house he lived in when Joni visited) from our city newspaper archives. You can also see his house in youtube videos where he and Bukka White (and others) just sat there with quarts of beer listening to him play in his bed. Furry died when a small fire occured in his home and he was forced to live where he could and contracted pneumonia which finished him. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/feb/20/late-bluesman-walter-furry-l ewis-get-marker-tuesda/?partner=RSS http://www.commercialappeal.com/photos/galleries/memphis-home-of-blues/37467/ http://www.commercialappeal.com/photos/galleries/barney-sellers-recording-loc al-history/47370/ - -Clint ( Down and Out in Memphis, Tennessee) ________________________________ From: "Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com" To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 12:36 PM Subject: Furry Sings The Blues Does anyone know the full story of Joni's journey to Beale Street and her interactions with Furry? Has she ever answered questions about his reported dislike of her song? Were they friends before she wrote the song? I never heard anything disrespectful in the lyrics to that song, but now I'm wondering whether it's the best choice for this interview. Feel free to shed some (shadows and) light on this topic. Thanking you, Ange in Oz angetakats.com.au A month or two ago I became very interested in "Furry Sings the Blues," most specifically I was interested in the actual meeting and how it took place. It made me wish that I could hop back in my time machine when I was in kindergarten and ask my dad to look for a limo on Mosby. I had asked Les to give me access to these forums so I could see if there was any back story. I found it all terrifically interesting. But then I see that Joni has chosen that (to me very dark) song to feature in the Luminato performances and I think WOW!! That song/experience must have meant very much to her. Someone (sorry I am just getting to know you guys) mentioned that in the CBC interview that happened recently, that they wouldn't have been surprised to see Joni point a bony finger at the interviewer and say, "I don't like you." So it has come full circle for the artists. And then Ange in Oz makes reference to the lil' ole Wiki Furry Lewis article that I wrote/edited to let people know that Furry lived next to Beale street in the 60's and early seventies but by the time Joni arrived (Les put this date as Feb 5th, 1976)he had moved to the Mosby residence (mostly for the reasons that Joni cites, that urban renewal was bulldozing everything including Furry's Fourth St apt.) a good deal north from Beale Street. It was flattering to say the least to see Ange cite my own words so I decided to leave being just a spectator on these boards and participate. So here goes, I have a big, burning question for those who know Joni best. That is: Why does Furry Sing the Blues hold such a place in Joni that she goes back to it all of the time and what should it really mean to us? Down and Out in Memphis, Tennessee Clinton Norwood (No One) ____________________________________ Hi Ange and Clinton, See the link below for a little bit of color as to why Furry was upset with the song. Furry claimed that Joni used his name without permission and he received no royalties from the proceeds that were generated by the song. As to why Furry Sing the Blues hold such a place in Joni that she goes back to it all of the time - its a good question. The imagery of Beale Street and the musicians that played there is beautiful. I know this is one of my favorite songs. http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=107 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 16:00:16 -0600 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: Squelched? I can't imagine Joni putting tolerating a film about her life while she's still living. Lori Idaho ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:25:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Squelched? When you mentioned putting, I thought maybe she had taken up golf. Bob ________________________________ From: Lori Renee Fye To: Phyliss S Ward Cc: Anita G ; Catherine McKay ; JMDL Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Squelched? And that was a cross between "putting up with" and "tolerating." Sheesh. I can't imagine Joni putting tolerating a film about her life while she's > still living. > > Lori > Idaho ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:30:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Squelched" chatter Um, yeah, well, that would be a fair assessment. Remember, Joni has no peers! >________________________________ > From: Anita G > Maybe she just wants the whole movie about herself and >not share space with Carly and Carol, >Anita ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 01:11:05 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: Questions regarding Furry Sings The Blues Am 25.06.2013 00:41, Wie Catherine McKay so vortrefflich formulierte: > I wonder whether she has ever used "nuclear" in a song? Nope. moni k. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 06:44:36 -0700 From: Mary Morris Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2013 #828 My mouth was agape at this closing sequence. I was saying "Oh no, you didn't go there" to the screen. While I like Joni's versions better, Judy does it well, for the time......it was the popular version that was on all the radio stations of the day. It fit the zeitgeist of the day. I like that MW used it & it was perfect. DD getting real with Joni's music playing in the background. Sweet. GREETINGS FROM THE TRIPLE M Down a gravel road, where the barb wire meets the sky. MARY M. MORRIS > Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 00:20:13 -0400 > From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #828 > > > JMDL Digest Monday, June 24 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 828 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Mad Men BSN [Betsy Blue ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 21:19:45 -0700 > From: Betsy Blue > Subject: Mad Men BSN > > I don't believe this is a spoiler. Joni Mitchell's music made its first > appearance on Mad Men, in the form of Judy Collins' Both Sides Now over the > end and closing credits of the season finale. (How I detest that > arrangement!) The period is November 1968. > > We could expect more next season, especially considering some other > developments in the world of Mad Men. We don't know what year is will be > next season, but Joni will be either a rising or established star. The girl > who plays Sally Draper, Kiernan Shipka, is very talented, and could > probably play several years older. > > Matt Weiner is a fan. See his guest DJ pick, Rainy Night House. > > kcrw.com/music/programs/gd/gd110330matthew_weiner > > Betsy > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #828 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 06:07:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Joni and Rufus and Jorn, oh my! Sharing this link, sent to me by another friend of both Joni's and the McGarrigle/Wainwright clan: http://www.mcgarrigles.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/JONIJornJRufluminato.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:47:32 -0400 From: Phyliss S Ward Subject: Re: Squelched? I know she stayed close to a couple about her age, most likely the childhood friend and wife she talked about. Don't know about the producer... On Jun 24, 2013, at 4:49 AM, Anita G wrote: > On 24/06/2013, Catherine McKay wrote: > She says she spoke to a producer who was apparently at the movie >> showing in BC last year that some jmdlers attended. (Does anyone who was >> there know if a movie producer was also there?) > > I don't know if there were any film producers at the event, but there > were all kinds of people who were very appreciative of Joni. I could > imagine that a producer who might want to talk with Joni getting to > the event or even her inviting someone who might get a sense from that > event of what Joni's music means to people. > > Phyllis, Laura, Cassy, Pearl we were there - did any of you get a hint > of anything like that going on? As for me, if I'd have met them I > probably wouldn't remember it, I was just so amazed by everything, > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 23:38:59 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Squelched? Bob, surely you recall that great golfing classic 'Little Green'? Anita On 24/06/2013, Bob Muller wrote: > When you mentioned putting, I thought maybe she had taken up golf. > > Bob > ________________________________ > F ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:47:56 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Furry Sings the Blues? Hi Deb: I was so floored when she started singing this. It's a big favorite of mine, too. It's too bad there is no video yet. She really nailed it on Tuesday night. She introduced it as "her feminist song, or so they say." I don't think she veered from the lyrics too much (everyone was using the monitors, and can't say that I blame them!). I felt like Brian Blade's arrangement was pretty true to the rhythm and pace of the original on HOSL. Although I was focused on Joni, right in my vision line was also Marvin Sewell, who was playing the acoustic guitar in Joni's style with the accurate tuning! (as I found out later when I spoke with him). I'm still in awe of what a great performance she put on. I think that the version of Woodstock on Tuesday night was much better than Wednesday night from what I saw in the video. Although I'm sure Wednesday's was much more poignant since Kilauren was on stage. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Deb Messling Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 10:36 PM To: JMDL Subject: Furry Sings the Blues? Forgive my fogginess - did Joni sing this twice? I mean, she obviously did; I've seen video where she talks the first few lines and video where she starts singing right off. Did she sing the same songs on different nights? I'm assuming there is no video of Don't Interrupt the Sorrow, or it would have been posted by now. In lieu of video, could someone who was present give their impression of that song? It's always been one of my favorites. - -- Deb Messling dlmessling@gmail.com http://bookbook.typepad.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:25:50 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Questions regarding Furry Sings The Blues Hi Ange, Hejira is an Arabic word (it's in the dictionary) which I suspect is Anglicized from its Arabic pronunciation in all the variants we've heard. I'm sure there are listers who can read the phonetic spellings below better than me. But it seems there is a "d" sound in it and is not a soft "j". Heb"gib"ra (hI*KdJaI* rI, KhIdJ Ir I) n., pl. -ras. 1. (sometimes l.c.) Hijra. 2. (l.c.) Also, hejira.any flight or journey to a more desirable or congenial place. [1590b1600; < Medieval Latin < Arabic; see Hijra] I imagine Furry Lewis despised the song about him because he was dirt poor and this elegant blond visitor had a "limo (that was) shining on his shanty street" and he viewed the encounter as an exploitation. If it had been accompanied by a $1000 check I suspect he'd have loved the song. Dave p.s my band performs this abum in November so it will be nice to be able to pronounce it correctly. Joni is probably not a good source for its pronunciation having heard her way of saying "samba" and "cellulite"! On Jun 24, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Ange T wrote: > Hey listers, > I've been asked to do an interview here in Australia on ABC radio. The > segment is called: Something old, something new, something borrowed, > something blue. It involves me selecting/playing songs that relate to those > themes. > > Off the back of Luminato, it seems like the obvious selection for the > 'blue' themed song would be Furry Sings the Blues (particularly given that > Joni says one of the lyrics she is most proud of is within this song). But > before I go on air, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions: > > 1. How do I pronounce Hejira? I always pronounced it as "hedge-ear-ra" but > after listening to her Luminato interview, where the interviewer says > "hedge-eye-ra", I'm now uncertain. I'm wondering if this is a 'you say > tomAYto, I say tomARto' thing... or if there's a correct way of saying it. > > 2. I was researching Furry online and found this reference on wikipedia: > > Joni Mitchell 's song, "Furry > Sings the Blues", (on her *Hejira > * album ) is about her visit to Furry > Lewis' apartment and a mostly ruined Beale > Street on > February 5th, 1976. Lewis despised the Mitchell song and demanded she pay > him royalties .[4] > > Does anyone know the full story of Joni's journey to Beale Street and her > interactions with Furry? Has she ever answered questions about his reported > dislike of her song? Were they friends before she wrote the song? > > I never heard anything disrespectful in the lyrics to that song, but now > I'm wondering whether it's the best choice for this interview. Feel free to > shed some (shadows and) light on this topic. > > Thanking you, > Ange in Oz > angetakats.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 16:00:52 -0600 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: Squelched? And that was a cross between "putting up with" and "tolerating." Sheesh. I can't imagine Joni putting tolerating a film about her life while she's > still living. > > Lori > Idaho ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:27:36 -0700 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Re: Mad Men BSN Brian wrote: Cheesy as Judy's arrangement sounds to today's ears, it was in fact the 'bait' that grabbed me You're right. The fact that it is dated is actually a pro for a period piece. Joni's own version would have been an anachronism. But I was delighted to see a comment on facebook from someone of my generation asking "Who was covering that Joni Mitchell song?" I'm hoping for California next season! Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 21:46:47 +0100 (BST) From: Vincenzo Mancini Subject: 1995 Billboard Century Award The best part is definitely missing and the quality is not so good, but this is news to me! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD-B8n1U1-g ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 20:57:59 -0400 From: "Scott Johnson" Subject: RE: Questions regarding Furry Sings The Blues All I can add to the "Furry" story is what prompted Joni into stealing the badges from cops. During the Rolling Thunder Tour, every place they played, there would be all these cops standing around. They all had bad attitudes toward cops because of Mayor Daley and the Democratic Convention. She mentioned the footage of here come the cops and here come the hippies. The hippies were with candles singing, "We shall overcome" at a peaceful demonstration and then they collided. She saw it live on television where the cops just started bashing in heads with billy clubs. It was a revelation for her generation of what was happening in America. Several years after that, the image stuck with her. Now there were all these cops standing around and she decided, "out of boredom really, to rip off cops. It was a psychological thriller." She would flirt with them for their badges. Only one New York cop said she was crazy. Most of the cops went along with the spirit of it. When she left Rolling Thunder, she proceeded on her own. In Memphis, she met the cop Catherine mentioned. She tried to make a deal with him -- his badge for a ride in her limo to the record store. That's when he took her to Beale Street instead. During the Tuesday night concert, she began speaking the lyrics: "Old Beale Street is coming down Sweeties' Snack Bar, boarded up now And Egles The Tailor and the Shine Boy's gone Then she began to SING: "Faded out with Ragtime blues..........." I'll tell you, I was sitting next to Patti P. and we both gasped and the tears started to flow. You could hear the audience at that moment gasp as well. We both had chills. I wasn't at Wednesdays show, but I think we were treated to Joni's first *back to singing* moment. It was an opening night after years of not performing, when she wasn't quite sure what the audience's reaction would be, or if she could actually sing well enough by her standards. I'll be forever grateful to have been in the audience, just at that moment of the world. I'm reminded of what Mark wrote in his parody, "As we dreamed of songs she might sing She spoke words but her voice broke free" Jody - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 6:36 PM To: Ange T; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Questions regarding Furry Sings The Blues Funny you should ask about the pronunciation. A few of us commented on that on the Facebook jmdl page. The way Joni pronounces it is the way you do, Hedge-ear-uh. Jon Pareles pronounced it Hedge-eye-ruh. If you look it up on a dictionary, you might even find another way or two to pronounce it, so go with the Joni pronunciation, since it's her song. Before Joni sang "Furry" at Massey Hall last week, she told a story about how she had gone around whatever city she was in at the time, collecting badges from cops, by flirting with them. She says that, when she got to Memphis, a cop there (and she mentions he had been one of the cops present when Martin Luther King was assassinated, or one who arrived on the scene shortly after) wouldn't give her his badge, but instead offered to drive her down to Beale Street, where she met Furry Lewis. You can hear part of this story on the Youtube link below, where she describes what it was like on Beale Street at the time, when things were in ruins. Unfortunately, it doesn't include the part just before that, about getting badges from cops. Maybe someone else who was there can remember this story better than I can and can fill in some gaps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qhJHY05rX8 - ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ange T > To: "joni@smoe.org" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 6:04:36 PM > Subject: Questions regarding Furry Sings The Blues > > Hey listers, > I've been asked to do an interview here in Australia on ABC radio. The > segment is called: Something old, something new, something borrowed, > something blue. It involves me selecting/playing songs that relate to those > themes. > > Off the back of Luminato, it seems like the obvious selection for the > 'blue' themed song would be Furry Sings the Blues (particularly given > that > Joni says one of the lyrics she is most proud of is within this song). But > before I go on air, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions: > > 1. How do I pronounce Hejira? I always pronounced it as "hedge-ear-ra" > but > after listening to her Luminato interview, where the interviewer says > "hedge-eye-ra", I'm now uncertain. I'm wondering if this is a > 'you say > tomAYto, I say tomARto' thing... or if there's a correct way of saying > it. > > 2. I was researching Furry online and found this reference on wikipedia: > > Joni Mitchell 's song, > "Furry > Sings the Blues", (on her > *Hejira > * album ) is about her visit to Furry > Lewis' apartment and a mostly ruined Beale > Street on > February 5th, 1976. Lewis despised the Mitchell song and demanded she pay > him royalties > .[4] > > Does anyone know the full story of Joni's journey to Beale Street and her > interactions with Furry? Has she ever answered questions about his reported > dislike of her song? Were they friends before she wrote the song? > > I never heard anything disrespectful in the lyrics to that song, but now > I'm wondering whether it's the best choice for this interview. Feel free > to > shed some (shadows and) light on this topic. > > Thanking you, > Ange in Oz > angetakats.com.au ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #247 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe