From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #217 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, June 15 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 217 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses [Anita G ] Photo: Jean Grand-Maitre & Joni Mitchell hard at work [est86mlm@ameritech] Jorn Weisbrod story - small Joni mention [Catherine McKay ] Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses [Shari Eaton ] RE: The Interview/ drawing dog houses ["Rob Argento" ] RE: The Interview/ drawing dog houses ["Susan E. McNamara" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:07:35 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses On 14/06/2013, Gerald Kent wrote: > I have long been fascinated by her work in music (not very impressed with > her visual art) but this interview illustrates for me how incredibly full of > herself she has become. Sorry worshipers, just my opinion. > Gerald, in what way? It's hard to receive a side swipe (by that I mean 'worshipers') without any information regarding how you see it. Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 07:36:40 +1000 From: Ange T Subject: Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses Strangely enough, a few weeks ago I was talking about the 'ego of Joni' to a friend of mine - but I didn't feel so overwhelmed by it in this interview. Her comments about being an outsider from an early age, about being constantly misunderstood, about her tendencies towards perfectionism, about the double standards that existed throughout her career (the 'summer of love') - all helped me get more of an insight into why she says the egotistical things she does. To me, the real test of how 'incredibly full of herself she has become' was the final question - when asked what she was 'most proud of'. She could have brought up a killer song, or concert or collaboration - but she told a story of the two sisters who had lost their mother and had listened to her lyrics and melodies to comfort themselves during their grief. Ange in Oz www.angetakats.com.au On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Gerald Kent wrote: > I have long been fascinated by her work in music (not very impressed with > her visual art) but this interview illustrates for me how incredibly full > of herself she has become. Sorry worshipers, just my opinion. > > Sent from my iPad ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 22:56:00 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Warehouse 13 Joni Sighting Ibm not sure why this didnbt come through to the group so Ibm reposting. I watch a TV show called Warehouse 13. This week one of the characters had a 21st birthday and her boss was throwing a party with a retro theme... Vinyl, black lights, Jerry Garcia and Grateful Dead references. The decor was decidedly music related with several concert posters. One of the posters was bJoni Mitchell with Jefferson Airplane Tuesday July 7th 8 pm at Fillmore Auditorium.b It was shown a couple of times and I had to freeze frame to get it all. Did anyone else see it? Does anyone know what year that would have been? Warmly, Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:27:58 -0500 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: Photo: Jean Grand-Maitre & Joni Mitchell hard at work "Jean Grand-Maitre and Joni Mitchell are already hard at work! Here's a photo of them having dinner on Sunset Blvd. in Los Angeles while working on their brand new creation, inspired by her love songs" https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151376122881895&set=a.386226711894.171540.32590136894&type=1&theater Found on Alberta Ballet's facebook page Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 07:04:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Jorn Weisbrod story - small Joni mention This article in the Toronto Star mentions the Joni event, about two-thirds of the way down. http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/2013/06/12/hail_to_the_visionaryinchief.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:01:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses I don't actually disagree with you. I've always thought Joni sounded a little too full of herself - at least, any interview from the past 10-15 years. But it also suggests to me that maybe she's very lonely and has only herself to depend on. I could be misinterpreting that. She is definitely very opinionated and I really don't know if I'd want to engage in a conversation with her, because it seems like it would be more like a monologue. >________________________________ > From: Gerald Kent >To: Catherine McKay >Cc: Ange T ; "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 12:00:53 PM >Subject: Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses > > >I have long been fascinated by her work in music (not very impressed with her visual art) but this interview illustrates for me how incredibly full of herself she has become. Sorry worshipers, just my opinion. > >Sent from my iPad > >On Jun 14, 2013, at 9:12 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > >> I completely agree with what you've said. And I am thrilled to hear that she's writing her memoir. She finally bought a computer for that! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 08:38:09 +1000 From: Ange T Subject: Re: The Interview / feminism Forgive me if this has already been shared - but I thought this response to the Joni interview (published on Feminist Current by Meghan Murphy) was interesting, particularly off the back of the recent 'ego' thread. >>> In an interview with Jian Ghomeshi on CBC Radios *Q*, which was mostly wonderful and intelligent and the cause of much swooning in Mitchells fans (of which I am one), there was this awkward moment. And I tried very hard to ignore it. **My aural love affair with Joni Mitchell began over two decades ago, with my mothers records. *Blue *became one of my all-time favorite albums when I was about 15. So when she told Ghomeshi: Im not a feminist, I quickly suffocated the quote with a mental pillow and stuffed it into a suitcase along with everything I dont feel like acknowledging (because, as it turns out, everything awesome gives you cancer). Im choosing to ignore that, was my response to other feminists who noted their disappointment in Mitchells words. They, like me (though less committed to denial), felt let down by one of their icons. And she didnt just say Im not a feminist, and leave it at that. She was downright hostile. The painful thing about Mitchells rejection of feminism and feminists is that she teases us with all of her feminist consciousness. She says, of her album, *Blue*: It was a mans world The game was to make yourself larger than life. Mitchell was told she revealed too much of herself on that album, showed too much weakness and, in a mans world, vulnerability is a bad thing. She brilliantly calls out the bullshit myth that was the free love movement of the 60s as being what it was: a ruse for guys  a way to get laid. Mitchell doesnt fake humility, as women are meant to. She doesnt hide her talent, she doesnt pretend as though she is unaware that she is gifted and not only gifted, but *better*, much better than so many (most, even) other artists. Women arent supposed to know they are good. At very least, they arent supposed to say they are good. Mitchell isnt afraid of her ego. Im too good for a girl, she says. It made her male contemporaries uncomfortable. But then  stab-stab-stab  Im not a feminist. Wheres that line for you, Ghomeshi asks. I dont want to get a posse against men, Mitchell responds. Stab-cry-stab. She qualifies her statement: Ive got a lot of men friends. (more crying) Too many amazons in that community The feminism in this continent isnt feminine, its masculine. Our feminism isnt feminism, its masculinism. Theres this idea that being a feminist means being more like men. Its a stupid idea, perpetuated, Id thought, by stupid people and conservatives. Feminism is, of course, about challenging the idea that such a thing exists as masculine or feminine. Its about the fact that we learn gender. Neither masculinity or femininity exists in a biological sense and therefore neither is better or worse than the other. Traits that are typically associated with femininity are, of course, seen as worse because all things woman are seen are worse in our culture. Feminism is neither feminine or masculine. Nor should it be a celebration of either. It sounds like maybe shes had some bad experiences with feminists. She says theyve been nasty. To her, perhaps? I dont know. But something or some things made her hate feminism. In an interview done by Ani DiFranco back in 1998, the Mitchell tells her: I prefer the company of men, going on to describe the pleasure of being the only female presence among men. I dont want to have to say I like men, too, Joni! Ive got lots of men friends, too, Joni! And I think theyre great! AND Im a feminist! See? SEE?? Because that isnt the point. And Im tired of hearing feminists have to say We dont hate men, we love them! as a way to try to sell our movement. Mitchells rejection of feminism doesnt make me mad, though I understand the angry and frustrated reaction from some of her feminist fans who wonder how this seemingly feminist and highly intelligent woman could take such cliched and ignorant stabs at them  it made me sad. She seems like shes right there with us, until we get to the movement part. DiFranco writes: Joni has been personally disturbed by her own second-class citizenship for many years, as well she should be. It is interesting to study her public treatment, especially in the context of, say, her buddy Bob Dylan. For 30 years, Bob has been surrounded by a wealth of media hyperbole (voice of a generation, etc.) that was never lavished on Joni. Only now is she beginning to receive some of the public strokes befitting her contribution to popular music. After all this time, though, some of the praising rings hollow, she confided. Why has Bob been so thoroughly canonized and Joni so condescended to over the years? Maybe, in part, because when Joni was uppity, she was considered a bitch, and the media retaliated. From day one, however, Bob could be as uppity as he wanted, and the great mammoth rock press lauded his behavior as rebellious, clever, renegade and punkishly cool. Maybe its also because Bobs songs are inherently more masculine (go figure) and have therefore been viewed as more universal, while Jonis writing, which has a more feminine perspective, is put in a box labeled girl stuff. Mitchell knows that her experiences in life and in music are gendered. She knows shes been treated differently in the mans world that is the music industry. Maybe she feels she wants to side with the men because she feels she made it on her own accord. The boys dont need a movement to make it. *Full piece can be found here - http://feministcurrent.com/7738/why-joni-mitchells-rejection-of-feminism-brok e-my-heart-a-little-and-why-im-tired-of-talking-about-beyonce/ * ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:42:56 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses Agreed, Gerald. I only today caught up with the viewing and the reading. I feel lucky to be a Joni fan and a part of this group. Thank you all for keeping me up to date and for taking the time to express yourselves. I may watch a few more times before commenting but the one thing that struck me deeply right away is her criticism of the Internet and how timely her comments are with recent big brother news. Lots of self absorbed Joni. (I wouldn't have her any other way.) Shari On Jun 14, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Gerald Kent wrote: > She is quite complicated, no question about that. What is really refreshing > is that someone on the list is actually being objective. Thanks. Peace, > Gerry > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 14, 2013, at 1:01 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > >> I don't actually disagree with you. I've always thought Joni sounded a > little too full of herself - at least, any interview from the past 10-15 > years. But it also suggests to me that maybe she's very lonely and has only > herself to depend on. I could be misinterpreting that. She is definitely very > opinionated and I really don't know if I'd want to engage in a conversation > with her, because it seems like it would be more like a monologue. >> >> From: Gerald Kent >> To: Catherine McKay >> Cc: Ange T ; "joni@smoe.org" >> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 12:00:53 PM >> Subject: Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses >> >> I have long been fascinated by her work in music (not very impressed with > her visual art) but this interview illustrates for me how incredibly full of > herself she has become. Sorry worshipers, just my opinion. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jun 14, 2013, at 9:12 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: >> >>> I completely agree with what you've said. And I am thrilled to hear that > she's writing her memoir. She finally bought a computer for that! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 19:25:17 +0200 From: "Rob Argento" Subject: RE: The Interview/ drawing dog houses I really do not see that as anything special. Joni's music, poetry and Art have always been somewhat egocentric as is with most artists. That she has shared with us innermost feelings, I have never interpreted as an expression of any sort of social responsibility. That we have recognized some of these feelings and experiences in ourselves, that is where I have loved Joni's art, knowing one is not alone in some feelings of one's relationship to life, that some feelings are universal. Face it. Being "full of oneself" is a pretty American trait. /Robban in Sweden (though raised in the USA). - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Kent Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 6:01 PM To: Catherine McKay Cc: Ange T; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses I have long been fascinated by her work in music (not very impressed with her visual art) but this interview illustrates for me how incredibly full of herself she has become. Sorry worshipers, just my opinion. Sent from my iPad On Jun 14, 2013, at 9:12 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > I completely agree with what you've said. And I am thrilled to hear that she's writing her memoir. She finally bought a computer for that! > > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: Ange T >> To: joni@smoe.org >> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 1:40:58 AM >> Subject: Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses >> >> >> >> I agree that it's sad to think she'll never sing in public again. But >> it would be much sadder to watch her struggle to reach unachievable >> notes on stage. I think it's beautiful that she doesn't feel the need >> to hang on to that side of herself. She's so much more than a singer. >> I just wish we could hear her words of wisdom more often. >> >> I look forward to reading her memoir!!! >> >> Ange in Oz >> www.angetakats.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 14:28:23 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: The Interview/ drawing dog houses A nice computer too. It looks like a top of the line MAC. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 9:12 AM To: Ange T; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses I completely agree with what you've said. And I am thrilled to hear that she's writing her memoir. She finally bought a computer for that! >________________________________ > From: Ange T >To: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 1:40:58 AM >Subject: Re: The Interview/ drawing dog houses > > > >I agree that it's sad to think she'll never sing in public again. But >it would be much sadder to watch her struggle to reach unachievable >notes on stage. I think it's beautiful that she doesn't feel the need >to hang on to that side of herself. She's so much more than a singer. I >just wish we could hear her words of wisdom more often. > >I look forward to reading her memoir!!! > >Ange in Oz >www.angetakats.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:38:26 +0000 From: Michael quebec Subject: Joni Luminato concert to be broadcast on CBC Radio Good news ! About two weeks from now, you can hear a one-hour version of the show on Canada Live (though it won't be broadcast live, just recorded live) which airs Friday afternoons on CBC Radio 1. It willl also most likely be available on demand, at http://music.cbc.ca/ Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 23:22:37 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Warehouse 13 Joni Sighting Hi Cassy, I didn't see it but anybody that knows me would know I am so wishing I had a time machine right now. There was a time in my early 20s when I thought of Joni & Grace Slick as two distinct sides of my confused personality. As the door mouse said, what a strange, strange boy he was. The Airplane and Joni Mitchell on the same bill. What a dream. Mark in Seattle (well you know it's Shoreline, don't you, Dear?) - -----Original Message----- From: Cassy Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 10:56 PM To: JMDL Subject: Warehouse 13 Joni Sighting Ibm not sure why this didnbt come through to the group so Ibm reposting. I watch a TV show called Warehouse 13. This week one of the characters had a 21st birthday and her boss was throwing a party with a retro theme... Vinyl, black lights, Jerry Garcia and Grateful Dead references. The decor was decidedly music related with several concert posters. One of the posters was bJoni Mitchell with Jefferson Airplane Tuesday July 7th 8 pm at Fillmore Auditorium.b It was shown a couple of times and I had to freeze frame to get it all. Did anyone else see it? Does anyone know what year that would have been? Warmly, Cassy ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #217 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe