From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #110 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, March 21 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 110 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Woodstock revisionist history [Paul Ivice ] Re: Woodstock revisionist history [Paul Ivice ] http://real21.org/h/phpmailer/svrdm.html [J Kendel Johnson ] Woodstock revisionist history [Paul Ivice ] Art Nouveau [Gordon MacKie ] Re: the woodstock we attend [Kevin Foehr ] Re: the woodstock we attend ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Art Nouveau [LC Stanley ] Re: A day in the garden [LC Stanley ] Re: Woodstock revisionist history [Lori Renee Fye ] Re: Luminato Joni tribute [Michael quebec ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 04:18:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Ivice Subject: Woodstock revisionist history While the song must have made Joni a fair bit of money over the years, a lot of people still don't recognize that she wrote it ... but they for sure know the song, and, because of the existence of the song, they inquire about an event that is, bit by bit, fading from popular culture. Lori, STILL in Ohio Again, I don't think this is true, either. What you are saying in heavily colored by the perspective of a fan of Joni, but not really rooted in reality. The song was an afterthought that may have crystallized the event in the minds of a smaller percentage of people, but it was the event itself that was historic and somewhat culture-shaking, not the song. The song may have been icing on the cake or the bow on the girt, but the event was historic in its own right and would have had just as big of an impact on American culture without the song, or someone else would have written a song 85 percent as good to fill that void. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:52:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Ivice Subject: Re: Woodstock revisionist history From: Lori Renee Fye I was eleven years old when Woodstock happened, and, as politically aware as I was for a kid that age, I was only dimly aware that anything was going on at Yasgur's Farm in 1969. Woodstock, at the time it happened, meant almost nothing to me. The song itself brought it to life for me. I didn't see documentaries about Woodstock until ... I don't even know when. I didn't watch a whole lot of television until I was well into my 40s. Just my experience, perhaps as a part of that smaller percentage. Lori, still in Ohio but Idaho-bound Lori, After the Woodstock event itself there was the movie that was widely shown in theaters and a "soundtrack" double ((or triple??) album that sold millions of copies, and then another album of more live music from Woodstock. The event generated plenty of publicity and public awareness without Joni's song, though for at least some people, and perhaps many, the song encapsulated and symbolized the feelings and aura of Woodstock. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:58:53 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: http://real21.org/h/phpmailer/svrdm.html http://thegraze.net/presskit/haxcu.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 06:19:31 -0700 (PDT) From: LC Stanley Subject: Re: the woodstock we attend Hi Lori, I think the older teen popular culture still draws from Woodstock and builds from it. Younger kids don't, but did they ever really? From what I see, Jimi Hendrix is the key to Woodstock for the current generation. If you ask them who Jimi is, they know, and most connect him with Woodstock and maybe fewer with the Monterey Pop festival. They know who Janis Joplin is too although maybe fewer. It could be that the upcoming teens won't know Jimi nor Janis, and Woodstock will fade, but it's impression will be part of what formed current culture even if it doesn't get credit in the future. So, it is like Joni and her song in that sense. But who knows, with Joni it could be like with VanGogh even though she's had much more success during her life than he ever did. I'm looking forward to seeing what the movie of Girls Like Us does with the youth. I agree that the movie of Woodstock put it in the minds of people in a way that nothing else did, and Joni's song was the theme song so that speaks volumes. Documentaries form opinions... sometimes too much. Memory is a physical thing and adaptation and habituation are all part of it so it is literally a fluid thing, plastic (not the polymer). Love, Laura ________________________________ From: Lori Renee Fye To: Randy Remote Cc: Ingrid Lochrenberg ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:18 PM Subject: Re: the woodstock we attend > It's icing on the cake, but would've been the same > without the song. I think you could argue that Woodstock > did more for Joni than the other way around. I don't know if I agree with that. Sure, Woodstock was one of the first events of its kind, if not *the* first. But these lines in particular absolutely captured the essence of what people were feeling and trying to accomplish back then: We are stardust We are golden And we've got to get ourselves Back to the garden The whole song captures it brilliantly, and immortalized the event for people who've been born in the generations since who will probably never know an era like that. (Not too many people seem to be interested in getting themselves back to any sort of garden these days, let alone understanding the meaning of "We are stardust / Billion year old carbon.") While the song must have made Joni a fair bit of money over the years, a lot of people still don't recognize that she wrote it ... but they for sure know the song, and, because of the existence of the song, they inquire about an event that is, bit by bit, fading from popular culture. Lori, STILL in Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 04:45:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Ivice Subject: Woodstock revisionist history From: Ingrid Lochrenberg Subject: the woodstock we attend People may express incredulity at Joni not having been at Woodstock, but I can't help wondering if Woodstock would really have 'been' without Joni Mitchellb&b&I wonder if what she encapsulated from her inner spirit into the song woodstock wasn't the 'real' woodstock that people think of when thy think they're thinking of the festival. What would have made it not just be another rained out festival that blended with others around the country. I don't know much about what was unique to the actual event but I certainly don't think it would have lived on in our imagination if it wasn't for joni's Woodstock song. I don't think that Joni 'WASN'T AT' Woodstockb&.I don't think she has missed out. Instead I think it is Joni's Woodstock that the generations including her own have really attendedb&..her song: that that is where the real ongoing magic emanates from. She has evoked the attributes of the Festival, not with her memory, but with her creative spirit. Ingrid Ingrid, Written like a true Joni fan. I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't think what you suggest is true at all. Joni's song may have put a bow on the gift of Woodstock, but the festival was big news at the time, before the song became part of the national landscape, and the "Three Days of Peace, Love & Music" would have been historic without her song for a number of reasons. Personally, I think it was probably a good thing for Joni that she didn't get to the festival and appeared on the Dick Cavett Show instead. I think her music at the time might have been overwhelmed by the enormity of the event, and the external perspective she had helped her write a better song than what she would have come up with if she had actually been there. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 11:10:13 +0000 From: Gordon MacKie Subject: Art Nouveau Hi All- greetings from lurkdom. This may have been well discussed but just in case .see below. Not read it yet. Genders Issue 56, Fall 2012 The Only Black Man at the Party Joni Mitchell Enters the Rock Canon By MILES PARKS GRIER http://www.genders.org/g56/g56_grier.html Gordon in snowy Glasgow Gordon Mackie Lecturer in Community Education University of Strathclyde Faculty of Humanities and Social Sciences School of Applied Social Sciences LH627 Lord Hope Building 141 St James Road Glasgow G4 0LT TEL: 0141 444 8602 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Foehr Subject: Re: the woodstock we attend Hi Lori, You wrote: "people who've been born in the generations since who will probably never know an era like that." Sadly, isn't that the truth? The American cultural revolution that was the '60s is dead, and when we are gone the living memories will be replaced with historians distorted views. The right spins it as socialistic, amoral, and degenerate. Many think it was just about drugs and hedonism. "(Not too many people seem to be interested in getting themselves back to any sort of garden these days, let alone understanding the meaning of "We are stardust / Billion year old carbon.")" Absolutely. More people seem more "divorced" from nature all the time. I fear one day our society will lose all respect for it, to be replaced by a fear of wilderness and nature that will further contribute to the degradation of the environment and perhaps even the eventual destruction of the ecosystem and us with it. For example, the hope of turning around climate change by decreasing the use of carbon fuels appears to be diminishing to me. "They" are not going to stop burning fossil fuels until every last drop of oil and gas has been squeezed out the last fractured rock, imo. Young people now appear to care more about virtual reality than natural reality. "what people were feeling and trying to accomplish back then:" Yes, this memory will be lost first, and certainly that spirit has been gone for decades. And war and peace? I won't even go there. It's enough to point out that the USSR collapsed 20 years ago, but we are still locked in endless war. Not war with a national government that can be defeated and replaced, but with people who have ideas different from ours; people scattered around the world in dozens of countries, including our own. How can this "war" ever end? As Tony Blair said, "This is a war of ideas". And of course, ideas are bulletproof; so there can be no end to this war because the "military industrial complex" is too powerful and it must build weapons to generate profits. Talking and debating ideas doesn't generate billions in profits every year. Further, the government doesn't appear able to do battle with ideas anyway, only with violence. Our Nobel peace prize winning president won't even talk to N Korea or Iran, because it will look weak or some such nonsense. What chance is there of stopping or preventing any war when you won't talk to your "adversaries"? None. We had many things (ideas) right in the '60s, and we won some battles, with the Clean Air and Water Acts and to a lesser extent with Vietnam. But it also appears we lost the larger war. "Sitting in a park in Paris France Reading the news and it sure looks bad They won't give peace a chance That was just a dream some of us had" The 1960's are dead; long live the '60s! Kevin - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 21:18:47 -0400 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: the woodstock we attend > It's icing on the cake, but would've been the same > without the song. I think you could argue that Woodstock > did more for Joni than the other way around. I don't know if I agree with that. Sure, Woodstock was one of the first events of its kind, if not *the* first. But these lines in particular absolutely captured the essence of what people were feeling and trying to accomplish back then: We are stardust We are golden And we've got to get ourselves Back to the garden The whole song captures it brilliantly, and immortalized the event for people who've been born in the generations since who will probably never know an era like that. (Not too many people seem to be interested in getting themselves back to any sort of garden these days, let alone understanding the meaning of "We are stardust / Billion year old carbon.") While the song must have made Joni a fair bit of money over the years, a lot of people still don't recognize that she wrote it ... but they for sure know the song, and, because of the existence of the song, they inquire about an event that is, bit by bit, fading from popular culture. Lori, STILL in Ohio - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #384 ***************************** - ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:06:51 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: the woodstock we attend Certainly she captured some spirit of the event-real or idealized- with her song. But I don't think the song or CSNY's hit single brought Woodstock it's status as a landmark event. It was a mega-concert with most of the top rock (and folk) acts of the 60's, attended by 1/2 million peaceful young people who were undeterred by drenching rain and closed highways. Jimi, Janis, CSNY, etc etc...but what really made it an iconic festival was the movie, which was a rallying event at the height of the Vietnam War for millions more people who couldn't be there, and the people in the theaters were not singing along to the title song, they were singing along to Country Joe's anti-war anthem "I Feel Like I'm Fixin' To Die". And there's farmer Max Yasgur's famous line which captured the imagination of us all. The movie opens with CSNY's "Woodstock", and aerial photography of the hordes, very powerful. It's icing on the cake, but would've been the same without the song. I think you could argue that Woodstock did more for Joni than the other way around. RR From: "Ingrid Lochrenberg" > People may express incredulity at Joni not having been at Woodstock, but I > can't help wondering if Woodstock would really have 'been' without Joni > Mitchellb&b&I wonder if what she encapsulated from her inner spirit into > the song woodstock wasn't the 'real' woodstock that people think of when > thy think they're thinking of the festival. What would have made it not > just be another rained out festival that blended with others around the > country. I don't know much about what was unique to the actual event but > I certainly don't think it would have lived on in our imagination if it > wasn't for joni's Woodstock song. I don't think that Joni 'WASN'T AT' > Woodstockb&.I don't think she has missed out. Instead I think it is Joni's > Woodstock that the generations including her own have really > attendedb&..her song: that that is where the real ongoing magic emanates > from. She has evoked the attributes of the Festival, not with her memory, > but with her creative spirit. > > Ingrid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 06:52:04 -0700 (PDT) From: LC Stanley Subject: Re: Art Nouveau Hi Gordon, Very interesting article. I really enjoyed reading it! I like the reference to Joni as a "wordsmith." I wonder how much thought went into Joni's race/cross dressing? I wonder if she intentionally thought about it for days or if it was s spur of the moment thing? Also, I wonder if a black man cross-race/gender dressed what the reaction would have been? I'm always interested in gender benders as a gay woman. Race is just icing on the cake. I love white Reeses peanut butter cups. They are best just out of the refrigerator. Thanks for posting. Enjoy the snow! Best wishes, Laura ________________________________ From: Gordon MacKie To: "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:10 AM Subject: Art Nouveau Hi All- greetings from lurkdom. This may have been well discussed but just in case .see below. Not read it yet. Genders Issue 56, Fall 2012 The Only Black Man at the Party Joni Mitchell Enters the Rock Canon By MILES PARKS GRIER http://www.genders.org/g56/g56_grier.html Gordon in snowy Glasgow Gordon Mackie Lecturer in Community Education University of Strathclyde Faculty of Humanities and Social Sciences School of Applied Social Sciences LH627 Lord Hope Building 141 St James Road Glasgow G4 0LT TEL: 0141 444 8602 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 06:17:34 -0700 (PDT) From: LC Stanley Subject: Re: A day in the garden Hi Lori, I don't know... but I got a tee shirt! I was in Woodstock during one of the jonifests at the Full Moon, and at this little shop there were these cool tie-dyed tee shirts from the Day in the Garden. I wish I would have bought a slew of them. Love, Laura ________________________________ From: Lori Renee Fye To: Raffaele Malanga Cc: "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 11:35 AM Subject: Re: A day in the garden > I might have missed this thread - ages ago - but I was wondering if A Day In > The Garden concert is available as an audio file? Has it been posted anywhere? > Or could it be bought somewhere? So many questions... ;-) Hi Raf., Joni's entire performance is here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/video.cfm?id=277 YouTube has Pete Townshend's performance in 17 videos. Other than that, I don't know if the entire three days of shows are available. Anyone else know? Lori now in Ohio (but not for long) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:41:19 -0400 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: Woodstock revisionist history > Again, I don't think this is true, either. What you are saying in heavily > colored by the perspective of a fan of Joni, but not really rooted in > reality. > > The song was an afterthought that may have crystallized the event in > the minds of a smaller percentage of people, but it was the event itself > that was historic and somewhat culture-shaking, not the song. Actually, it was quite a long time before I knew that Joni Mitchell wrote the song. I didn't get into Joni's music until 1977, when I was almost 19 years old, and it was another few years before I bought LOTC and made that connection. Even before that, I thought the song had immortalized the event. I was eleven years old when Woodstock happened, and, as politically aware as I was for a kid that age, I was only dimly aware that anything was going on at Yasgur's Farm in 1969. Woodstock, at the time it happened, meant almost nothing to me. The song itself brought it to life for me. I didn't see documentaries about Woodstock until ... I don't even know when. I didn't watch a whole lot of television until I was well into my 40s. Just my experience, perhaps as a part of that smaller percentage. Lori, still in Ohio but Idaho-bound ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:39:22 +0000 From: Michael quebec Subject: Re: Luminato Joni tribute Hi, I just got ourselves a couple of package deals to see some shows at the Luminato event. My partner and I will be there on opening night for the Joni tribute, God willing. It's been years since I've stepped foot in Toronto. I'm looking forward to it, and I hope to meet up with some other listers there, maybe a pre-show drink or meal ? Michael in Quebec Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:24:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Luminato Joni tribute - Tickets for Joni portrait concerts Luminato has just announced that Chaka Khan will be part of the concert. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #110 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe