From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #89 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, March 4 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 089 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Terminology [Dave Blackburn ] RE: New Library item: LADY OF THE CANYON [Susan Tierney McNamara ] RE: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. [Michael quebec ] Joni's left side [Shari Eaton ] Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. ["David J. Phillips" ] Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. [Anita G ] Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. [Dave Blackburn ] Terminology [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 12:02:43 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Terminology Kudos to Laura for investigating the neuro-physiology of music pitch AND learning to read music at the same time! I wonder how much research has been done on that subject. Even as something as elementary as a major to minor interval shift has a pretty universally felt effect but I wonder how or if that is measurable in the brain. But even without going heavily scientific I think it's very possible to see how different chord voicings - which are after all multiple interval relationships ringing together - have their own special sonority. Certain intervals ring consonantly and others ring dissonantly. Within each category you can group intervals as strong or mild. For example the Perfect intervals - the octave, fifth and fourth - are strong consonances; the thirds and sixths are mild consonances. In the dissonance camp you have strong dissonance between minor seconds and major sevenths, and mild dissonances between major seconds, minor sevenths and augmented fourths. When you play a chord your brain is decoding multiple layers of vibrating tones which have these sonic relationships. If you've read this far you might like to try this experiment, one that I do with my students: If you are a guitarist play your top E string open and the 2nd string at the fourth fret (D#) and let the two notes rub together, forming a dissonant minor second interval (aka a half step). On the piano simply play the e above middle C and the D# immediately below it. So far you have a powerful dissonant interval. Now also play the B below (3rd string, fourth fret) and listen to all three notes together. The dissonance has been reduced greatly. What happened? Well, instead of two notes ringing together giving us one vibrational relationship we now have three (B to D#, B to E, D# to E) and two of those three fall into the consonant category. So the sum total of the intervals' combined vibration is more consonant than dissonant. If you added another note, like the G# below the B (D string 6th fret) yet another consonant interval gets added into the mix and the original minor second dissonance has all but gone away. To relate this to Joni's "weird chords" for a minute: by playing the guitar in nonstandard tunings she found ways of restructuring the chord intervals (revoicing we'd call it) without having to do any complex hand movements. Some of these had interesting dissonances that are harder to play on standard tuning. Night Ride Home is just a 1-vi-ii-V stock chord progression in C (C, Am, Dm, G) but her open tuning turns that into Cadd9, Am9, Dm11, Gadd9 with droning Cs and Gs sustaining through all four chords. She has effectively revoiced these simple chords to be more resonant and to contain interval dissonances that add more color. Her chord voicings more than her actual progressions were where her innovation as a guitar player really lay though she herself doesn't really make the distinction very often when talking about it. Her piano playing is completely different. In her piano writing the voicings are almost always simple triads over bass notes (but which are not always the roots) but the progressions themselves were what was clever. The little passage in Blond in the Bleachers between "the bands and the roadies" and "trouble to keep 'em" is a mini masterpiece of innovative harmony using simple but unexpected chord movement. Same thing in the bridge of My Old Man. The charts are available for download at the piano transcriptions page of the website if anyone wants to study this further. Putting teacher's chalk away.. Dave On Mar 4, 2013, at 5:52 AM, LC Stanley wrote: > "Why is it so important to know the root of the chord? Because the roots of > the chords will sound whether we want them to or not, whether or not the > alphabetical symbol is correct. The root progression which emerges may not > coincide with what we think we have written; it may be better or it may be > worse; but art does not permit chance. The root progression supports the work. > The total root progression is heard as a substantive element, almost like > another melody, and it determines the tonal basis of the music. And the tonal > basis of a piece is very important to the construction of themes and to the > orchestration." Russo, William (1975). Jazz Composition and Orchestration, > p.28. > > > Hi Friends, > > I am learning to read music so this conversation > interests me. The root they say is the base note or the lowest pitch, unless > the chord is inverted. Trip how that is what we hear as the above quote says, > "the roots of chords will sound whether we want them to or not." That has to > be because of the way our inner ear detects the sound. Got me thinking of the > placement theory of the basilar membrane of the inner ear. This membrane is > like a ribbon that spirals around in the inner ear and is bounded by fluids so > it takes a ride when sound hits the ear drum and eventually makes the fluid > around the ribbon-like membrane move. The way the fluid is pushed by the > sound causes differences of movement along the spiraling membrane - the > lowest pitched (like a baseball?!) tones move the part of the membrane that is > furthest away from where the sound first started the movement of the fluid. > So the root note is the note that is further down the basilar > membrane in the inner ear than are the other notes of the chord. The > membrane has little hair cells on it that connect eventually with the brain. > The little hair cell receptor neurons where the base note moves the membrane > must be stimulated first or great than the hair cells of the other notes of > the chord. > > So many questions come to my mind about all of this working of > music and the stimulation of the inner ear, creating the limits of what we > hear. Usually when neurons are stimulated there is a threshold based on > sodium moving through the skin (cell membrane) of the neuron to the inside of > neuron. So probably the base note neurons reach their threshold of activation > before the neurons that react to the other notes of the chord. I'm convinced > that physical nature determines everything we perceive and is the basis of our > choices, like what sound we will and won't hear in a chord... regardless of > what we want to hear or want to think. Change the physical environment around > us and it opens a whole new world within us... good or bad. It becomes a > social issue. Music physically moves people, like a drug. Time to take a > shot of Joni. Think I'll start with "A Case of You." > > Love, > Laura > ________________________________ > From: David Lahm > To: Mark > > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 > 7:10 PM > Subject: Re: Terminology > > If Guerin was one of the people who first > introduced her to jazz, I would > guess that he helped her deal with the > swinging pulse of jazz, so different > from other musics. "Where one is" means, > literally, the downbeat of a > measure. If you want to really put a musician > down on the basis of his/her > rhythmic ineptitude, you'd say "that cat doesn't > know where 1 is." > > > DAVID LAHM > > > > On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Mark > wrote: > >> From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': >> >> I would > especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, >> New >> > York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep >> > heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The >> > Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord >> > and >> where 1 was. >> >> For years I read that as where b Ib was. Then I > either read an interview >> somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that > she had written b 1b >> and >> that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord > structure (musicians, help >> me >> out here!). >> >> From Tom Scott referring to > his first sessions with Joni on b For the >> Rosesb : b But with Joni it was > different, because as gifted and talented >> and fantastic as she is, she has > no technical knowledge whatsoever. She >> didn't >> even know the names of the > notes on the piano. It's all feeling and >> instinct.b >> >> It seems that if she > took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have >> known how to read > elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the >> piano were. But I > do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part >> in >> turning her off > to formal musical training. When she started playing in >> open >> tunings on > the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that >> interested her > or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in >> her >> head. > Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell >> by >> the > wayside. She didnb t need to know the technical names, the names of >> the >> > chords she was playing or even the notes. >> >> But it does seem that John > Guerin taught her some of what chord and >> rhythmic >> structure - b the root > of the chord and where 1 wasb - were all about and >> it came in useful as she > forged ahead into her b jazz periodb . >> >> Mark in Seattle >> >> -----Original > Message----- >> From: Sally >> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM >> To: > jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com >> Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn >> Subject: Re: > Terminology >> >> Hey Jim, (et al) >> Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the > word "loupe" myself! Lol! >> Anymore we >> just bump the darn thing up on the > PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, >> Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm > sure she knows her way around a loupe >> and >> lots of other photo equipment > fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done >> any >> darkroom work! >> As for > the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always >> that >> like > anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the >> inception...in >> > this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). >> >> >> Sent > from Confunction Junction on my iPhone >> >> On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, > jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: >> >>> Dave Blackburn said in part, >>> In > other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the >> one >>> > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! >>> seems very aware of technique and > terminology.> >>> >>> Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her > a proof sheet >> and >> she >>> immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was > slightly surprised that >> she >>> knew the name for a photographer's > magnifier. >>> >>> In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni > thanked someone >> for >>> teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a > musician so I don't >> know >>> that but I was surprised that she had made so > many albums without that >>> knowledge. >>> >>> Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 15:43:39 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: New Library item: LADY OF THE CANYON Yeah, I love me this kind of article!!! :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email:B sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:22 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: New Library item: LADY OF THE CANYON Title: LADY OF THE CANYON Publication: GUITAR WORLD Date: 2013.2.0 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2555 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 05:52:38 -0800 (PST) From: LC Stanley Subject: Re: Terminology "Why is it so important to know the root of the chord? Because the roots of the chords will sound whether we want them to or not, whether or not the alphabetical symbol is correct. The root progression which emerges may not coincide with what we think we have written; it may be better or it may be worse; but art does not permit chance. The root progression supports the work. The total root progression is heard as a substantive element, almost like another melody, and it determines the tonal basis of the music. And the tonal basis of a piece is very important to the construction of themes and to the orchestration." Russo, William (1975). Jazz Composition and Orchestration, p.28. Hi Friends, I am learning to read music so this conversation interests me. The root they say is the base note or the lowest pitch, unless the chord is inverted. Trip how that is what we hear as the above quote says, "the roots of chords will sound whether we want them to or not." That has to be because of the way our inner ear detects the sound. Got me thinking of the placement theory of the basilar membrane of the inner ear. This membrane is like a ribbon that spirals around in the inner ear and is bounded by fluids so it takes a ride when sound hits the ear drum and eventually makes the fluid around the ribbon-like membrane move. The way the fluid is pushed by the sound causes differences of movement along the spiraling membrane - the lowest pitched (like a baseball?!) tones move the part of the membrane that is furthest away from where the sound first started the movement of the fluid. So the root note is the note that is further down the basilar membrane in the inner ear than are the other notes of the chord. The membrane has little hair cells on it that connect eventually with the brain. The little hair cell receptor neurons where the base note moves the membrane must be stimulated first or great than the hair cells of the other notes of the chord. So many questions come to my mind about all of this working of music and the stimulation of the inner ear, creating the limits of what we hear. Usually when neurons are stimulated there is a threshold based on sodium moving through the skin (cell membrane) of the neuron to the inside of neuron. So probably the base note neurons reach their threshold of activation before the neurons that react to the other notes of the chord. I'm convinced that physical nature determines everything we perceive and is the basis of our choices, like what sound we will and won't hear in a chord... regardless of what we want to hear or want to think. Change the physical environment around us and it opens a whole new world within us... good or bad. It becomes a social issue. Music physically moves people, like a drug. Time to take a shot of Joni. Think I'll start with "A Case of You." Love, Laura ________________________________ From: David Lahm To: Mark Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Terminology If Guerin was one of the people who first introduced her to jazz, I would guess that he helped her deal with the swinging pulse of jazz, so different from other musics. "Where one is" means, literally, the downbeat of a measure. If you want to really put a musician down on the basis of his/her rhythmic ineptitude, you'd say "that cat doesn't know where 1 is." DAVID LAHM On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Mark wrote: > From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': > > I would especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, > New > York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep > heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The > Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord > and > where 1 was. > > For years I read that as where b Ib was. Then I either read an interview > somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that she had written b 1b > and > that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord structure (musicians, help > me > out here!). > > From Tom Scott referring to his first sessions with Joni on b For the > Rosesb : b But with Joni it was different, because as gifted and talented > and fantastic as she is, she has no technical knowledge whatsoever. She > didn't > even know the names of the notes on the piano. It's all feeling and > instinct.b > > It seems that if she took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have > known how to read elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the > piano were. But I do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part > in > turning her off to formal musical training. When she started playing in > open > tunings on the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that > interested her or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in > her > head. Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell > by > the wayside. She didnb t need to know the technical names, the names of > the > chords she was playing or even the notes. > > But it does seem that John Guerin taught her some of what chord and > rhythmic > structure - b the root of the chord and where 1 wasb - were all about and > it came in useful as she forged ahead into her b jazz periodb . > > Mark in Seattle > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sally > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM > To: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com > Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn > Subject: Re: Terminology > > Hey Jim, (et al) > Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the word "loupe" myself! Lol! > Anymore we > just bump the darn thing up on the PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, > Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm sure she knows her way around a loupe > and > lots of other photo equipment fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done > any > darkroom work! > As for the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always > that > like anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the > inception...in > this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). > > > Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > > > Dave Blackburn said in part, > > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the > one > > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! > > seems very aware of technique and terminology.> > > > > Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her a proof sheet > and > she > > immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was slightly surprised that > she > > knew the name for a photographer's magnifier. > > > > In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni thanked someone > for > > teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a musician so I don't > know > > that but I was surprised that she had made so many albums without that > > knowledge. > > > > Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 20:05:32 +0000 From: Michael quebec Subject: RE: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. Dave, I don't know much about music theory myself, but in Joni's defense, when identifying the notes in her Major chord for NRH, does she not say its a 7-7-2-3-5 with a C on the bottom, or a C Major type chord ? She easily discriminates between a Major and Minor string/note, and mentions a Minor with an inversion. So her ear certainly seems to be fine-tuned to all those nuances. Is this not because these are invented structures that have no real musical name ? I don't know. At the symposium discussing her music at McGill University several years ago, a comment was made to the effect that she did not actually read music, despite her intuitive familiarity with the various quasi-jazz harmonies and dissonances that she uses to compose her music. I think her use of the terms happy and sad in the interview are just a way to simplify what she's hearing in the chord structure for an audience that may not have a sophisticated musical background, don't you think ? Michael in Quebec > Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. > From: beatntrack@sbcglobal.net > Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 10:15:56 -0800 > CC: michael_quebec@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org > To: lawntreader@googlemail.com > > I really enjoyed it too, especially the close ups of her wonderfully syncopated right hand slap/upbrush/pluck technique and the custom made guitar itself. > > But I remain curious why or even how someone as bright as Joni managed to avoid learning almost anything about music theory. One would think she'd want to know the names of her preferred chords so she could easily communicate with her musicians. In some ways her understanding of music is very much that of a novice (major chords are happy, minor chords are sad) but of course the work she was able to produce was original and sophisticated. Tom Scott said in a 1974 interview I just read, in advance of our For The Roses concert on April 6th, that she didn't even know the names of the notes on the piano back then when he first recorded with her; for someone so inquisitive and brilliant that must have taken a lot of willpower to prevent herself from learning basic stuff - in case, I imagine, she feared it might detract from her purely emotional connection to the music. In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the one she talks about in this Youtube, she seems very aware of technique and terminology. > > Dave > > > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 9:43 AM, Anita G wrote: > > > Michael. this is a wonderful find. I have so enjoyed watching it and, > > like David, found the description of the guitar fascinating - and what > > I wouldn't give to see that guitar! In fact, the whole thing is > > fascinating. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 22:37:58 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. Anita, Joni mentioned during a live song intro that you can tune the piano > anyway you like. Do we know that she had it tuned the normal way for her > songs? > > Shari Shari, I am pretty sure the piano was always tuned in an orthodix way. I suppose you could mess about with all the tensions and tune a piano differently, which would be interesting to see what effects you might get. I think you'd still need to interesting things with both hands. It's possible to play Joni's songs in standard tuning - our own Dave B does that very thing on many of Joni's songs, but it's very difficult. Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 23:23:20 +0000 From: Michael quebec Subject: FW: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. Hi, I'm reposting this becausei t seems to have been dropped accidentally from the list, I didn't get it in my inbox, just got some responses to it... Michael in Quebec From: michael_quebec@hotmail.com To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 14:34:33 +0000 Hello everyone, You know how Youtube has this way of tracking one's fields of interest and throwing up personalized suggestions to watch ? Well, a great Joni vid came up for me today, from Europe but shot in LA, one that I had never seen before, dating from 1991. It's quite long (34 mins), beginning with a lengthy segment portraying the technical aspects of the newly-made CIFTC video. It's fascinating to see Joni the artist in a relaxed, work mode, critical of the technology and in some ways at its mercy, but exploiting it to her advantage. Then, we get to see her in a photo shoot (she favors her left side), and a short but pithy interview on her music and the 80's. And saving the best for last, a string by string breakdown of the chord structure of Night Ride Home, beginning at 28:00 mins. Not only did this last bit blow me away (the sound, the visuals, her playing) but it also brought tears to my eyes, knowing that all this beauty is now behind her, and probably will nevermore be revisited. What is it about her music that resonates so deeply ? She proposes an answer... For your viewing pleasure : http://youtu.be/kjdNrWtCQWk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 20:10:51 -0500 From: David Lahm Subject: Re: Terminology If Guerin was one of the people who first introduced her to jazz, I would guess that he helped her deal with the swinging pulse of jazz, so different from other musics. "Where one is" means, literally, the downbeat of a measure. If you want to really put a musician down on the basis of his/her rhythmic ineptitude, you'd say "that cat doesn't know where 1 is." DAVID LAHM On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Mark wrote: > From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': > > I would especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, > New > York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep > heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The > Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord > and > where 1 was. > > For years I read that as where b Ib was. Then I either read an interview > somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that she had written b 1b > and > that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord structure (musicians, help > me > out here!). > > From Tom Scott referring to his first sessions with Joni on b For the > Rosesb : b But with Joni it was different, because as gifted and talented > and fantastic as she is, she has no technical knowledge whatsoever. She > didn't > even know the names of the notes on the piano. It's all feeling and > instinct.b > > It seems that if she took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have > known how to read elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the > piano were. But I do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part > in > turning her off to formal musical training. When she started playing in > open > tunings on the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that > interested her or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in > her > head. Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell > by > the wayside. She didnb t need to know the technical names, the names of > the > chords she was playing or even the notes. > > But it does seem that John Guerin taught her some of what chord and > rhythmic > structure - b the root of the chord and where 1 wasb - were all about and > it came in useful as she forged ahead into her b jazz periodb . > > Mark in Seattle > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sally > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM > To: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com > Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn > Subject: Re: Terminology > > Hey Jim, (et al) > Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the word "loupe" myself! Lol! > Anymore we > just bump the darn thing up on the PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, > Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm sure she knows her way around a loupe > and > lots of other photo equipment fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done > any > darkroom work! > As for the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always > that > like anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the > inception...in > this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). > > > Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > > > Dave Blackburn said in part, > > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the > one > > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! > > seems very aware of technique and terminology.> > > > > Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her a proof sheet > and > she > > immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was slightly surprised that > she > > knew the name for a photographer's magnifier. > > > > In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni thanked someone > for > > teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a musician so I don't > know > > that but I was surprised that she had made so many albums without that > > knowledge. > > > > Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 12:38:38 -0800 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Joni's left side According to Chinese face readers we each (most usually) have a private side and a public side of our face. When I learned this I looked through Joni's photos and noticed (like Anita did) that her public side is her left side. I found it interesting to study her right side though, as her emotion is very present there. Shari ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:38:54 -0500 From: "David J. Phillips" Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. Oh, this is wonderful! Thank you! I cried out when she pointed out the eagle and the serpent on her guitar. djp On 03/03/13 09:3433, Michael quebec wrote: > Hello everyone, > > You know how Youtube has this way of tracking one's fields of interest and > throwing up personalized suggestions to watch ? > > Well, a great Joni vid came up for me today, from Europe but shot in LA, one > that I had never seen before, dating from 1991. It's quite long (34 mins), > beginning with a lengthy segment portraying the technical aspects of the > newly-made CIFTC video. It's fascinating to see Joni the artist in a relaxed, > work mode, critical of the technology and in some ways at its mercy, but > exploiting it to her advantage. Then, we get to see her in a photo shoot (she > favors her left side), and a short but pithy interview on her music and the > 80's. And saving the best for last, a string by string breakdown of the chord > structure of Night Ride Home, beginning at 28:00 mins. Not only did this last > bit blow me away (the sound, the visuals, her playing) but it also brought > tears to my eyes, knowing that all this beauty is now behind her, and probably > will nevermore be revisited. What is it about her music that resonates so > deeply ? She proposes an answer... > > For your viewing pleasure : > > http://youtu.be/kjdNrWtCQWk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 06:32:03 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Covers, Volume 80 - NEW LINK It works! Thanks, Bob. I hope it didn't come across as whiny. I appreciate what you do. Figured the problem was probably with the tiny url thing and not the upload itself. >________________________________ > From: Bob Muller >To: JMDL >Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 9:25:14 AM >Subject: Covers, Volume 80 - NEW LINK > >http://goo.gl/3m4E5 > >Trying a different url shortening service. Hopefully >works for everyone. Happy grabbing. > >Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:43:29 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. Michael. this is a wonderful find. I have so enjoyed watching it and, like David, found the description of the guitar fascinating - and what I wouldn't give to see that guitar! In fact, the whole thing is fascinating. I couldn't help feeling quite pleased that Joni felt that both Prince and us English 'got' HOSL, but I just couldn't thinking how much I would have simply LOVED to have anyone who had even listened to it at the time. How lonely it was being a Joni fan till the birth of the www. And how hard to get any information about her. If I didn't buy the weekly music papers, I didn't know what was going on anywhere. Hard to believe, these days. One thing that made me smile was at the point of the interview mid way through, the interviewer comments to Joni an astonishing range of of people cite her as an influence and he says something like 'Has that surprised you?' and Joni has a small glance at the camera at that point! I laughed out loud, thinking she was going to say 'No surprise at all.I know I am a genius' - but she is far more gracious but I think she might have weighed up her response in that moment. Anyway, thanks so much for sending this link, Michael. It was great to watch on a grey Sunday afternoon. Anita On 03/03/2013, Michael quebec wrote: > Hello everyone, > > You know how Youtube has this way of tracking one's fields of interest and > throwing up personalized suggestions to watch ? > > Well, a great Joni vid came up for me today, from Europe but shot in LA, > one > that I had never seen before, dating from 1991. It's quite long (34 mins), > beginning with a lengthy segment portraying the technical aspects of the > newly-made CIFTC video. It's fascinating to see Joni the artist in a > relaxed, > work mode, critical of the technology and in some ways at its mercy, but > exploiting it to her advantage. Then, we get to see her in a photo shoot > (she > favors her left side), and a short but pithy interview on her music and the > 80's. And saving the best for last, a string by string breakdown of the > chord > structure of Night Ride Home, beginning at 28:00 mins. Not only did this > last > bit blow me away (the sound, the visuals, her playing) but it also brought > tears to my eyes, knowing that all this beauty is now behind her, and > probably > will nevermore be revisited. What is it about her music that resonates so > deeply ? She proposes an answer... > > For your viewing pleasure : > > http://youtu.be/kjdNrWtCQWk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:35:11 -0800 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: A Mouth Like Yours - Trudy Taylor - VIDEO Thank you, Laura. I enjoyed this viewing and reading .. very muse worthy. Cheers. On Mar 3, 2013, at 6:14 PM, est86mlm@ameritech.net wrote: > Seem to remember a discussion where the conclusion was that this was about James' Mother, Trudy. > > The basis was that Joni and Trudy were good friends. I thought there was a discussion that the Taylor's > had a bed & breakfast on the water and Joni's picture was hanging in the dining area......long after James & > Joni were no longer a couple. > > Like Joni, Trudy sings and is a painter and is also well-educated and I can just imagine the two of them having > good, lengthy conversations. > > I couldn't find anything on this just now, but a while ago I found a YouTube video where someone posted > that they know Trudy Taylor and Trudy keeps a jar of seashells that Joni gave her in a bedroom of her home. > > Here's a video of Trudy Taylor: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_d0fqGnpxc > "Vice Dean Etta Pisano conducted the interview of Ms. Taylor, which covered topics including Ms. Taylors memories and impressions of her time in Chapel Hill, her family, and her experiences in the School of Medicine. The interview was recorded for inclusion in the oral history collection of the Center for the Study of the American South." > > Get into the mind of 90 year-old Trudy Taylor here: > http://www.mvartsandideas.com/ideas/interviews/madame-i-have-no-idea > > There is a real similarity with these two woman and their thought process, busy minds, freedom, etc. > > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 10:15:56 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. I really enjoyed it too, especially the close ups of her wonderfully syncopated right hand slap/upbrush/pluck technique and the custom made guitar itself. But I remain curious why or even how someone as bright as Joni managed to avoid learning almost anything about music theory. One would think she'd want to know the names of her preferred chords so she could easily communicate with her musicians. In some ways her understanding of music is very much that of a novice (major chords are happy, minor chords are sad) but of course the work she was able to produce was original and sophisticated. Tom Scott said in a 1974 interview I just read, in advance of our For The Roses concert on April 6th, that she didn't even know the names of the notes on the piano back then when he first recorded with her; for someone so inquisitive and brilliant that must have taken a lot of willpower to prevent herself from learning basic stuff - in case, I imagine, she feared it might detract from her purely emotional connection to the music. In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the one she talks about in this Youtube, she seems very aware of technique and terminology. Dave On Mar 3, 2013, at 9:43 AM, Anita G wrote: > Michael. this is a wonderful find. I have so enjoyed watching it and, > like David, found the description of the guitar fascinating - and what > I wouldn't give to see that guitar! In fact, the whole thing is > fascinating. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:34:12 -0500 From: Richard Flynn Subject: Re: Old Lady of the Year The chart called "Hot 100" is on pp. 26 and 27 of the February 3,1972 issue. Don't have a way to get a PDF from the RS web archive. Richard Flynn Professor of Literature Georgia Southern University https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn/ On Mar 3, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Les Irvin wrote: > Joniphiles - > Remember that "Old Lady of the Year" article/graph that Rolling Stone allegedly published in 1971ish? Does anyone have a copy of that? If I remember correctly, RS never really published anything using that phrase, but it's become an urban legend anyway. > I used to have a PDF of the actual from RS, but I can't put my finger on it. Anyone? > Thanks, > Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 15:43:33 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. After having transcribed dozens of Joni's tunes, the piano ones note by note, I find it very hard to accept that she knew nothing about music theory. I mean, just by being around schooled musicians you learn stuff, and her quick mind and thirst for understanding what lies beneath things would have been hard to switch off, in the belief perhaps that lack of knowledge allows the muse to operate unhindered. No. I propose something else. What if she in fact really knew quite a lot about music theory, but discovered she got more mileage by being perceived as the native genius who magically could just do it all? Moreover, what if, being the only woman among many men, she coyly affected a lack of understanding about technical stuff while amusing herself by baffling them with things they with their training didn't understand - Max Bennett told me when I interviewed him that he once asked Robben Ford what she was doing on the guitar and Ford replied "I have no idea." (It's just a fun little hunch, so don't take it too seriously, but might be a fresh angle to discuss on the list.) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:06:39 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Old Lady of the Year Joniphiles - Remember that "Old Lady of the Year" article/graph that Rolling Stone allegedly published in 1971ish? Does anyone have a copy of that? If I remember correctly, RS never really published anything using that phrase, but it's become an urban legend anyway. I used to have a PDF of the actual from RS, but I can't put my finger on it. Anyone? Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:15:49 -0500 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Terminology Dave Blackburn said in part, > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the one she talks about in this Youtube, she ! seems very aware of technique and terminology.> Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her a proof sheet and she immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was slightly surprised that she knew the name for a photographer's magnifier. In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni thanked someone for teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a musician so I don't know that but I was surprised that she had made so many albums without that knowledge. Jim L ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #89 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe