From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #87 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, March 4 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 087 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: A mouth like yours [Michael Flaherty ] A Mouth Like Yours - Trudy Taylor - VIDEO [est86mlm@ameritech.net] Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. [Shari Eaton ] Re: Terminology [Sally ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #82 [Bob Muller ] Re: A mouth like yours [Shari Eaton ] Re: Terminology [Sally ] A mouth like yours. . . . and canada [Marianne Rizzo ] Re: Old Lady of the Year [Richard Flynn ] New Library item: LADY OF THE CANYON [TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com] Covers, Volume 80 - NEW LINK [Bob Muller ] Re: A mouth like yours. . . . and canada [Laura Stanley Subject: Re: A mouth like yours I believe the woman who has "a mouth like yours" has been identified as James Taylor's sister. The first verse is about Leonard Cohen, the third James Taylor. I've heard the 2nd is about Nash, but I've never really understood the 'why' of that one. Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2013 20:14:09 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: A Mouth Like Yours - Trudy Taylor - VIDEO Seem to remember a discussion where the conclusion was that this was about James' Mother, Trudy. The basis was that Joni and Trudy were good friends. I thought there was a discussion that the Taylor's had a bed & breakfast on the water and Joni's picture was hanging in the dining area......long after James & Joni were no longer a couple. Like Joni, Trudy sings and is a painter and is also well-educated and I can just imagine the two of them having good, lengthy conversations. I couldn't find anything on this just now, but a while ago I found a YouTube video where someone posted that they know Trudy Taylor and Trudy keeps a jar of seashells that Joni gave her in a bedroom of her home. Here's a video of Trudy Taylor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_d0fqGnpxc "Vice Dean Etta Pisano conducted the interview of Ms. Taylor, which covered topics including Ms. Taylors memories and impressions of her time in Chapel Hill, her family, and her experiences in the School of Medicine. The interview was recorded for inclusion in the oral history collection of the Center for the Study of the American South." Get into the mind of 90 year-old Trudy Taylor here: http://www.mvartsandideas.com/ideas/interviews/madame-i-have-no-idea There is a real similarity with these two woman and their thought process, busy minds, freedom, etc. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 12:47:33 -0800 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. It's always been my suspicion that her piano teacher beat out any interest Joni might have had in classic music reading/writing. Almost as a way to rebel against the strict nature of music lessons - to say (whether she meant to or not) - 'hey I don't even need your structure. In fact, it's pretty limiting on the mind and imagination.' Anita, Joni mentioned during a live song intro that you can tune the piano anyway you like. Do we know that she had it tuned the normal way for her songs? Shari On Mar 3, 2013, at 12:05 PM, Michael quebec wrote: > Dave, > > I don't know much about music theory myself, but in Joni's defense, when > identifying the notes in her Major chord for NRH, does she not say its a > 7-7-2-3-5 with a C on the bottom, or a C Major type chord ? She easily > discriminates between a Major and Minor string/note, and mentions a Minor with > an inversion. So her ear certainly seems to be fine-tuned to all those > nuances. Is this not because these are invented structures that have no real > musical name ? I don't know. > > At the symposium discussing her music at McGill University several years ago, > a comment was made to the effect that she did not actually read music, despite > her intuitive familiarity with the various quasi-jazz harmonies and > dissonances that she uses to compose her music. > > I think her use of the terms happy and sad in the interview are just a way to > simplify what she's hearing in the chord structure for an audience that may > not have a sophisticated musical background, don't you think ? > > Michael in Quebec > > >> Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, > NRH, etc. >> From: beatntrack@sbcglobal.net >> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 10:15:56 -0800 >> CC: michael_quebec@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org >> To: lawntreader@googlemail.com >> >> I really enjoyed it too, especially the close ups of her wonderfully > syncopated right hand slap/upbrush/pluck technique and the custom made guitar > itself. >> >> But I remain curious why or even how someone as bright as Joni managed to > avoid learning almost anything about music theory. One would think she'd want > to know the names of her preferred chords so she could easily communicate with > her musicians. In some ways her understanding of music is very much that of a > novice (major chords are happy, minor chords are sad) but of course the work > she was able to produce was original and sophisticated. Tom Scott said in a > 1974 interview I just read, in advance of our For The Roses concert on April > 6th, that she didn't even know the names of the notes on the piano back then > when he first recorded with her; for someone so inquisitive and brilliant that > must have taken a lot of willpower to prevent herself from learning basic > stuff - in case, I imagine, she feared it might detract from her purely > emotional connection to the music. In other fields, like painting, or even the > filming of a video like the one she talks about in this Youtube, she seems > very aware of technique and terminology. >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> On Mar 3, 2013, at 9:43 AM, Anita G wrote: >> >>> Michael. this is a wonderful find. I have so enjoyed watching it and, >>> like David, found the description of the guitar fascinating - and what >>> I wouldn't give to see that guitar! In fact, the whole thing is >>> fascinating. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:17:02 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: A mouth like yours. . . . and canada is it the shape of the mouth and what it looks like or was it the language (possibly foul) that it spoke?? Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com On Mar 3, 2013, at 3:32 PM, Marianne Rizzo wrote: "She knew your life She knew your devil and your deeds." I always thought It was a lover of his . . A former lover. And this about "I drew a map of Canada." Love that line Have you ever tried to draw a map of Canada? With all her water bodies? Kind of difficult to draw the map. . Smile Take a look at a map (of Canada). xo Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 19:35:30 +0000 From: joe farrell Subject: re: Retro Covers, Volume 80 Hi, I am getting an "invalid link" message too. Regards, Joe. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 18:08:58 -0500 From: Sally Subject: Re: Terminology Hey Jim, (et al) Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the word "loupe" myself! Lol! Anymore we just bump the darn thing up on the PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm sure she knows her way around a loupe and lots of other photo equipment fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done any darkroom work! As for the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always that like anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the inception...in this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > Dave Blackburn said in part, > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the one > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! > seems very aware of technique and terminology.> > > Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her a proof sheet and she > immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was slightly surprised that she > knew the name for a photographer's magnifier. > > In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni thanked someone for > teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a musician so I don't know > that but I was surprised that she had made so many albums without that > knowledge. > > Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 05:42:31 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #82 Hi gang, No issue with expiration, I just uploaded it yesterday and the uploads are good for 2 weeks. I will take a mulligan and advise of the new link. Thanks for letting me know and sorry for the problem. Bob ________________________________ From: Mark L. Levinson To: joni@smoe.org Cc: onlyJMDL Digest ; onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 5:34 PM Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #82 On 02/03/2013 23:22, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > Anyone else getting an "invalid link" on this? Maybe a temporary issue? I got "invalid link" too. I assumed the link had expired. - -- -------------------------------------------- Mark L. Levinson - nosnivel@netvision.net.il - -------------------------------------------- "My Way" is a lousy song. https://www.facebook.com/pages/MY-WAY-is-a-lousy-song/156582624417310 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 07:46:34 -0800 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: A mouth like yours Interesting! I hadn't considered it that way. She makes note of another kind of physical similarity in Woman of Heart and Mind with 'hands alike, magnet and iron the soul' .. so always buckered it with that. Don't give me that mouth! Funny. In the vein of new realizations around her writing: I was listening to Nathan LaFraneer the other day and during the more 'out there' part of the song she says, kind of buried in instrument, 'once again I am escaping' and for the first time it struck me how many times she had escaped (death by polio, giving her baby up for adoption, divorcing Mr.Mitchell, leaving Canada, etc.) and how she might have felt about herself as an escape artist of sorts. Sent from my Pimped-out Flying Carpet On Mar 3, 2013, at 12:13 AM, Paul Ivice wrote: > Rian wrote: > > I am currently relistening Blue, and then on track #9, A Case of You, I > noticed > a little (rather silly) thing that intrigued me. > "I met a woman she had a mouth like yours" > Since the first time I heard the song - 2007, I always assume that woman was > the > man's mother. > But tonight it came to my mind that "the woman" can also be his sister, > cousin, > or some other girls who happened to have similar shape of mouth. > Since the first time I heard that song in the summer of 1971, I'd always > assumed Joni was referring to the shape of the mouth, but as I read Rian's > question it occurred to me that it could also be interpreted as someone who > cursed a lot, having a foul mouth like his. > > > > Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 19:25:33 -0500 From: Sally Subject: Re: Terminology Wow Mark...interesting. I had always read that attribution from the liner notes on the record in a much more abstract way. If it is in fact a "1", that would put a different spin on it. Although in keeping to form, she probably meant it in both senses. Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Mar 3, 2013, at 7:14 PM, "Mark" wrote: > From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': > > I would especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, New York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord and where 1 was. > > For years I read that as where bIb was. Then I either read an interview somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that she had written b1b and that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord structure (musicians, help me out here!). > > From Tom Scott referring to his first sessions with Joni on bFor the Rosesb: bBut with Joni it was different, because as gifted and talented and fantastic as she is, she has no technical knowledge whatsoever. She didn't even know the names of the notes on the piano. It's all feeling and instinct.b > > It seems that if she took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have known how to read elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the piano were. But I do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part in turning her off to formal musical training. When she started playing in open tunings on the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that interested her or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in her head. Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell by the wayside. She didnbt need to know the technical names, the names of the chords she was playing or even the notes. > > But it does seem that John Guerin taught her some of what chord and rhythmic structure - bthe root of the chord and where 1 wasb- were all about and it came in useful as she forged ahead into her bjazz periodb. > > Mark in Seattle > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sally > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM > To: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com > Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn > Subject: Re: Terminology > > Hey Jim, (et al) > Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the word "loupe" myself! Lol! Anymore we just bump the darn thing up on the PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm sure she knows her way around a loupe and lots of other photo equipment fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done any darkroom work! > As for the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always that like anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the inception...in this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). > > > Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > > > Dave Blackburn said in part, > > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the one > > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! > > seems very aware of technique and terminology.> > > > > Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her a proof sheet and she > > immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was slightly surprised that she > > knew the name for a photographer's magnifier. > > > > In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni thanked someone for > > teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a musician so I don't know > > that but I was surprised that she had made so many albums without that > > knowledge. > > > > Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:32:46 -0500 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: A mouth like yours. . . . and canada "She knew your life She knew your devil and your deeds." I always thought It was a lover of his . . A former lover. And this about "I drew a map of Canada." Love that line Have you ever tried to draw a map of Canada? With all her water bodies? Kind of difficult to draw the map. . Smile Take a look at a map (of Canada). xo Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 19:30:01 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. Joni's guitar technique in close up on this is just brilliant, Dave, as you say. What's quite interesting to me, as someone with a basic grasp of music theory, is Joni saying something along the lines (as I understood it) that the piano gave her more notes than the guitar. Part of the reason, so she says in this interview, for her alternative tunings was it gave more notes and colour to her guitar. I always felt Joni's piano playing really was quite limited and, with some exceptions, the piano songs no where in the league of her guitar playing in terms of the 'colour'. That syncopation you talk of Dave with her right hand on guitar - there's nothing quite like that for me in most of her piano songs. Maybe it's about her left hand not being very strong, which she mentions in the interview. Making up over 50 tunings to cover for a left hand that wasn't very strong and to find musical 'colour' was so innovative. Combine that a right hand that seems like it can do almost anything and you have a recipe for something special. I imagine you need 2 really good independent hands to play piano brilliantly.I don't think Joni had that, but maybe she could move into piano tuning. I wonder where that might lead! Anita On 03/03/2013, Dave Blackburn wrote: > I really enjoyed it too, especially the close ups of her wonderfully > syncopated right hand slap/upbrush/pluck technique and the custom made > guitar itself. > > But I remain curious why or even how someone as bright as Joni managed to > avoid learning almost anything about music theory. One would think she'd > want to know the names of her preferred chords so she could easily > communicate with her musicians. In some ways her understanding of music is > very much that of a novice (major chords are happy, minor chords are sad) > but of course the work she was able to produce was original and > sophisticated. Tom Scott said in a 1974 interview I just read, in advance of > our For The Roses concert on April 6th, that she didn't even know the names > of the notes on the piano back then when he first recorded with her; for > someone so inquisitive and brilliant that must have taken a lot of willpower > to prevent herself from learning basic stuff - in case, I imagine, she > feared it might detract from her purely emotional connection to the music. > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the one > she talks about in this Youtube, she seems very aware of technique and > terminology. > > Dave > > > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 9:43 AM, Anita G wrote: > >> Michael. this is a wonderful find. I have so enjoyed watching it and, >> like David, found the description of the guitar fascinating - and what >> I wouldn't give to see that guitar! In fact, the whole thing is >> fascinating. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:14:37 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Terminology From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': I would especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, New York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord and where 1 was. For years I read that as where bIb was. Then I either read an interview somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that she had written b1b and that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord structure (musicians, help me out here!). From Tom Scott referring to his first sessions with Joni on bFor the Rosesb: bBut with Joni it was different, because as gifted and talented and fantastic as she is, she has no technical knowledge whatsoever. She didn't even know the names of the notes on the piano. It's all feeling and instinct.b It seems that if she took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have known how to read elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the piano were. But I do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part in turning her off to formal musical training. When she started playing in open tunings on the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that interested her or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in her head. Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell by the wayside. She didnbt need to know the technical names, the names of the chords she was playing or even the notes. But it does seem that John Guerin taught her some of what chord and rhythmic structure - bthe root of the chord and where 1 wasb- were all about and it came in useful as she forged ahead into her bjazz periodb. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Sally Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM To: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Terminology Hey Jim, (et al) Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the word "loupe" myself! Lol! Anymore we just bump the darn thing up on the PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm sure she knows her way around a loupe and lots of other photo equipment fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done any darkroom work! As for the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always that like anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the inception...in this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > Dave Blackburn said in part, > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the one > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! > seems very aware of technique and terminology.> > > Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her a proof sheet and she > immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was slightly surprised that she > knew the name for a photographer's magnifier. > > In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni thanked someone for > teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a musician so I don't know > that but I was surprised that she had made so many albums without that > knowledge. > > Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:35:41 -0500 From: Richard Flynn Subject: Re: Old Lady of the Year Hollywood's Hot 100, I mean. Richard Flynn Professor of Literature Georgia Southern University https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn/ On Mar 3, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Les Irvin wrote: > Joniphiles - > Remember that "Old Lady of the Year" article/graph that Rolling Stone allegedly published in 1971ish? Does anyone have a copy of that? If I remember correctly, RS never really published anything using that phrase, but it's become an urban legend anyway. > I used to have a PDF of the actual from RS, but I can't put my finger on it. Anyone? > Thanks, > Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 09:21:35 -0700 (MST) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New Library item: LADY OF THE CANYON Title: LADY OF THE CANYON Publication: GUITAR WORLD Date: 2013.2.0 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2555 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 06:25:14 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Covers, Volume 80 - NEW LINK http://goo.gl/3m4E5 Trying a different url shortening service. Hopefully works for everyone. Happy grabbing. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 22:11:16 -0600 From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: A mouth like yours. . . . and canada Yeah, a bad mouth... Sent from my iPhone On Mar 3, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Michael Paz wrote: > is it the shape of the mouth and what it looks like or > was it the language (possibly foul) that it spoke?? > > Michael Paz > michael@thepazgroup.com > > > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 3:32 PM, Marianne Rizzo wrote: > > "She knew your life > She knew your devil and your deeds." > > I always thought It was a lover of his . . A former lover. > > And this about "I drew a map of Canada." Love that line > > Have you ever tried to draw a map of Canada? With all her water bodies? > Kind of difficult to draw the map. . > > Smile > > Take a look at a map (of Canada). > > xo > Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 01:20:46 -0500 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Re: voices book The book sold for $156 USD without shipping charges on eBay. Jim L Np: Bruce and the E Streeters on DVR >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com >> >> "voices" is the book of Joni's visual art, published for the show at the Mendel Gallery. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #87 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe