From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #42 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, January 31 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 042 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- 54 Below - Tales of Joni [Les Irvin ] TapeTreeS & The 2nd Fret [simon@icu.com] An appeal (2) ["John van Tiel" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2013 #165 [clive sax ] Re: Lyrics [Dave Blackburn ] Tales of Joni Mitchell @ 54 Below ["Kimel, Taryn" ] Re: Lyrics [Shari Eaton ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 08:18:49 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: 54 Below - Tales of Joni I have 2 pairs of tickets to give away for the "Tales of Joni" event at 54 Below in New York City. Event dates are January 31, February 5 and 18. If you can actually attend, let me know and I'll set you up. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:12:33 -0500 From: simon@icu.com Subject: TapeTreeS & The 2nd Fret Here's an older message and question from J. Gonzales > Hi all - long time lurker and almost non-poster since TTT came out! > I still enjoy following everything, though. > > I was wondering if anyone has digitized the old JMDL Tape Trees? > I was cleaning out some stuff and found my Troubadors of Folk show ('93?), Wells Fargo Theatre show > and the All Things Considered from May '93 in a box and wished I could listen to them again. If anyone > has an easy set of files or something to access (don't wanna put anyone out here), I'd love to be able to > bring those into my collection again! > > Jerome JEROME, I offered the JMDL TapeTree recordings to JMDL members in two formats. One could obtain Cassette recordings or DAT recordings. (DAT = Digital Audio Tape) There were also a few requests for VHS Hi-Fi recordings. Since the last TapeTree (April 1999), CDr copies of a number of the TapeTree recordings have been sent to members, and they of course, have shared them with other members. TapeTrees are no longer a preferred method of distribution in this the age of Digital UpLoads and DownLoads. All but two of the JMDL TapeTrees were Seeded from my collection. My collection began in 1971 and has been growing ever since. Recently I finally began the process of transferring all of my DAT recordings to a computer Hard Drive. This will make it a lot easier to continue sharing these recordings with JMDL members using a file transfer service such as YouSendIt, or DropBox. It's been slow going for a number of reasons, but I am making progress. STAY TUNED! Joni Music Will Be UpLoaded via YouSendIt, later today. andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simonM http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/ PS: for the benefit of those who don't know what a TapeTree WAS ... I include the following The TapeTree FAQ. TapeTree 101 MOTIVATION A little propaganda as to the motivation for running trees ... First and foremost it is to share with others quality Joni Mitchell music that others have been lucky enough to obtain. Trees also serve the purpose of helping new tape collectors to get their collections going. People who are new to tape collecting (or to Joni Mitchell's music) are welcome and encouraged to sign up for the Tape Trees. Another motivation for running trees is to try to discourage people from feeling the need to partake of the large commerical bootleg market out there. Commercial bootleg producers are largely seen to be disrespectful of an artist's rights by cashing in on the artist's music without any consideration for the artist. The TREE SEED The first step in the Tree process is finding the seed tape. A seed tape is the tape that will ultimately be used to make everyone's copy. These days recording equipment has gotten so small that almost every show gets taped one way or another. So it's important to seek out a tape worthy to seed the tree. The qualities that are important for a seed tape is that the sound quality be very good to excellent - or that the tape be of a critical event - regardless of quality. The sound quality for tapes degrades with each generation as hiss is introduced in the copying process (This is only true for analog tapes - DAT tapes do not suffer from that kind of degradation). So if we start off with a poor sounding seed tape, the leaf tapes (see below) will be unlistenable. Basically, the standards one uses to decide if a seed tape is "tree worthy" are subjective. They might therefore be lower if the seed is from an older show, or a show where no other copy exists - especially if the particular show includes a "rarity" of some kind. BRANCHES and LEAVES Once the seed is in hand, the next step is to select the branch leaders. The branch leaders are the folks who volunteer to spin 3 or 4 (up to 10!) copies of the show for the "Leaves", as in this inverted tree structure: Seed Tape | +----------+------------+----------+----------+ | | | | | Branch Branch Branch Branch Branch | | +---------+----------+---------+----------+----------+ | | | | | Leaf Leaf Leaf Leaf Leaf BRANCH LEADER SELECTION It would be nice if a tree only required the Tree Administator to make branch copies and the branch leaders make the leaf copies. However in practice there's more to it, since the tree administrator has to select the branch leaders. The criteria for branch leader selection is most heavily dependent on the quality of the dubbing equipment. In the best of worlds, all branch leaders would have two top of the line single decks (as opposed to dubbing decks) with 3 heads in the tape transports. This would ensure the best copies for everyone. In practice this is not likely, since most of us are not wealthy. Thus the tree administrator tries to ensure that the branch leaders have at least fairly good recording equipment. Another factor for branch leader selection that sometimes is used is to consider the track record of the branch volunteer in previous trees/trades. Ideally, again, we choose people who take the responsibility of being a branch leader seriously over those who have repeatedly caused delays. There are two ways the a tree gets going: The first is to find the seed, spin the branch tapes, open up the tree to everyone for sign-up, and THEN select the branch leaders from the general sign-up population. Another method is to have a separate call for branch leader volunteers BEFORE the tree is opened up for leaf sign-up. This makes the administration a bit easier, and in some cases gives the branch leaders a little breathing room because they can get their copies before the full tree structure gets posted. DISTRIBUTING BRANCH TAPES Once the branch leaders are chosen, the Tree Administator makes arrangements to send the branch tapes to the branch leaders. This can be accomplished by either arranging a tape trade for the branch tapes, sending blanks plus return postage, or in some cases sending cash ONLY for the price of the blank tapes and postage. The practice of sending "double blanks" for TreeTapes is not allowed! If you are asked to 'PAY' in any way for the music - please blow the whistle on the culprit. You should be willing to make your fellow Joni fans a copy of the show for just the blanks it would take to make the copy, plus return postage. Not everyone agrees with this practice but it will true for all Trees "sanctioned" by the Joni list. GATHERING LEAVES Now that the branch leaders have their tapes, the next step is to open the tree for general sign-up. Trees are run in a spirit of international cooperation, so it may be necessary to have branches in Canada, Europe, Australia and elsewhere. The branch leaders from each nation take care of the leaves from their particular regions, where possible, to simplify mailing and currency transactions (where necessary). However sometimes there will be a fan from another nation on a branch. The tree administrator should get the okay from the branch leader before assigning such leaves to them, though. The tree is generally open for sign-up for 2-4 weeks. After the sign-up is closed, the tree structure is designed and then posted to the list. The BRANCH - LEAF Connection Note: Leaves are responsible for contacting their branch leader to make arrangements for obtaining their tapes! If you, the leaf, have something to trade for your tape(s) then by all means set up a trade. If you have nothing to trade, just send blanks and return postage. After all, one of the motives for running trees is to help beginners get started. Note that it's not cool to trade for blanks just to save yourself some trouble. If you've got trade material, take the effort to make a trade with the branch leader - after all, that branch leader's got a lot more work to do than you do, so help to make him or her happy (so that they will do it again and again and keep the trees going!) Branch leaders and leaves should arrange recording criteria (i.e. Dolby) amongst themselves. Sometimes the tree administrator will arrange to have certain branches that are "Dolby only" or "No-Dolby only". But generally the Branch leader gets a Dolby-B tape unless special arrangements are made. DISTRIBUTING LEAF TAPES If you have set up a trade with your branch leader, this part is easy. Just mail your trade tape to the branch leader and then they will mail you the Tree tape. If you are trading for blanks, send the blank tapes in a padded envelope (suitable for sending your tape back to you) and enough postage to cover the cost of mailing the tape back to you. That's generally about $1.00-$1.25, for a single tape (in the US). Please include your name, address, and email address with any blank tape you send, along with a note specifying what tree the blank tape is for. Since tree administrators and branch leaders have several trees/trades going on at once, this is very important! PET PEEVES * Branch leaders who don't take their responsibilities seriously. Don't volunteer to be a branch leader if you're not going to have the time to make the copies you VOLUNTEERED for. * Leaves that disappear. Please don't sign up for the tree if you're not serious about wanting a copy. Sure, legitimate reasons arise that can cause you to be unable to fulfill your committments. If this is the case, you should contact the involved parties to alert them. * Lack of feedback from leaves. If you have trouble arranging to get your tapes from your branch leader, or if you think your copy sounds like crap, please inform the tree administrator. On the other hand, please make a good faith effort to resolve your difficulties with your branch leader. * Lack of Return Postage when trading blanks. Lots of folks forget this! CAVEATS * If you know you are going to be away in the next few weeks after tree sign-up, (e.g., for Spring Break, vacation, etc.) please let your branch leader (or your leaves, if YOU are a branch leader) know. If necessary, let the tree administrator know. Inevitably some people just up and disappear after they sign up for a tree. * Important! Leaves are responsible for contacting their branch leader to arrange to get their tapes! End of FAQ. One Final Point LEAVES, Please Note Re: Blanks 'n Postage Although it may be easier for YOU to send your Branch a money order to cover the *costs* of your copies, it is *not* necessarily easiest for your Branch. Remember this means the Branch has to buy cassettes, mailer, address a package, and take it to the post office. All this is in addition dubbing up to 5-Sets of Tapes. The fairest method is for YOU to purchase your own cassettes. Enclose your cassettes in a padded envelope. This envelope should be *self-addressed* *with* postage. This self-addressed, padded envelope w/Your cassettes can then be placed in a slighly larger envelope and mailed off to your Branch, who can now just drop your package in a mailbox once your copies are dubbed. Clean and Simple. In the end though, work it out with your BranchLeader. There are some really nice folks here on the JMDL and they will be happy to work with you and ensure that you receive your copies as quickly as possible. That's about all for now folks. I DO hope that everyone enjoys this group of recordings. I'm sure you will. There's some truly wonderful music included this time. - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:52:38 +0100 From: "John van Tiel" Subject: An appeal (2) A few days ago I appealed to you, because my financial situation is such that I am threatened to lose my home. My stroke has paralyzed me so much that I have hardly been able to work and my income dropped by over 80%. 4 of you have reacted and I want to thank you for that. However, I am still in financial dire straits. I spent a significant amount of my savings on my sabbatical trip of Europe after Claudia and I parted ways and before my stroke. The medical collapse came completely unexpected and at the worst time in my financial life. The recovery period ate up all the remainder in medical costs as I also broke my arm and tore my Achilles heel during the recovery, which made it even worse (shopping was a crime and an expedition as I could not walk). By law I have no right to a state income here in the Netherlands . I still have medical help at homr 4 times a week (I cannot wash myself, I need a nurse to do that). But will I have a home? This is why I appeal to you once again to please help me financially. Please please please. I need money to eat and to keep my home. My address at Paypal is: johnvantiel@home.nl. I have always considered the JMDL as the combined friends that I was always looking for in my life, and they have always came up to that. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:58:48 +0000 From: clive sax Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2013 #165 Subject: Re: buffy / joni NJC Does anyone know what she means by 'don't make snakes out of worms'?> In the UK we have an idiom 'Don't make mountains out of molehills' The meaning of the expression, which I assume to be similar to worms and snakes is to not make something big out of something small or a slight difficulty into a huge problem. That kind of thing. > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:09:33 -0500 > From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #165 > > > JMDL Digest Tuesday, January 29 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 165 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: buffy / joni NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] > Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] > An appeal (2) ["John van Tiel" ] > Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #150 [Rozanne Gates ] > Re: Shawn Colvin live stream tonight (Jan 25), 8 pm PST (free!) [Lori Ren] > Re: Lyrics [Catherine McKay ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:28:13 -0500 > From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Subject: Re: buffy / joni NJC > > Does anyone know what she means by 'don't make snakes out of worms'?> > > I didn't see the videos but I'm guessing that she's saying that you > shouldn't make something that is essentially harmless into something > that's potentially dangerous. Worms are very soil enriching and I get a > lot less spooked when I see a worm as opposed to seeing a snake. Having > said that, snakes get a bad rap - only a very few will cause us any harm, > most just slither around and keep the rodent population in check. Plus, > "Worms and Ladders" doesn't have the same ring. > > Bob > - ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > - ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:18:10 -0500 > From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) > > I don't have a gun, never have and never will. While I'm not a fan of > hunting, I have many friends who are. Having a gun for self-defense is > another matter. > > Fear is always the best salesman. The pro-gun folks always paint a picture > of an intruder breaking into your home and there you are poised and ready > with your gun and you blow him or her away. Well, most intruders are going > to break into your home when it's empty as opposed to facing a > confrontation. Odds are that of the things they steal, the gun will be > one. Also, according to statistics, if you have a gun in your home, the > more likely scenario is that YOU will get shot with your own gun by > someone you know. Having a dog is a MUCH better deterrent than having a > gun. Hardly a week goes by in SC that does not see a young kid getting > shot and/or killed because a careless gun owner left one out. > > As for the need to solve the problem by putting MORE guns out there, we've > all seen the photo of Reagan, surrounded by dudes with guns, right before > he got shot. Columbine HAD an armed security guard. Fort Hood was > populated with guys with guns. Seems like unless you're prepared to > constantly walk around with your gun drawn it's not going to do you a > whole lot of good. And as Lori says, who the heck wants to live like that? > > Bob > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > - ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:52:38 +0100 > From: "John van Tiel" > Subject: An appeal (2) > > A few days ago I appealed to you, because my financial situation is such > that I am threatened to lose my home. My stroke has paralyzed me so much > that I have hardly been able to work and my income dropped by over 80%. 4 of > you have reacted and I want to thank you for that. However, I am still in > financial dire straits. I spent a significant amount of my savings on my > sabbatical trip of Europe after Claudia and I parted ways and before my > stroke. The medical collapse came completely unexpected and at the worst > time in my financial life. The recovery period ate up all the remainder in > medical costs as I also broke my arm and tore my Achilles heel during the > recovery, which made it even worse (shopping was a crime and an expedition > as I could not walk). By law I have no right to a state income here in the > Netherlands . I still have medical help at homr 4 times a week (I cannot > wash myself, I need a nurse to do that). But will I have a home? > > This is why I appeal to you once again to please help me financially. Please > please please. I need money to eat and to keep my home. My address at Paypal > is: johnvantiel@home.nl. I have always considered the JMDL as the combined > friends that I was always looking for in my life, and they have always came > up to that. Thank you. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:38:33 -0500 > From: Rozanne Gates > Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #150 > > Brilliant assessment Lori. > > Rozanne Gates > > > on 1/28/13 7:45 PM, JMDL Digest at owner-joni-digest@smoe.org wrote: > > > > > JMDL Digest Monday, January 28 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 150 > > > > > > > > ========== > > > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > > -------- > > Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) [Lori Renee Fye > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 00:44:36 +0000 > > From: Lori Renee Fye > > Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) > > > >> They've managed to manipulate the news > >> to target patriotic feelings that people > >> have...right to bear arms > > > > I recently wrote something on Facebook about this "right to bear arms" > > nonsense. I really don't know why it's so difficult to understand what the > > framers of the Constitution and its Amendments meant. Those men knew very > > well the proper usage of punctuation -- in particular the comma and the > > semicolon -- and it's very obvious to me what they intended. Let's use the > > First and Second Amendments as examples. > > > > The text of the First Amendment is as follows: > > > > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > > prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, > > or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to > > petition the Government for a redress of grievances." > > > > Notice that the First Amendment contains semicolons. > > > > The reason it contains semicolons is because you can take the First > > Amendment apart, so that its phrases can stand alone. All of it is still > > the law, but one part is not dependent upon another part, or the entire > > Amendment, to be the law. In other words, there are three parts to the > > First Amendment, and they operate independently. > > > > In other words: > > > > 1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > > prohibiting the free exercise thereof. > > > > 2) Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the > > press. > > > > 3) Congress shall make no law abridging the right of the people peaceably > > to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. > > > > You don't have to be able to freely exercise religion or speech in order to > > peaceably assemble. You certainly CAN freely exercise religion or speech > > while assembling, but you can also assemble and not say a word at all, or > > even pray. (Oh, and by the way, the very first line in the First Amendment > > means that Christianity is not, and never has been, and hopefully never > > will be, the national religion of the United States.) > > > > The text of the Second Amendment is as follows: > > > > "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, > > the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." > > > > There is not a semicolon in the entire text of the Second Amendment. All of > > its parts were meant to be considered together as a whole. > > > > There really is no other way to interpret this, as it relies on basic, > > established rules of English, particularly as they were established at the > > time the Constitution and the Amendments were written. > > > > Note the key words "well regulated" and "Militia." If the framers of the > > Constitution and the Amendments had intended for every citizen to have the > > right to keep and bear Arms, the Amendment would say, simply: "The right > > of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." > > > > That's not what it says, however. > > > > Therefore, citizens who are not members of a state's National Guard or some > > other well regulated militia do not have a Constitutional right to keep and > > bear Arms. > > > >> right to illegally bomb other countries back into > >> the Stone Age on the off chance they might be > >> doing something we think is bad, etc. > > > > I don't understand why the rest of the world puts up with that, > > particularly from the only country that ever used something as horrifying > > as the bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. > > > > Lori > > Wales > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #150 > > ***************************** > > > > ------- > > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > > ------- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:16:03 +0000 > From: Lori Renee Fye > Subject: Re: Shawn Colvin live stream tonight (Jan 25), 8 pm PST (free!) > > Wow ... I'd been wondering what happened to this post. It was a nice show. > Hope some of you were able to catch it. > > Lori > Wales > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:02:55 -0800 (PST) > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: Lyrics > > One more thing and then I'll shut up about it. > > She may also be talking about > anti-war demonstrators within the US itself, people who were literally beaten > with sticks by police and National Guard and so on. > >________________________________ > > From: Catherine McKay > > >To: "jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com" > ; Dave Blackburn > >Cc: > JMDL > >Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:48:58 AM > >Subject: > Re: Lyrics > > > > > >I'm not a historian, but I don't think Joni is writing as a > Canadian, but as someone on the "other" side, whatever side that might happen > to be. Thinking back on my scant historical knowledge, I can't think of a time > that Canada has entered into a war to side with the US. If anything, formerly > as a colony and then as a member of the Commonwealth, we, along with > Australia, New Zealand and others, went along with Great Britain. We were in > WWI and WWII well before the USA, because we were supporting Great Britain. We > had some involvement in the Korean Conflict, as did other members of the > Commonwealth. We didn't get involved in Viet Nam, or Iraq. We have had, still > have, people in Afghanistan and parts of Africa, as part of a UN Peacekeeping > Force. > > > >I believe Joni is talking about how one country can be allies with > another and > then things turn and your former friend suddenly becomes the > enemy. ("You say we have turned, like the enemies you've earned, but we can > remember the good things you are." She's lamenting what the US once > represented, and that it has become a warmongering nation and that, at any > moment, it can turn against its former allies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>________________________________ > >> From: "jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com" > > >>To: Dave Blackburn > >>Cc: JMDL > >>Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 4:52:55 PM > >>Subject: Lyrics > >> > >>>I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your > sticks and cry and I > >>fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my > friend." To me that > >>makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its > allies into going along > >>with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively > that it is "fall"?> > >> > >>No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I > remember right, we were > >>hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics > and poems but it did not > >>update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". > >> > >>While > this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. > >> > >>I > like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. Instead > >>Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She > calls Johnny "my good friend" > >>after all. > >> > >>Jim L > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #165 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 06:09:28 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Lyrics Thanks for all the insight on this question everyone. I am persuaded that the word is "fall" and I see how it might be shorthand for a turn of phrase like "we fall into line" or "we fall for it" but it still strikes me as slightly clumsy for Joni. Does anyone else feel that? Dave On Jan 28, 2013, at 5:46 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > Mark, that makes perfect sense to me. > > From: Mark > To: Richard Flynn ; 'Catherine McKay' ; jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com; 'Dave Blackburn' > Cc: 'JMDL' > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:12:08 PM > Subject: Re: Lyrics > > ... > > I think raising the drum sticks and crying out represents the fearsome power of the U.S. war machine and could also very well refer to the harsh treatment of people who joined together to protest the Viet Nam war. But I also think there is a reference to the drums that once led soldiers into battle. The fall, in that case, is the fall of men in battle. > > Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:51:04 -0500 From: "Kimel, Taryn" Subject: Tales of Joni Mitchell @ 54 Below For those list members in the New York City, I wanted to extend a special offer. The cabaret 54 Below is currently presenting the show "Tales of Joni Mitchell," an intimate, unique take of Joni's remarkable songbook presented by a cast of Broadway and cabaret luminaries. Broadway.com describes the show as a "must-see" and says that "the classic songs are arranged and performed with a freshness that gives the music and lyrics new clarity, much like watching your favorite film in high-def." "Tales of Joni Mitchell" has two final performances this week, Wednesday the 30th and Thursday the 31st, at 9:30pm. While the cover charge for the Main Dining Room is regularly $35, Joni fans can use the code JONISOCIAL to receive $5 off either of these shows. More information can be found at http://54below.com/wordpress/?artist=tales-of-joni. We hope you'll join us! Taryn Kimel 54 Below CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or prior e-mail messages attached to it, are intended solely for the use of the named addressees, and may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:22:33 -0800 From: "Eaton, Shari" Subject: Re: Lyrics Hi Dave, Just wanted to respond and say that I do appreciate the analysis, the questioning. Your very minor critique has not diminished my admiration for either song. Shari On Jan 28, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > Shari, I certainly didn't intend to diminish your love for the song, which I too greatly admire, especially the insight behind the line "like the enemies you've earned" - dig the wisdom there - but I feel like her choice of "fall" was a little weak. Similarly her use of "shine" almost forty years later felt like a word rather emptied of its power through over use in song lyrics and pop psychology. Elsewhere in The Fiddle and the Drum she is in top form, working the war and peace metaphors in the title, and going further to set up the handshake/fist duality in the second verse. It was this sense of the weakness of the verb "fall" in this context that got me wondering whether in fact it was "follow", which I still find more cogent, accurate and insightful even if that is in fact not what she wrote. > > Dave > > > On Jan 28, 2013, at 7:56 AM, Shari Eaton wrote: > >> I have always loved this song and 'We fall, oh my friend' has a hand in that love. It's unique, unexpected and guides the emotions really well. I'd be more curious to understand how you could possibly find it clumsy. >> >> >> On Jan 28, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Dave Blackburn wrote: >> >>> Thanks for all the insight on this question everyone. I am persuaded that the >>> word is "fall" and I see how it might be shorthand for a turn of phrase like >>> "we fall into line" or "we fall for it" but it still strikes me as slightly >>> clumsy for Joni. Does anyone else feel that? >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 5:46 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: >>> >>>> Mark, that makes perfect sense to me. >>>> >>>> From: Mark >>>> To: Richard Flynn ; 'Catherine McKay' >>> ; jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com; 'Dave Blackburn' >>> >>>> Cc: 'JMDL' >>>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:12:08 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Lyrics >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>>> I think raising the drum sticks and crying out represents the fearsome power >>> of the U.S. war machine and could also very well refer to the harsh treatment >>> of people who joined together to protest the Viet Nam war. But I also think >>> there is a reference to the drums that once led soldiers into battle. The >>> fall, in that case, is the fall of men in battle. >>>> >>>> Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:56:15 -0800 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: Lyrics I have always loved this song and 'We fall, oh my friend' has a hand in that love. It's unique, unexpected and guides the emotions really well. I'd be more curious to understand how you could possibly find it clumsy. On Jan 28, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > Thanks for all the insight on this question everyone. I am persuaded that the > word is "fall" and I see how it might be shorthand for a turn of phrase like > "we fall into line" or "we fall for it" but it still strikes me as slightly > clumsy for Joni. Does anyone else feel that? > > Dave > > > > On Jan 28, 2013, at 5:46 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > >> Mark, that makes perfect sense to me. >> >> From: Mark >> To: Richard Flynn ; 'Catherine McKay' > ; jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com; 'Dave Blackburn' > >> Cc: 'JMDL' >> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:12:08 PM >> Subject: Re: Lyrics >> >> ... >> >> I think raising the drum sticks and crying out represents the fearsome power > of the U.S. war machine and could also very well refer to the harsh treatment > of people who joined together to protest the Viet Nam war. But I also think > there is a reference to the drums that once led soldiers into battle. The > fall, in that case, is the fall of men in battle. >> >> Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #42 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe