From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #36 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, January 27 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 036 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- joni's yearbook [Marianne Rizzo ] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #124 [ChamberMuseInk@aol.com] Recording Artist Joni Mitchell High School YB~Cary~Free Man in Paris~Help Me~++ [Shari Eaton ] "Tales Of Joni" - Trip Report [Bob Muller ] Re: Lyrics [Dave Blackburn ] Re: Lyrics [Catherine McKay ] Re: Lyrics ["Mark" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 07:20:00 -0500 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: joni's yearbook Thank you Shari, That particular link did not seem to work for me. so peruhaps you can try this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/GRAMMY-WINNING-FOLK-SINGER-JONI-MITCHELL-SENIOR-HIGH- SCHOOL-YEARBOOK-VERY-RARE-/221180849535?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337f67 ed7f I am glad you posted this. I had seen the picture before . . it is so cute. But I had not seen the quote. . . "you go to my head like a haunting refrain." I love that intensity. . I love scorpios. I never had a scorpio lover before. . (I don't think I have) I like their depth. that's a discussion we could have. . lovers and their astrology signs. . I love it that joni has such depth of emotion. This depth of her emotion also is for the planet and all important things. Marianne From: Shari Eaton Subject: Joni's yearbook ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 08:41:48 -0500 (EST) From: ChamberMuseInk@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #124 Of possible interest. This link was sent from my friend John Knowles; _http://dangerousminds.net/comments/joni_mitchell_amazing_live_bbc_in_concer t_performance_from_1970_ (http://dangerousminds.net/comments/joni_mitchell_amazing_live_bbc_in_concert_performance_from_1970) In a message dated 1/27/2013 3:21:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org writes: JMDL Digest Sunday, January 27 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 124 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Re: Lyrics [Dave Blackburn ] Re: Lyrics [David Lahm ] RE: Lyrics ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Lyrics [Catherine McKay ] Re: Lyrics [Dave Blackburn ] the fiddle and the drum lyrics [Marianne Rizzo ] Re: Lyrics ["David J. Phillips" ] Lyrics [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] Re: Lyrics [Catherine McKay ] Joni's yearbook [Shari Eaton ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:41:02 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Lyrics Okay, that sounds pretty definitive, Richard and David. On Jan 25, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Richard Flynn wrote: > I think that the lyrics as printed on the gatefold are "I fall, / Oh my friend" and the repetition "we fall, / Of my friend" is definitive evidence against "follow." > > Richard Flynn > Professor of Literature > Georgia Southern University > https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn/ > > > On Jan 25, 2013, at 5:35 PM, David Lahm wrote: > >> Isn't there a (slight) pause in the vocal after the word (which sounds >> like) "fall?" To my ear, no way she meant "follow." To say nothing of the >> line "...you are fighting us all." >> >> LAHM >> >> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 4:52 PM, wrote: >> >>>> I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I >>> fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that >>> makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along >>> with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> >>> >>> No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were >>> hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not >>> update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". >>> >>> While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. >>> >>> I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. >>> Instead >>> Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" >>> after all. >>> >>> Jim L - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:35:34 -0500 From: David Lahm Subject: Re: Lyrics Isn't there a (slight) pause in the vocal after the word (which sounds like) "fall?" To my ear, no way she meant "follow." To say nothing of the line "...you are fighting us all." LAHM On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 4:52 PM, wrote: > >I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I > fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that > makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along > with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> > > No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were > hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not > update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". > > While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. > > I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. > Instead > Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" > after all. > > Jim L - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:16:40 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Lyrics "This is a song I wrote for America as a Canadian living in this country"--Joni on the Dick Cavett show, August 18, 1969: http://jonimitchell.com/library/video.cfm?id=27 - - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:49 AM To: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com; Dave Blackburn Cc: JMDL Subject: Re: Lyrics I'm not a historian, but I don't think Joni is writing as a Canadian, but as someone on the "other" side, whatever side that might happen to be. Thinking back on my scant historical knowledge, I can't think of a time that Canada has entered into a war to side with the US. If anything, formerly as a colony and then as a member of the Commonwealth, we, along with Australia, New Zealand and others, went along with Great Britain. We were in WWI and WWII well before the USA, because we were supporting Great Britain. We had some involvement in the Korean Conflict, as did other members of the Commonwealth. We didn't get involved in Viet Nam, or Iraq. We have had, still have, people in Afghanistan and parts of Africa, as part of a UN Peacekeeping Force. I believe Joni is talking about how one country can be allies with another and then things turn and your former friend suddenly becomes the enemy. ("You say we have turned, like the enemies you've earned, but we can remember the good things you are." She's lamenting what the US once represented, and that it has become a warmongering nation and that, at any moment, it can turn against its former allies. >________________________________ > From: "jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com" >To: Dave Blackburn >Cc: JMDL >Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 4:52:55 PM >Subject: Lyrics > >>I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I >fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that >makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along >with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> > >No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were >hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not >update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". > >While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. > >I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. Instead >Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" >after all. > >Jim L - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 12:15:33 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lyrics I can kind of empathize with that. I remember going to the US on family vacations as a child and just thinking Americans were a lot like us. As an adult going there, I had a completely different feeling. You guys scare the crap out of me! >________________________________ > From: Richard Flynn >To: 'Catherine McKay' ; jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com; 'Dave Blackburn' >Cc: 'JMDL' >Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 1:16:40 PM >Subject: RE: Lyrics > >"This is a song I wrote for America as a Canadian living in this >country"--Joni on the Dick Cavett show, August 18, 1969: > >http://jonimitchell.com/library/video.cfm?id=27 - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:07:14 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Lyrics Ooh, I like that theory, Catherine. I had assumed "we" was Canadians but anti-war protesters in 1969 sounds very plausible. > One more thing and then I'll shut up about it. > > She may also be talking about anti-war demonstrators within the US itself, people who were literally beaten with sticks by police and National Guard and so on. - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 21:59:15 -0500 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: the fiddle and the drum lyrics love the question. I think it is: "and I fall, oh my friend." or maybe that is just what I always thought *I LOVE this song. . . peace and the star Marianne I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I >> fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that >> makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along >> with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 12:54:14 -0500 From: "David J. Phillips" Subject: Re: Lyrics that's what I always thought it was about. djp On 26/01/13 12:0255, Catherine McKay wrote: > One more thing and then I'll shut up about it. > > She may also be talking about > anti-war demonstrators within the US itself, people who were literally beaten > with sticks by police and National Guard and so on. - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:52:55 -0500 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Lyrics >I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. Instead Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" after all. Jim L - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 08:48:58 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lyrics I'm not a historian, but I don't think Joni is writing as a Canadian, but as someone on the "other" side, whatever side that might happen to be. Thinking back on my scant historical knowledge, I can't think of a time that Canada has entered into a war to side with the US. If anything, formerly as a colony and then as a member of the Commonwealth, we, along with Australia, New Zealand and others, went along with Great Britain. We were in WWI and WWII well before the USA, because we were supporting Great Britain. We had some involvement in the Korean Conflict, as did other members of the Commonwealth. We didn't get involved in Viet Nam, or Iraq. We have had, still have, people in Afghanistan and parts of Africa, as part of a UN Peacekeeping Force. I believe Joni is talking about how one country can be allies with another and then things turn and your former friend suddenly becomes the enemy. ("You say we have turned, like the enemies you've earned, but we can remember the good things you are." She's lamenting what the US once represented, and that it has become a warmongering nation and that, at any moment, it can turn against its former allies. >________________________________ > From: "jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com" >To: Dave Blackburn >Cc: JMDL >Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 4:52:55 PM >Subject: Lyrics > >>I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I >fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that >makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along >with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> > >No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were >hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not >update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". > >While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. > >I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. Instead >Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" >after all. > >Jim L - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 23:00:48 -0800 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Joni's yearbook http://www.ebay.com/itm/Recording-Artist-Joni-Mitchell-High-School-YB-Cary-F r ee-Man-in-Paris-Help-Me-/350672185898?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a5b0e a 2 Wish I had the purse for this! Sent from my Pimped-out Flying Carpet - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #124 ***************************** - ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 10:01:44 -0800 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Recording Artist Joni Mitchell High School YB~Cary~Free Man in Paris~Help Me~++ I saw that one too. Maybe this link will work. End time: Feb 15, 2013 12:00:24 AM PST View item: Recording Artist Joni Mitchell High School YB~Cary~Free Man in Paris~Help Me~++ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:07:14 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Lyrics Ooh, I like that theory, Catherine. I had assumed "we" was Canadians but anti-war protesters in 1969 sounds very plausible. > One more thing and then I'll shut up about it. > > She may also be talking about anti-war demonstrators within the US itself, people who were literally beaten with sticks by police and National Guard and so on. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:37:30 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: "Tales Of Joni" - Trip Report Hi All - Wanted to give a quick report on the "Tales of Joni" Cabaret show I attended on Thursday night. Firstly, a big thanks to my friend Paul for pushing me off the fence and offering up his apartment. Meeting us there was Patrick, looking even more youthful than the last time I hung out with him. Not sure how he does that but it was great to see him. The venue, 54Below, is so named because it's below the old Studio 54, and indeed their pre-show music was old classic disco. The spot resembles an old speakeasy, they feature a nice beer and wine selection as well as some great food. I had some grilled shrimp (not Paz quality but still quite fine) and some Risotto. But I didn't make the trip for the food, so let's get to the show... Here's the quote from the program: "Welcome to our celebration of all things Joni Mitchell. We're delighted to celebrate the music of a woman who has penned hundreds of compositions, each more intriguing than the next. That said, due to her prolificness & with advance apologies, chances are that we may not get to your favorite Joni tune this eve. Each of Joni's tunes speak to different people in different ways, and at different times in their lives. So tonight, we've selected twenty tunes that speak to us the most, and will hopefully resonate with you as well. You'll hear them one after another with little interruption - - Joni's music speaks more than well enough for itself. We warmly invite you to sit back and listen as she tells her stories and weaves her musical tales. Crawl inside the notes - see where she takes you." The Cast: Lisa Asher Annie Golden Heather MacRae Nicholas Rodriguez Julie Reyburn Gabrielle Stravelli The Musicians: Mark Hartman - piano/music director Dan McMillan - drums Craig Wilson - guitar Saadi Zain - acoustic bass The setlist: Be Cool - - Gabrielle Stravelli Woodstock - Cast Raised On Robbery - Lisa w/Gabrielle & Julie For Free - Annie Golden Conversation - Nicholas Rodriguez Little Green - Heather MacRae People's Parties - Julie Reyburn Woman Of Heart And Mind - Gabrielle Stravelli A Case Of You - Nicholas Rodriguez Chelsea Morning - Annie Golden That Song About The Midway Cactus Tree - Gabrielle Stravelli Carey - Julie Reyburn This Flight Tonight - Annie Golden River - Nicholas Rodriguez I Don't Know Where I Stand - Heather MacRae Both Sides Now - Lisa Asher The Circle Game - Cast Night Ride Home - Julie Reyburn (Note - although the program said 20, there were 19 songs. Not sure if they figured nobody would notice or they cut a song between the time they printed the program and executed the show.) All three of us agreed that the night belonged to Gabrielle and Nicholas. Be Cool was great and a great way to kick things off, albeit a high bar to set. Her voice was powerful and she wasn't afraid to take the melodies in some creative directions while emoting every word and really feeling the lyrics. Nicholas was the same, and really threw us a curve with Conversation when he included the "extra" verse that Joni didn't include on the final recording. He told us that a friend had sent him a recording with the bonus verse and he wanted to include it. His style was very emotional and dramatic, and it also re-imagined this song as sung from a man to his lover who cannot extricate himself from his straight relationship. Very powerful. Raised on Robbery featured a clever inclusion of the 'shoo bop bop bops' from BYT and frankly I was glad they omitted that one. I was disappointed in their song selections, as is always the case so heavily weighted towards her early stuff and totally skipping HOSL and Hejira as well as her Grammy-winning TI. So many of those songs that would translate brilliantly to these voices and this space. Maybe Tales of Joni 2 will be more creative in this regard. Heather MacRae (Gordon's daughter for those of you who remember him) was a tad under the weather and really the only performance I felt was "I Don't Know Where I Stand" which featured a great arrangement, forcing her to venture away from a perfunctory reading of the song. Annie Golden's voice was very pixie-esque and sounded a bit strange but was still enjoyable. She tripped over some words and her take on This Flight Tonight was my favorite of hers. Julie and Lisa were both good singers but didn't seem too invested in the lyrics or the feelings of them. They didn't make any goofs but didn't give me any WOW moments whereas Gabrielle and Nicholas gave me one after another, even singing warhorses like River and ACOY that I've heard a thousand times. The musicians were very talented - Hartman threw in several nice piano solos and Saadi Zain's standup bass was plucked as well as bowed. They all gave fine support to the voices and the arrangements were often very creative. I was fortunate to be able to meet with most of the performers after the show - they were all extremely kind and appreciative of Joni. There are still two more performances left, so if you can make it out, it's a great intimate night with a roomful of top-notch talent and a couple of songs that may bring out a little water in the eye: http://54below.com/wordpress/?artist=tales-of-joni Thanks again to Paul for his hospitality and to Patrick for braving the nasty harsh cold to meet us out there. Good food, good friends, good Joni! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:41:02 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Lyrics Okay, that sounds pretty definitive, Richard and David. On Jan 25, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Richard Flynn wrote: > I think that the lyrics as printed on the gatefold are "I fall, / Oh my friend" and the repetition "we fall, / Of my friend" is definitive evidence against "follow." > > Richard Flynn > Professor of Literature > Georgia Southern University > https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn/ > > > On Jan 25, 2013, at 5:35 PM, David Lahm wrote: > >> Isn't there a (slight) pause in the vocal after the word (which sounds >> like) "fall?" To my ear, no way she meant "follow." To say nothing of the >> line "...you are fighting us all." >> >> LAHM >> >> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 4:52 PM, wrote: >> >>>> I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I >>> fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that >>> makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along >>> with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> >>> >>> No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were >>> hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not >>> update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". >>> >>> While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. >>> >>> I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. >>> Instead >>> Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" >>> after all. >>> >>> Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 08:48:58 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lyrics I'm not a historian, but I don't think Joni is writing as a Canadian, but as someone on the "other" side, whatever side that might happen to be. Thinking back on my scant historical knowledge, I can't think of a time that Canada has entered into a war to side with the US. If anything, formerly as a colony and then as a member of the Commonwealth, we, along with Australia, New Zealand and others, went along with Great Britain. We were in WWI and WWII well before the USA, because we were supporting Great Britain. We had some involvement in the Korean Conflict, as did other members of the Commonwealth. We didn't get involved in Viet Nam, or Iraq. We have had, still have, people in Afghanistan and parts of Africa, as part of a UN Peacekeeping Force. I believe Joni is talking about how one country can be allies with another and then things turn and your former friend suddenly becomes the enemy. ("You say we have turned, like the enemies you've earned, but we can remember the good things you are." She's lamenting what the US once represented, and that it has become a warmongering nation and that, at any moment, it can turn against its former allies. >________________________________ > From: "jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com" >To: Dave Blackburn >Cc: JMDL >Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 4:52:55 PM >Subject: Lyrics > >>I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I >fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that >makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along >with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> > >No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were >hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not >update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". > >While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. > >I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. Instead >Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" >after all. > >Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:12:08 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Lyrics In light of the quote from Joni's Dick Cavett show appearance that Richard provided, I think she probably was speaking as a Canadian. I don't think the song would necessarily have to be seen from that point of view. But since Canada is the U.S.'s neighbor that we mostly share a common language with, it seems logical to me. Also, Canada was the most popular place of refuge for young men who did not want to be drafted and sent to serve in Viet Nam. I was just doing some poking around on the internet, looking for information about military drummers. At one time they were sent with the troops into battle, mostly to maintain marching paces. The song is mostly symbolic. That makes me think that on one level, Joni was referring to drum sticks when she wrote 'you raise your sticks and cry and I/we fall'. The fiddle equals an instrument of peace whereas the drum is the instrument of war. The handshake equals friendship and accord. The fist equals aggression and conflict. I think raising the drum sticks and crying out represents the fearsome power of the U.S. war machine and could also very well refer to the harsh treatment of people who joined together to protest the Viet Nam war. But I also think there is a reference to the drums that once led soldiers into battle. The fall, in that case, is the fall of men in battle. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Richard Flynn Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 10:16 AM To: 'Catherine McKay' ; jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com ; 'Dave Blackburn' Cc: 'JMDL' Subject: RE: Lyrics "This is a song I wrote for America as a Canadian living in this country"--Joni on the Dick Cavett show, August 18, 1969: http://jonimitchell.com/library/video.cfm?id=27 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #36 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe