From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #419 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, December 12 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 419 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: One word [Catherine McKay ] The Entertainers Interview from 1974 [Les Irvin ] Re: The Entertainers Interview from 1974 [Anita ] RE: The Entertainers Interview from 1974 [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: One word [Catherine McKay ] One word [Betsy ] RE: how many suscribers really? ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 [Victor Johnson ] One word [kenevans kenevans ] Re: how many suscribers really? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: how many suscribers really? [Catherine McKay ] re: New Yorker essay by Zadie Smith [joe farrell ] Re: how many suscribers really? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 [Catherine McKay ] RE: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: how many suscribers really? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: New Yorker essay by Zadie Smith [Sally ] Re: Zadie Smith article [Catherine McKay ] Zadie Smith article [Les Irvin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 04:43:53 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: One word >________________________________ > From: Mark >To: kenevans kenevans ; joni@smoe.org >Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 12:54:07 AM >Subject: Re: One word > >-----Original Message----- From: kenevans kenevans Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 9:07 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: One word >Notches >Nachos? >Not just. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:23:07 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: The Entertainers Interview from 1974 Major Joni interview from 1974 just added to the site: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2542 Thanks to the incomparable Lindsay Moon for the transcription! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:28:18 +0000 From: Anita Subject: Re: The Entertainers Interview from 1974 Goodness gracious what an interview and thanks to Lindsay. Must have taken hours. Anita x On 11 Dec 2012, at 18:23, Les Irvin wrote: > Major Joni interview from 1974 just added to the site: > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2542 > Thanks to the incomparable Lindsay Moon for the transcription! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:58:36 -0500 From: kenevans kenevans Subject: Re: One word Just ice On Dec 11, 2012, at 7:43 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: ------------------------------ *From:* Mark *To:* kenevans kenevans ; joni@smoe.org *Sent:* Tuesday, December 11, 2012 12:54:07 AM *Subject:* Re: One word - -----Original Message----- From: kenevans kenevans Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 9:07 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: One word Notches Nachos? Not just. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 21:59:19 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: The Entertainers Interview from 1974 Still exploring this article but my favorite quote so far is "the only time I really play an instrument is to explore it." Word. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Anita Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:28 PM To: Les Irvin Cc: Joni List Subject: Re: The Entertainers Interview from 1974 Goodness gracious what an interview and thanks to Lindsay. Must have taken hours. Anita x On 11 Dec 2012, at 18:23, Les Irvin wrote: > Major Joni interview from 1974 just added to the site: > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2542 > Thanks to the incomparable Lindsay Moon for the transcription! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 09:02:13 +0000 From: Anita Subject: Re: One word At last,after all these years, you,Mark,have sold the HOSL debate! Joni made secret trips to Nandos and she really was referring to the 'liberation doll''s love of Mexican food! Thank you, Mark. I can now sleep peacefully and not try and work out the meaning of that line. Anita x On 11 Dec 2012, at 05:54, "Mark" wrote: > -----Original Message----- From: kenevans kenevans Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 9:07 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: One word > Notches > Nachos? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 04:39:28 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: One word Excellent! >________________________________ > From: kenevans kenevans >To: "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 12:07:06 AM >Subject: One word > >Notches ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:02:51 -0800 From: Betsy Subject: One word Pachyderm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:49:55 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: RE: how many suscribers really? Paul: Who talks about "right"? Of course i have no right to nothing. Catherine, yes it's dimeadozen. You've already apologized but thank you for the encore. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:35:48 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 On Monday, December 10, 2012, Catherine McKay wrote: > I think these things are not meant to be taken literally, in any case. I > just figure they're meant to be a path towards looking inward, more than > anything else, something to help us concentrate on whatever we figure we're > looking for anyway. > Yes, I agree. I find a lot of wisdom, particularly in Buddhist teachings. With respect to those teachings, I don't think we are limited by time and space, meaning some things have always been true and always will be, no matter when or where people have been tuned in to them. I also think we'll look foolish, maybe next week! > LOL!!!! > ------------------------------ > *From:* Victor Johnson 'cvml', 'waytobluemusic@gmail.com');>> > *To:* "IVPAUL42@aol.com " > > > *Cc:* "joni@smoe.org " < > joni@smoe.org > > *Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2012 2:52:18 PM > *Subject:* Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 > > One could easily say the same about writings from today, point being there > is certainly always more to learn, and much that will make "us" seem > foolish 1000 years from now. > > > > > On Monday, December 10, 2012, wrote: > > > > Sometimes the writings of a 1,000 years ago are wise, but sometimes they > > are foolish and narrow-minded. > > Would you take to heart advice based on a time when people believed the > sun > > orbited around a flat Earth? > > Perhaps, but with more than a grain of salt. > > > > Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 00:07:06 -0500 From: kenevans kenevans Subject: One word Notches ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:22:11 -0500 (EST) From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: how many suscribers really? Yes, if you expect nothing in return, you will never be disappointed. Expecting any more than nothing is expecting too much. You send it out because you want to share it with the world, but don't expect anyone to appreciate it or reward you for it, even with as little as a simple, polite "thank you." Paul In a message dated 12/10/2012 3:14:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: On Dec 7, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Laurent Olszer wrote: > When i upload a music dvd that took time and effort to make, all i expect is a "thank you" and i'd rather please 5 grateful people than 500 ungrateful ones. > Some friends put up a lot of stuff on youtube, all they're after is the largest possible audience and they don't care how many thanks they get, if any. Their logic i guess is that people thank you by downloading orwatching, personally i don't get it. > Any comments? > Laurent Paul replied I think Anita put it about as nicely as anyone could. As usual, I am less tactful. If you are doing it for the 'thank yous,' you either are a poor judge of human nature or selfishly seeking self-aggrandizement. Altruism, baby, altruism. Sorry guys but in addition to being selfish and/or a poor judge i must also be dumb because i still don't get it. Anita wrote i should lower my expectations. How can i lower them if i expect nothing but basic politeness? I don't really expect flowers, but what exactly is the level below my basic expectation? Is there an intermediate level or is it a plain 0? FYI Right now the ratio of thanks i get is 10-25% and I'm quite happy when i get 25%. "Poor judge of human nature" Oh Paul baby, you have no idea how i feel about human nature. I know there is the worst out there but also the best. Now, this torrent thing is like a large community, not on a youtube scale. So why not expect the best, or should i say a minimum, from people who are sensitive to the same music as we are? Why should i be content to witness that we live in a world of rudeness and not try to do anything about it? Sometimes i jump on a torrent that has like 50 leechers already and not even 1 thank you. I feel terrible for the uploader when i see this, and i will apologize for the previous 50 ungrateful leechers. This comment often sparks a flow of thanks as if the next leechers realize that this is not right, and it shall never be right in my book. "Selfish self aggrandizement": aside from the fact that we're anonymous (with an avatar) on this torrent site, what is wrong with expecting a tiny recognition for a job well done or merely appreciation for making the effort to share? I could spare the hassle and the torrent site would still continue without me. Yet I'm sharing the music i've captured because i know it will make some good people happy and this is my way of thanking them for all the music they've shared. What's selfish and non altruistic about that? You're probably going to reply that we should all be total altruists and keep giving without receiving motivation. That motivation is in the act of giving itself. I confess i'm not anywhere near the level of a Jesus or a Ghandi. How do you guys do it? Really i want to understand this giving without motivation thing please. Cheers Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:48:11 -0500 (EST) From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 In a message dated 12/10/2012 1:33:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, susan writes: Lyric: Clinging like fire to fuel The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing. Not without oxygen, it doesn't. Wood cannot burn, nothing can burn, without the oxygen or another flammable gas to fuel the fire. So the fate of fire does not depend on wood. The fuel is really the oxygen. The wood is the medis. Sometimes the writings of a 1,000 years ago are wise, but sometimes they are foolish and narrow-minded. Would you take to heart advice based on a time when people believed the sun orbited around a flat Earth? Perhaps, but with more than a grain of salt. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:35:39 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: how many suscribers really? Sorry to say, but I think the majority of people probably are either assholes, or perhaps never were taught to say "thank you" as children (which makes their parents assholes, I guess). Many's the time I've held a door for someone as they're coming behind me. Maybe half of them (at most) will say "Thank you." I don't know why that is, because I did teach my kids to say "Please" and "Thank you" and I've had people tell me I must have done a good job raising them, which surprises me because I find it sad that people *wouldn't* be polite enough to say "Thanks." Maybe it's just me, but I know that people in Toronto, where I live, did used to be much more polite and I think that the failure to say a simple "Please" or "Thank you" may be related to the fact that there are just more and more people rushing around, but I really don't know, and I think that's a poor excuse in any case. Having said that, I'm sure there are times when I've forgotten to say "Thanks" to someone for a kindness done. I know I was an asshole to you and a few others a while back about a disc you were sending around. I hope I apologized for that. (Sometimes I think I've done something, when I haven't, so I'm probably getting senile.) Where do you post torrents? Is it on dimeadozen? Just wondering, because I haven't been to that site in a while. I've realized there's no way I'd ever have the time to listen to all the music I used to collect there. >________________________________ > > > >Sorry guys but in addition to being selfish and/or a poor judge i must also >be dumb because i still don't get it. > >Anita wrote i should lower my expectations. How can i lower them if i expect >nothing but basic politeness? I don't really expect flowers, but what >exactly is the level below my basic expectation? Is there an intermediate >level or is it a plain 0? >FYI Right now the ratio of thanks i get is 10-25% and I'm quite happy when i >get 25%. > >"Poor judge of human nature" >Oh Paul baby, you have no idea how i feel about human nature. I know there >is the worst out there but also the best. Now, this torrent thing is like a >large community, not on a youtube scale. So why not expect the best, or >should i say a minimum, from people who are sensitive to the same music as >we are? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:43:10 +0000 From: joe farrell Subject: re: New Yorker essay by Zadie Smith I would love to read this. Could anybody make the complete essay available on the digest, or in the Joni website library, please? Regards, Joe. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:11:24 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Zadie Smith article Joniphiles - Here's the Zadie Smith article on Joni for your enjoyment. I'm hoping someone can convert it to text for me... us... so that I can put it in the Library. Any takers? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8377478/Zadie_on_Joni.pdf Enjoy! Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:42:07 -0500 (EST) From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: how many suscribers really? People are more likely to say "thank you" when something is done specifically for them. In this case, you are sending something out to a group, or the world, in which case I suggest you have no right to expect individual responses. Paul In a message dated 12/10/2012 3:35:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: Sorry to say, but I think the majority of people probably are either assholes, or perhaps never were taught to say "thank you" as children (which makes their parents assholes, I guess). Many's the time I've held a door for someone as they're coming behind me. Maybe half of them (at most) will say "Thank you." I don't know why that is, because I did teach my kids to say "Please" and "Thank you" and I've had people tell me I must have done a good job raising them, which surprises me because I find it sad that people *wouldn't* be polite enough to say "Thanks." Maybe it's just me, but I know that people in Toronto, where I live, did used to be much more polite and I think that the failure to say a simple "Please" or "Thank you" may be related to the fact that there are just more and more people rushing around, but I really don't know, and I think that's a poor excuse in any case. Having said that, I'm sure there are times when I've forgotten to say "Thanks" to someone for a kindness done. I know I was an asshole to you and a few others a while back about a disc you were sending around. I hope I apologized for that. (Sometimes I think I've done something, when I haven't, so I'm probably getting senile.) Where do you post torrents? Is it on dimeadozen? Just wondering, because I haven't been to that site in a while. I've realized there's no way I'd ever have the time to listen to all the music I used to collect there. ____________________________________ Sorry guys but in addition to being selfish and/or a poor judge i must also be dumb because i still don't get it. Anita wrote i should lower my expectations. How can i lower them if i expect nothing but basic politeness? I don't really expect flowers, but what exactly is the level below my basic expectation? Is there an intermediate level or is it a plain 0? FYI Right now the ratio of thanks i get is 10-25% and I'm quite happy when i get 25%. "Poor judge of human nature" Oh Paul baby, you have no idea how i feel about human nature. I know there is the worst out there but also the best. Now, this torrent thing is like a large community, not on a youtube scale. So why not expect the best, or should i say a minimum, from people who are sensitive to the same music as we are? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:21:06 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 I think these things are not meant to be taken literally, in any case. I just figure they're meant to be a path towards looking inward, more than anything else, something to help us concentrate on whatever we figure we're looking for anyway. To be honest, I've never had a clue what the I Ching is about, but I have looked at Tarot and astrology. I never take this stuff very seriously, but I figure it's kind of like how sometimes you're bothered by something and don't really know what to do about it until you talk to someone about it, or write it down, and suddenly you're answering your own questions and everything seems much clearer. I also think we'll look foolish, maybe next week! >________________________________ > From: Victor Johnson >To: "IVPAUL42@aol.com" >Cc: "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:52:18 PM >Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 > >One could easily say the same about writings from today, point being there >is certainly always more to learn, and much that will make "us" seem >foolish 1000 years from now. > > > > >On Monday, December 10, 2012, wrote: >> >> Sometimes the writings of a 1,000 years ago are wise, but sometimes they >> are foolish and narrow-minded. >> Would you take to heart advice based on a time when people believed the sun >> orbited around a flat Earth? >> Perhaps, but with more than a grain of salt. >> >> Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:14:08 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 I understand your point Paul, but I use these lessons more for their metaphors on balance then on scientific accuracy. There is so much we don't know and sometimes listening to geniuses of art and spirituality, whether they were born 6,000 years ago or 20 years ago, are as good a guidepost as any. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of IVPAUL42@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:48 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #417 In a message dated 12/10/2012 1:33:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, susan writes: Lyric: Clinging like fire to fuel The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing. Not without oxygen, it doesn't. Wood cannot burn, nothing can burn, without the oxygen or another flammable gas to fuel the fire. So the fate of fire does not depend on wood. The fuel is really the oxygen. The wood is the medis. Sometimes the writings of a 1,000 years ago are wise, but sometimes they are foolish and narrow-minded. Would you take to heart advice based on a time when people believed the sun orbited around a flat Earth? Perhaps, but with more than a grain of salt. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:22:11 -0500 (EST) From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: how many suscribers really? Yes, if you expect nothing in return, you will never be disappointed. Expecting any more than nothing is expecting too much. You send it out because you want to share it with the world, but don't expect anyone to appreciate it or reward you for it, even with as little as a simple, polite "thank you." Paul In a message dated 12/10/2012 3:14:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: On Dec 7, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Laurent Olszer wrote: > When i upload a music dvd that took time and effort to make, all i expect is a "thank you" and i'd rather please 5 grateful people than 500 ungrateful ones. > Some friends put up a lot of stuff on youtube, all they're after is the largest possible audience and they don't care how many thanks they get, if any. Their logic i guess is that people thank you by downloading orwatching, personally i don't get it. > Any comments? > Laurent Paul replied I think Anita put it about as nicely as anyone could. As usual, I am less tactful. If you are doing it for the 'thank yous,' you either are a poor judge of human nature or selfishly seeking self-aggrandizement. Altruism, baby, altruism. Sorry guys but in addition to being selfish and/or a poor judge i must also be dumb because i still don't get it. Anita wrote i should lower my expectations. How can i lower them if i expect nothing but basic politeness? I don't really expect flowers, but what exactly is the level below my basic expectation? Is there an intermediate level or is it a plain 0? FYI Right now the ratio of thanks i get is 10-25% and I'm quite happy when i get 25%. "Poor judge of human nature" Oh Paul baby, you have no idea how i feel about human nature. I know there is the worst out there but also the best. Now, this torrent thing is like a large community, not on a youtube scale. So why not expect the best, or should i say a minimum, from people who are sensitive to the same music as we are? Why should i be content to witness that we live in a world of rudeness and not try to do anything about it? Sometimes i jump on a torrent that has like 50 leechers already and not even 1 thank you. I feel terrible for the uploader when i see this, and i will apologize for the previous 50 ungrateful leechers. This comment often sparks a flow of thanks as if the next leechers realize that this is not right, and it shall never be right in my book. "Selfish self aggrandizement": aside from the fact that we're anonymous (with an avatar) on this torrent site, what is wrong with expecting a tiny recognition for a job well done or merely appreciation for making the effort to share? I could spare the hassle and the torrent site would still continue without me. Yet I'm sharing the music i've captured because i know it will make some good people happy and this is my way of thanking them for all the music they've shared. What's selfish and non altruistic about that? You're probably going to reply that we should all be total altruists and keep giving without receiving motivation. That motivation is in the act of giving itself. I confess i'm not anywhere near the level of a Jesus or a Ghandi. How do you guys do it? Really i want to understand this giving without motivation thing please. Cheers Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:35:03 -0500 From: Sally Subject: Re: New Yorker essay by Zadie Smith Hi Richard, I used to bury my head in the NY'er cover to cover, typically fascinating in some way every issue. Thank you for the heads up on this article. I'm damn sorry my subscription lapsed but worth the trip to the news stand to buy it! After reading about Zadie Smith, I have to say I'm going to check out her books as well! Thanks again Richard! Sally Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Dec 10, 2012, at 9:08 AM, "Richard Flynn" wrote: > The December 17th New Yorker has novelist Zadie Smith's personal essay, > "Some Notes on Attunement: My Voyage Around Joni Mitchell." It is > notavailable digitally except to subscribers (just read it on my iPad).A > very interesting essay. > > > > Abstract here: > > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/12/17/121217fa_fact_smith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:39:37 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Zadie Smith article I'll do it. >________________________________ > From: Les Irvin >To: Joni List >Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 8:11:24 PM >Subject: Zadie Smith article > >Joniphiles - > >Here's the Zadie Smith article on Joni for your enjoyment. I'm hoping someone can convert it to text for me... us... so that I can put it in the Library. Any takers? > >https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8377478/Zadie_on_Joni.pdf > >Enjoy! >Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 22:31:06 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Zadie Smith article The hits keep coming! Here's Zadie's article, now up in the Library: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2543 Thanks to Catherine McKay for typing it up! ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #419 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe