From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #286 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, September 6 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 286 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: shadows and light [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Intro [LC Stanley ] Thursday Joni Pop Quiz! [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Both Sides, Now - Joni w/Pete Seeger [simon@icu.com] Re: Thursday Joni Pop Quiz! [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Jericho and For Love or Money [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Jericho and For Love or Money ["Randy Remote" ] Re: shadows and light [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Intro [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Intro [Sally ] Re: Intro [Michael Flaherty ] Re: Thursday Joni Pop Quiz! ["Eaton, Shari" ] Re: Thursday Joni Pop Quiz! ["Eaton, Shari" ] Re: Both Sides, Now - Joni w/Pete Seeger [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Jericho and For Love or Money [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Intro [Catherine McKay ] Re: Intro [Lori Fye ] Re: Intro and Joni reference in the DC paper this morning [Loren Carter <] Dinner and a movie with Joni [LC Stanley ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 08:16:19 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: shadows and light No, it is not possible, unless you build a time machine, go back in time and prevent the film from being released. It's called "Shadows And Light", just like the album. The first time I saw it was on Laserdisc, which might have been the first format it was released in. Anyway, it's readily available now in DVD. It's a great film, enjoy. There's some stuff there that didn't make the album like "Jaco's Solo". Bob From: To: "joni" Date: 09/06/2012 01:56 AM Subject: shadows and light Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org Is is possible that there is no footage of the live shadows and light concert?? It would be unbelievable that such an event when unfilmed....I so so wish I could see some of it, if footage exists. - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 10:25:00 -0700 (PDT) From: LC Stanley Subject: Re: Intro Welcome Sally!!! Love, Laura ________________________________ From: Sally To: "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2012 4:03 AM Subject: Intro Hey everyone! I'm Sally...live near Washington, DC. Pleasure to be here! I hope to get to know some other kind fans over time! I love Joan and been a stone freak over her music since I discovered it in 1971. It amuses me to read over and over that her "best music" was C&S. I'm more partial to FTR and Hejira myself. Thanks for being out there. This list is awesome! :D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:25:50 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Thursday Joni Pop Quiz! This week's quiz has to do with NATIONALITIES. Just state which Joni song contains the WORD SHOWN (not the country). For example, "In France They Kiss On Main Street" is not the correct answer to "French"? Got it? Good. You can only use a song title once, and some of these have more than 1 correct answer. Pick up your pencils......GO. 1. African - 2. American - 3. Chinese - 4. English - 5. French - 6. German - 7. Irish - 8. Japanese - 9. Polish - 10. Spanish - (If you got #9, you're either REALLY GOOD or you looked it up) Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:33:14 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Both Sides, Now - Joni w/Pete Seeger Pat Boland writes > Subject: "Both Sides, Now" and Pete Seeger > > This came up recently ... actually that 'extra' verse is not too shabby. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyYuFBj8PTU&feature=colike Pat, You're correct! Pete Seeger's additional verse IS an interesting addition to BSN. The fact that he took the time to add his own verse says a lot about his respect for Joni. OTOH: I Do wonder about those who take these recordings and chop them up into little pieces. Why post only -1- song of a longer recording? And then ... provide NO information. FTR: Joni performed -3- songs on the following program. GENTLE ON MY MIND w/ John Hartford, Pete Seeger & Joni Mitchell KCOP-TV - Los Angeles, CA - Oct. 18, 1970 1. Mr. Tambourine Man 2. A Case Of You 3. Both Sides Now As already noted, BSN is performed with Pete Seeger. I'm pretty sure the banjo player on Mr. Tambourine Man is John Hartford. A copy of this recording has been UpLoaded via YouSendIt. JMDL members can download a copy @ http://tinyurl.com/d7xr226 You also might want to check out an article in the JM.com Library @ http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1495 and a recently added picture @ http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/detail.cfm?id=1296 Enjoy! andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simonM http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 16:40:09 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Thursday Joni Pop Quiz! A brave attempt! From: "Eaton, Shari" To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Cc: "joni@smoe.org list" Date: 09/06/2012 04:23 PM Subject: Re: Thursday Joni Pop Quiz! 1. African - Dreamland 2. American - Fiddle and the Drum WRONG, see my original note 3. Chinese - Chinese Cafe 4. English - Yvette in English 5. French - In France They Kiss on Main Street WRONG, see my original note 6. German - The Priest I'll give this to you, I was looking for the singular 7. Irish - Magdalene Laundries WRONG 8. Japanese - The Tea Leaf Prophecy WRONG 9. Polish - i don't know!! 10. Spanish - Don Juan's Reckless Daughter WRONG On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:25 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: This week's quiz has to do with NATIONALITIES. Just state which Joni song contains the WORD SHOWN (not the country). For example, "In France They Kiss On Main Street" is not the correct answer to "French"? Got it? Good. You can only use a song title once, and some of these have more than 1 correct answer. Pick up your pencils......GO. 1. African - 2. American - 3. Chinese - 4. English - 5. French - 6. German - 7. Irish - 8. Japanese - 9. Polish - 10. Spanish - (If you got #9, you're either REALLY GOOD or you looked it up) Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 17:47:20 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Jericho and For Love or Money Kind of like Elton John's, "Bennie and The Jets". In an interview with Elton (or was it, Bernie Taupin?), he says it was added later for effect. Mark in Sydney NP Love Or Money - Ian Shaw ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 07:21:30 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Intro Welcome Sally. My two faves as well. Best Paz in New Orleans On Sep 6, 2012, at 4:03 AM, Sally wrote: Hey everyone! I'm Sally...live near Washington, DC. Pleasure to be here! I hope to get to know some other kind fans over time! I love Joan and been a stone freak over her music since I discovered it in 1971. It amuses me to read over and over that her "best music" was C&S. I'm more partial to FTR and Hejira myself. Thanks for being out there. This list is awesome! :D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 12:18:07 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Jericho and For Love or Money Then there's "The Last Waltz" movie, about which producer John Simon said: a.. I'm pretty sure that Levon [Helm] is the only honest, live element in The Last Waltz, with the exception of Muddy Water's vocal. Everything else was overdubbed and redone. Levon was basically gone, because he was disgusted with certain of the business practices. Robbie asked him to do his part over again, but Levon had nothing to do with it. a.. Robbie was right in that there were some good reasons for overdubbing the whole thing. Richard wasn't singing well, Rick's bass was out of tune, and Robbie wanted to improve his guitar solos. Also, the horns were recorded completely out of balance and had to be redone in New York with arrangements Henry Glove and I put together. This Wheel's on Fire: Levon Helm and the Story of The Band (Chicago Review Press, 2000) Does this mean that Joni also redubbed her vocals/guitar post-concert? RR From: "Dave Blackburn" > You often never get a take you're happy with and the tour is over so you > resort to that. There are also "nearly live" or "slightly live" takes > where you might keep just the rhythm section tracks from the live show and > recut the vocals and guitars in the studio. Frank Zappa went even further > with that concept and would take the bass and drums from a live recording > of one song and then build an entirely new song from it or even layer the > guitar part from a different song in a different meter and tempo over it. > See Rubber Shirt from Sheik Yerbouti. He called the principle Xenechrony. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 16:34:49 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: shadows and light It is bizarre when you see it. I had to really lose my idea of what this concert was when I saw the DVD and the fact that the sun is shining. The cover of the album made me think it was a covered auditorium And not in the open air. It looks like it should be in the dark with spotlights, not natural daylight. Jamie Zubairi Actor, Artist, VoiceOver, Sent via iPhone so please excuse the brevity and possible typos! On 6 Sep 2012, at 13:16, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > No, it is not possible, unless you build a time machine, go back in time > and prevent the film from being released. > > It's called "Shadows And Light", just like the album. The first time I saw > it was on Laserdisc, which might have been the first format it was > released in. Anyway, it's readily available now in DVD. > > It's a great film, enjoy. There's some stuff there that didn't make the > album like "Jaco's Solo". > > Bob > > > > > > From: > To: "joni" > Date: 09/06/2012 01:56 AM > Subject: shadows and light > Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org > > > > Is is possible that there is no footage of the live shadows and light > concert?? It would be unbelievable that such an event when unfilmed....I > so so > wish I could see some of it, if footage exists. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 08:53:31 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Intro Hi Sally, and welcome to the JMDL - pleased to meet you and thanks for the intro. There used to be quite a DC contingency but I think most of them have scattered. As for C&S being her "best" record, it was certainly her most commercially successful, contained her only "hit" single, and unlike some its peers at the time still sounds incredible today. I'm mighty partial to the HOSL-Hejira-DJRD trilogy myself, love FTR too, I was a bit late coming to it. Didn't really take the Joni plunge until Hejira and moved backwards and forwards in subsequent years. Looking forward to hearing more from you. Bob From: Sally To: "joni@smoe.org" Date: 09/06/2012 05:32 AM Subject: Intro Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org Hey everyone! I'm Sally...live near Washington, DC. Pleasure to be here! I hope to get to know some other kind fans over time! I love Joan and been a stone freak over her music since I discovered it in 1971. It amuses me to read over and over that her "best music" was C&S. I'm more partial to FTR and Hejira myself. Thanks for being out there. This list is awesome! :D - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 05:03:58 -0400 From: Sally Subject: Intro Hey everyone! I'm Sally...live near Washington, DC. Pleasure to be here! I hope to get to know some other kind fans over time! I love Joan and been a stone freak over her music since I discovered it in 1971. It amuses me to read over and over that her "best music" was C&S. I'm more partial to FTR and Hejira myself. Thanks for being out there. This list is awesome! :D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 09:47:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Intro Welcome, Sally. > I'm mighty partial to the HOSL-Hejira-DJRD trilogy myself, love FTR too, I was a bit late coming to it. I agree with Bob. (When it comes to preferences in Joni's music, 99.9% of the time I agree with Bob.) :) Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 13:29:18 -0700 From: "Eaton, Shari" Subject: Re: Thursday Joni Pop Quiz! 1. African - Dreamland 2. American - Fiddle and the Drum 3. Chinese - Chinese Cafe 4. English - Yvette in English 5. French - In France They Kiss on Main Street 6. German - The Priest 7. Irish - Magdalene Laundries 8. Japanese - The Tea Leaf Prophecy 9. Polish - i don't know!! 10. Spanish - Don Juan's Reckless Daughter On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:25 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > This week's quiz has to do with NATIONALITIES. > > Just state which Joni song contains the WORD SHOWN (not the country). For > example, "In France They Kiss On Main Street" is not the correct answer to > "French"? Got it? Good. > > You can only use a song title once, and some of these have more than 1 > correct answer. > > Pick up your pencils......GO. > > 1. African - > > 2. American - > > 3. Chinese - > > 4. English - > > 5. French - > > 6. German - > > 7. Irish - > > 8. Japanese - > > 9. Polish - > > 10. Spanish - > > (If you got #9, you're either REALLY GOOD or you looked it up) > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 13:49:53 -0700 From: "Eaton, Shari" Subject: Re: Thursday Joni Pop Quiz! oh whoops. i read the directions incorrectly. my enthusiasm for this has vanished so on with the next contender!! On Sep 6, 2012, at 1:40 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > A brave attempt! > > > > > > From: "Eaton, Shari" > To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Cc: "joni@smoe.org list" > Date: 09/06/2012 04:23 PM > Subject: Re: Thursday Joni Pop Quiz! > > > > 1. African - Dreamland > > 2. American - Fiddle and the Drum WRONG, see my original note > > 3. Chinese - Chinese Cafe > > 4. English - Yvette in English > > 5. French - In France They Kiss on Main Street WRONG, see my original note > > 6. German - The Priest I'll give this to you, I was looking for the singular > > 7. Irish - Magdalene Laundries WRONG > > 8. Japanese - The Tea Leaf Prophecy WRONG > > 9. Polish - i don't know!! > > 10. Spanish - Don Juan's Reckless Daughter WRONG > > > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:25 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > This week's quiz has to do with NATIONALITIES. > > Just state which Joni song contains the WORD SHOWN (not the country). For > example, "In France They Kiss On Main Street" is not the correct answer to > "French"? Got it? Good. > > You can only use a song title once, and some of these have more than 1 > correct answer. > > Pick up your pencils......GO. > > 1. African - > > 2. American - > > 3. Chinese - > > 4. English - > > 5. French - > > 6. German - > > 7. Irish - > > 8. Japanese - > > 9. Polish - > > 10. Spanish - > > (If you got #9, you're either REALLY GOOD or you looked it up) > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 13:04:36 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Both Sides, Now - Joni w/Pete Seeger Thanks for the links, Simon - have heard the tracks but hadn't seen that photo of Joni & Hartford, an amazing and unique talent that we lost too soon. As for Seeger, he's amazing and then some. He's putting out a NEW record this month, "A More Perfect Union - New Songs By Old Friends" featuring Emmy Lou, Bruce Springsteen, Dar Williams, Steve Earle, Tom Morello and others. PLUS another 2-CD project "Pete Remembers Woody", a tribute to Woody Guthrie. A true force of nature. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 08:43:27 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Jericho and For Love or Money Kind of like Elton John's, "Bennie and The Jets".> Yeah, kind of...but Goodbye Yellow Brick Road WAS a studio album, after all. I know that when I first heard it, I knew that it wasn't a live performance but rather was enhanced in the studio with audience noise. I guess it shouldn't bother me that these are studio recordings 'tricked' into sounding live but I have to admit that it sort of does. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 04:02:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Intro Sally, you're not alone in rating FTR and Hejira as favourites. While I think C+S is a great album, I also prefer FTR and Hejira. Welcome! Catherine (in Toronto) >________________________________ > From: Sally >To: "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2012 5:03:58 AM >Subject: Intro > >Hey everyone! I'm Sally...live near Washington, DC. Pleasure to be here! I hope to get to know some other kind fans over time! I love Joan and been a stone freak over her music since I discovered it in 1971. It amuses me to read over and over that her "best music" was C&S. I'm more partial to FTR and Hejira myself. Thanks for being out there. This list is awesome! :D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 14:59:27 +0200 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Intro Hey, Sally! And, belatedly, hello to Ava, too! SO glad to have you both here. We come for conversation ... My favorite album, by anyone ever, is Hejira. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter (DJRD) runs a close second, along with The Hissing of Summer Lawns (THOSL or sometimes HOSL ... just getting you into the abbreviations you will often see here). Oh hell, I love them all. I'm not as much a fan of Taming the Tiger (TTT) as others, but it has its gems, too. Lori, who joined this list in (September?) 1997 from San Antonio, TX, then moved to Philadelphia, PA, then to Alexandria, VA, then to Wheaton/Silver Spring, MD, then to Santa Rosa, CA, then to Tioga, ND, and now "waving for you" from Dotzheim, Wiesbaden, Germany www.facebook.com/lrfye NP (now playing): Joan Armatrading's newest, "Starlight" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 06:47:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Loren Carter Subject: Re: Intro and Joni reference in the DC paper this morning All, Sally, I'm in Laurel MD, between DC and Baltimore, work in Silver Spring, welcome. In this mornings' Washington Post Style section there is an article about the Women of Rock with a Joni Mitchell reference. In the article she's listed as a songwriter. At the Women or Rock museum, there's a Joni notepad, with some lyrics she composed years ago. I was rushing around to get my son up and off to school and I read the article. I left it on the table for my wife, the real Joni Mitchell fan in the house. Our first concert was Joni at the University of MD, College Park. I can post the lines of the lyrics or poem when I get access to the paper this evening. Loren ________________________________ From: Sally To: "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2012 5:03 AM Subject: Intro Hey everyone! I'm Sally...live near Washington, DC. Pleasure to be here! I hope to get to know some other kind fans over time! I love Joan and been a stone freak over her music since I discovered it in 1971. It amuses me to read over and over that her "best music" was C&S. I'm more partial to FTR and Hejira myself. Thanks for being out there. This list is awesome! :D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 20:20:56 -0500 From: LC Stanley Subject: Dinner and a movie with Joni What's the buzz? Who is going? Anybody making a list of when and where people are going to be in BC? I'm looking forward to the cooler weather and being 'home' in Canada. Love, Laura ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #286 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe