From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #263 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, August 22 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 263 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni on the radio [Dave Blackburn ] Sesquicentennial-Debussy [Betsy ] Joni on the radio [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni on the radio [LC Stanley ] RE: Judgment of the Moon and Stars ["kbhla" ] Re: Joni on the radio [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Judgment of the Moon and Stars [Shari Eaton ] Re: Judgment of the Moon and Stars [Shari Eaton ] Re: Joni on the radio [Dave Blackburn ] RE: Now Song For Sharon was NRH vs TI, and JOTMAS (the gift went on) ["Mark" ] [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: Graham Nash - Songs About Joni [Catherine McKay ] RE: Now Song For Sharon was NRH vs TI, and JOTMAS (the gift went on) ["Mark" ] [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: Joni on the radio [Dave Blackburn ] RE: Joni on the radio [Susan Tierney McNamara ] RE: Joni's gardens ["kbhla" ] Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog [Dave Blackburn ] RE: Laurel Canyon House ["kbhla" ] New Library item: Joni Mitchell [TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com] Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Joni's rambling stories ["Eaton, Shari" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 10:04:12 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Joni on the radio Yes, it's a 3/4 waltz but not in the "classic" way, as this is also in a swing groove. That would be called a Jazz Waltz usually. Pretty tune isn't it? On Aug 22, 2012, at 9:51 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Have you heard Go Tell The Drummer Man?> > > I'm no expert but that sounds like classic 3/4 waltz time to my untrained ear. > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 10:34:14 -0700 From: Betsy Subject: Sesquicentennial-Debussy It's the sesquicentennial of Claude Debussy's birth. I can't recall whether Joni named him as an influence, but I certainly HEAR him in some of her music. Does anyone else??? Betsy NP Jeux, Cleveland Orchestra/Pierre Boulez Bob said: > Now THERE'S a word you don't get to use very often - "sesquicentennial". And to tell the truth I'm not really using it correctly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 08:03:36 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Joni on the radio Always a nice way to begin the day - I had to laugh because I had quite an ordeal attempting to re-sub to SiriusXM on Monday (you'd think they'd make it EASY but not so), and was still ramped up about the experience yesterday when what should appear in my inbox than a SURVEY to share my experience. Well, as I'm typically not one to shy away from sharing my opinions or at a loss for words, I let them hold it and told them about how ROTTEN the experience was AND offered several suggestions for them to improve it. Fast forward to this morning...I'm heading to work, and the radio is playing "Move On" by Loggins & Messina, one of my favorite songs from one of my favorite albums. THEN they launch into "Without You" by the Doobies which falls into the same category. By now I'm feeling great, singing and drumming on the steering wheel. Then....they spin a Joni tune, "Number One", and I'm thinking dang, when was the last time I heard THIS ONE on the radio? And the answer comes back - never. Not my favorite Joni song, but still... I'm guessing that they knew I was pi$$ed and were trying to desperatly make amends. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 05:36:35 -0700 (PDT) From: LC Stanley Subject: Re: Joni on the radio I love the sashay, strut and sway, beat of Number One. It moves like Joni. From: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 7:03 AM Subject: Joni on the radio Always a nice way to begin the day - I had to laugh because I had quite an ordeal attempting to re-sub to SiriusXM on Monday (you'd think they'd make it EASY but not so), and was still ramped up about the experience yesterday when what should appear in my inbox than a SURVEY to share my experience. Well, as I'm typically not one to shy away from sharing my opinions or at a loss for words, I let them hold it and told them about how ROTTEN the experience was AND offered several suggestions for them to improve it. Fast forward to this morning...I'm heading to work, and the radio is playing "Move On" by Loggins & Messina, one of my favorite songs from one of my favorite albums. THEN they launch into "Without You" by the Doobies which falls into the same category. By now I'm feeling great, singing and drumming on the steering wheel. Then....they spin a Joni tune, "Number One", and I'm thinking dang, when was the last time I heard THIS ONE on the radio? And the answer comes back - never. Not my favorite Joni song, but still... I'm guessing that they knew I was pi$$ed and were trying to desperatly make amends. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 00:51:43 -0700 From: "kbhla" Subject: RE: Judgment of the Moon and Stars Oh exactly, Sharon! Your husband got it right from the start! It was my very favorite Joni song for years - since it was first released. But in the past few years the song For The Roses has moved into first place. The album is definitely my most favorite. We've long had the Hejira vs. For The Roses "is the best" camps here ;-) I didn't take to Hejira when it came out but it has grown on me over the years and I can't deny Joni's genius in that work. It took my breath away reading Mark's recent post reciting Song for Sharon from memory. The lyrics from that song and album are probably at the top of the list. Kakki - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 22:26:08 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Fwd: Judgment of the Moon and Stars I read this verse to my husband and entirely out of context of the song. He's not a Joni fan and doesn't know the song so I was stunned when he picked up on this: He said that it's a rebirth of the broken tree and elephant. They've risen up after being cut down and are now expressing themselves in a new life. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:41:02 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni on the radio I love the sashay, strut and sway, beat of Number One.> One of those "shuffle" songs...Sue and other guitarists - was "Be Cool" the first song she wrote that had the shuffle rhythm? Nothing earlier comes to mind. I feel like she employed it a lot after that. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 06:44:51 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: Judgment of the Moon and Stars "Condemned to wires and hammers Strike every chord that you feel That broken trees And elephant ivories conceal" She's using the word conceal in its noun state. The wood of the piano and the keys are on the outside. The wires and hammers are on the inside. The internal emotional workings are concealed by the casing of the piano. Just as our bodies are a concealment for our inner emotional workings. Lots of Joni, Shari On Aug 20, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Kevin Foehr wrote: > Bobsart, > > > You wrote: > "However, the closing lines of JOTMAS have always left > me feeling > uncomfortable. Why? Because I can change the last word of the song > to its > literal opposite, and still feel it would have poetic (and perhaps > ironic) > meaning. > > "Condemned to wires and hammers > Strike every chord that you > feel > That broken trees > And elephant ivories conceal" > > But what if the last > word had instead been "reveal" ? > > This my favorite Joni passage > / poetic image, and therefore, not surprisngly, in my opinion, it is perfect. > Changing the last word to "reveal' would have lessened its poetic quality a > bit in my mind. And I think "conceal" is more ironic than "reveal" would have > been. Reveal would have been too linear and expected. It is the end of > creative process -- the result -- the revealment of beauty and emotion. And > it puts the emphasis on the instrument, not the artist. > > But conceal is > perfect here because it is first in the process, and thus it is not instantly > clear what this imagery means. The listener must stop and think, "What is > being concealed? And by what?" Then the listener can see the full picture: > what is concealed can be revealed by the artist. Conceal implies that here; > but reveal would not imply this process as clearly as it jumps directly to the > end product. And it highlights WHO can reveal what lies concealed within. > Broken trees and elephant ivories conceal the beauty and emotional power that > is possible. They are pure potential, like colors on a painter's pallette, > and it takes a great master to access that potential and reveal the beauty > that is possible. > > In my mind, moving from concealment to something revealed > is a much more poetic image than "seeing" the end of the process > (beauty revealed), and then MAYBE thinking about how that beauty was (is) > "concealed" to us mere mortals and is "revealed" by musical geniuses like Joni > and Beethoven. > > > Kevin F. ............................................................................. .............. Shari Eaton visual designer . art director ............................................................................. .............. Shari Eaton Design 415.361.8708 . www.sharieaton.com ............................................................................. .............. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 07:41:06 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: Judgment of the Moon and Stars Cheers Anne. You're absolutely right. I meant it as descriptive & not literal. I described it that way for effect. She's using 'conceal' as you would use the word 'concealment' in meaning. I realized after I pressed send that I should've stated that. In this context, it is a verb. Not digressively, I want to mention that I might rest on this song as my absolute favorite. I LOVE her words of encouragement here 'you've got to shake your fist at lightening now....' On Aug 21, 2012, at 7:10 AM, Anne Sandstrom wrote: > As a professional writer, I'm going to jump in here to say that conceal isn't a noun. It's a verb, and that's how Joni uses it in JOTMAS. > > However, the rest of your analysis is spot on, Shari. > > And I'm reminded of the line "these things that you and I suppress" from Hejira. > > I'm sure there are many instance of Joni referring to things seeming one way on the surface, while the reality underneath is very different. I'll ponder this... > > lots of love, > Anne > > On Aug 21, 2012, Shari Eaton wrote: > > "Condemned to wires and hammers > Strike every chord that you > feel > That broken trees > And elephant ivories conceal" > > She's using the word conceal in its noun state. > > The wood of the piano and the keys are on the outside. The wires and hammers > are on the inside. The internal emotional workings are concealed by the casing > of the piano. > > Just as our bodies are a concealment for our inner emotional workings. > > > Lots of Joni, > Shari ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:13:31 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Joni on the radio 6/8 and the shuffle feel are quite different, Sue. A shuffle, aka swing, extends the first eighth note and shortens the second in each pair so there is kind of a bounce to it. A well known example of a shuffle would be "Kansas City" or "Revolution." You can also swing 16th notes which is sometimes heard in funk and hiphop. The backbeat is usually on 2 and 4 but sometimes on 3, in which case it is called a half-time shuffle, like Toto's "Rosanna" or, famously, Steely Dan's "Babylon Sisters", coined "the Purdie Shuffle" by Bernard Purdie, whose ego makes Joni's look like Mother Teresa's! On Aug 22, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: > I think Night in the City is a shuffle but I could be wrong ... in one early cafi recording she says something like "I wrote this in rollicking gospel 6/8 but I think I'm playing it in lumpy 3/4 ..." or something like that. I know it took me a while to get the strum down, but it feels like a shuffle to me. > > Susan Tierney McNamara > email: sem8@cornell.edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:41 AM > To: LC Stanley > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Joni on the radio > > I love the sashay, strut and sway, beat of Number One.> > > One of those "shuffle" songs...Sue and other guitarists - was "Be Cool" > the first song she wrote that had the shuffle rhythm? Nothing earlier comes to mind. I feel like she employed it a lot after that. > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 20:01:21 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Now Song For Sharon was NRH vs TI, and JOTMAS (the gift went on) ["Mark" ] Thanks Stewart ... I have now rediscovered the online forum at JM.com! :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 3:33 PM To: Susan Tierney McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Now Song For Sharon was NRH vs TI, and JOTMAS (the gift went on) ["Mark" ] Hi Sue, I could be mistaken but I think those polls that were referred to are from the old JMDL.com website which now appears to be disabled and replaced by the Jonimitchell.com discussion forum. Looking through some of the older discussion threads I saw 2 poll related items. http://jonimitchell.com/forum/discussion.cfm?id=96FF4838-3FFF-AEA7-573641940F2D452D http://jonimitchell.com/forum/discussion.cfm?id=9997184B-3FFF-AEA7-56D7E331A8BE145E I bet Blue and Hejira would still head any current listing From: Susan Tierney McNamara To: "Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com" , Mark Cc: "joni@smoe.org" Date: 08/21/2012 01:46 PM Subject: RE: Now Song For Sharon was NRH vs TI, and JOTMAS (the gift went on) ["Mark" ] Great interview!! I really appreciate it when listers point out some of the gems on the website. I hadn't read this one before. Hejira is a miracle of an album, although I would tie it with Turbulent Indigo, not Blue. As the article says: "Voting on jonimitchell.com, an excellent fan-driven website, ranks Hejira as Mitchell's most popular album. A critics' poll done in the late 1990s placed the album in a first-place tie with the Blue, a moody collection of love songs she recorded in 1971." Are there still polls on the website? It would be interesting to see what the vote tally is now. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu =================================================================================== - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:32:53 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Just Like This Train - KCRW Morning Becomes Eclectic Karen Holtz wrote > Subject: Just Like This Train > > Hey guys! Please, I need a help! > I've got a version of Just Like This Train song in my computer, sung by Joni Mitchell, > but this version is different than that ones that can be find at Court and Spark and Travelogue albums. > > Do you know know where is this record from? I've posted it on my 4shared page. > Can you listen to it and help me please? > > Here is the link: http://www.4shared.com/mp3/ksDhlChP/Just_like_this_train.html > > Thank you! > - - - - - - - - Karen, On Sept. 12, 1994 Joni Mitchell and Larry Klein visited radio station KCRW-FM in Santa Monica, CA. They were interviewed by Chris Douridas during his program "Morning Becomes Eclectic". During the hour-long Interview Session, several songs were performed by Joni, with Larry Klein on bass. 1. Night Ride Home 2. Just Like This Train 3. Moon At The Window 4. Magdalene Laundries 5. Sex Kills 6. The Crazy Cries Of Love 7. Face Lift Broadcast: Oct. 25, 1994 Two of these songs, as performed on KCRW-FM, were later 'officially' released. "Just Like This Train" was included on the CD release "KCRW Rare On Air, Volume 2" "Moon At The Window" was included as a 'Bonus' song on the "How Do You Stop" CD Single BTW: A Promo-Only RadioMix of "How Do You Stop" was also released. I UpLoaded all three via YouSendIt. You can download at the following URL(s): mp3.copy I am NOT a big fan of compressed, compromised mp3 files. So I also UpLoaded CD all three in CD Quality. 16bit/44k CD Quality These are larger files and will take a little longer to download. The complete transcript is in the JM.com Library @ AND, an 'almost' complete copy of the full program is available for listening on KCRW's WebSite. "Morning Becomes Eclectic" Enjoy! andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simonM http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/complete.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/music/miscrecordings.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 15:56:22 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Joni on the radio I think Night in the City is a shuffle but I could be wrong ... in one early cafi recording she says something like "I wrote this in rollicking gospel 6/8 but I think I'm playing it in lumpy 3/4 ..." or something like that. I know it took me a while to get the strum down, but it feels like a shuffle to me. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:41 AM To: LC Stanley Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni on the radio I love the sashay, strut and sway, beat of Number One.> One of those "shuffle" songs...Sue and other guitarists - was "Be Cool" the first song she wrote that had the shuffle rhythm? Nothing earlier comes to mind. I feel like she employed it a lot after that. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 08:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Graham Nash - Songs About Joni Simon, have I told you lately that I love you? No? Well, I do! Thanks for these and for "White banners." I was thinking the film and/or novel it was based on were called "White flags", so wasn't able to find anything earlier on. I've downloaded all of these (oops, realize I already had "only love can break your heart") and will watch the film later. Definitely, there is more than love that can break your heart. In any case, it's probably not love, but loss of love that would do that, but "only love can mend it again." >________________________________ > From: "simon@icu.com" >To: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 6:23:24 PM >Subject: Graham Nash - - Songs About Joni > >Previously, in reference to "Another Sleep Song, I said > > > Graham's solo Albums contain a number of songs about Joni. > > THIS isn't one of them. (stay tuned, more later) > > >Here's the more later: > > From: Graham Nash - SONGS FOR BEGINNERS > > 1. Better Days > 2. I Used To Be A King > 3. Simple Man > > From: Graham Nash - WILD TALES > > 4. You'll Never Be The Same > > >And then there's the song Neil Young wrote about Joni's breakup with Graham. > > From: Neil Young - AFTER THE GOLDRUSH > > 5. Only Love Can Break Your Heart > > >However, there ARE other things that can break your heart. > > > > >andmoreagain, >- - - - - - - - - >simonM > >http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/complete.cfm > >http://jonimitchell.com/music/songsaboutjoni.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 13:57:58 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Just like this train I signed up for this and listened to the version of JLTT ... I think it might be from a live radio concert ... it's just Joni on an acoustic and Larry Klein on bass ... but the sound is great. Might be during a promotional tour for TI. Just guessing. Now if my computer blows up, I'll be the goon. :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Shari Eaton Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:11 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Just like this train Good catch, Bob. Most dubious looking. On Aug 20, 2012, at 6:31 PM, Bob Muller wrote: > I smell a rat. I wouldn't touch that download with a 10-foot pole. > > Bob > ________________________________ > From: Karen Holtz > To: > joni@smoe.org > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 7:07 PM > Subject: Just like this > train > > Hey guys! Please, I need a help! > I've got a version of Just Like This > Train song in my computer, sung by > Joni Mitchell, but this version is > different than that ones that can be > find at Court and Spark and Travelogue albums. Do you know know where > is this record from? > I've posted it on my > 4shared page. Can you listen to it and help me please? > Here is the link: > http://www.4shared.com/mp3/ksDhlChP/Just_like_this_train.html > > Thank you! > Karen Holtz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 17:45:58 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Now Song For Sharon was NRH vs TI, and JOTMAS (the gift went on) ["Mark" ] Great interview!! I really appreciate it when listers point out some of the gems on the website. I hadn't read this one before. Hejira is a miracle of an album, although I would tie it with Turbulent Indigo, not Blue. As the article says: "Voting on jonimitchell.com, an excellent fan-driven website, ranks Hejira as Mitchell's most popular album. A critics' poll done in the late 1990s placed the album in a first-place tie with the Blue, a moody collection of love songs she recorded in 1971." Are there still polls on the website? It would be interesting to see what the vote tally is now. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 2:51 PM To: Mark Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Now Song For Sharon was NRH vs TI, and JOTMAS (the gift went on) ["Mark" ] Mark, A few quick comments regarding your post on Song For Sharon.... 1.It Is very impressive that you can recall the lyrics to this entire song from memory - its a tough song to memorize. There are only a handful of songs I can recite from memory (Woodstock, Circle Game, Both Sides Now, Blue and LTIS Richard might be the only 5 off the top of my head) 2 Regarding the song - its ironic that as kids, Mitchell was the one that longed for married life on a farm and Sharon Bell was the one who had dreams for success as a singer. When things turned out precisely in reverse, its been reported that Bell resented Joni's fame while Joni envied Sharon's close family life. The two women had'nt been in touch since they were teens, but after the song came out, Bell went to Saskatoon and made a recording of her own songs. I recall Bob Muller had spoken with Sharon directly about this irony and am anxiously awaiting Chapter 2 of this discussion. 3. According to this article (below), Joni states that she is not convinced Hejira is the best of the 22 albums (that made her among the most influential singer-songwriters of the past 40 years). She won't attach that label to any of her albums. But she concedes Hejira is probably her one album that could not have been made by anyone else. "I suppose a lot of people could have written a lot of my other songs, but I feel the songs on Hejira could only have come from me," she said an interview with the Citizen. But Mitchell says self-confession, no matter how risky and revealing, was essential to her writing during that era. "My songs have always been more autobiographical than most people's," she says. "It pushes you toward honesty. I was just returning to normal from the extremities of a very abnormal mindset when I wrote most of the songs (on Hejira). "When life gets interesting I get very alert, and life was very interesting. I think that took the writing to another level." My opinion is that the writing on Hejira is her best and that Song for Sharon is one her most powerful songs. http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1459&from=search Your posts are always very thought provoking and interesting to read Mark.....thanks. Stewart =================================================================================== 2.Finally she briefly sums up their two lives and points out how Sharon expresses her talent, entering a bit into Joni's world and how Joni will occasionally seek out the space and air of the world that Sharon inhabits. Anyway, if you get to this point and you know the last verse is coming, you pretty much have gotten it. First and last verses are usually pretty ingrained if it's a song you love. Sharon you've got a husband And a family and a farm I've got the apple of temptation And a diamond snake around my arm But you still have your music I've still got my eyes on the land and the sky You sing for your friends and your family I'll walk green pastures by and by I don't think I left any of the verses out. Specific words may be altered since sometimes what gets stuck in my head isn't always exactly what is on the record. But that was all typed from memory. Most of Joni's lyrics are very logical and straightforward. Mark in Seattle - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 18:47:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Foehr Subject: Re: Judgment of the Moon and Stars Hi Catherine, Thank you for your comment, and I'm happy that you see it similarly. I was thinking maybe I was alone in my view. Also, your analogy of the sculptor conveys the idea much better than my palette of paints. Whatever the "correct" interpretation, JOTMAS is, it is always among my very favorite Joni songs. This ebbs and flows a little, but I think JOTMASis probably always in the my three. Right at this moment, I'm thinking... LTISR, River, and JOTMAS. "... I'm gonna blow this damn candle out I don't want Nobody comin' over to my table I got nothing to talk to anybody about All good dreamers pass this way some day Hidin' behind bottles in dark cafes Dark cafes Only a dark cocoon before I get my gorgeous wings And fly away Only a phase, these dark cafe days" Feeling so blue was never more beautiful. Kevin F. From: Catherine McKay To: Kevin Foehr ; "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:11 AM Subject: Re: Judgment of the Moon and Stars Kevin, this is how I see/feel this imagery as well. I'm thinking of something I read about a sculptor who looks at a piece of granite (or whatever s/he is going to use for the next piece) and waits for it to reveal what is hidden inside before starting to chip away at it. >________________________________ > From: Kevin Foehr >To: "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 8:04:11 PM >Subject: Judgment of the Moon and Stars > > >But conceal is >perfect here because it is first in the process, and thus it is not instantly >clear what this imagery means. The listener must stop and think, "What is >being concealed? And by what?" Then the listener can see the full picture: >what is concealed can be revealed by the artist. Conceal implies that here; >but reveal would not imply this process as clearly as it jumps directly to the >end product. And it highlights WHO can reveal what lies concealed within. >Broken trees and elephant ivories conceal the beauty and emotional power that >is possible. They are pure potential, like colors on a painter's pallette, >and it takes a great master to access that potential and reveal the beauty >that is possible. > >In my mind, moving from concealment to something revealed >is a much more poetic image than "seeing" the end of the process >(beauty revealed), and then MAYBE thinking about how that beauty was (is) >"concealed" to us mere mortals and is "revealed" by musical geniuses like Joni >and Beethoven. > > >Kevin F. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 07:07:54 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Joni on the radio I think you're right Bob. Joni's "shuffle" is often a rather complex 12/8 pattern where it's hard to tell where 1 is. I'm thinking of Crazy Cries of Love or Harlem in Havana in particular. She's definitely got some drummer bloodin her as those are not your typical coffeehouse strums. Even the programmed Lucky Girl is a weird shuffle, with the xylophone accenting 6 beats in the bar, the ride cymbal playing in 4 and the snare backbeat placed on the last eighth note of the 12/8 groove. Too bad it wasn't played by a band - it might have had some sashay. On Aug 22, 2012, at 6:41 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > I love the sashay, strut and sway, beat of Number One.> > > One of those "shuffle" songs...Sue and other guitarists - was "Be Cool" > the first song she wrote that had the shuffle rhythm? Nothing earlier > comes to mind. I feel like she employed it a lot after that. > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:21:15 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Joni on the radio Great stuff Dave ... Have you heard Go Tell The Drummer Man? I wonder if that's a shuffle ... Bob posted a link earlier in the week. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: Dave Blackburn [mailto:beatntrack@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:14 PM To: Susan Tierney McNamara Cc: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com; LC Stanley; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni on the radio 6/8 and the shuffle feel are quite different, Sue. A shuffle, aka swing, extends the first eighth note and shortens the second in each pair so there is kind of a bounce to it. A well known example of a shuffle would be "Kansas City" or "Revolution." You can also swing 16th notes which is sometimes heard in funk and hiphop. The backbeat is usually on 2 and 4 but sometimes on 3, in which case it is called a half-time shuffle, like Toto's "Rosanna" or, famously, Steely Dan's "Babylon Sisters", coined "the Purdie Shuffle" by Bernard Purdie, whose ego makes Joni's look like Mother Teresa's! On Aug 22, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: > I think Night in the City is a shuffle but I could be wrong ... in one early cafi recording she says something like "I wrote this in rollicking gospel 6/8 but I think I'm playing it in lumpy 3/4 ..." or something like that. I know it took me a while to get the strum down, but it feels like a shuffle to me. > > Susan Tierney McNamara > email: sem8@cornell.edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:41 AM > To: LC Stanley > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Joni on the radio > > I love the sashay, strut and sway, beat of Number One.> > > One of those "shuffle" songs...Sue and other guitarists - was "Be Cool" > the first song she wrote that had the shuffle rhythm? Nothing earlier comes to mind. I feel like she employed it a lot after that. > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 12:55:28 -0700 From: "kbhla" Subject: RE: Joni's gardens This is a wonderful rare glimpse at the gardens around Joni's Bel Air house and she describes them in her typical poetic detail. They are as beautiful as her paintings and music. I especially love the photo of her pool - it looks like it was built in the 20s like the house. I've seen a few of these early type California pools in older houses and they are incredibly built and majestic and include the old Catalina or Malibu tiles. Kakki Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 12:41:36 -0600 (MDT) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New Library item: Joni Mitchell Title: Joni Mitchell Publication: Secret Gardens of Hollywood Date: 2003.0.0 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2517 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 11:35:07 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog DED did indeed suffer from a dismal mastering job, as did quite a few of Joni's albums, in my opinion. The early ones, like STAS and Clouds were close to unlistenable, or at best pretty unengaging, shall we say? DJRD also was tinny and distant. Modern mastering tools have come a long way since those records came out, to be sure, but the aesthetic choices a mastering engineer needs to make to make to "bring out" the music would seem to me to reach across the ages. My frustration at all this great music being so hard to listen to led me to remaster the albums I thought were the ones most lacking. Mastering is a much misunderstood process as it involves so many techniques and decisions to be applied to something that is presented as a finished work. Do you trust the engineer/producer/artist's vision and basically just assemble the album's running order or do you take a hands-on approach and bring a fresh set of ears to take it to another level? My guiding principle is always to assess the emotional impact; if I'm not pulled into the music and surrounded by the majesty of the recording it needs more work. Which buttons to push to get it there is the craft. Dave On Aug 19, 2012, at 11:11 AM, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > I agree that the DED disc in the Geffen box was a great improvement. It's the most-improved remastering I have heard. > > The DED disc and the inclusion of "Speechless" (the so-called demo of "Two Grey Rooms ") made it worth while to me. In my mind, the instrumental isn't really a demo because it lacks words. It can't be a demo. > > I'm glad I bought the box set before the price doubled. Did it go out of print? I guess that's what keeps the price of boxed sets up -they go out of print and therefore become "rare". It was worthwhile at $45 when it was new; now, at $199 new on Amazon, I would hesitate. > > Jim L'Hommedieu > > > On 8/19/2012 1:20 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: >> From: "Mark" >> >> I know the Geffen box set has been trashed as an over-priced, unnecessary >> release and I've said this before but the remastered DED was really a >> revelation to me. There are so many subtle intricacies in the arrangements >> that I had never heard on the original release. DED is definitely one of >> Joni's finer efforts, imo. And the messages she was trying to send out back >> in 1985 are as relevant now as they were then. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 10:59:08 -0700 From: "kbhla" Subject: RE: Laurel Canyon House I wish, Laura! That would have been fun to see! Kakki From: LC Stanley [mailto:sillyseabird7@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 5:30 AM To: kbhla; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Laurel Canyon House Was one of those items the pinball machine? _____ From: kbhla To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 6:00 PM Subject: RE: Laurel Canyon House Wow, Lindsay, thanks for sharing those amazing excerpts! I had this book but only skimmed about in it and then lent it to a neighbor years ago because my reading list was too large at the time. I think my neighbor still has it and I'll see about getting it back now! When Lesli and I were at the Joni estate sale the sales ladies told us Joni still owned the house and the photos at the estate sale website showed some of her items posed in the (then) empty house. Kakki >>On January 17, 2005, Nash answered his phone in Hawaii, his home for the past thirty years. It was Mitchell, calling from L.A. "She said, 'Do you want to go to the house?' I said, "What?' She said, 'I'm thinking of selling it.' I said, 'Really? Why?' She said the people renting it, three guys came over the fence and tried to rob them. And Joni thinks that those things are signs, and so she thought it was a sign that she should give it up. She wasn't there to protect it. So she wanted to know if I wanted to go back and reminisce for a few minutes." Nash, about to leave on a world tour with Stills and Crosby, declined. So that's the story on the house in Laurel Canyon that some of us visited. Good to know that the house we all find so magical, so do the people who actually lived there and made music there. Gives me a good feeling. Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 12:41:36 -0600 (MDT) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New Library item: Joni Mitchell Title: Joni Mitchell Publication: Secret Gardens of Hollywood Date: 2003.0.0 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2517 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 15:13:28 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog To read up on the Geffen box, there are 17 owner opinion pieces on Amazon at http://tinyurl.com/9pxwfae Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 10:34:56 -0700 From: "Eaton, Shari" Subject: Joni's rambling stories They're sort of my favorite part about her live songs. Do we have a collection of them? Here's one I haven't heard before: Joni Mitchell - Carey (with full intro) She tells about the guy Carey that she met in Greece. The one who inspired this song. Fun little peek into her social life. Lots of Joni, Shari ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #263 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe