From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #242 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, August 8 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 242 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: how do I join the list facebook group? [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: The Tea Leaf Prophecy [Lieve Reckers ] how do I join the list facebook group? [carmel rotem ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 16:04:55 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: how do I join the list facebook group? It's a nice forum to share photos, videos, audio...files that are verboten with smoe. It is a closed group...not because we want to be exclusive but so that not just anyone can join. Anyone in the group can grant you membership, if one of your current FB friends is in that group they can approve you as an addition. Then of course there's all the paperwork, filled out in triplicate and the Joni trivia test. Then the audition...Michael Paz is still trying to get through this part. Just kidding about all that last stuff. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 10:01:14 +0100 (BST) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: The Tea Leaf Prophecy Mark, I don't think that any info in Mr Anderson's obit is any reason to ignore your beautifully written post! It does not matter if a particular theory may not be valid, the thought behind it is much more broad and remains valid. And it just reminded me of my favourite theory: everything is chaos and random good or bad luck, without much sense or justice, and still throughout this mess we should have our own imperative to "do the right thing" (i.e. to only do to others as we would wish to be done to us). So yes, we can probably all find terrible things like war or accidents which have set off good coincidences and meetings which may have led to the birth of a genius. But in the same way good intentions may have led to the birth of mass killers. There is just no justice... And still we should never stop trying to do the right thing... Just my quick personal reaction, maybe not in the direction you had in mind, but thanks for prompting a reaction at all, I feel like I am waking up! Big hug, Lieve >________________________________ > From: Mark >To: joni >Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2012, 5:43 >Subject: Fw: The Tea Leaf Prophecy > >I looked at Mr. Anderson's obit again. Just ignore this email. > >-----Original Message----- From: Mark >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 9:10 PM >To: joni >Subject: The Tea Leaf Prophecy > >Like Lieve, I was beginning to wonder if I had anything left to contribute >to the JMDL. And every time anybody mentions Facebook here, I feel a slight >pang of guilt. > >Actually I've been in a funk about writing anything for awhile. I'm hoping >the fog in my brain is at least thinning enough to let a few things emerge. >I don't think I want it to completely burn off. The stark, unclouded vision >of what's in there might be too much for me. I sometimes fear that I live >too much in my own thoughts and I should come out more often before I forget >how. > >I finished another book on my bus to work this morning and, once again, it >triggered a Joni Mitchell ear worm without my even realizing it. The book >is 'Atonement' by Ian McEwan. There was a very good movie made out of it a >few years ago. Keira Knightly got some positive buzz out of it. Enough >time has gone by since I saw the movie to make the story seem fresh and the >book is very well written. The novel is set in England and begins just >before WWII. Of course, the war, the evacuation from Dunkirk in particular, >becomes a large factor in the plot. I had some recollection of the twist >that comes at the end of the story but it is revealed in a different manner >in the book and I was totally absorbed by it. I re-read the last few pages >on the bus home and it started my brain off in all kinds of different >directions. But underneath it all was the line, set to Joni's melody, >'study war no more, lay down your arms' and just like in 'The Tea Leaf >Prophecy' it repeated itself over and over. > >This has probably been discussed before and if I've written basically the >same thing before, all I can say is if I've written basically the same thing >before, all I can say is if I've written basically the same thing before.... > >The needle gets stuck in a groove sometimes, I guess. > >The line about Hiroshima in the final verse of the song is a strong >statement about the ultimate evil inherent in war. But if you think about >it, if it hadn't been for the war, there might not have been a 'young flight >sergeant on two weeks leave'. The man in question might not have been in >the military at all, let alone on two weeks leave. > >So Bill and Myrtle might never have met had there not been a WWII. > >It makes me wonder if 'study war no more' has a wee tinge of irony in it as >it repeats itself throughout the song. I am in no way implying that there >is a pro-war message there. Joni has made her feelings on that subject >clearly known almost from the start of her career. But I think the thought >must have crossed her mind at some point that she might not exist if that >huge historical event had not sent its waves of circumstance all the way to >Regina Saskatchewan back in 1943 and brought a man and a woman together . > >Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 12:40:38 -0700 (PDT) From: carmel rotem Subject: how do I join the list facebook group? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 20:34:43 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: The Tea Leaf Prophecy I'm glad to see that some activity was awakened here. I was beginning to be afraid that the JMDL was fading away into cyberspace oblivion. But I honestly thought I had screwed up. Lieve, It's great to see you writing here and thank you for saving my bacon. After I had sent the post, there was something about it that gave me the feeling there was a hole in it somewhere. I went back and skimmed through his obituary and I got the impression Bill Anderson joined the Canadian Air Force out of a burning desire to learn to fly planes. Now that I look at it again, it doesn't really say that he didn't join because of the war. Maybe he wanted to be a pilot so he could fly combat missions in Europe. And even if that weren't the case, maybe the war had something to do with where he was stationed and the timing of his 'two weeks leave'. So maybe there was some validity to my theory that without the war, there might not have been a Roberta Joan Anderson. And Lieve, you made some wonderful observations about the chaotic nature of life, how bad intentions can bring about good consequences and how the reverse is true as well. Many people die in wars or are horribly maimed. Then again, how many soldiers met their spouses in places where they would never have been if they had not been fighting in a war? Sue, One of the final episodes in the novel 'Atonement' takes place at the Imperial War Museum in London. My friend Melanie wanted to go that museum while we were in England together. It would never have occurred to me to do so. But I have been there and seen the two huge gun barrels that lie on the grounds in front of the entrance. There was a documentary about genocide that was playing continuously in a small theater somewhere on on one of the museum's upper levels. It was very revealing, informative and fascinating in a morbid kind of way. I agree that it is disheartening and sickening to know that the Holocaust was by no means the last occurrence of genocide in our world. Bob, I have often had the same thought about that 'don't have kids when you get grown' line. The words may have been Joni's invention or maybe she really heard them come out of her mother's mouth at some point. And I agree, it would be a very sad thing for a child to hear his or her mother say them. I don't think it would be the first time that some horrendous example of man's inhumanity to man has brought about that reaction. How can you bring children into a world where such horrible things happen? But if that kind of defeatist attitude had ever prevailed, the human race would have been extinct a long time ago. We go on and continue to hope our species and the world we live in will somehow evolve into something better. And, after all, 'the wash needs ironing and the fire needs stoking'. Life does indeed go on. Bill Anderson's frustration at not being able to become a pilot makes me wonder if he did have a 'dream to fly' that he passed on to his daughter. Joni has written so often about flight and 'loving the freedom of all flying things'. Do you think maybe she got that from her dad? I don't want to ramble on forever here, hogging bandwidth. But it feels so good to be reading the words of your thoughts and to be writing my own to you again. I do so hope we keep this forum alive. I can hardly believe how long it has been a part of my life now. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Lieve Reckers Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 2:01 AM To: Mark ; joni Subject: Re: The Tea Leaf Prophecy Mark, I don't think that any info in Mr Anderson's obit is any reason to ignore your beautifully written post! It does not matter if a particular theory may not be valid, the thought behind it is much more broad and remains valid. And it just reminded me of my favourite theory: everything is chaos and random good or bad luck, without much sense or justice, and still throughout this mess we should have our own imperative to "do the right thing" (i.e. to only do to others as we would wish to be done to us). So yes, we can probably all find terrible things like war or accidents which have set off good coincidences and meetings which may have led to the birth of a genius. But in the same way good intentions may have led to the birth of mass killers. There is just no justice... And still we should never stop trying to do the right thing... Just my quick personal reaction, maybe not in the direction you had in mind, but thanks for prompting a reaction at all, I feel like I am waking up! Big hug, Lieve ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #242 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe