From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #219 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, July 11 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 219 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- re:Joni Mitchell's Blue: a 40th Anniversary Celebration [Bob.Muller@Fluor] Joni versu Fiona. [Merk54@aol.com] Re: Joni versus Fiona. [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni Mitchell's Blue: a 40th Anniversary Celebration [Merk54@aol.com] Re: Joni versu Fiona. [Shari Eaton ] Re: Second Fret [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Great Joni interviews [Paul Ivice ] RE: Rare Joni videos [Susan Tierney McNamara ] RE: Great Joni interviews [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #987 ["Mark" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 07:43:29 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: re:Joni Mitchell's Blue: a 40th Anniversary Celebration CC - must be bad karma? Anyway, don't despair, pick up the CD. I got my copy yesterday and listened this morning on my AM commute. I definitely like what I hear thus far. Bob NP: Laura Nyro, "When I Was A Freeport And You Were The Main Drag" From: c Karma To: Date: 07/10/2012 11:50 PM Subject: re:Joni Mitchell's Blue: a 40th Anniversary Celebration Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org My office is a single block away from NY City Winery...how disappointing that I'm in LA this week and next, and not able to go see that show. I suppose it would have been worse had I gotten tickets and then not been able to attend. CC - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:24:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Joni versu Fiona. So all of this talk about Joni versus Fiona really peaked my interest. Prior to this, I had none of Fionabs music, and knew very little about her. Trusting the extremely high taste level of the JMDL, I decided to purchase her new CD and buy a ticket for her concert last night at the Chicago Theatre. I think the CD will take a few listens to before I can pass judgment on it, but the show last night was amazing. I havenbt been able to dig into her lyrics yet, so I canbt really compare them to Jonibs, but from a live concert perspective, they are very different artists. In my opinion, Fiona was much closer to Patti Smith than Joni. There is much more venom in her presentation then anything Joni has done (maybe her live version of Banquet comes close). Fiona was a very visceral performer, twisting and twitching and contorting her body, as if she was exorcising the songs from inside her. Joni has always been a master of melancholy to me, where Fiona emoted more rage - kind of like heartache versus heartbreak, drama versus trauma, contemplation versus catharsis. Its almost like Joni might be sad at how things turned out, but bNo regrets, Coyoteb, where as Fiona is mad as hell and is going to let you know it. Again, all of this is based solely upon her performance. Once I dig into her lyrics, I might have an entirely different opinion. Anyway, just thought I would share this since this was discussed recently. And thanks! This discussion turned me on to a great concert. If you have a chance to see her, I highly recommend going. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:48:19 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni versus Fiona. Jack, Thanks for that - very insightful and although I have not seen her I do have all of her albums and I can imagine the performance you describe. I'm sure that part of that reflects the strides that women have made in our culture since Joni started up. Bob NP: Gin Blossoms, "Hands Are Tied" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 13:28:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell's Blue: a 40th Anniversary Celebration They are opening a City Winery here in Chicago and I've contacted them about bringing this show to Chicago. Probably unlikely since all the artists are from New York, but maybe since they have a CD out, they will be interested in promoting it. Keeping my fingers crossed. Robin and Dave, I think this would be a good venue if you ever plan on bringing the Mutts out east. The one in Chicago has some very nice talent booked already - Lindsey Buckingham, Cheryl Wheeler, Suzanne Vega, Shawn Colvin to name just a few. Pretty impressive line up for a place that only holds 300 people. Have you seen a show at the location in New York? Really looking forward to this place opening in Chicago. If there are any Chicago fans out there that would like to see this show, try contacting the City Winery and ask for it. The more people asking, the better our chances. The woman I spoke to is a huge Blue fan so she was very interested in trying to make this happen. Jack In a message dated 7/10/2012 10:57:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ckarma@hotmail.com writes: My office is a single block away from NY City Winery...how disappointing that I'm in LA this week and next, and not able to go see that show. I suppose it would have been worse had I gotten tickets and then not been able to attend. CC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:50:26 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: Joni versu Fiona. As much as we'd all love a lot more Joni like influence in our lives I'm quite certain we all know in our hearts that she is simply unique and irreplaceable. Shari On Jul 11, 2012, at 12:24 PM, Merk54@aol.com wrote: > So all of this talk about Joni versus Fiona really peaked my interest. > Prior to this, I had none of Fionabs music, and knew very little about her. > Trusting the extremely high taste level of the JMDL, I decided to purchase > her new CD and buy a ticket for her concert last night at the Chicago > Theatre. I think the CD will take a few listens to before I can pass judgment > on > it, but the show last night was amazing. I havenbt been able to dig into > her lyrics yet, so I canbt really compare them to Jonibs, but from a live > concert perspective, they are very different artists. In my opinion, Fiona > was much closer to Patti Smith than Joni. There is much more venom in her > presentation then anything Joni has done (maybe her live version of > Banquet comes close). Fiona was a very visceral performer, twisting and > twitching and contorting her body, as if she was exorcising the songs from > inside > her. > Joni has always been a master of melancholy to me, where Fiona emoted more > rage - kind of like heartache versus heartbreak, drama versus trauma, > contemplation versus catharsis. Its almost like Joni might be sad at how > things > turned out, but bNo regrets, Coyoteb, where as Fiona is mad as hell and > is going to let you know it. Again, all of this is based solely upon her > performance. Once I dig into her lyrics, I might have an entirely different > opinion. > Anyway, just thought I would share this since this was discussed recently. > And thanks! This discussion turned me on to a great concert. If you > have a chance to see her, I highly recommend going. > Jack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 07:33:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Second Fret Hi Jussi - welcome back to the JMDL. You can probably find a torrent for the 2nd Fret Sets fairly easily - if not I can upload mine and send you a link. And YES, a complete "Just Like Me" is available. Bob NP: Todd Rundgren, "Mercenary" From: Jussi Pukkila To: joni@smoe.org Date: 07/09/2012 10:34 PM Subject: Second Fret Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org Hello I was a member of this group/list years ago and got some tapes (cassettes) from the Tape Tree. Recently I've listened to Joni a lot once again and also dug up the box with all those tapes. I did a little online searching and found out that the Second Fret sets, with all those early recordings, have been made available on CD(R) since and I'm wondering if it's still possible to get copies from someone. I found a torrent for the 3-disc The Posall and the Mosalm set, but noticed it's not entirely the same. My old tapes seem to have more material, especially chat between songs. A few questions come to mind: - - The Posall and the Mosalm set has really good sound quality - was the CD Tree (or whatever it was called) made from cassette copies or some better source? - - Has the complete "Just Like Me" been found? - --jussi - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 07:35:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Ivice Subject: Great Joni interviews On the subject of Great Joni Interviews, Susan Tierney McNamara wwrote: My favorite interview of Joni is the August 1996 cover feature in Acoustic Guitar magazine. The photos are classic, the article is wonderful (writer Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers), and there is an awesome gear section and a spot on transcription of Just Like This Train. I also love that this article came out after Turbulent Indigo, which really reveals the full circle of the guitar odyssey as Mr. Rodgers describes it. For me, it is the 1979 "Ignorance is Bliss" interview with Down Beat (http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=95&from=search) in which Joni details her first forays into jazz. Excerpt: All the time that I've been a musician, I've always been a bit of an oddball. When I was considered a folk musician, people would always tell me that I was playing the wrong chords, traditionally speaking. When I fell into a circle of rock 'n' roll musicians and began to look for a band, they told me I'd better get jazz musicians to play with me, because my rhythmic sense and my harmonic sense were more expansive. The voicings were broader; the songs were deceptively simple. And when a drummer wouldn't notice where the feel changed, or where the accent on the beat would change, and they would just march through it in the rock 'n' roll tradition, I would be very disappointed and say, "Didn't you notice there was a pressure point here," or "Here we change," and they just would tell me, 'Joni, you better start playing with jazz musicians." Then, when I began to play with studio jazz musicians, whose hearts were in jazz but who could play anything, they began to tell me that I wasn't playing the root of the chord. So all the way along, no matter who I played with, I seemed to be a bit of an oddball. I feel more natural in the company that I'm keeping now, because we talk more metaphorically about music. There's less talk and more play. You've been associating with jazz studio musicians for how long? Four years. I made Court Spark five albums ago. Did that come about by design or by accident? The songs were written and I was still looking for a band intact, rather than having to piece a band together myself. Prior to that album, I had done a few things with Tom Scott, mostly doubling of existing guitar lines. I wanted it to be a repetition or gilding of existing notes within my structure. So through him, I was introduced to that band. I went down to hear them at the Baked Potato in Studio City and that's how all that came about. They all found it extremely difficult at first, hearing the music just played and sung by one person; it sounded very frail and delicate, and there were some very eggshelly early sessions where they were afraid they would squash it, whereas I had all the confidence in the world that if they played strongly, I would play more strongly. So from that point on you worked with the L.A. Express? We worked together for a couple of years, in the studio and on the road. Did that expand your knowledge, being around them so much? Not really, not in an academic sense. It gave me the opportunity to play with a band and to discover what that was like. But I still was illiterate in that I not only couldn't read, but I didn't know - and don't to this day - what key I'm playing in, or the names of my chords. I don't know the numbers, letters, or the staff. I approach it very paintingly, metaphorically: so I rely on someone that I'm playing with, or the players themselves, to sketch out the chart of the changes. I would prefer that we all just jumped on it and really listened. Miles always gave very little direction, as I understand. It was just "Play it. If you don't know the chord there, don't play there," and that system served him well. It was a natural editing system. It created a lot of space and a lot of tension, because everybody had to be incredibly alert and trust their ears. And I think that's maybe why I loved that music as much as I did, because it seemed very alert and very sensual and very unwritten. And you, in turn, trusted your own ears. I do trust my own ears. Even for things that seem too outside. For instance, sometimes I'm told that So-and-So in the band, if I hadn't already noticed, was playing outside the chord. I see that there's a harmonic dissonance created; but I also think that the line that he's created, the arc of it, bears some relationship to something else that's being played, therefore it's valid. So in my ignorance there's definitely a kind of bliss. I don't have to be concerned with some knowledge that irritates other people. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 18:39:20 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Rare Joni videos This one's for Jussi - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCLOMBbRVB0 Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Shari Eaton Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:27 PM To: JONIMITCHELL DISCUSSION LIST Subject: Rare Joni videos Gift of the Magi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_nJSAwQaoA Joni Mitchell in Laurel Canyon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRu-DmBEvH4&feature=related I stumbled upon The Gift of the Magi yesterday. It was a first listen for me so thought I'd pass it along and see if there were any other hidden gems that anyone else knew of. Cheers, Shari ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:26:13 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Great Joni interviews Plus, although there are a few early titles she kept in her set lists for years, including Both Sides Now, Cactus Tree, Big Yellow Taxi etc, she would regularly shed older tunes for the new ones she was excited about. Recently, I was working on That Song About The Midway, which I think is an excellent song, but I don't think she ever played it again after 1970. Of course, I could be wrong, but there is also the London show where people are calling out songs from her pre-recording era, which had only been at the most, two years earlier, and she was aghast ... "Carnival in Kenora? I don't remember those songs, man!" :-) This would be a good trivia question ... what year did she stop playing dulcimer on stage? Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:04 AM To: Shari Eaton Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Great Joni interviews Joel Bernstein took care of that for her. Bob NP: Ben Folds, "Learn To Live With What You Are" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 16:13:04 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #987 I took a look at Fiona's latest in Starbuck's yesterday. I don't know if the title is a lyric from one of the songs or any indication of the content but it seems to me to have much more of an edge to it than most of Joni's output. The Idler Wheel Is Wiser Than the Driver of the Screw and Whipping Cords Will Serve You More Than Ropes Will Ever Do I think Joni does have some edge in some of her work, however. I don't know about popular artists in music today. I get a kick out of Lady Gaga. I'm on the fence about Adele. Debating whether I want to buy one of her CDs or not. I've seen Adele on TV and she reminds me a bit of Dusty Springfield. I have Laura Marling's last one in my Amazon wish list and haven't bought it yet. I didn't have a whole lot of disposable income in the years when most of you were buying a lot of music. It made me very selective and that seems to have stayed with me over the years. I've 'discovered' music in the last 10 or so years that is more than 30 or 40 years old now. Dusty Springfield is a good example. I never knew what a wonderful singer she was until I picked up the Rhino 'Dusty in Memphis' with extra tracks sometime after it was released in 1999. I do think that movies have become so box office driven that it is almost impossible to find anything that, for me anyway, is worth paying money to see. Everything is either a remake of an older movie, a graphically gory movie about vampires or some other supernatural predatory creature, an outlandishly plotted action thriller with lots of explosions and special effects, a take-off on some old television sit-com, Pixar animated with those shiny looking, kinda cutesy, kinda scary looking critters that spout out smart remarks or some inane comedy with silly and/or scatological content that passes for humor. Lately there has also been a trend of making the same fairy tales that Disney used to make hand-drawn animated films out of and putting a new, dark, edgy slant on them. No, thank you. End of rant. Back to the shadows. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Gary Hanick Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:01 PM To: joni@smoe.org ; joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2012 #987 Yes, I agree. No one will ever take Joni's musical place, or her influence on so many of us...and why should they? But I think even Joni would agree that it's time to open the windows and let the air start to circulate. Her music will always be with us; it's part of our genetic structure, I think. Just as the impressionists gave rise to new art forms and it continued to evolve, we can only hope the same will happen with popular music. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, but the last 25 years, or so, have not been encouraging. There've been no Elvis, Dylan, Beatles, Stones, Elton, Springsteen, Michael Jackson, Aretha, Whitney, or Madonna to STIR the mass imagination. It's been very fractured. It's always been about making money, but we've taken that, as with everything else, and ran it off a cliff. I am sure I am going to get called on this...it's just my opinion. Had popular music been more inspirational, perhaps the world would not be in quite the funk it is these days -- and has been for awhile! The 60's and 70's would have been deadly without the music. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni-digest@smoe.org] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:57 PM To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #987 JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 11 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 987 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Re: Joni versu Fiona. [Shari Eaton ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:50:26 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: Joni versu Fiona. As much as we'd all love a lot more Joni like influence in our lives I'm quite certain we all know in our hearts that she is simply unique and irreplaceable. Shari On Jul 11, 2012, at 12:24 PM, Merk54@aol.com wrote: > So all of this talk about Joni versus Fiona really peaked my interest. > Prior to this, I had none of Fionabs music, and knew very little about her. > Trusting the extremely high taste level of the JMDL, I decided to purchase > her new CD and buy a ticket for her concert last night at the Chicago > Theatre. I think the CD will take a few listens to before I can pass judgment > on > it, but the show last night was amazing. I havenbt been able to dig into > her lyrics yet, so I canbt really compare them to Jonibs, but from a live > concert perspective, they are very different artists. In my opinion, Fiona > was much closer to Patti Smith than Joni. There is much more venom in her > presentation then anything Joni has done (maybe her live version of > Banquet comes close). Fiona was a very visceral performer, twisting and > twitching and contorting her body, as if she was exorcising the songs from > inside > her. > Joni has always been a master of melancholy to me, where Fiona emoted more > rage - kind of like heartache versus heartbreak, drama versus trauma, > contemplation versus catharsis. Its almost like Joni might be sad at how > things > turned out, but bNo regrets, Coyoteb, where as Fiona is mad as hell and > is going to let you know it. Again, all of this is based solely upon her > performance. Once I dig into her lyrics, I might have an entirely different > opinion. > Anyway, just thought I would share this since this was discussed recently. > And thanks! This discussion turned me on to a great concert. If you > have a chance to see her, I highly recommend going. > Jack - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2012 #987 ***************************** - ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. 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