From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #184 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, June 20 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 184 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni and Klein and Luciana and Don [mflaher3@yahoo.com] Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote [carmel rotem wrote: > Sue asked "Also, isn't it true that Joni and Klein are still good friends?" > > It sounds like they are on good terms, but he has a lovely and brilliant wife, a busy career, and most importantly a little boy to keep him busy. I'm sure Joni has plenty to keep her busy as well. I've never seen either of them say anything very negative about each other. Joni's complaint about her husband suddenly becoming a producer may be the worst of it. > > I hate to see Luciana Souza disparaged for basically not being Joni. I wish she hadn't done Amelia with Herbie Hancock because it invited the comparison. (Down to You didn't get much attention.) Everyone said she sounded like a young Joni. Either they weren't listening closely, or they were just being mean. What woman wants to be compared to their ex-husband's new wife? What singer-songwriter wants to be held against the standard of a legend? Of course, they did get Grammys from that project ;) > > Just my observation...when you look like Joni, men will put up with a lot of inconvenience to have you on their arm. She's probably been more of a dumper. But Don Freed was the one who wanted out, wasn't he? > > Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 03:00:17 -0700 (PDT) From: carmel rotem Subject: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote Hi Everyone, just heard the Stones's "Waiting on a friend" on the radio this morning, and the guitar at the background there reminded me of Coyote alot. is it just my imagination looking for Joni everywhere? does anyone hear it too? Carmel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:01:51 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote (and Patrice Moerman) I think another aspect to the similarity is that Keith Richards also uses a lot of alternate tunings. This may be in a tuning very close to Coyote, CGDFCE. Bob, I also wanted to tell you that I thought the covers by Patrice Moerman were very interesting! The guitar work was very true to Joni ( and she may be a user of the tab database!!). Was she playing guitar? Take care, Sue Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:14 AM To: Victor Cc: Catherine McKay; carmel rotem; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote Personally, I don't think either party (Joni or Keith) ripped off the other. The chords certainly aren't exact, and with so many people making so much music, similarities will abound. The same near-riff exists in America's "Three Roses" to my ears. It's just a great riff. I remember listening to Coyote for the first time and just falling in love with that riff from the start. It was the perfect song to lead off Hejira with...Joni ain't no fool. Carmel, thanks for the thread. Bob NP: The Beatles, "Sexy Sadie" PS: Victor, I listened to Fiona's new one this morning and liked it a bunch - she has a definite sound and it's fully utilized here. Looking forward to more listenings. - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:19:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote (and Patrice Moerman) Thanks for checking those out, Sue - you can possibly imagine how I was salivating when I discovered an artist covering "Strange Boy", "Don't Interrupt...", "Shadows & Light"...and yes, I had the same thought about her guitar work - it was pretty much SPOT ON like Joni's work. I'd bet $10 she used the JM Tabs on the site as a guide. You KNOW that someone is a real Joni fan when they pick those deep tracks out. And still, the search for a "Dancing Clown" goes on... Bob NP: Tears For Fears, "Woman In Chains" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:05:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote Carmel, thanks for mentioning this. I've always heard "Coyote" in that opening riff of "Waiting on a friend." From my (very minimal) research, "Waiting on a friend" was first played as early as 1970, first recorded in 1972-73 (but without lyrics) but not released; recorded again in 1981 and released the same year. Early boot recordings of "Coyote" from live concerts appeared around 1975 and "Hejira" was released in 1976. I've found other references to people comparing the two, with one side accusing Mitchell of lifting from Keith Richards (who uses open tunings as well) and others accusing the Stones of lifting from her. I'd prefer to think of it as an hommage, rather than one stealing from the other. If "Waiting on a friend" was, in fact, written and recorded earlier than "Coyote," but not released, did Joni ever hear it and was the opening guitar riff the same as the one that was released in 1981? I have no idea. >________________________________ > From: carmel rotem >To: JMDL >Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:00:17 AM >Subject: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote > > >Hi Everyone, > >just heard the Stones's "Waiting on a friend" on the radio >this morning, and the guitar at the background there reminded me of Coyote >alot. >is it just my imagination looking for Joni everywhere? does anyone hear >it too? > >Carmel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:06:07 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote Catherine, There are many artists who used alternate tunings during this period including Nick Drake, Pink Floyd, the Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc. I think the difference with Joni is that she created many more variations than some of her contemporaries. I think it's interesting that all of those names are British. Hmmm, another point for the argument that Joni is Prog? :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:05 AM To: carmel rotem; JMDL Subject: Re: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote Carmel, thanks for mentioning this. I've always heard "Coyote" in that opening riff of "Waiting on a friend." From my (very minimal) research, "Waiting on a friend" was first played as early as 1970, first recorded in 1972-73 (but without lyrics) but not released; recorded again in 1981 and released the same year. Early boot recordings of "Coyote" from live concerts appeared around 1975 and "Hejira" was released in 1976. I've found other references to people comparing the two, with one side accusing Mitchell of lifting from Keith Richards (who uses open tunings as well) and others accusing the Stones of lifting from her. I'd prefer to think of it as an hommage, rather than one stealing from the other. If "Waiting on a friend" was, in fact, written and recorded earlier than "Coyote," but not released, did Joni ever hear it and was the opening guitar riff the same as the one that was released in 1981? I have no idea. >________________________________ > From: carmel rotem >To: JMDL >Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:00:17 AM >Subject: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote > > >Hi Everyone, > >just heard the Stones's "Waiting on a friend" on the radio this >morning, and the guitar at the background there reminded me of Coyote >alot. >is it just my imagination looking for Joni everywhere? does anyone hear >it too? > >Carmel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:52:27 -0400 From: Victor Subject: Re: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote I agree Catherine. There's a difference between intentionally trying to exploit and use the chords/melodies in a song, to thinly veil "your own" song as opposed to simply being inspired and writing in the same vein, mood, neighborhood. For example, on the new John Mayer album, the main theme from the song "Shadow Days" strongly suggests the Bob Seger song "Main Street" but it's subtle and the Mayer song stands well on it's own. Victor in Atlanta NP: Fiona Apple "Periphery" Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2012, at 8:05 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > Carmel, thanks for mentioning this. I've always heard "Coyote" in that opening riff of "Waiting on a friend." > > From my (very minimal) research, "Waiting on a friend" was first played as early as 1970, first recorded in 1972-73 (but without lyrics) but not released; recorded again in 1981 and released the same year. > > Early boot recordings of "Coyote" from live concerts appeared around 1975 and "Hejira" was released in 1976. > > I've found other references to people comparing the two, with one side accusing Mitchell of lifting from Keith Richards (who uses open tunings as well) and others accusing the Stones of lifting from her. I'd prefer to think of it as an hommage, rather than one stealing from the other. If "Waiting on a friend" was, in fact, written and recorded earlier than "Coyote," but not released, did Joni ever hear it and was the opening guitar riff the same as the one that was released in 1981? I have no idea. > > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: carmel rotem >> To: JMDL >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:00:17 AM >> Subject: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote >> >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> just heard the Stones's "Waiting on a friend" on the radio >> this morning, and the guitar at the background there reminded me of Coyote >> alot. >> is it just my imagination looking for Joni everywhere? does anyone hear >> it too? >> >> Carmel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:26:57 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote (and Patrice Moerman) You mean you don't include the Idyllwild version in the Covers Vault? I think, of course, you should!! :) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com [mailto:Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:20 AM To: Susan Tierney McNamara Cc: Catherine McKay; carmel rotem; joni@smoe.org; Victor Subject: RE: Stones "Waiting on a friend" guitar Vs. Coyote (and Patrice Moerman) Thanks for checking those out, Sue - you can possibly imagine how I was salivating when I discovered an artist covering "Strange Boy", "Don't Interrupt...", "Shadows & Light"...and yes, I had the same thought about her guitar work - it was pretty much SPOT ON like Joni's work. I'd bet $10 she used the JM Tabs on the site as a guide. You KNOW that someone is a real Joni fan when they pick those deep tracks out. And still, the search for a "Dancing Clown" goes on... Bob NP: Tears For Fears, "Woman In Chains" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #184 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe