From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #122 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, April 29 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 122 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Peter Herbert's "Joni" [David Lahm ] Re: No Joni in Milan - cancel that flight Sue! [Bob Muller ] Re: Peter Herbert's "Joni" [FMYFL@aol.com] Retro Covers #65 [Bob Muller ] Re: Peter Herbert's "Joni" [Bob Muller ] RE: Peter Herbert's "Joni" ["kbhla" ] Re: speaking out of turn [LC Stanley ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 10:05:45 -0400 From: David Lahm Subject: Re: Peter Herbert's "Joni" I really wanted to name it after a line from her lyrics and I gave several to the record co. My favorite was "Renegade Stories." But they preferred the humdrum Jazz Takes on...with its faint whiff of sexual suggestiveness. Peter Herbert was very patient and extremely helpful as I prepared; I remember a two-hour stint he put in as I worked out "The Blonde in the Bleachers." DL On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 7:50 AM, wrote: > I haven't read the liner notes yet Kakki. I had no idea that Peter > performed on David's album. I also can't believe that "Jazz Takes on Joni > Mitchell" is from '99. It seems like only a few year's ago David was > asking the list > for suggestions for the title of his CD. He didn't stick with > mine......."Out on a Lahm with Joni Mithcell" :-) > but at least he was nice enough to autograph it for me at the first > Pazfest. > > Jimmy > > In a message dated 4/28/2012 5:01:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > kbhla@fastmail.fm writes: > > > Also liked and was partially swayed by the Peter Herbert connection to > > David Lahm - he performed on Lahm's stellar 1999 "Jazz Takes on Joni > > Mitchell." > > > > > > > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 08:20:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: No Joni in Milan - cancel that flight Sue! Danilo, I'm sad for you too. Perhaps someday, we will always keep our hope. And if you're ashamed of the way Italian companies operate, try living in America! Bob NP: Mike Ragogna, "Night Ride Home Medley" ________________________________ From: Danilo Monno To: Bob Muller ; "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:56 AM Subject: RE: No Joni in Milan - cancel that flight Sue! :( I was so expecting that. Let me try to explain what happened. Some companies have been bidding for a contract to organize the Festival and the winning company won of course because of the artists they presented, although they did not have any kind of agreement with the company. This is so typical Italian. I'm so sad and ashamed. Danilo > Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:23:46 -0700 > From: scjoniguy@yahoo.com > Subject: No Joni in Milan - cancel that flight Sue! > To: joni@smoe.org > > http://tinyurl.com/chdosx8 > > What I could translate from this article in > Italian states that Joni's management has QUICKLY denied that she will be > performing at this event. > > As I suspected, too good to be true. > > Bob > > NP: > Steve Situm, "Michael From Mountains" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:36:57 +0100 From: damian mccomb Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #633 I concur emphatically. What makes recorded music great is rawness, directness, authenticity. Or as Joni, in reference to Nietzsche, would say, writing/painting/singing in "one's own blood". Or Baudelaire's "my heart laid bare" not "my heart airbrushed and tarted up with studio trickery". When something like Autotune is used we are dealing with deception from the start. There's a disconnect and artifice which makes a mockery of the audience and any hope of a meaningful connection to the artist is gone. Even Joni's use of the Roland guitar synthesizer on later albums felt like somewhat of a betrayal, though a necessary one for her I guess and she used it with her characteristic imagination and flair. On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 6:41 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Saturday, April 28 2012 Volume 2012 : Number > 633 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #607 [Christopher Treacy >] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:38:34 -0700 (PDT) > From: Christopher Treacy > Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #607 > > Catherine, > The differentiation you make pretty much summarizes it (although > now--truly evil--instruments are often monitored with corrective software > as > well). It all falls under the heading of "digital signal processing," and > it's > one of the reasons I really started to lose my patience as a music > critic... > people don't play fair anymore. I won't co-sign for it. I love going to see > Shawn Colvin - just a gal and her guitar, warts and all. She won't even > use an > electronic guitar tuner. > > > Autotune was actually available in some capacity > before 1997 - I interviewed a CEO at Antares and spoke with the gentleman > who > designed the software plug-in for pro-tools that Antares ended up buying. > He > told me the original idea was to use it in community settings - > specifically > his (or his wife's, can't remember now) church choir. He said he'd feel > gutted > to know he'd unleashed something that was detrimental to our culture. And I > happen to think autotune is, in fact, damaging beyond our wildest > imaginations. Kids who listen to mainstream pop (including Taylor Swift, > who'd > be NOTHING without her pitch correction and vocal production value) don't > really know what the human voice sounds like anymore. So, when they hear > someone like Neil Young, they can't get past how pitch-y his vocal style > is to > appreciate his artistry. Indie-pop fans are substantially better off > because > they thrive on a certain lo-fi scrappiness, but pitch control is still used > there > too, albeit more gingerly. > > > Joni is involved enough in the production of > her projects to make sure they stay pure, but a lot of "recording artists" > are > not nearly as involved in the production, mixing and mastering of their > recordings and AT/Melodyne is applied without their knowledge or say-so. I > don't have a big issue with someone using pitch correction to get over a > really difficult hump in the studio. And I might even be willing to look > the > other way when someone uses it sparingly in a live setting, if they simply > can't get around an important note and people have paid big bucks to hear > them > hit it (James Taylor and Carole King, for instance, applied some sparing > pitch > correction to their shows a couple summers ago). But this notion of > entirely > pitch-corrected shows and songs on the radio makes it impossible for me to > enjoy. Even folks like Mary J Blige are suspect. People think she's a vocal > powerhouse, but it's not so. Mariah Carey has done so much damage to her > voice > over > the years, she couldn't tour without it, unless she's going to sync the > whole > show. Between vocal fills and pitch correction, Mariah probably sings about > 25% of the material she does live. > > People will defend pitch correction and > say it makes them a better singer because they can focus more on powerful > delivery and less on coloring within the lines, but I would say the people > genuinely benefiting from it are few and far between. For most, I think it > breeds laziness. > > I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but I'm sure > Joni used something called vari-speed from time to time. It was the pitch > control of the 70's and basically involved slight increases and decreases > in > the speed of the vocal line to preserve the pitch when joined with the > rest of > the studio tracks. There was another tool used in the 80's, the name of > which > escapes me now. In summary, there's always been some studio 'cheating,' but > nothing like what we're witnessing now. > > > Sorry for the long rant - I saw > this come up amid the Taylor Swift commentary and had to speak up. > > > Cheers, > Chris > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: JMDL Digest > > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Sent: Thursday, April > 26, 2012 4:04 PM > Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #607 > > > JMDL Digest > Thursday, April 26 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 607 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS > and authors in this Digest: > - -------- > Re: auto tune? (NJC) > [Catherine McKay ] > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: > Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:02:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Catherine McKay > > Subject: Re: auto tune? (NJC) > > Maybe I don't really > understand how Autotune works, but isn't the voice > processed through something > that "corrects" it, whereas a guitar tuner just > helps you tune your guitar, > but doesn't process it to keep it in tune? > Seriously, I dunno. I don't have a > guitar tuner. All I've got is a metronome > that also plays an A and then I tune > the strings relative to the A string and > it works. Sometimes I go to one of > those online guitar tuners. > > > How much of a > correction is it possible to make > to someone's voice if the person is > seriously offkey? Does it only work if the > person is slightly flat or slightly > sharp? And then there's the vocals on > "Glee" where, to me, all of the people > seem to have the same voice. I wouldn't > be able to tell one from the other, > and they all sound like something > generated by a computer in any case. There's > just something *wrong* about they > way they sound, and it's not easy to put a > finger on what it is. I'm not sure > what's worse: the voices that all sound the > same, or the ones that use > Autotune (I'm assuming that's what it is) to > deliberately distort their voices > (and yet, they still all sound the same.) > Didn't know about click tracks for > drummers. I guess if it works like a > metronome, it's OK for practice, but > seems kind of wrong for live playing, > although I'm not really sure why: I just > think that, by the time they're ready > to perform, they should have it down. > >________________________________ > > > From: Dave Blackburn > > >To: Lori Fye > > >Cc: jmdl > > >Sent: Thursday, April > 26, 2012 3:46:24 PM > >Subject: > Re: auto tune? (NJC) > > > >At this point > Auto-tuning on most pop vocals is akin > to Photoshop on magazine models. ie the > rule not the exception. > > > >Is it so > different though from electronic tuners > helping you tune your guitar > accurately or click tracks helping drummers stay > at a steady tempo? It's just > a more advanced gadget. Maybe we've always jumped > at the chance to "improve" > our playing/singing... > > - ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest > V2012 #607 > ***************************** > > - ------- > To post messages to the > list, send tojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > - ------- > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2012 #633 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, send tojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:50:48 -0400 (EDT) From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Peter Herbert's "Joni" I haven't read the liner notes yet Kakki. I had no idea that Peter performed on David's album. I also can't believe that "Jazz Takes on Joni Mitchell" is from '99. It seems like only a few year's ago David was asking the list for suggestions for the title of his CD. He didn't stick with mine......."Out on a Lahm with Joni Mithcell" :-) but at least he was nice enough to autograph it for me at the first Pazfest. Jimmy In a message dated 4/28/2012 5:01:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kbhla@fastmail.fm writes: > Also liked and was partially swayed by the Peter Herbert connection to > David Lahm - he performed on Lahm's stellar 1999 "Jazz Takes on Joni > Mitchell." > > > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 08:10:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Retro Covers #65 Happy weekend to everyone - while I have covers on the brain, here's a retread of Volume 65 for those of you playing catchup or who might have missed it the first time. http://tinyurl.com/7cwm9mu 1. Mike Ragogna - Night Ride Home Medley 2. Matt Flinders - Both Sides Now 3. Volker Niehusmann & Christiane Weber - For Free 4. Volker Niehusmann & Christiane Weber - Conversation 5. Volker Niehusmann & Christiane Weber - The Circle Game 6. The John Cameron Orchestra - Both Sides Now 7. Rose Mary Rees - Chelsea Morning (Purple Mix) 8. Wally Whyton - Big Yellow Taxi 9. Ken Hamilton - The Circle Game 10. Joe Cantada - Both Sides Now 11. Robert Mosci - River 12. Voce - Big Yellow Taxi 13. Susan Jansen - The Circle Game 14. Steve Situm - Both Sides Now 15. Steve Situm - Michael From Mountains 16. Patrick McGinley & Family Style - Big Yellow Taxi 17. Gary Shum & Carl Occhipinti - The Circle Game 18. Alice Babs - Both Sides Now 19. Debra Blaquiere - Michael From Mountains 20. George Kahn - Woodstock 20 songs, 20 hits! (Actually a bit of a cheese platter but several here that you'll like I'm sure). Bob NP: George Kahn, "Woodstock" (my fave on the disc) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:20:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Peter Herbert's "Joni" Thanks Kakki, I thought you would appreciate this one. The record company graciously sent me 10 or so copies and I still have a few left. The liner notes are extensive and interesting - I won't attempt to re-create them, but he states that he was introduced to Joni by way of Jaco and the Mingus project which he found amazing. He states that half of the songs are from WTRF which he labels as 'worn out' in terms of sound. Further to that - "This judgement does, of course, by no means refer to the quality of the compositions, which are among Mitchell's best since the mid-1970's" I like the fact that it gives us our FIRST covers of WTRF (the song itself) as well as "Love Puts On A New Face". No BSN or BYT in sight, in fact only ONE song from a pre-WTRF record ("Blue"). That fact alone makes this an amazingly fresh album for me. The song stylings all follow the same pattern; Verena Pruka sings the melodic line in a Joni-like straightforward fashion, the Koehne Quartett and Herbert play unusual and at times jarring arrangements, and Wolfgang Mitterer tosses in weird noises from time to time to accent certain things. It's very unique, demands your attention, and rewards repeated listening. Bob NP: Debra Blaquiere, "Michael From Mountains" ________________________________ From: kbhla To: joni@smoe.org; scjoniguy@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 8:48 PM Subject: Peter Herbert's "Joni" Listening to Peter Herbert's "Joni" which was just released. It is a symphonic jazz take with Wolfgang Mitterer, the Koehne Quartett and ena (Verena Pruka) on vocals on 12 of Joni's later compositions and it is stunning. Right up there in the realm of the greatest Joni interpretations of David Lahm and Dave and Robyn and Mutts of the Planet. A recording that elevates Joni's music to beautiful new heights. Thanks very much to Bob tuning me in! Wish I could provide some clips but here is some detail from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PUHAW4/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=jonim itc01-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B007PUHAW4 Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 02:01:35 -0700 From: "kbhla" Subject: RE: Peter Herbert's "Joni" I agree it doesn't match the outstanding jazz interpretations of David Lahm and Dave and Robyn but was impressed by the effort to take on some of Joni's lesser known and jazz songs in a symphonic mode. I kept waiting for the vocals not to work in that setting but thought Pruka did consistently well and the overall quality of the music throughout was very high. I liked how they interpreted and transformed the songs in a unique way. Also liked and was partially swayed by the Peter Herbert connection to David Lahm - he performed on Lahm's stellar 1999 "Jazz Takes on Joni Mitchell." Kakki From: FMYFL@aol.com [mailto:FMYFL@aol.com] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 7:16 PM To: kbhla@fastmail.fm; joni@smoe.org; scjoniguy@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Peter Herbert's "Joni" I listened to it once today Kakki. As Jonimitchell.com says it's a unique arrangement, I agree. I like the song choices, and Verena Pruka on vocals, but the CD will have to grow on me. I don't think it's nearly as good as David Lahm or Dave and Robyn's compositions, but I think it might grow on me. Anything Joni is great, and thanks Bob for tuning me in also! Happy Weekend everyone! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:13:27 -0500 From: LC Stanley Subject: Re: speaking out of turn My contacts dried out before I got to the end of your post Peta. Ouch! Love, Laura (catching up on posts but only reading the most unique) On Apr 21, 2012, at 6:37 AM, "ingrid lochrenberg" wrote: > A suggestion about Morgellon's : before succumbing to general ill-heath last year on my admittance to Valkenberg Hospital and having endured sharp bites in my bed for a year or more which my dogs who sleep with me obviously weren't prey to, I visualised black spots on my feet, spot seemingly starting to grow out of my feet like wire and hair. For some cultures/religions, the individual is dispensable....I think that possibly Morgellon's is a form of chemical warfare practised by those who know that a certain level/escape velocity of individualism presents a threat to mass-delusion or self-glorification....even my insect repellant seemed poisonous to me and in fact when i plugged it out of it's socket i did immediately feel better. Individuality is so much more the powerful threat to mass-hysteria and general evilness and mass-delusion. Luckily people who sell their souls for power and glory can only be destructive: it is a choice to consciously inflict damage on other people, ....attacking the people who might mar your plans is so much more effective when they are isolated thereby....people who part with goodness consciously make themselves subordinate not to the creative, but to the destructive...blaming the devil for ones evilness is so cowardly and misinformed....every individual has to take responsibility....it is misguided to think that the devil ever was evil...what exactly it is that the devil did wrong i can only imagine....more likely it was 'man' being just as jealous as their god which was created in their image wanting all the glory...males, especially when they are beautiful which they soften are, sometimes seem deliriouss wiht their own beauty... boys are beautiful..if you experience jealousy it's a good idea to strive for it is you think you lack, instead of wanting to damage the person you're jealouss of...every thing is possible given enough time and sincere application. Chemical warfare on an individual basis exonerates cultures and religions...every religion has their criminals a! nd the c riminals should be publicly confronted, the utterings of the republicans in america seem to me positively evil at times. Deception is a distortion of reality and the mark of those that have chosen to be evil....identifying them is sometimes difficult and if you don't reach that insight in your mind, matter the material body will bring it to your awareness in a painful way. God made in the image of man was jealous....possibly of the god that people cry out to, women particularly when they are having a good time....in fact man, made in god's image are possibly more jealouss...i have in my life experienced by far the worse bitchiness from men.....in fact almost exclusively it has come toward me from men- women also leave me cold, they can be the worst of the lot and the worst psycopaths...endless feeding off other's libidos...at least men were left with a bigger spark,to be used for good or evil.....but the vanity of men far surpasses that of women.....glory is what they are after...(and please do not hold me to all of this-it is my truth for the moment- know i'm condemining left right and center- just want to get something of my chest)_...men are jealouss of the god that gets cried to during pleasure and at the threat of losing your life...i think god is the universe,a farther expance, a seafarer, a further wave a further expanse and that the goddess which is more than god has far more wisdom, any millions of them...isolating someone and then trying to destroy them is an excellent strategy for the criminal minded....people only are worthy of forgiveness if they put their evil intentions behind them...there should be no pressure on mortals to forgive one another.....if they do they do...maybe just better not to judge....but you have to have judgement and boot those with horribleness inside out of your life- it is their decision to be evil and the devil has tricked them and they's at the mercy of libido the life force.....Christ rejected the devil...the devil always gets the blame and maybe god was jealous ! of this entity but perhaps god and the devil are the same just that the devil has a space outside this universe having been banned there...lucifer or lillith is a bringer of the life principle...we're all at the mercy of the intent of the life 'force' libido is a better word, not the force for destruction which never creates but only destroys....thanatos is a redemmer cos you get reincarnated perhaps as a snail or a spider or a fish....boot those jealouss people out of your life joni...if they knew what was good for them they'd pursue their dreams with conviction that they can also create their destiny: if you deliberately choose to hurt someone for pleasure you are controlling or sadistic...if you're angry then go for it....anger is women best ally..i laugh a lot to myself....people's perversion will catch up with them: and if you want to live forever be at peace that all your lies and deceits will catch up with you.....if the bedbugs and chemical dust proliferates the whole world will be on anti-psychotics! God said dias dess...there are millions of goddesses but only 1 god, the pantheistic universe which has already come. God exits in deperation and in extreme pleasure- that is how i know that the word god has a place.....but i pray to the goddess, yoowah....I do also believe that jesus was imacculately conceivedbut it's virtually immaterial as as was the universe...it is emminently possible as the universe is a free lunch.....cretaing one semen (ite) is no problem for the creator...maybe i'll apply to be a rabbi but first i'd have to shake off my afrikanerdom (never considered myself anything but afrikaans-speaking, since i was raised afrikaans-speaking...but being an individual is the best of all. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2012 #122 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe