From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #380 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, December 30 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 380 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention [Anita G ] Re: Blue/Court and Spark live at Dizzy's DVD [Anita G ] New Judy Collins Book w/Joni content [Ken ] Annie Lennox Joni mention ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention [gerard mclaughlin ] Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention [gerard mclaughlin ] Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention, now Adele / Joni comparisons? [Merk54@aol.] Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention, etc ["Betsy Blue" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 17:45:41 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention I feel myself sitting so solidly on the fence when I say 'There have been some great finds on talent shows along with some dross.' Great finds include Adam Lambert (I read that he has been asked by Brian May to go out and sing with Queen) and Leona Lewis who often astounds me. At this years X Factor final, she came on and sang Johnny Cash out of Nine Inch Nails' 'Hurt'. It was so out of place. Everyone had been leaping up and down and screaming - and she came on and just made the whole of Wembley Arena fall into depressed hush. It was brilliant. As for Annie Lennox on Lady Gaga saying "Obviously she's someone who really is... I would say probably a bit compulsive about the dressing up thing and all of that. The only thing for me is I'm not quite sure what it all means at the end of the day, other than it just being extraordinarily startling." Well, I went to the Annie Lennox exhibition at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London at the beginning of December. It featured Annie's music, art, books of lyrics and an endless array of costumes that certainly startled me. The black leather suit reminded me of many happy days - but I won't get there" :~) However, Annie criticising Gaga for dressing up? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. Love to all Anita xx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:03:05 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Blue/Court and Spark live at Dizzy's DVD I have been delighted to receive my copy of Robin abd the Mutts at Dizzy's and watched the whole thing last night. Having seen hundreds of folk cover Joni's music over the last 40 years, I have never held back here on JMDL for my admiration for Dave and Robin's interpretations of Joni's music. There is just one word for this dvd. The word is staggering. It's just a staggering achievement. When 'Down To You' comes up as the next track on the DVD, you think 'how on earth are they going to do this?' And they do. I have so many questions. How does Robin manage to sing the whole of those two albums and not hit a bum note? How does she find the space in herself to sing so many of those complex words with such great heart? How does she find the emotional resilience to go through the whole of those two albums? I don't know. So it's not TOO much of a sychophantic rant, I do feel a couple of the arrangements on the 'Blue' section don't make quite it for me. 'River' is brilliantly played, a jazz arrangement that really does show the expertise of Barnaby Finch - but the chord structures somehow lacks the bleakness of Joni's original. But if the worst thing I can find is that it's played TOO well in parts, and not quite sparce enough, well, that's not a bad criticism. And I know that Joni herself would rather have interpretations of her music, rather than copies of her, so I imagine Joni would approve of 'River'. One of the 'Blue' arrangements that I DO like and find most interesting is 'The Last Time I Saw Richard' which brings something very new. The agony and angst is present, but Robin's interpretation of the song brings a more robust edge that gives a different slant to the song. Dave's arrangement is both sensitive, yet gets the band driving along in a most appropriate way. The 'Court and Spark' section is, as I have alreday said, staggering. I have mentioned 'Down to you' specifically, but to hear the whole of 'C&S' played in it's entirety and played and sung so brilliantly has blown me away. I never thought I'd see it in my lifetime. My absolute favourite has to be the 'Trouble Child/Twisted' section. Although Joni may have had Tom Scott for 'Court and Spark' she didn't yet have Wayne Shorter. Barry Cahill shows what Wayne might have been able to add to this track had he been around. Cahill's playing is just so brilliant on this track - so sensitive and on the money. The vocals (backing and lead) are just great and the band grooves along nicely. When they hit 'Twisted' they really let loose and it' s at this point they sound free to let rip and, I have to say it, leave the LA Express in the shade. I wonder if Max Bennett feels that way? He would know. And there's no doubt that Robin leaves Joni well behind in this section. She is SO able in this section that I reckon Joni would love her. Robin's jazz singing feels so comfortable and there is an ease that belies, I'm sure, the hours of practise and effort, it must take to sound that cool. I am so proud to know that these consummate musicians are people not only that I 'talk' with on this list, but have had the privilege of meeting. For an old Joni fan like me, to have some folk out there performing the music that I have known and loved for so long means that I have received one of the best Christmas presents I could ever have had. I would never have believed this would happen. Thank you so much for producing this wonderful DVD. Love Anita On 15 December 2011 19:45, wrote: > Thanks for doing this Dave - I ordered mine a couple of days ago and am > looking forward to it - and since I'm one of the few JMDLer's that have > seen you live at Dizzy's I can even imagine myself at the venue! > > Can't wait - my Christmas present to myself. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:07:55 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention I'm not sure if I would hear much new music at all if it weren't for my kids (mostly Matt, who likes to check out his new finds on me) and for the people here and on Facebook who mention what they're listening to. I've given up listening to radio, since it's hard to find a station that's not playing Top 40 pop tunes that mostly don't sound at all musical to me. I know I'm a geezer when I think that the pop music when I was young was different. There was a lot of crap, it's true, but there was some good stuff too, and maybe it only seems good to me because I heard it when I was a kid and that's the stuff that tends to stick in the long run. But there were, IMO, more original acts then than there are now, and more variety. I have to agree with Gerard that there's just so much booty-and-boob-thrusting and so much crotch-grabbing and it's all a big cliche and it cheapens things. It really does mostly sound and look alike and I don't think it's just me being the typical geezer stuck in the past. I hate to admit that I do find Lady Gaga interesting. I very much doubt I'd buy any of her CDs and a lot of her music sounds very much like other people's music, but you really should watch some of her videos, since many of them are made like movies. She has a good voice and can play the piano very well and I like her anti-bullying message, but her music? Meh, not so much. I like Adele OK but, after listening to an entire album at once, got a bit tired of her sound. Love, love, love Fleet Foxes. As far as the various "star search" types of shows, I resisted American Idol for years when it first came on, then started watching it a few years ago, and found it amusing, but gave up last year after Simon left. Sarah and I started watching The X Factor, but also gave up on that, because I found many of the performers annoying, (if I have to hear one more teen sobbing, "This is what I've waited my WHOLE LIFE for!" I think I will vomit. But more annoying than that were the hosts/sponsors. I'm sick of Simon Cowell and wish he'd just fade into the shadows and sit on his heap of money, which will no doubt simply grow larger whether he tries or not. As well, seeing the ridiculously HUGE homes they (apparently) live in just underlined for me that Joni is SO right when she talks about what a cesspool the industry is - at least the starmaker machinery side of it. These people are making HUGE amounts of money, mostly off of others (in SC's case, that is - I don't understand how either Paul Abdul or that chick from the Pussycat Dolls managed to amass such a fortune, based on their pathetic output, and yet this is exactly the kind of pap that's being shoved down listeners throats and apparently lots of people must love it.) I don't know enough about the other guy, who is a producer of some kind, but he seems to have a bit more integrity than SC. Enough of my rant. Someone else can go now! >________________________________ > From: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" >To: gerard mclaughlin >Cc: Randy Remote ; Joni >Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 8:30:42 AM >Subject: Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention > >I'm not buying much of this argument; there's always been a "Ted Mack's >Amateur Hour", "Star Search", you name it. None of today's BIG stars have >come from these shows and I don't see anything changing anytime soon in >that regard. The year that Joni put out Clouds, the #1 song of the year >was "Sugar, Sugar" by The Archies (who didn't really even exist). Pop/Top >40/Hit radio has always been around. Obviously the business has changed in >50 years and I'm not denying that - then again, what business HASN'T >changed in the last 50 years? 2011 was another stellar year for >outstanding music, for new artists who are establishing themselves as more >than flukes (Bon Iver, Fleet Foxes, Feist, Adele), established artists >(The Black Keys, Wilco, The Decemberists, Ryan Adams, Lucinda Williams) >and even Joni's generation who came out with some of the finest work of >their careers (Paul Simon, Tom Waits, Robbie Robertson). As I was out of >the country most of the year I wasn't able to partake of as much music as >I wanted to so I wasn't able to 'discover' a lot of new artists. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:31:50 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Subject: New Judy Collins Book w/Joni content Happy New Year, y'all. Don't know if this has been mentioned before but Judy Collins has just released an autobiography (Judy Collins, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes). It has a couple of pix with Joni (one, of Judy & Joni at Joni's Laurel Canyon cabin is really nice) and, obviously, some mentions of Joni & lots of others from that time of Judy's life (including Stephen Stills, or course). I was never a huge Judy Collins fan but I recently heard an interview with her on the radio (remember radios?) and it made me ask for the book for Christmas (thanks, Ro). I've just started on it but, judging by what I've read so far, I think Judy is a better (book) writer than I had expected. Some very nice things and I really like her style. Example: "With the passage of time, I am able to talk about circles that have been completed and old friends with whom I have reconnected. Many have died, each spiriting away a unique impression of me that no one else will ever have, each leaving a ghost of himself behind in my memory." Great stuff, IMHO. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:57:55 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Annie Lennox Joni mention Annie Lennox has spoken out against The X Factor, calling it a 'factory'. The Eurythmics singer said that the show would never produce an artist that was a poet or political commentator. In the interview with Absolute Radio, she said: "You wouldn't find a Joni Mitchell on X Factor, that's not the place. X Factor is a specific thing for people that want to go through that process, it's a factory, you know, and it's owned and stitched-up by puppet masters." In the same interview Lennox spoke of her admiration for Adele, saying the 'Someone Like You' singer "moves me". She also said it was unfair to compare Adele to Lady Gaga. "It's not fair to compare one artist to another because they all come with their own sort of elements to the picnic, you know," she explained. "Adele brings a beautiful voice that's resonant, it's heartfelt, it's nuanced." She added that Lady Gaga was "just pop". "I think she has an extraordinary voice and I think 'Ooh, I wouldn't want to be Lady Gaga', because I mean I just couldn't handle it," she said. "Obviously she's someone who really is... I would say probably a bit compulsive about the dressing up thing and all of that. The only thing for me is I'm not quite sure what it all means at the end of the day, other than it just being extraordinarily startling." - nme.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:18:33 +0000 From: gerard mclaughlin Subject: Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention I remember loving The Tourists and being quite enthralled with the singer who looked amazing . Thinking back she probably had much the same impact on me as Lady Gaga does today and the singer was of course Annie Lennox. She dressed up majorly throughout her career from the outset. We need think only of her Diva days. Her comment on Gaga's costume dramas doesn't sit too well with me either.As to Leona Lewis, there's no getting away from the fact that she has got what it takes and does it all with real star quality. There was a rumour at the time that she was already a star in the making and was put onto the tv show just to get her a ready made public. She was to replace Whitney I seem to recall so they sent her off to the USA where she made it big I'm told.She really is the exception to the rule as far as The X Factor goes but....but not really if what we hear is true. Anyway people love all these shows so obviously there's a place for them in our ever evolving world ! Variety is the spice of life after all. The thing is I was at a party recently and the TV was playing in a room in which I sat for about an hour chatting to folk and watching as I did so. I thought I was watching JLo the whole time but it turned out it was in fact a number of girls currently in vogue; They all looked the same, dressed the same and sounded the same.When someone started to name each of them I naturally had to take a closer look. Indeed they were all different girls but the only real diferrence was the size of their hips.Everything else was identical. I found that quite disturbing.I don't think pop has ever been so samey well not so much of the one thing. Thank gawd fr GAGA but she's getting boring already...I look forward to what's next...yeah yeah yeah. On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Anita G wrote: > I feel myself sitting so solidly on the fence when I say 'There have been > some great finds on talent shows along with some dross.' Great finds > include Adam Lambert (I read that he has been asked by Brian May to go out > and sing with Queen) and Leona Lewis who often astounds me. At this years X > Factor final, she came on and sang Johnny Cash out of Nine Inch Nails' > 'Hurt'. It was so out of place. Everyone had been leaping up and down and > screaming - and she came on and just made the whole of Wembley Arena fall > into depressed hush. It was brilliant. > > As for Annie Lennox on Lady Gaga saying "Obviously she's someone who really > is... > I would say probably a bit compulsive about the dressing up thing and all > of > that. The only thing for me is I'm not quite sure what it all means at the > end > of the day, other than it just being extraordinarily startling." > > Well, I went to the Annie Lennox exhibition at the Victoria and Albert > Museum in London at the beginning of December. It featured Annie's music, > art, books of lyrics and an endless array of costumes that certainly > startled me. The black leather suit reminded me of many happy days - but I > won't get there" :~) However, Annie criticising Gaga for dressing up? > Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. > Love to all > Anita xx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:44:56 +0000 From: gerard mclaughlin Subject: Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention Annie's view of the X Factor is sort of like what I take Joni's view of the music industry to be...all stitched up by puppetmasters.Someone should switch off the machine. It's like brain death. Adele is like long term memory on some sort of a loop and Gaga memory so short term it's more like the terrors really with nothing but "interference" in between and if I have to see another pair of perfect boobs busting thru the telly while some gorgeous black, latino or Asian teenage or twentysomething girl dances like Salome. Women of colour with no brains is what it seems all to be about these days...but with perfect "booty" .... I mean who are the men behind this stuff ?Then they prop Adele up and award her like she was some goddess.She's alright in an average sort of a way. It's a mess. Ooo, listen to me ! What the hell do I know but there you go...a response. Maybe some jonilistas will pipe in and we'll get a conversation going ? Then again...maybe not. On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Randy Remote wrote: > Annie Lennox has spoken out against The X Factor, calling it a 'factory'. > The > Eurythmics singer said that the show would never produce an artist that > was a > poet or political commentator. In the interview with Absolute Radio, she > said: > > "You wouldn't find a Joni Mitchell on X Factor, that's not the place. X > Factor > is a specific thing for people that want to go through that process, it's a > factory, you know, and it's owned and stitched-up by puppet masters." > In the same interview Lennox spoke of her admiration for Adele, saying the > 'Someone Like You' singer "moves me". She also said it was unfair to > compare > Adele to Lady Gaga. > "It's not fair to compare one artist to another because they all come with > their own sort of elements to the picnic, you know," she explained. "Adele > brings a beautiful voice that's resonant, it's heartfelt, it's nuanced." > She added that Lady Gaga was "just pop". "I think she has an extraordinary > voice and I think 'Ooh, I wouldn't want to be Lady Gaga', because I mean I > just couldn't handle it," she said. "Obviously she's someone who really > is... > I would say probably a bit compulsive about the dressing up thing and all > of > that. The only thing for me is I'm not quite sure what it all means at the > end > of the day, other than it just being extraordinarily startling." - nme.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:04:49 -0500 (EST) From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention, now Adele / Joni comparisons? I agree with Bob that Adele is the real deal. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more of a discussion of her on this list, unless it was all marked NJC and I just missed it. Her album is the one I kept going back to repeatedly this year. I think it struck a cord with a lot of people, probably for very similar reasons that Blue did so many years ago. I think a couple of Joni's strengths is her ability to convey melancholy and connect emotionally with her audience. I get a lot of that from Adele as well. My niece first turned me onto Adele when 19 came out, and she spoke about her in terms that reminded me of how we speak about Joni. I originally found 19 to be a little too laid back, but it grew on me with repeated listenings. I thought she did a great job of expanding her musical pallet on 21 (how can you not get up and shake your booty during Rumour Has It). If you haven't listened to 21 or only gave it one or two listens, I encourage you to give it some more time. Don't let the hype and commercial success turn you off, because I think this is a real gem of an album. Great voice, beautifully sung, heart-felt songs. In it's own way, it's as emotionally open as Blue was in it's day. I've seen Adele in concert twice now, and she clearly resonates with the audience. Hopefully her throat surgery won't have any negative impact on her voice and she continues to spread her wings musically. I have great hopes for her future releases. Jack In a message dated 12/29/2011 7:36:39 A.M. Central Standard Time, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com writes: I'm not buying much of this argument; there's always been a "Ted Mack's Amateur Hour", "Star Search", you name it. None of today's BIG stars have come from these shows and I don't see anything changing anytime soon in that regard. The year that Joni put out Clouds, the #1 song of the year was "Sugar, Sugar" by The Archies (who didn't really even exist). Pop/Top 40/Hit radio has always been around. Obviously the business has changed in 50 years and I'm not denying that - then again, what business HASN'T changed in the last 50 years? 2011 was another stellar year for outstanding music, for new artists who are establishing themselves as more than flukes (Bon Iver, Fleet Foxes, Feist, Adele), established artists (The Black Keys, Wilco, The Decemberists, Ryan Adams, Lucinda Williams) and even Joni's generation who came out with some of the finest work of their careers (Paul Simon, Tom Waits, Robbie Robertson). As I was out of the country most of the year I wasn't able to partake of as much music as I wanted to so I wasn't able to 'discover' a lot of new artists. Adele is the real deal - she's sold herself on her pipes and not her sexuality, though she is a beautiful woman in my opinion. Her music crosses over into many groups, hence the sales of 14 million or so. Much more than pop/dance/video music. Bob NP: The Black Keys, "Run Right Back" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 03:44:38 +0000 From: "Betsy Blue" Subject: Re: Annie Lennox Joni mention, etc I agree with Bob's whole message, especially: >Obviously the business has changed in 50 years and I'm not denying that - then again, what business HASN'T. changed in the last 50 years? 2011 was another stellar year for outstanding music, for new artists who are establishing themselves as more than flukes (Bon Iver, Fleet Foxes, Feist, Adele), established artists. (The Black Keys, Wilco, The Decemberists, Ryan Adams, Lucinda Williams) and even Joni's generation who came out with some of the finest work of their careers (Paul Simon, Tom Waits, Robbie Robertson). Lady Gaga is a real talent, too. Her acoustic Edge of Glory may appeal to the same people who found the piano version of Dog Eat Dog a revelation. I was also blown away by her recent duet with Tony Bennett. Annie Lennox is right that these contest shows can't churn out artists, of course. Joni doesn't have an "X-factor" like Jennifer Lopez or Madonna. Maybe being beautiful got her foot in the door, but she had a lot more than sex appeal on her side. The reverence fans have for her can be explained by her ability to compose and play original, evocative songs. Even though she was blessed with a big range, good pitch, and flexibility, she didn't become a great singer until after most people stopped buying her albums. Their loss! There is very little opportunity now for artists to develop a catalog like Joni's, assuming there anyone with a comparable talent and work ethic exists. Honestly, I feel like it makes The Beatles and U2 seem weak. We may start grumbling when a new album doesn't come out every few years, but there are dozens of exceptional (and timeless) songs already out there. Betsy NP Graceland ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #380 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe