From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #338 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, November 24 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 338 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: joni pez? ["Mark" ] Re: Posts dropping off [Ken ] Re: Song for Sharon [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2011 #557 [Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com] Re: joni pez? [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni pez? [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL digest problems [raven@igc.org] Re: How Do You Stop not written by Joni Mitchell [David Marine ] Re: joni [gerard mclaughlin ] Re: The State of the JMDL [Lori Fye ] Re: joni pez? [Moni Kellermann ] joni pez? [Marianne Rizzo ] Re: Song for Sharon [Mags ] Re: JMDL Digest V2011 #557 [Bob Muller ] Posts Have Dropped Off [Sharon Watkins ] Re: How Do You Stop not written by Joni Mitchell [CoyoteRick ] Re: Song for Sharon [Mags ] Re: joni pez? [Lori Fye ] RE: Song for Sharon [Susan Tierney McNamara ] The State of the JMDL [Les Irvin ] Re: Posts Have Dropped Off [Bob Muller ] Re: Song for Sharon ["Betsy Blue" ] Re: Song for Sharon ["Mark" ] Re: Posts have dropped off [Catherine McKay ] Re: How Do You Stop not written by Joni Mitchell [Kathy Johnson ] Re: joni pez? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Song for Sharon [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni pez? [Bob Muller ] Re: Song for Sharon ["johnnybgoode@lineone.net" ] Re: joni pez? [Lori Fye ] Song for Sharon [Sharon Watkins ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:15:15 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: joni pez? Believe it or not (and those of you who have read my posts long enough do believe it, I'm sure) I have a Virginia Woolf refrigerator magnet. And my friend Melanie gave me a VW finger puppet with a magnet in the back of it to put on the fridge along side of it. (Melanie has a Frida Kahlo finger puppet of the same kind. Strangely enough, Virginia and Frida look astonishingly alike as finger puppets.) But a Joni Pez dispenser......why not? Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Marianne Rizzo Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 7:18 AM To: joni list Subject: joni pez? I went to the mall (hate to shop) the other day with my two nieces, Bella and Connie (who are now 11!) (yesterday the child came out to wonder) While browsing at different stores. . . they would see a beetle blanket and say, "Aunt Mar, LOOK. . a beetle blanket" . . or "LOOK. . .. a pac man blanket." and when they turned their head, I would say, "hey, a joni blanket!" and they would quickly turn to see . . . and I would say, "just kidding." and then we were looking at calendars. . justin bieber and stuff. . and then I said, "LOOK a joni mitchell calendar!" they turn their heads quickly. . "Hey, a Joni Mitchell Monopoly game!" heh heh . . (I have been talking about joni mitchell all of their lives) so everything is a possibility for a joni mitchell thing. how about a joni mitchell pez? (well . . . they should have rock and roll pez) other ideas? XOXO Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:01:35 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Subject: Re: Posts dropping off I think you're bound to have fewer posts, over time, on a site where the "object of our affection" is no longer performing or releasing new material. Add to that the fact that the majority of JMDL members have "been there, done that" for many years and you're bound to get a diminishing rate of participation. I mean, there's only so much we can comment on after a while that has not been discussed before (sometimes multiple times). I'm not complaining, mind you; it's just a fact of life. I still read the digest but don't post new comments as often as I used to. Then again, I was never a daily contributor to begin with. But, I'm still here and love you all. (Still waiting for the next east coast JoniFest.) Kenny B Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:26:11 +0000 From: gerard mclaughlin Subject: Re: Posts have dropped off Probably not. I am imagining we are all subconsciously grieving no album from Joni and gone quiet as a result. It would be time for something new, something wonderful but it's not happening and might never again. That could explain the drop off. Or I could be havering which wouldn't be such a big surprise. At least it's a post. The silence is deafening though.... On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:23 AM, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Have we ever had a 2 week period with so few posts? > > Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:07:22 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Song for Sharon One thing I remember hearing or reading (interviews or whatever) is that Joni kept telling herself, "I can get out of this." In other words, if I marry this guy (to give my child a father, or whatever other reasons) and it doesn't work out, then I can always divorce him. So, while I think there was some desperation going on, she was also thinking it through in various scenarios. I think a few of us have made the mistake of not paying attention to our gut instinct telling us to run for the hills and have talked ourselves into marriages or other similar relationships and regretted it later. >________________________________ > From: Mags >To: Betsy Blue ; Susan Tierney McNamara ; Catherine McKay ; Bob Muller ; "joni@smoe.org" ; Mary Morris >Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 5:26:55 PM >Subject: Re: Song for Sharon > > >Betsy wrote: > >It has always struck me how traditional Joni's views are for a woman who was always more prominent than her partners. (I hear it in HOSL, Snakes&Ladders, etc.) She must have known this was the case even with Chuck, although that marriage was clearly a case of postpartum psychosis. And she probably could have settled down and had kids at any point in her late 20s/early 30s after achieving some financial security, but she chose not to. > > > > > > > > and now me: > > >First and foremost, Betsy, please don't take this as a personal attack when I say that I think the term "postpartum psychosis is a bit harsh. Granted, there's no doubt that Joni felt rivers of blue throughout her pregnancy and as she went through the motions signing all the papers in the family name. Feelings over such a loss tend to linger throughout an entire life time, like a whisper. As well, I'd argue against the notion of choice until the cows come home. Sometimes things just happen to us. > > >And one last thing, many people have been blind sided consequently married the WRONG person. It happens and there are plenty of regrets coyote, and yet, no longer a need to explain. Freedom is a beautiful thing, with happiness as just desserts. > > >Mags ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:06:40 -0500 From: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2011 #557 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:28:28 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Song for Sharon I never thought of that but it certainly could be the case. The song is of course purely autobiographical. By the same token she could simply be referring to Sharon's green farmland as opposed to Joni's more metropolitan and hurried lifestyle at the time. Bob ========================================= Bob - Now don't you think that be a great question to ask Sharon on your follow up conversation that was forthcoming sometime in the future (nudge ...nudge......nudge) : - ) - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately.) - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:24:52 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni pez? But of course there is! How could I forget? >________________________________ > From: Moni Kellermann >To: Catherine McKay >Cc: Marianne Rizzo ; joni list >Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 11:14:26 AM >Subject: Re: joni pez? > >Well, there is the Playmobil Joni: > >http://playmoni.tumblr.com/post/6909438279/playmo-joni-mitchell-live-bbc-1970-pink-dress > > >(play)moni k. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 07:55:10 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni pez? You're right. They have pez everything. I thought they did have rock'n'roll pez. I don't collect things, because I hate the clutter - it just means you have to dust, and I hate dusting. How about a Joni bobblehead? (I HATE bobbleheads, so I'd prefer it never happen but, they also seem to have bobblehead everything.) (It may sound like I do, but I don't hate everything.) When I was a kid, I loved paper dolls and would make my own clothes for them along with what came in the package. That way, you could make 'em wear whatever you wanted. I'd love to see a Joni paper doll, with all her outfits from various tours (pink dress Joni, cover-of-FTR Joni, all the Issey Miyake stuff (http://www.isseymiyake.com/isseymiyake_women/). I do love Joni's fashion sense. Maybe I'll make my own Joni paper-doll... I saw a Jesus paper doll the other day. You could dress him in surfer-guy clothing and so on. Now that you mention calendars, I'm surprised there isn't a Joni calendar. There are calendars of so many things that are really very esoteric and weird that you'd think only two people in the world would want (Outhouses? WTF?). Once again, maybe we can make our own Joni calendars. There are calendar templates on every document program that exists and all you'd need to do is to drag-and-drop photos for every month. >________________________________ > From: Marianne Rizzo >To: joni list >Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:18:50 AM >Subject: joni pez? > >... >and then we were looking at calendars. . justin bieber and stuff. . and then >I said, "LOOK a joni mitchell calendar!" > they turn their heads quickly. . >"Hey, a Joni Mitchell Monopoly game!" > >heh heh . . (I have been talking about joni mitchell all of their lives) > >so everything is a possibility for a joni mitchell thing. > >how about a joni mitchell pez? >(well . . . they should have rock and roll pez) > > >other ideas? >XOXO >Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:42:24 -0800 From: raven@igc.org Subject: Re: JMDL digest problems Michael Flaherty wrote: > It would be possible to create two lists, one being a "Joni Only". > I'm not sure that that would be more problematic than remembering > the NJC, but I could be wrong. I have seen many "Only" lists used on YahooGroups before, they only require the moderator(s) of the primary list to move any "Only" content to the "Only" sub-list, resulting in a (small?) delay before the "Only" list is updated. > It's a very reliable server, albeit with no frills--which > is probably why it's reliable. Yes, generally extremely reliable. YahooGroups assumes we will use their "full HTML" version, which has the potential for several unnecessary problems, I would ask that we use their "text-only" list option. - -- Johnny Raven ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:40:30 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: Re: How Do You Stop not written by Joni Mitchell Hey List, I've always been amazed by Joni's decision to include a Dan Hartman cover on "Turbulent Indigo." Dan Hartman wrote many songs but some of his biggest hits were disco classics, including "Love Sensation," a seminal anthem in gay and black dance clubs. The theme of "How Do You Stop" evokes for me a particular pathos (especially as it is followed on the album by "Sex Kills"), since Dan Hartman died of AIDS in the spring of 1994, the same year the album was released. Best. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:37:47 -0800 From: "gene" Subject: Re: The State of the JMDL Hello Lori, Santa Rosa to Tioga, North Dakota-----Holly Moses!!!!!! Happy Thanksgiving, gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: "Joni List" Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 2:34 PM Subject: Re: The State of the JMDL > "Oh, I wish I had a server I could host JMDL on ..." > > Lori > Tioga, ND ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:03:47 +0000 From: gerard mclaughlin Subject: Re: joni I'll second that. Big thanks for a wonderful woman of heart and mind ! On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Marianne Rizzo wrote: > Giving thanks this thanksgiving week for joni > > and for the jmdl. . . (YOU. And our community) > > > > all this understated > > I've looked at clouds from both sides now > > > > thank you > JOni you have given so much > > > > Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:34:58 -0600 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: The State of the JMDL "Oh, I wish I had a server I could host JMDL on ..." Lori Tioga, ND ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:14:26 +0100 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: joni pez? Well, there is the Playmobil Joni: http://playmoni.tumblr.com/post/6909438279/playmo-joni-mitchell-live-bbc-1970-pink-dress (play)moni k. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:18:50 -0500 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: joni pez? I went to the mall (hate to shop) the other day with my two nieces, Bella and Connie (who are now 11!) (yesterday the child came out to wonder) While browsing at different stores. . . they would see a beetle blanket and say, "Aunt Mar, LOOK. . a beetle blanket" . . or "LOOK. . .. a pac man blanket." and when they turned their head, I would say, "hey, a joni blanket!" and they would quickly turn to see . . . and I would say, "just kidding." and then we were looking at calendars. . justin bieber and stuff. . and then I said, "LOOK a joni mitchell calendar!" they turn their heads quickly. . "Hey, a Joni Mitchell Monopoly game!" heh heh . . (I have been talking about joni mitchell all of their lives) so everything is a possibility for a joni mitchell thing. how about a joni mitchell pez? (well . . . they should have rock and roll pez) other ideas? XOXO Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:26:55 -0800 (PST) From: Mags Subject: Re: Song for Sharon Betsy wrote: It has always struck me how traditional Joni's views are for a woman who was always more prominent than her partners. (I hear it in HOSL, Snakes&Ladders, etc.) She must have known this was the case even with Chuck, although that marriage was clearly a case of postpartum psychosis. And she probably could have settled down and had kids at any point in her late 20s/early 30s after achieving some financial security, but she chose not to. and now me: First and foremost, Betsy, please don't take this as a personal attack when I say that I think the term "postpartum psychosis is a bit harsh. Granted, there's no doubt that Joni felt rivers of blue throughout her pregnancy and as she went through the motions signing all the papers in the family name. Feelings over such a loss tend to linger throughout an entire life time, like a whisper. As well, I'd argue against the notion of choice until the cows come home. Sometimes things just happen to us. And one last thing, many people have been blind sided consequently married the WRONG person. It happens and there are plenty of regrets coyote, and yet, no longer a need to explain. Freedom is a beautiful thing, with happiness as just desserts. Mags ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:15:16 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2011 #557 I feel the nudge all the way on this side of the world, Stewart. I have been lax and failed to follow through on that promise. I still have those emails in my inbox, old as they are. Really want to finish what I started on that front so thanks for expediting me. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:14:10 -0600 From: Sharon Watkins Subject: Posts Have Dropped Off Regarding Joni's lack of new music, hope springs eternal. I know Joni has health challenges and that her voice changes possibly make singing difficult. But aside from being a stellar singer and poet, she is a magnificent composer of music. If singing is indeed a challenge for her, I keep hoping she will give us an album of instrumental music. "One Week Last Summer" from Shine is sublime. If Joni no longer sings, I would take for her magical melodies anytime. I wish we had a way to send fan mail to encourage her, but I don't even think there's a way to do that. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Sharon Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 02:48:02 -0700 From: CoyoteRick Subject: Re: How Do You Stop not written by Joni Mitchell And we cannot ever forget Vertigo/Relight My Fire. I've always been curious to know if Dan and Joni were friends. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 23, 2011, at 1:40 AM, David Marine wrote: > Hey List, > > I've always been amazed by Joni's decision to include a Dan Hartman cover on "Turbulent Indigo." Dan Hartman wrote many songs but some of his biggest hits were disco classics, including "Love Sensation," a seminal anthem in gay and black dance clubs. The theme of "How Do You Stop" evokes for me a particular pathos (especially as it is followed on the album by "Sex Kills"), since Dan Hartman died of AIDS in the spring of 1994, the same year the album was released. > > Best. > > David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:38:21 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Song for Sharon I also kinda feel like I have to clarify something in that last statement because maybe it came off sounding as if I thought Chuck was a bad guy. I'm quite sure he's a decent guy and was then, but maybe he wasn't such a great choice for Joni. It doesn't seem to me that she was in love with him, and that them being together for long wasn't going to happen and that she married him to help herself out of a jam and maybe to save face in front of her parents (although I'm not sure they even knew she had had a baby until the rest of the world did), and that she maybe could have thought that through a bit better. But they were both young and people make mistakes. And the world keeps turning, and life is for learning. All water under the bridge by now. >________________________________ > From: Catherine McKay >To: Mags ; Betsy Blue ; Susan Tierney McNamara ; Bob Muller ; "joni@smoe.org" ; Mary Morris >Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 7:07:22 PM >Subject: Re: Song for Sharon > > >One thing I remember hearing or reading (interviews or whatever) is that Joni kept telling herself, "I can get out of this." In other words, if I marry this guy (to give my child a father, or whatever other reasons) and it doesn't work out, then I can always divorce him. So, while I think there was some desperation going on, she was also thinking it through in various scenarios. I think a few of us have made the mistake of not paying attention to our gut instinct telling us to run for the hills and have talked ourselves into marriages or other similar relationships and regretted it later. > > > > >>________________________________ >> From: Mags >>To: Betsy Blue ; Susan Tierney McNamara ; Catherine McKay ; Bob Muller ; "joni@smoe.org" ; Mary Morris >>Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 5:26:55 PM >>Subject: Re: Song for Sharon >> >> >>Betsy wrote: >> >>It has always struck me how traditional Joni's views are for a woman who was always more prominent than her partners. (I hear it in HOSL, Snakes&Ladders, etc.) She must have known this was the case even with Chuck, although that marriage was clearly a case of postpartum psychosis. And she probably could have settled down and had kids at any point in her late 20s/early 30s after achieving some financial security, but she chose not to. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> and now me: >> >> >>First and foremost, Betsy, please don't take this as a personal attack when I say that I think the term "postpartum psychosis is a bit harsh. Granted, there's no doubt that Joni felt rivers of blue throughout her pregnancy and as she went through the motions signing all the papers in the family name. Feelings over such a loss tend to linger throughout an entire life time, like a whisper. As well, I'd argue against the notion of choice until the cows come home. Sometimes things just happen to us. >> >> >>And one last thing, many people have been blind sided consequently married the WRONG person. It happens and there are plenty of regrets coyote, and yet, no longer a need to explain. Freedom is a beautiful thing, with happiness as just desserts. >> >> >>Mags ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:52:29 -0800 (PST) From: Mags Subject: Re: Song for Sharon I don't think that Chuck was a bad guy either, and you said it sister...he may not have been good for her. End of statement. Who knows. Water under the bridge for sure and yet we keep on discussing it ;--) As far as Joni giving up her child in 1965 and not telling her parents, it was the thing to do, a time for secrets, a time to try and smooth things over so that the new family could carry on with their new little one. Glad that things have evolved since then :0 and p.s. I don't pretend to know what it was like for Joni, whatsoever; this subject just happens to be one of my favs for all the points mentioned, and beyond. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:08:44 -0600 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: joni pez? A Joni Pez would be cool, but I have a feeling that, instead of dispensing little rectangular candies, it would "inhale" little cigarette-shaped candies. ; ) Lori Tioga, ND ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:43:01 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Song for Sharon While reading this thread I started thinking about "Barangrill" and the idea of the fork in the road that Joni took all those years ago when she chose her career over a regular life. In this "conversation over tuning" she calls this song "looking for gurus" ... I love it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNX9AJaokNI I think the decision she made to put Kelly up for adoption and leave Chuck to embrace a music career dogged her when the going got tough. There are several places in Hejira where she talks about the spiritual side of acceptance, but then also regret at what she has lost ... it's a very deep place of letting go ... and I think there is a lot of loss in the phrase ... "I'll walk green pastures by and by" ... basically saying someday I'll accept the choices I made, but right now I can't ... "I've got this apple of temptation and a diamond snake around my arm" ... you are good, I'm not really good because I made different choices ... it would be interesting to look at all the songs that have this theme of regret and loss against the songs that show courage and brilliance ... Catherine, I also love the cowboy connection, that's definitely a thread in the songs, too. Bob mentioned the Gene Autry concert last week and she had a lot of love for those guys as she discussed in her other "conversations over tuning" ... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 7:38 PM To: Bob Muller; Betsy Blue; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Song for Sharon I hadn't thought of it either, but it wouldn't surprise me that there might be another meaning. Joni does that a lot. For some reason, though, when I hear about "walking green pastures," it reminds me of someone dying. It also reminds me of Roy Rogers and Dale Evans ("Happy trails to you".) Maybe I'm thinking of the hymn, "The sweet by-and-by." It seems like the kind of song Joni might have heard on the radio as a child (maybe played just before the sign-off prayer?) I have no idea where I get that from, but it just comes into my head when I hear that particular verse of "Song for Sharon." >________________________________ > From: Bob Muller >To: Betsy Blue ; "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 6:28:28 PM >Subject: Re: Song for Sharon > >for Sharon? > > >I never thought of that but it certainly could be the case. >The song is of course purely autobiographical. By the same token she could >simply be referring to Sharon's green farmland as opposed to Joni's more >metropolitan and hurried lifestyle at the time. > >Bob > >Conference Call by The Bickering Coworkers> This sounds like a scream, I have >to hear it! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:28:55 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: The State of the JMDL Joniphiles - Welcome to the ever-so-occasional State of the JMDL Meeting. Please silence your cell phones. As the digest people know, we have been having ongoing problems with the list via our long-time provider Smoe. Smoe is free, but it also has an absentee landlord and therefore is "as is". The problems will most likely never be resolved. The list uses the "Majordomo" software system, written 17+ years ago (ancient in computer terms...) and pretty much abandoned by its creators in favor of other systems like YahooGroups. Do we need to switch to another provider? Here are 3 options as I see them: 1) Have a volunteer step forward who is willing/able to install the Majordomo software on their own server and host the list for free. 2) Switch to YahooGroups for free. Free, BUT there will NO LONGER BE A "JONI-ONLY" option as Yahoo offers no way to do this (unless someone has information I don't). 3) Find another Majordomo system to host. My research indicates a $40+/- monthly fee for this. Yikes. The current list census is as follows: 110 members of "Live" Joni 652 members of Joni-digest 44 members of Only-Joni 218 members of Only-Joni digest So, 25% of the current members - the "only" people - will be inconvenienced by switching to YahooGroups. On the other hand, most email systems (Outlook, Windows Mail, Gmail, Hotmail, etc, etc...) offer a filtering option in which one can send single NJC messages directly to the trash. Still, the Only-Joni Digest people (21% of our population) are left without a real solution. There is no easy answer to the current problem if you are among the 21%. I'll appreciate your thoughtful discussion/ideas (public and/or private) in the next week or so and will make a decision at that point. Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:06:38 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Posts Have Dropped Off Sharon, wouldn't that be cool? I also love that track and thought it had a couple of interesting musical twists and turns. A great start to the album and I could easily groove on a whole album of that. Of course Joni's WORDS are part and parcel of the pleasure I derive from her work BUT if all she's going to focus on is bitter and negative stuff I can do without them. (Joni, if you think Americans are crazy with the cell phones and driving crazy you need to spend some time in BEIJING to get some perspective). Bob NP: The Black Keys, "Howling For You" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:19:07 +0000 From: "Betsy Blue" Subject: Re: Song for Sharon Sue said "I started thinking about "Barangrill" and the idea of the fork in the road that Joni took all those years ago when she chose her career over a regular life." It has always struck me how traditional Joni's views are for a woman who was always more prominent than her partners. (I hear it in HOSL, Snakes&Ladders, etc.) She must have known this was the case even with Chuck, although that marriage was clearly a case of postpartum psychosis. And she probably could have settled down and had kids at any point in her late 20s/early 30s after achieving some financial security, but she chose not to. I think she had a deep longing to be the daughter who could please her mother, but that's just not how she was created, and she can't suppress the artist-pioneer inside of her. This is all summed up in one line: Mama's nylons underneath my cowgirl jeans. Betsy NP If I Could, Seal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:56:10 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Song for Sharon For some reason, somewhere in back of my cobweb infested head I have always made some connection to the 23rd Psalm. 'He maketh me to lie down in green pastures'. I always thought that if there is that connection, it is purely superficial. Just borrowing from the Bible like countless other writers have done. But now that somebody has mentioned the biblical references in 'apple of temptation and a diamond snake around my arm', I am beginning to wonder. I have fallen and been cast out but I'll get back to Eden (the garden) some day? The song starts out in NYC and ends with green pastures. The two women's lives are very different but Joni sees some similarity. Sharon still makes music and sings for an audience of friends and family. Joni finds time for solitude and reflection away from the limelight from time to time, . Mark in a very wet Seattle (typical November weather) - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:37 PM To: Bob Muller ; Betsy Blue ; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Song for Sharon I hadn't thought of it either, but it wouldn't surprise me that there might be another meaning. Joni does that a lot. For some reason, though, when I hear about "walking green pastures," it reminds me of someone dying. It also reminds me of Roy Rogers and Dale Evans ("Happy trails to you".) Maybe I'm thinking of the hymn, "The sweet by-and-by." It seems like the kind of song Joni might have heard on the radio as a child (maybe played just before the sign-off prayer?) I have no idea where I get that from, but it just comes into my head when I hear that particular verse of "Song for Sharon." >________________________________ > From: Bob Muller >To: Betsy Blue ; "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 6:28:28 PM >Subject: Re: Song for Sharon > >Song >for Sharon? > > >I never thought of that but it certainly could be the case. >The song is of course purely autobiographical. By the same token she could >simply be referring to Sharon's green farmland as opposed to Joni's more >metropolitan and hurried lifestyle at the time. > >Bob > >Conference Call by The Bickering Coworkers> This sounds like a scream, I >have >to hear it! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:44:06 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Posts have dropped off It may depend on whether you're Joni-only or on the everything list. There's more njc than jc. Also, I think with Muller being in China, it's down to the rest of us to raise an issue if things seem too quiet. Weekends are definitely very quiet around here, whereas previously there would be some traffic on weekends. >________________________________ > From: gerard mclaughlin >To: Jim L'Hommedieu >Cc: JMDL >Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:26:11 PM >Subject: Re: Posts have dropped off > >Probably not. I am imagining we are all subconsciously grieving no album >from Joni and gone quiet as a result. It would be time for something new, >something wonderful but it's not happening and might never again. That >could explain the drop off. Or I could be havering which wouldn't be such a >big surprise. At least it's a post. The silence is deafening though.... > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:23 AM, Jim L'Hommedieu > wrote: > >> Have we ever had a 2 week period with so few posts? >> >> Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:09:18 -0600 From: Kathy Johnson Subject: Re: How Do You Stop not written by Joni Mitchell On 2011-11-21, at 6:17 PM, Bob Muller wrote: > Hi Kate - Yvette in English is what she wrote with Crosby, I'm sure you knew that. Ha!! SURE I knew that!! Once upon a time. My memory ... I don't know what to blame these brain farts on... but anyway, it is always so nice to be able to come to this list and get straightened out! Thank you kindly for doing it so kindly. > the addition of Seal gives it a nice touch. Their voices are a great blend. The collaboration on his record ("If I Could") is better still. Yes, I love it. Wish I could find a video of the two of them singing it. One day ... ? And now, back to the chaos. A huge machine is digging a hole for a septic tank behind the house. It is parked right on part of my flowerbed. Boo hoo. But ... no more sewage/lagoon worries this winter for my taller half, so that will be a relief. A $5000 (or more) relief. I had better get out of my pj's and get started on the meatloaf I'm making for lunch for those hungry, cold men. This is one time I'm glad to be an unpaid domestic servant as opposed to a construction worker or the (unpaid) man of the house, i.e. maintenance and repair man. Do I digress? Yes indeedy. X's and O's to all, Kate http://goldengrainfarm.blogspot.com (my latest blog entry reveals a phone scam going around these parts; probably old hat to you net-savvy folks, but I have a lot of my mother's friends reading my blog and they are innocents, especially when it comes to computers. They've no confidence and would likely fall for the scam hook, line and sinker) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:28:52 -0800 From: Mary Morris Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2011 #552 Betsy, I don't know if "green pastures, by & by" refers to Kelly Dale or just to the hopefulness that longing & melancholia can sometimes bring if you work your way through it. HEJIRA always felt like such longing & sensuality to me - that constant journey of the road - of a person on a journey, figuratively & literally. I love Joni as an artist. I don't care if she's a bitch to some. "Who cares?" She puts it all down on the strings or the page. What Bob Dylan was to male folk/rock singers ( changing the landscape ) I think Joni was that for female singers. That being said - I want to go genderless & put them both in the same class. It's just that Joni has THAT VOICE ! as well as THAT TALENT ! It is currently raining steadily up here in the NW - will rain for 3 days & nights - a bottle of rhine wine & Joni Mitchell have me considering again what a gifted artist she is & how thankful I am to have her in the back of my head like a philosophical soundtrack all these many years. The winter is so tough up here, for a California girl, that I am considering taking dulcimer lessons in that big bad city of Seattle. I bought that instrument many years ago because I loved Joni's music. I never could learn the guitar & only a little of piano. I need to learn to produce some personal music this winter so I can share it later with people I don't even know yet. There, that is my Joni post until Thanksgiving Day. NP: The Joni Mitchell Youtube mix ( 100 videos version ) GREETINGS FROM THE TRIPLE M Down a gravel road, where the barb wire meets the sky. MARY M. MORRIS > Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:48:27 -0500 > From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #552 > > > JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 22 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 552 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Song for Sharon ["Betsy Blue" ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:48:20 +0000 > From: "Betsy Blue" > Subject: Song for Sharon > > Does anyone else think Joni was referring to her daughter at the end of Song for Sharon? > > Sharon you've got a husbandb, > b*And a family and a farmb, > b*I've got the apple of temptationb, > b*And a diamond snake around my armb, > b*But you still have your musicb, > b*And I've still got my eyes on the land and the skyb, > b*You sing for your friends and your familyb, > b*I'll walk green pastures by and by > > Doesn't Kelly Dale basically mean "green pasture"? I don't necessarily think this is a conscious reference like in Chinese Cafe, but it seems like the rhyme scheme would allow any number of terms in that spot. > > Betsy > NP Unproductive Conference Call by The Bickering Coworkers > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2011 #552 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:39:48 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni pez? I want the pornographic watch that the priest in the airport bar had! >________________________________ > From: Bob Muller >To: Marianne Rizzo ; joni list >Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 7:12:07 PM >Subject: Re: joni pez? > >Hi Marianne - > >If there WAS a Joni pez, rest assured that Gary Zack would >have a case of them (and still be on his feet). >My first thought was a >bobblehead, but Catherine mentioned that. It reminded me of when I was in >Shanghai two weeks ago, there was a merchant who could make a "mini-me" out of >you, they sculpt your face on a soapstone and mount it on a body similar to >yours. Was really tempted to get one of me but figured ONE of me is plenty. > >There is LOTS of Joni stuff on ebay (coasters, fridge magnets, watches, >keychains, etc) if you're interested in acquiring it. I thought about getting >a Hejira watch which would remind me that it's a good time to listen to some >Joni! > >Bob > >NP: Nat King Cole, "Mona Lisa" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:37:34 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Song for Sharon I hadn't thought of it either, but it wouldn't surprise me that there might be another meaning. Joni does that a lot. For some reason, though, when I hear about "walking green pastures," it reminds me of someone dying. It also reminds me of Roy Rogers and Dale Evans ("Happy trails to you".) Maybe I'm thinking of the hymn, "The sweet by-and-by." It seems like the kind of song Joni might have heard on the radio as a child (maybe played just before the sign-off prayer?) I have no idea where I get that from, but it just comes into my head when I hear that particular verse of "Song for Sharon." >________________________________ > From: Bob Muller >To: Betsy Blue ; "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 6:28:28 PM >Subject: Re: Song for Sharon > >for Sharon? > > >I never thought of that but it certainly could be the case. >The song is of course purely autobiographical. By the same token she could >simply be referring to Sharon's green farmland as opposed to Joni's more >metropolitan and hurried lifestyle at the time. > >Bob > >Conference Call by The Bickering Coworkers> This sounds like a scream, I have >to hear it! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:12:07 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: joni pez? Hi Marianne - If there WAS a Joni pez, rest assured that Gary Zack would have a case of them (and still be on his feet). My first thought was a bobblehead, but Catherine mentioned that. It reminded me of when I was in Shanghai two weeks ago, there was a merchant who could make a "mini-me" out of you, they sculpt your face on a soapstone and mount it on a body similar to yours. Was really tempted to get one of me but figured ONE of me is plenty. There is LOTS of Joni stuff on ebay (coasters, fridge magnets, watches, keychains, etc) if you're interested in acquiring it. I thought about getting a Hejira watch which would remind me that it's a good time to listen to some Joni! Bob NP: Nat King Cole, "Mona Lisa" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:22:02 +0000 (GMT) From: "johnnybgoode@lineone.net" Subject: Re: Song for Sharon All, I take the view that this song is literal rather than allegorical. However, it is about the choices Joni made and the consequence of what she could not have. As regards the relationships in which Joni "wore the trousers", this is surely a consequence of her greater talent, charisma and earning power, and possibly a weakness for loveable rogues or damaged genii. Those that strayed may not have been able to accept this fact or could not take what was on offer on her terms, which because of the trauma she may have experienced earlier on was not always what they wanted or expected. John >----Original Message---- >From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org >Date: 23/11/2011 16:19 >To: >Subj: JMDL Digest V2011 #578 > >JMDL Digest Wednesday, November 23 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 578 > > > >========== > >TOPICS and authors in this Digest: >-------- > Re: Song for Sharon ["Betsy Blue" ] > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:19:07 +0000 >From: "Betsy Blue" >Subject: Re: Song for Sharon > >Sue said "I started thinking about "Barangrill" and the idea of the fork in the road that Joni took all those years ago when she chose her career over a regular life." > >It has always struck me how traditional Joni's views are for a woman who was always more prominent than her partners. (I hear it in HOSL, Snakes&Ladders, etc.) She must have known this was the case even with Chuck, although that marriage was clearly a case of postpartum psychosis. And she probably could have settled down and had kids at any point in her late 20s/early 30s after achieving some financial security, but she chose not to. > >I think she had a deep longing to be the daughter who could please her mother, but that's just not how she was created, and she can't suppress the artist-pioneer inside of her. > >This is all summed up in one line: > >Mama's nylons underneath my cowgirl jeans. > >Betsy >NP If I Could, Seal > >------------------------------ > >End of JMDL Digest V2011 #578 >***************************** > >------- >To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. >Unsubscribe by clicking here: >mailto: joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe >------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:01:06 +0000 From: Anita Subject: Re: The Mutts on Youtube Blown away......... Anita x Sent from my iPod On 23 Nov 2011, at 00:44, Dave Blackburn wrote: > Dear All, > > The full length DVD of our Nov 6th Blue/Court and Spark show is still being > mixed and edited but here's an early taste for you of what we played that > night. More tunes will be up on Youtube soon. The final DVD will be full > 1080p resolution, much better than what you can stream from Youtube and there > will be a way to order PAL or NTSC encoded DVDs at RobinAdler.com...I'll let > you know when they're available. > > Yes, that's THE Max Bennett on bass! > > http://youtu.be/hZoqcOXBu9Y > > hope you all like it. > > love, > Dave and Robin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:27:07 -0600 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: joni pez? > Well, there is the Playmobil Joni: > > http://playmoni.tumblr.com/**post/6909438279/playmo-joni-** mitchell-live-bbc-1970-pink-**dress LOVE that! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:39:15 -0600 From: Sharon Watkins Subject: Song for Sharon Mark you're not alone on that image from the 23rd Psalm...I had the same image going through my head as well. Also, it's interesting how Joni mentioned the "diamond snake around my arm" along with the apple of temptation. In the Biblical account Eve was tempted to eat the fruit by Satan in the form of a serpent. Does the diamond snake represent being coiled in the glitz of show business which looks great on the surface but is (in Joni's words) "a cesspool"? A snake encircling one's arm would seem to be a python, which of course crushes its prey (Joni feeling crushed?). I also had the image of "put out to pasture" coming at the end. Is Joni alluding to the music biz passing her by for the next big thing? Lots to ponder in this dense song. Sharon in Texas Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #338 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe