From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #323 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, November 12 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 323 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Difficult Woman [T Peckham ] Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" [T Peckham ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 02:47:03 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Difficult Woman Thank you for bringing up this very important point that got lost in the discussion. :-) On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Sharon Watkins wrote: > One thing I think we've overlooked is Joni's precarious health as she > battles Morgellon's Syndrome. In my own health challenges, I know there are > good days and bad but none that are great. I save the good days for the > ones who are closest to me, and most of us can count those on one hand. > We are human beings with human needs before we are anything else (butcher, > baker, candlestick maker or, in Joni's case, magnificant > musician/artist/poet). I see Joni as closing ranks, taking care of herself, > and being assertive enough to say no to all but her closest friends. I > applaud her for that even as I grieve her lack of new music and > performances. > Sharon > Sent from my iPhone > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 04:54:54 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" {First of all, my apologies if the formatting in this comes out all funky. When I cut and pasted something in, it seemed like it screwed up the margins and line breaks. Did my best to try to fix it, but . . . } Wow, Kakki, thank you! (I'll admit it, I was hoping somebody out there would like my "pseudo Myrtles" thing. It was meant in good spirit!) You just said more of what I wanted to say, except I can only guess at and intuit what I think Joni might be like in person, whereas you've had the real experience. To me, she almost always comes off as witty and with a wry sense of humor, particularly about herself--what I was trying to express in my previous post. ("Wry" is a much better description than my "almost self-deprecating"). Ha, from me "who's so good with words"---usually. (A wink and a nod to our dear friend Patti there!). ---I too love Rick's characterization of "a wink and a smile." That's how I've always interpreted her now infamous Dylan comments--and his equally infamous quote, paraphrasing from memory here: "Oh, Joni. She's more like a man." [Okay, I'm truly obsessive, so I went in search of the actual quote. I have the Rolling Stone "Cover to Cover" DVD set, but it was easier to Google it and find it on the JMDL. Ha!] Here it is, in context, from a 1987 RS interview w/Kurt Loder: "BD: ' . . . Showbiz--well, I don't dig it. I don't go to see someone jump around. I hate to see chicks perform. _Hate_ it.' KL: 'Why?' BD: 'Because they whore themselves. Especially the ones that don't wear anything. They fuckin' whore themselves.' KL: 'Even someone like Joni Mitchell?' BD: 'Well, no. But, then, Joni Mitchell is almost like a _man_ [laughs]. I mean, I love Joni, too. But Joni's got a strange sense of rhythm that's all her own, and she lives on that timetable . . . Joni Mitchell is in her own world all by herself, so she has a right to keep any rhythm she wants.She's allowed to tell you what time it is.' " I think a lot of people misinterpreted that, just as a lot of people either misinterpreted or took Joni's comments out of context. I'm terrible at deciphering metaphors and symbolism, so there are (still!) a fair amount of things I've missed in some of both Mitchell's and Dylan's lyrics. (I do get it and appreciate it when others discuss and interpret them--but my brain just doesn't immediatelygo there when listening on my own.) On the other hand, when I read and hear interviews with either of them, I feel like I'm listening to my own kind. LOL I mean, I get them. And I'm exactly like Joni (tho far less well-read and accomplished than she) when it comes to conversation: small talk bores me to tears; I consider a good couple of hours of truly engaged talk to be A Nice Start. (I'm also an unrepentant night owl like she is--accident of the genes. But how I'd love to get a phone call from her at 3 AM . . . prime time!) So anyway, those are just more of "so many reasons why" I bristle when I think Ms. Mitchell is being terribly misunderstood and misjudged by some of those who should have a little more faith, let's say, in her spirit and character: those who have followed and know her artistic journey better than the idle listener. No one has to agree with or love or worship everything she's ever done orwritten or said, but she's certainly earned much better than knee-jerk reactions from her disciples--er, fans. ;-) Thinking about going to sleep now, Terra On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:54 PM, kbhla wrote: > Loved reading all the great and very insightful posts on this subject and > agree with all. Also loved Terra's coining of the new term "pseudo > Myrtles" > heehee! That is just perfect! I guess that we do kind of invoke our > "Myrtle" side with Joni at times! But I also know it's just because we > love > her so much. > > > > Years ago around here, and before I ever met Joni, I would always defend > her > when something controversial would come up in some interview and people > would get upset and (to me) jump to all kinds of conclusions. Words on a > flat piece of paper, whether from first or second hand, are sometimes so > inadequate and so often misunderstood, especially when they are originating > from someone like Joni who loves to talk at length about everything and who > is so real. It is said that words alone are the least factor in > communication - body language is the most important factor, followed by > tone > of voice, inflection and facial expression. Unless you can observe all > factors in full, much meaning and context is likely to be lost. > > > > Before I ever was so lucky to meet Joni, I really imagined that she would > be > very aloof and imperious in person. I was beyond surprised on meeting her > to find that she was nothing at all like that and was also happily shocked > that her personality was so much like someone you've known all your life - > "one of the gang". No affectations, no public "star" persona, no polite > and > perfuntory niceties just because you are a fan. I've met and talked with > her three times. Each time she was authentically herself, in the moment > and > very animated and funny, in addtion to also being genuinely warm and > friendly. Oh, and she LOVES to talk and talk and talk (which is a great > bonus!). That combination of high genius and high ordinariness makes her > very extraordinary. > > > > I think some of her words (that sometimes come across as so critical and a > bit scalding) might be interpreted differently if experienced in person. I > experienced her as very witty and wry in an entertaining, but not at all > snarky way. She just seems to like to ramble, and talk and free associate > a > lot. I agree with Rick's comment about a "wink and a smile." I also agree > with Rick that, despite her ordinariness, she is riduculously famous and > loved and it all must be overwhelming, and probably unhealthy, at times to > have to live too much in "that world". Does she act up and lose her temper > at times and sometimes get all crazy? Well, sure she does! Just like most > regular people (or at least myself and people I know)! > > > > I have never thought she owes me anything. I'm always amazed at anything > she has chosen to put out there for us in the past couple of decades. This > was brought home to me again while experiencing the almost supernaturally > beautiful and perfect Mutts of the Planet tribute on Sunday. We've all > listened to Joni's music endlessly for most of our lives. We sings her > songs 24/7 for days on end at Jonifests and gatherings. But there was > something about the performances on Sunday that evoked in me some kind of > lifelong flashback of Joni's life and accomplishments. Two thoughts > predominated - one, it is startling in retrospect to know that Joni wrote > these songs and music when she was only in her 20s and early 30s, and two, > how amazing it was for her to go on all those big tours around the country > in '98 with Bob and Van when she was freaking 55 years old and hadn't > toured > in 15 years!! Bonus points to Joni for also doing the concert tours in > 2000 > with a full orchestra. Throw in a number of art exhibits, collaborations > with other artists and producing a ballet in Canada and the U.S. Maybe > there will be more at some point (one can always hope) but wow, what she > has > already accomplished in her life well exceeds any reasonable expectations! > > > > Kakki > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:11:52 -0500 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Meeting Joni From: T Peckham > I really appreciate hearing all the stories from everyone who has met Ms. > Mitchell in person. Well, I've told this story before - probably too many times - but since you asked.... The first time I met Joni was June 7 1978. I was at the Universal Amphitheatre in LA with my friend Lori Hitchen to see Bob Dylan. We had fairly good seats as I usually bought 6- or 7-show packages in those days. Just before the house lights went down I saw Joni walk in with Don Alias and sit down a few rows in front and to one side of us. Bob was good, but I was kinda distracted during the first set! Some months before I had been visiting my friends Rin and Prema in Santa Cruz, and they showed me a pair of Rin's pants. Around the hem of one leg, Prema had embroidered the geese heads off LOTC. Of course **I** had to have a pair of pants like that, so she embroidered one for me. I was wearing them to the concert that night. After the first set, we went over to where Joni and Don were sitting. I am (or was then) very shy, and very reluctant to force my company on anyone, but I plucked up the courage to say "Hi Joni, I thought you might like to see these" and showed her my pant leg. "Ooo!" she said and bent down to take a closer look, "Very nice!". I told her how much I enjoyed her music and beat a hasty retreat - other people had noticed her and a crowd was gathering. So, a brief meeting, but she showed no sign of annoyance at being approached. I still have the pants...wish I could fit in them! :) *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA FAR-West (Folk Alliance Region - West) tinkersown@ca.rr.com www.far-west.org ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #323 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe