From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #322 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, November 11 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 322 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" [T Peckham ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:56:24 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" I've enjoyed and pretty much agree with everyone's comments and perspectives. I thank you, Anita, for expanding a bit on your original comment (not that you owed me or anyone else an explanation)--but still, I'm glad to know where you were coming from (as we used to say). I'm not as familiar w/your history re Joni as many longer-time listers are, so I didn't realize (or remember) that you have met her. (Do I recall correctly that you own at least one guitar that used to belong to Joni?) I'm so sorry to hear that you're no longer able to play and sing, and that makes ME take a hard look at the reasons I haven't been doing much playing or singing of late. We all come to the discussion with our own views and experiences and projections. I appreciate your (inadvertently) reminding me of mine. :-) I really appreciate hearing all the stories from everyone who has met Ms. Mitchell in person. They tend to bear out what I've always thought when hearing radio or TV interviews of her--that even when expressing very serious ideas and concerns for the state of the world, or talking about how she views her own work and that of others, there is always a hint or an undercurrent of humor (often directed at herself) that too often goes completely missing in print. But even if I didn't hear that, I still think she is one of the most fascinating people on the planet and also one of the most self-aware, and I love hearing and reading anything she has to say. All the best, Terra On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Anita G wrote: > Terra wrote: > > "Or whether or not she has > the right to choose what events she attends and doesn't attend. Why does > respect for her as an artist seem to go completely out the window whenever > it is perceived that she is not behaving the way some would like her to?" > > Terra, you made me think about my own feeling of bitchiness I > expressed about Joni not going to Dave and Robin's concert and > thinking about her not returning Judy Collins' phone calls. I would > like to say that, despite my bitching, my respect for Joni as an > artist has never diminished and, of course, is unlikely ever to - but > I can see how it would sound that way. > > AS many will know, I have also been blessed to meet Joni twice and it > was SO important to me - and she was gracious and everything I could > have hoped. I have often said that my encounters with Joni's > ordinariness have been really important in my own recovery. So what > more could I possibly want? > > When I thought about that this morning, I had some notion that maybe > seeing her music played by Dave and Robin would be really wonderful > for Joni. Then I realised it is just my projection because seeing > Dave and Robin play again would, in fact, be wonderful for ME. I had > an idea that it would be a happy experience for Joni and would being > her joy. Maybe it would, I don't know. But it would certainly bring ME > joy. I also sometimes get grouchy and miffed with her because I want > to see her sing and play again, just as I wish I could sing and play > again. So, therefore, I am owning my projections and wishing Joni a > belated Happy Birthday, however and wherever she spent it! > Love > Anita > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:05:55 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" Well, I've never had the pleasure of meeting Joni but I feel the need to comment on this discussion. It is so easy to paint someone some way, especially those in the public eye. You only see what they present to us. If someone, somewhere takes offense, it easy to get a label slapped you. In addition, our experiences are completely different from one person to the next. You could ask a good friend of mine about me and she would say I'm funny & talkative. You could ask a coworker I pass in the hallway and she may say I'm quiet, maybe even aloof. If you were to ask the cable company their opinion of me, they'd say I was a bitch, haha! It is easy to pass judgement from only what we see, feel, and perceive. It could be that Judy Collins had some experiences with Joni, where she felt Joni was being difficult or perhaps heard stories of such as well. I'm just saying. - -Mon From: T Peckham To: Anita G Cc: Mags ; CoyoteRick ; Mark ; Catherine McKay ; Allison Crowe Music ; "" ; Dave Blackburn ; Kate Johnson ; Betsy Blue Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" I've enjoyed and pretty much agree with everyone's comments and perspectives. I thank you, Anita, for expanding a bit on your original comment (not that you owed me or anyone else an explanation)--but still, I'm glad to know where you were coming from (as we used to say). I'm not as familiar w/your history re Joni as many longer-time listers are, so I didn't realize (or remember) that you have met her. (Do I recall correctly that you own at least one guitar that used to belong to Joni?) I'm so sorry to hear that you're no longer able to play and sing, and that makes ME take a hard look at the reasons I haven't been doing much playing or singing of late. We all come to the discussion with our own views and experiences and projections. I appreciate your (inadvertently) reminding me of mine. :-) I really appreciate hearing all the stories from everyone who has met Ms. Mitchell in person. They tend to bear out what I've always thought when hearing radio or TV interviews of her--that even when expressing very serious ideas and concerns for the state of the world, or talking about how she views her own work and that of others, there is always a hint or an undercurrent of humor (often directed at herself) that too often goes completely missing in print. But even if I didn't hear that, I still think she is one of the most fascinating people on the planet and also one of the most self-aware, and I love hearing and reading anything she has to say. All the best, Terra On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Anita G wrote: > Terra wrote: > > "Or whether or not she has > the right to choose what events she attends and doesn't attend. Why does > respect for her as an artist seem to go completely out the window whenever > it is perceived that she is not behaving the way some would like her to?" > > Terra, you made me think about my own feeling of bitchiness I > expressed about Joni not going to Dave and Robin's concert and > thinking about her not returning Judy Collins' phone calls. I would > like to say that, despite my bitching, my respect for Joni as an > artist has never diminished and, of course, is unlikely ever to - but > I can see how it would sound that way. > > AS many will know, I have also been blessed to meet Joni twice and it > was SO important to me - and she was gracious and everything I could > have hoped. I have often said that my encounters with Joni's > ordinariness have been really important in my own recovery. So what > more could I possibly want? > > When I thought about that this morning, I had some notion that maybe > seeing her music played by Dave and Robin would be really wonderful > for Joni. Then I realised it is just my projection because seeing > Dave and Robin play again would, in fact, be wonderful for ME. I had > an idea that it would be a happy experience for Joni and would being > her joy. Maybe it would, I don't know. But it would certainly bring ME > joy. I also sometimes get grouchy and miffed with her because I want > to see her sing and play again, just as I wish I could sing and play > again. So, therefore, I am owning my projections and wishing Joni a > belated Happy Birthday, however and wherever she spent it! > Love > Anita > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:54:15 -0800 From: "kbhla" Subject: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" Loved reading all the great and very insightful posts on this subject and agree with all. Also loved Terra's coining of the new term "pseudo Myrtles" heehee! That is just perfect! I guess that we do kind of invoke our "Myrtle" side with Joni at times! But I also know it's just because we love her so much. Years ago around here, and before I ever met Joni, I would always defend her when something controversial would come up in some interview and people would get upset and (to me) jump to all kinds of conclusions. Words on a flat piece of paper, whether from first or second hand, are sometimes so inadequate and so often misunderstood, especially when they are originating from someone like Joni who loves to talk at length about everything and who is so real. It is said that words alone are the least factor in communication - body language is the most important factor, followed by tone of voice, inflection and facial expression. Unless you can observe all factors in full, much meaning and context is likely to be lost. Before I ever was so lucky to meet Joni, I really imagined that she would be very aloof and imperious in person. I was beyond surprised on meeting her to find that she was nothing at all like that and was also happily shocked that her personality was so much like someone you've known all your life - "one of the gang". No affectations, no public "star" persona, no polite and perfuntory niceties just because you are a fan. I've met and talked with her three times. Each time she was authentically herself, in the moment and very animated and funny, in addtion to also being genuinely warm and friendly. Oh, and she LOVES to talk and talk and talk (which is a great bonus!). That combination of high genius and high ordinariness makes her very extraordinary. I think some of her words (that sometimes come across as so critical and a bit scalding) might be interpreted differently if experienced in person. I experienced her as very witty and wry in an entertaining, but not at all snarky way. She just seems to like to ramble, and talk and free associate a lot. I agree with Rick's comment about a "wink and a smile." I also agree with Rick that, despite her ordinariness, she is riduculously famous and loved and it all must be overwhelming, and probably unhealthy, at times to have to live too much in "that world". Does she act up and lose her temper at times and sometimes get all crazy? Well, sure she does! Just like most regular people (or at least myself and people I know)! I have never thought she owes me anything. I'm always amazed at anything she has chosen to put out there for us in the past couple of decades. This was brought home to me again while experiencing the almost supernaturally beautiful and perfect Mutts of the Planet tribute on Sunday. We've all listened to Joni's music endlessly for most of our lives. We sings her songs 24/7 for days on end at Jonifests and gatherings. But there was something about the performances on Sunday that evoked in me some kind of lifelong flashback of Joni's life and accomplishments. Two thoughts predominated - one, it is startling in retrospect to know that Joni wrote these songs and music when she was only in her 20s and early 30s, and two, how amazing it was for her to go on all those big tours around the country in '98 with Bob and Van when she was freaking 55 years old and hadn't toured in 15 years!! Bonus points to Joni for also doing the concert tours in 2000 with a full orchestra. Throw in a number of art exhibits, collaborations with other artists and producing a ballet in Canada and the U.S. Maybe there will be more at some point (one can always hope) but wow, what she has already accomplished in her life well exceeds any reasonable expectations! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:18:24 -0600 From: "Cindy Casey RN" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2011 #463 Sharon, Thank you for the understanding reminder in your sensitive post to all of Joni's fans that Morgellons Disease does take a toll and that precarious health conditions can be road blocks to creativity for all of us. Cindy Casey Joni Mitchell Fan Advocate for Morgellons Disease www.thecehf.org - ----- Original Message ----- From: "JMDL Digest" To: Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:22 PM Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #463 > > JMDL Digest Thursday, November 10 2011 Volume 2011 : Number > 463 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Difficult Woman [Sharon Watkins > ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:17:10 -0600 > From: Sharon Watkins > Subject: Difficult Woman > > One thing I think we've overlooked is Joni's precarious health as she > battles Morgellon's Syndrome. In my own health challenges, I know there > are good days and bad but none that are great. I save the good days for > the ones who are closest to me, and most of us can count those on one > hand. > We are human beings with human needs before we are anything else (butcher, > baker, candlestick maker or, in Joni's case, magnificant > musician/artist/poet). I see Joni as closing ranks, taking care of > herself, and being assertive enough to say no to all but her closest > friends. I applaud her for that even as I grieve her lack of new music and > performances. > Sharon > Sent from my iPhone > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2011 #463 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #322 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe