From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #321 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, November 10 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 321 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" ["Betsy Blue" ] Re: Blazes All Across The Sky: Writers Respond to the Poetry of Joni Mitchell [Merk54@a] Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" [Catherine McKay ] Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" ["Mark" Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" Good discussion. Here's my 2 cents. I heard nothing in Judy Collin's statement that was mean or undeserved. It was just her perspective on Joni, and she didn't seem particularly troubled by their (lack of) relationship. When Graham Nash made his cement mixer comment, it was out of the hurt he felt as a young man with a big emotional investment. And it was about Joni's behavior as a young woman. I think we are too quick to try to put labels on people. Joni, like all of us, doesn't need to be "happy" or "kind" or "difficult" because she is a whole person with all of those qualities in her. We expect to know her because she is a public figure, and because she has let us see so much of herself, but that's not fair or realistic. "Constant stranger, you're a kind person; you're a cold person, too." Betsy NP My City Was Gone, Pretenders ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:17:10 -0600 From: Sharon Watkins Subject: Difficult Woman One thing I think we've overlooked is Joni's precarious health as she battles Morgellon's Syndrome. In my own health challenges, I know there are good days and bad but none that are great. I save the good days for the ones who are closest to me, and most of us can count those on one hand. We are human beings with human needs before we are anything else (butcher, baker, candlestick maker or, in Joni's case, magnificant musician/artist/poet). I see Joni as closing ranks, taking care of herself, and being assertive enough to say no to all but her closest friends. I applaud her for that even as I grieve her lack of new music and performances. Sharon Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:48:39 -0500 (EST) From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Blazes All Across The Sky: Writers Respond to the Poetry of Joni Mitchell Interesting timing. I just read an article in the Chicago Tribune about poetry versus lyrics. The article is primarily about Stephen Sondheim who doesn't consider himself a poet. Joni does get a very minor mention. In the printed article, there was even a photo and a comment about how Joni's lyrics touched people's hearts but not necessarily their minds (huh?). Any way, here is the link in case anyone is interested. _http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/ct-ent-1101-song-lyrics-poetry- 20111031,0,2818087.column_ (http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/ct-ent-1101-song-lyrics-poetry-20111031,0,2818087.column) Jack In a message dated 11/7/2011 9:21:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, lesirvin@gmail.com writes: A new book, tentatively titled "Blazes All Across The Sky: Writers Respond to the Poetry of Joni Mitchell", will be published in Spring 2013 by Three OClock Press of Toronto. According to sources close to her, Joni is excited about the project because it is about her work as a poet, and the creative process itself, and has many incredible contributors, including First Nations authors. They also said she will be contributing to the project in some way herself. Many authors and artists are involved; some are famous, some friends of Joni. Wally Lamb, Kim Addonizio, Estrella Berosini ("Estrella, circus girl"), and Sharon Veer ("Song for Sharon") are among the cast of contributors, to name a few. The book is a compilation of original essays, poetry, short fiction, a scene from a new play, and a few original photographs, paintings, and collages. Each contributor shares his or her connection to, interpretation of, and inspiration from their favorite Mitchell poem. Many comment on a larger societal or political issue explored therein. All share their experiences of why Jonis work has been so important to them, and in doing so, touch yet transcend the personal. "Blazes" is the vision of Lisa Sornberger, a poet who created this project to honor Joni as one of the finest poets of our time. "It is my way to say thank you to someone whose work has resonated so deeply, brought me great joy, and solace, and sparked my own creative process. I think I can safely say the other contributors feel similarly." John Sornberger is Lisas co-editor, and brings his talents as a poet, author, editor, and left-brained thinker to the project. "We expect the result will be a meeting of the minds and hearts of those everywhere who have been moved by Mitchells poetry. It is high time Joni got her due as the poet she is", say the Sornbergers. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 08:03:49 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" She doesn't call. She doesn't write. Yeesh! Good interview though. Thanks, Michael. >________________________________ >From: Susan Tierney McNamara >To: Michael Sentance ; "joni@smoe.org" >Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:42:04 AM >Subject: RE: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" > >Joni Mitchell doesn't return my phone calls either :-(. Thanks for that Michael, great interview. sue > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Michael Sentance >Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 9:58 AM >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" > >There was a recent (October 27, 2011) interview with Judy Collins in the >New York Times. The recording of the interview is embedded in their web >page. > >It's pretty interesting. The interview starts with about 19:48 left on the >podcast after an interview with the Dum-Dum Girls. A group that is outside >the realm of my experience. > >Anyway, the link is here: >http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/popcast-interviews-with-dum-dum - -girls-and-judy-collins/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:36:39 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" On 8 November 2011 16:03, Catherine McKay wrote: > She doesn't call. She doesn't write. Yeesh! And she doesn't turn up to gigs to see people sing and play her songs better than she did........... Anita (feeling bitchy) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:55:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Dizzy's concert links Thanks Dave, I've just read it. And oh wow, what a great review! It almost made me feel for a minute I was there, that's probably because I could so easily recognise what he was writing, and link it to my memories of what you guys sound like. Very much looking forward to the recording! Lieve >________________________________ >From: Dave Blackburn >To: Lieve Reckers >Cc: "joni@smoe.org List" >Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2011, 14:43 >Subject: Re: Dizzy's concert links > >Hi Lieve, > >I have copied the text of the review to Robin's website >http://www.robinadler.com/press.html > >I wish you could have been there too, but there will be HD video of it for you >to watch in the near future. > > >Dave > > > > > >On Nov 9, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Lieve Reckers wrote: > >> Hi Dave, >> the San Diego Reader review seems no longer available - or is that because >it's only available in the States? >> >> In any case, the photos are great, and I'm so happy with your success! Wish >I could have been there! >> Lieve >> >> From: Dave Blackburn >> To: "joni@smoe.org List" >> Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011, 15:12 >> Subject: Dizzy's concert links >> >> Here are two links from Sunday's show at Dizzy's where our full 8pc band >> performed Blue and Court and Spark. Kakki, Lindsay, Steve and Roch were in >the >> front row so they can tell you more but we had a great night ourselves and >> look forward to having the videos available to share soon. >> >> The San Diego Reader review is here: >> >http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/jam-session/2011/nov/07/joni-mitchell-t >> ributesro-at-dizzys/ >> >> The photos by Sports photographer Dennis Andersen are here: >> >http://actionsportsphoto.smugmug.com/Music/ROBIN-ADLER-DAVE-BLACKBURN-1/19966 >> 091_cX3B3T >> >> Happy birthday Joni! (she didn't come to the show although invited-no >> surprises) >> >> Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:07:09 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" I haven't had time to listen to this interview yet but I'm loving the reactions from Catherine, Terra et al. And Catherine's post made me think of the last Q & A from Cameron Crowe's interview with Joni for Rolling Stone, way back in 1979: Last question. What would you have listed, as Woody Allen did at the end of 'Manhattan,' as your reasons why life is worth living? It would be very similar to his. I would name different musicians, but it might finally be a beautiful face that would make me put the microphone down. I would just be thinking fondly of someone who I love, you know. And just dreaming of . . . Basically if you want to say it in one word? Happiness? It's a funny thing about happiness. You can strive and strive and strive to be happy, but happiness will sneak up on you in the most peculiar ways. I feel happy suddenly. I don't know why. Some days, the way the light strikes things. Or for some beautifully immature reason like finding myself running to the kitchen to make myself some toast. Happiness comes to me even on a bad day. In very, very strange ways. I'm very happy in my life right now. I've always thought Joni was saying basically the same thing that Catherine said in her post. We can't be 100% happy 100% of the time. But, back in 1979 anyway, Joni seemed blessed with the ability to find happiness in small things. I like to think she still has flashes of those 'beautifully immature reason(s)' and that those moments are what keep her going. And I agree with Terra. She's given us so much over the years. She doesn't owe us anything. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 3:05 PM To: T Peckham ; Allison Crowe Music Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" Not that I know anything about it, so I have a lot of nerve to say so, but I actually think Joni IS relatively happy, inasmuch as it's possible for anyone to *be* happy. I think that we, or at least western cultures, are overly concerned with being happy or up all the time. Even the American Declaration of Independence includes a line about their rights including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and I think that modern-day Americans at least forget about the pursuit part and are more concerned with the happiness and that people mistake happiness for having everything your little ol' heart desires and walking around with a permanent grin on your face just to prove it to everyone else. But really, if someone was happy all the time, then they really wouldn't be happy - they'd just be in a perpectual state of sameness and wouldn't recognize happiness when it did come along. We're all in pursuit of something and sometimes that something brings happiness but often, we arrive at the place we think we want to be, only to realize that now we want something else. And I think this is all part of the human struggle and the fight between different poles and the quest for some kind of equilibrium, except that once equilibrium has been reached, something needs to happen to upset the balance again, and often we are the ones that upset the balance, because we become bored with it. I think that Joni's writing shows her to be a person who's always in search of something (looking for something, what can it be?) and that for people who are seekers or on a quest of some kind (and I have to think that anyone with even a bit of intelligence is constantly on a quest for something, whether it's love, or truth, or the perfect decorating scheme), then priorities will constantly change. Then, try to reconcile that with some dude in a suit whose concern is pushing product and the bottom line, and there's bound to be another conflict and the possibility of losing a bit of your soul. I don't want to knock anyone who wants Joni to be happy. We all want the people we love to be happy. But the fact is, we have no idea whether she's happy or not. I'd like to think that she is, much of the time, but that, like the rest of us, she experiences the full range of emotions and that, in the end, she's probably relatively happy, or satisfied, with the way things have turned out, but that she has regrets about certain things too. And don't we all? Who wouldn't do certain things differently if given the chance, or if we had some way of knowing then what we know now? And other pseudo-philosophical bullshit of the kind, but I think you will know what I mean. >________________________________ >From: T Peckham >To: Allison Crowe Music >Cc: joni@smoe.org; anima_rising@yahoo.ca >Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 4:40:51 PM >Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" > >Oh, thank god! I've been too busy (and was too angry, initially) to respond >to this thread. Thank you, Catherine, but especially Allison for providing >much-needed perspective. You covered Mr. Strauss (whose work and rep I too >was familiar with) beautifully. 'Nuf said about him and his ilk. > >I have to address another point, tho, that I've been shutting up about for >a while now. I don't understand the concern on the part of some as to >whether or not Ms. Mitchell is "nice." Or happy. Or whether or not she has >the right to choose what events she attends and doesn't attend. Why does >respect for her as an artist seem to go completely out the window whenever >it is perceived that she is not behaving the way some would like her to? >It's mind-boggling. It's like a bunch of pseudo Myrtles out there, still, >at this late date, disapproving of her. > >As for Judy Collins' comments, I didn't hear anything mean-spirited in >them. She stated the facts: Joni Mitchell IS a difficult woman. Most >geniuses ARE "difficult." Ms. Collins seems to have made her peace with the >"boundaries" Joni has put up, without going into a lot of hand-wringing >over the reasons. Accept it and move on. > >Ms. Mitchell (nor any other artist of any kind, IMO) doesn't owe her fans a >damned thing. She gave us the work. She continues to give--thru whatever >late works she chooses to share with us, and with her continuing and >growing influence--more than most. So she isn't a warm and fuzzy sweet >grandmotherly type. So she is perceived as not being "happy." So what? It's >nobody's bizness but her own. So wish her well, stop expecting her to be a >perfect human being (no such thing), and continue to enjoy the art. > >Terra (not letting the door hit me too hard on the ass on my way out) :-D > > >On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Allison Crowe Music < >management@allisoncrowe.com> wrote: > >> D'accord to all of Catherine's comments. >> >> Seeing Neil Strauss' name come up in this current conversation prompted my >> post. This is a shallow-celeb-centric writer who boasts about what he views >> as his own brilliance - using tricks he supposedly learned as a "pick-up >> artist" to get Britney Spears to warm to him. And, another self-claim to >> his >> own fame - he brought Lady Gaga to tears. No surprise that he'd not find >> any >> self-promotional benefit in his inability to similarly influence Joni >> Mitchell. >> >> Joni pegged that sort of character a long time earlier - the kind who >> "don't >> like strong women because they're hip to your tricks". >> >> Joni speaks the absolute truth about the popular music industry. (Even her >> most unpopular statements are rooted in fact eg. Bob Dylan IS a >> plagiarist.) >> That she doesn't humour, or accept, the fraudulent - the "style inventions" >> that are passed off as sing-songwriters today etc. - is to her credit. As >> for her personal interactions, as Catherine says, it's good to consider the >> source, and the context. >> > > > >-- >"An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." >---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:20:13 -0500 (EST) From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Susan Boyle I saw her perform BSN on Good Morning America a week or so ago. I thought she did pretty job, but did omit the verse about love. I assumed they did this because of time constraints. I would hope that the recorded version had all the verses. Jack In a message dated 11/8/2011 12:50:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, bobsart48@aol.com writes: Willie wrote: "How timely. Susan Boyle sings Both Sides Now on Joni's birthday on an ITV daytime chat/magazine show. Subo is a kind of guilty pleasure - she lives just up the road from here." I haven't kept up with all the digests lately, but I do not recall seeing a report on this yet, so here goes: Susan Boyle appeared on Piers Morgan on Friday night as the second part of a two part interview, which featured her performing Both Sides Now. I think she left out a verse. Here's a link - I found the interview a bit amusing. It's 15 minutes. The song is near the end. Not sure how to control skipping to end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgsvm-muxoM&feature=share Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:08:42 -0500 (EST) From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Meshell Ndegeocello performing Joni/Mingus songs with the Chicago Jazz Ensemble While looking up the Lyrics versus Poetry article in the Chicago Tribune, I came across this exciting bit of news. "Beneath the Underdog: The Musical World of _Charles Mingus_ (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/entertainment/music/charles-mingus-PECLB003229.topic) " (Jan. 20) will feature not only _Christian McBride_ (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/entertainment/christian-mcbride-PECLB003158.topic) , the greatest jazz bassist of the under-40 generation, but also pop singer Meshell Ndegeocello, who will explore repertoire from Mingus' collaboration with _Joni Mitchell_ (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/entertainment/music/joni-mitchell-PECLB003234.topic) . Occurring at the wonderful Harris Theater in downtown Chicago, this should be a very interesting show. I've got my ticket already. Hope to see some other Joni fans in attendance. Jack ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #321 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe