From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #318 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, November 9 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 318 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" ["Allison Crowe Music] Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" [Catherine McKay ] RE: Susan Boyle ["Robert Sartorius" ] Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" [Mags ] Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" [Catherine McKay ] Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" [T Peckham ] Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" ["Allison Crowe Music] Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" [CoyoteRick Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" Joni Mitchell's unflinching candour does ruffle feathers. Invariably, though, she's speaking truth. Forgive me, as this may well have been raised earlier in the year, and if so, I missed it, but, when celeb/pop culturist Neil Strauss' book, "Everyone Loves You When You're Dead..." was published, some, such as The Guardian's reviewer, added a bit of context eg. "Strauss gives aloof women - Joni Mitchell, say - very short shrift, as might be expected of a writer instinctively drawn to the lives of rock pigs, PUAs (pick-up-artists) and porn stars (Strauss also ghostwrote Jenna Jameson's How to Make Love Like a Porn Star)." Strauss is fortunate, indeed, to get any time whatsoever with a genuine musical artist. No doubt his pick-up lines and strategies fall flat on intelligent subjects. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 05:34:45 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" Loved this post, especially your last line. I don't remember seeing this book mentioned previously and I wouldn't blame Joni, or anyone with a brain, for giving this guy the brushoff (really, is "making love" what porn stars do? I don't think so, but that's a whole other discussion!) I'm not sure what we expect of Joni. She's an artist and a human being and, like all of us, has her likes and dislikes. It's really difficult to tell from the odd interview what she's really like as a person, so it's easy to become judgmental based on what we do see and hear, and so much of it has to do with what a cesspool the recording industry is. In some ways, frustrating as it can be, I admire Joni for not making herself too accessible. It has been said before, but is worth repeating, I think, that her music speaks for itself. After you've spilled your guts in public and written in your own blood, what else is there to say? Those on this list who are lucky enough to have met her in person say that she's a very kind and warm person, and that means much more to me than what some armchair critic has to say. >________________________________ >From: Allison Crowe Music >To: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 4:11:55 AM >Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" > >Joni Mitchell's unflinching candour does ruffle feathers. Invariably, >though, she's speaking truth. > >Forgive me, as this may well have been raised earlier in the year, and if >so, I missed it, but, when celeb/pop culturist Neil Strauss' book, "Everyone >Loves You When You're Dead..." was published, some, such as The Guardian's >reviewer, added a bit of context eg. "Strauss gives aloof women - Joni >Mitchell, say - very short shrift, as might be expected of a writer >instinctively drawn to the lives of rock pigs, PUAs (pick-up-artists) and >porn stars (Strauss also ghostwrote Jenna Jameson's How to Make Love Like a >Porn Star)." > >Strauss is fortunate, indeed, to get any time whatsoever with a genuine >musical artist. No doubt his pick-up lines and strategies fall flat on >intelligent subjects. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:37:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Dizzy's concert links Hi Dave, the San Diego Reader review seems no longer available - or is that because it's only available in the States? In any case, the photos are great, and I'm so happy with your success! Wish I could have been there! Lieve >________________________________ >From: Dave Blackburn >To: "joni@smoe.org List" >Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011, 15:12 >Subject: Dizzy's concert links > >Here are two links from Sunday's show at Dizzy's where our full 8pc band >performed Blue and Court and Spark. Kakki, Lindsay, Steve and Roch were in the >front row so they can tell you more but we had a great night ourselves and >look forward to having the videos available to share soon. > >The San Diego Reader review is here: >http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/jam-session/2011/nov/07/joni-mitchell-t >ributesro-at-dizzys/ > >The photos by Sports photographer Dennis Andersen are here: >http://actionsportsphoto.smugmug.com/Music/ROBIN-ADLER-DAVE-BLACKBURN-1/19966 >091_cX3B3T > >Happy birthday Joni! (she didn't come to the show although invited-no >surprises) > >Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:25:28 -0500 From: "Robert Sartorius" Subject: RE: Susan Boyle Willie wrote: "How timely. Susan Boyle sings Both Sides Now on Joni's birthday on an ITV daytime chat/magazine show. Subo is a kind of guilty pleasure - she lives just up the road from here." I haven't kept up with all the digests lately, but I do not recall seeing a report on this yet, so here goes: Susan Boyle appeared on Piers Morgan on Friday night as the second part of a two part interview, which featured her performing Both Sides Now. I think she left out a verse. Here's a link - I found the interview a bit amusing. It's 15 minutes. The song is near the end. Not sure how to control skipping to end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgsvm-muxoM&feature=share Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 07:25:39 -0800 (PST) From: Mags Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" Catherine wrote: I'm not sure what we expect of Joni. She's an artist and a human being and, like all of us, has her likes and dislikes. It's really difficult to tell from the odd interview what she's really like as a person, so it's easy to become judgmental based on what we do see and hear, and so much of it has to do with what a cesspool the recording industry is. In some ways, frustrating as it can be, I admire Joni for not making herself too accessible. It has been said before, but is worth repeating, I think, that her music speaks for itself. After you've spilled your guts in public and written in your own blood, what else is there to say? Those on this list who are lucky enough to have met her in person say that she's a very kind and warm person, and that means much more to me than what some armchair critic has to say. now moi: Catherine, so glad you allowed us inside the inner sanctum of your thoughts which are in concert to the way I feel ;-) For me, the Woman of Heart and Mind DVD feeds my inner longings to know more, to see her, and mostly to listen to her. An incredibly revealing piece of art on so many levels. As you said, she is a human being and who knows what is really is to be under such (at times) unforgiving scrutiny. I am glad and grateful to Terry Williams, a DJ on that little radio station back home for introducing me to the music, life and times of Joni Mitchell. The stories within have been enhanced by reading all of your takes and experiences in meeting her, the insight into her music resonates into a place of my familiar and I just love that so much. And I will never forget the twinkle in Graham's eye when he speaks about her, with so much love. *sigh* Not writing here much these days. And yet. I do try to read as I am able. Busy busy life, days in the life. Celebrating life and all that good stuff. And while I'm at it, dear friend and local musician Dan Frechette has a lunch hour gig at a new cafe (not the right word for the place but still). He asked if we had any requests and I said (surprise surprise) got any Joni Mitchell up your sleeve. So he ripped into a brilliant cover of Free Man in Paris ( I sang along from my seat in the upstairs choir ;) and it was just so fun. Imagine pulling that one out of your heart with no notice at all. Dan is a huge fan of Joni's music, as well as Neil Young, who he channels so very well. Mags watching white flags of winter chimneys ;--) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:57:56 -0500 From: Michael Sentance Subject: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" There was a recent (October 27, 2011) interview with Judy Collins in the New York Times. The recording of the interview is embedded in their web page. It's pretty interesting. The interview starts with about 19:48 left on the podcast after an interview with the Dum-Dum Girls. A group that is outside the realm of my experience. Anyway, the link is here: http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/popcast-interviews-with-dum-dum-girls-and-judy-collins/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:12:15 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Dizzy's concert links Here are two links from Sunday's show at Dizzy's where our full 8pc band performed Blue and Court and Spark. Kakki, Lindsay, Steve and Roch were in the front row so they can tell you more but we had a great night ourselves and look forward to having the videos available to share soon. The San Diego Reader review is here: http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/jam-session/2011/nov/07/joni-mitchell-t ributesro-at-dizzys/ The photos by Sports photographer Dennis Andersen are here: http://actionsportsphoto.smugmug.com/Music/ROBIN-ADLER-DAVE-BLACKBURN-1/19966 091_cX3B3T Happy birthday Joni! (she didn't come to the show although invited-no surprises) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:05:19 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" Not that I know anything about it, so I have a lot of nerve to say so, but I actually think Joni IS relatively happy, inasmuch as it's possible for anyone to *be* happy. I think that we, or at least western cultures, are overly concerned with being happy or up all the time. Even the American Declaration of Independence includes a line about their rights including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and I think that modern-day Americans at least forget about the pursuit part and are more concerned with the happiness and that people mistake happiness for having everything your little ol' heart desires and walking around with a permanent grin on your face just to prove it to everyone else. But really, if someone was happy all the time, then they really wouldn't be happy - they'd just be in a perpectual state of sameness and wouldn't recognize happiness when it did come along. We're all in pursuit of something and sometimes that something brings happiness but often, we arrive at the place we think we want to be, only to realize that now we want something else. And I think this is all part of the human struggle and the fight between different poles and the quest for some kind of equilibrium, except that once equilibrium has been reached, something needs to happen to upset the balance again, and often we are the ones that upset the balance, because we become bored with it. I think that Joni's writing shows her to be a person who's always in search of something (looking for something, what can it be?) and that for people who are seekers or on a quest of some kind (and I have to think that anyone with even a bit of intelligence is constantly on a quest for something, whether it's love, or truth, or the perfect decorating scheme), then priorities will constantly change. Then, try to reconcile that with some dude in a suit whose concern is pushing product and the bottom line, and there's bound to be another conflict and the possibility of losing a bit of your soul. I don't want to knock anyone who wants Joni to be happy. We all want the people we love to be happy. But the fact is, we have no idea whether she's happy or not. I'd like to think that she is, much of the time, but that, like the rest of us, she experiences the full range of emotions and that, in the end, she's probably relatively happy, or satisfied, with the way things have turned out, but that she has regrets about certain things too. And don't we all? Who wouldn't do certain things differently if given the chance, or if we had some way of knowing then what we know now? And other pseudo-philosophical bullshit of the kind, but I think you will know what I mean. >________________________________ >From: T Peckham >To: Allison Crowe Music >Cc: joni@smoe.org; anima_rising@yahoo.ca >Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 4:40:51 PM >Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" > >Oh, thank god! I've been too busy (and was too angry, initially) to respond >to this thread. Thank you, Catherine, but especially Allison for providing >much-needed perspective. You covered Mr. Strauss (whose work and rep I too >was familiar with) beautifully. 'Nuf said about him and his ilk. > >I have to address another point, tho, that I've been shutting up about for >a while now. I don't understand the concern on the part of some as to >whether or not Ms. Mitchell is "nice." Or happy. Or whether or not she has >the right to choose what events she attends and doesn't attend. Why does >respect for her as an artist seem to go completely out the window whenever >it is perceived that she is not behaving the way some would like her to? >It's mind-boggling. It's like a bunch of pseudo Myrtles out there, still, >at this late date, disapproving of her. > >As for Judy Collins' comments, I didn't hear anything mean-spirited in >them. She stated the facts: Joni Mitchell IS a difficult woman. Most >geniuses ARE "difficult." Ms. Collins seems to have made her peace with the >"boundaries" Joni has put up, without going into a lot of hand-wringing >over the reasons. Accept it and move on. > >Ms. Mitchell (nor any other artist of any kind, IMO) doesn't owe her fans a >damned thing. She gave us the work. She continues to give--thru whatever >late works she chooses to share with us, and with her continuing and >growing influence--more than most. So she isn't a warm and fuzzy sweet >grandmotherly type. So she is perceived as not being "happy." So what? It's >nobody's bizness but her own. So wish her well, stop expecting her to be a >perfect human being (no such thing), and continue to enjoy the art. > >Terra (not letting the door hit me too hard on the ass on my way out) :-D > > >On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Allison Crowe Music < >management@allisoncrowe.com> wrote: > >> D'accord to all of Catherine's comments. >> >> Seeing Neil Strauss' name come up in this current conversation prompted my >> post. This is a shallow-celeb-centric writer who boasts about what he views >> as his own brilliance - using tricks he supposedly learned as a "pick-up >> artist" to get Britney Spears to warm to him. And, another self-claim to >> his >> own fame - he brought Lady Gaga to tears. No surprise that he'd not find >> any >> self-promotional benefit in his inability to similarly influence Joni >> Mitchell. >> >> Joni pegged that sort of character a long time earlier - the kind who >> "don't >> like strong women because they're hip to your tricks". >> >> Joni speaks the absolute truth about the popular music industry. (Even her >> most unpopular statements are rooted in fact eg. Bob Dylan IS a >> plagiarist.) >> That she doesn't humour, or accept, the fraudulent - the "style inventions" >> that are passed off as sing-songwriters today etc. - is to her credit. As >> for her personal interactions, as Catherine says, it's good to consider the >> source, and the context. >> > > > >-- >"An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." >---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:20:13 -0500 (EST) From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Susan Boyle I saw her perform BSN on Good Morning America a week or so ago. I thought she did pretty job, but did omit the verse about love. I assumed they did this because of time constraints. I would hope that the recorded version had all the verses. Jack In a message dated 11/8/2011 12:50:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, bobsart48@aol.com writes: Willie wrote: "How timely. Susan Boyle sings Both Sides Now on Joni's birthday on an ITV daytime chat/magazine show. Subo is a kind of guilty pleasure - she lives just up the road from here." I haven't kept up with all the digests lately, but I do not recall seeing a report on this yet, so here goes: Susan Boyle appeared on Piers Morgan on Friday night as the second part of a two part interview, which featured her performing Both Sides Now. I think she left out a verse. Here's a link - I found the interview a bit amusing. It's 15 minutes. The song is near the end. Not sure how to control skipping to end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgsvm-muxoM&feature=share Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 18:23:04 +0000 From: Paul Castle Subject: Re: Dizzy's concert links Bravo Dave and Robin! Love this quote - "In truth, though, it's hard to single any one person out for praise, because each member of Mutts Of The Planet played their asses off." very best PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:40:51 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" Oh, thank god! I've been too busy (and was too angry, initially) to respond to this thread. Thank you, Catherine, but especially Allison for providing much-needed perspective. You covered Mr. Strauss (whose work and rep I too was familiar with) beautifully. 'Nuf said about him and his ilk. I have to address another point, tho, that I've been shutting up about for a while now. I don't understand the concern on the part of some as to whether or not Ms. Mitchell is "nice." Or happy. Or whether or not she has the right to choose what events she attends and doesn't attend. Why does respect for her as an artist seem to go completely out the window whenever it is perceived that she is not behaving the way some would like her to? It's mind-boggling. It's like a bunch of pseudo Myrtles out there, still, at this late date, disapproving of her. As for Judy Collins' comments, I didn't hear anything mean-spirited in them. She stated the facts: Joni Mitchell IS a difficult woman. Most geniuses ARE "difficult." Ms. Collins seems to have made her peace with the "boundaries" Joni has put up, without going into a lot of hand-wringing over the reasons. Accept it and move on. Ms. Mitchell (nor any other artist of any kind, IMO) doesn't owe her fans a damned thing. She gave us the work. She continues to give--thru whatever late works she chooses to share with us, and with her continuing and growing influence--more than most. So she isn't a warm and fuzzy sweet grandmotherly type. So she is perceived as not being "happy." So what? It's nobody's bizness but her own. So wish her well, stop expecting her to be a perfect human being (no such thing), and continue to enjoy the art. Terra (not letting the door hit me too hard on the ass on my way out) :-D On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Allison Crowe Music < management@allisoncrowe.com> wrote: > D'accord to all of Catherine's comments. > > Seeing Neil Strauss' name come up in this current conversation prompted my > post. This is a shallow-celeb-centric writer who boasts about what he views > as his own brilliance - using tricks he supposedly learned as a "pick-up > artist" to get Britney Spears to warm to him. And, another self-claim to > his > own fame - he brought Lady Gaga to tears. No surprise that he'd not find > any > self-promotional benefit in his inability to similarly influence Joni > Mitchell. > > Joni pegged that sort of character a long time earlier - the kind who > "don't > like strong women because they're hip to your tricks". > > Joni speaks the absolute truth about the popular music industry. (Even her > most unpopular statements are rooted in fact eg. Bob Dylan IS a > plagiarist.) > That she doesn't humour, or accept, the fraudulent - the "style inventions" > that are passed off as sing-songwriters today etc. - is to her credit. As > for her personal interactions, as Catherine says, it's good to consider the > source, and the context. > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 10:47:14 -0500 (EST) From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Dizzy's concert links What a fantastic review! How I wish I could have been there. Congrats to everyone involved in this. It sounds like it was a magical evening. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:47:23 +0100 From: Marion Leffler Subject: Re: Blazes All Across The Sky: Writers Respond to the Poetry of Joni Mitchell Great! Something to look forward to! And a nice birthday present for Joni, this news is. An early Xmas present for us. Marion 2011/11/7 Les Irvin > A new book, tentatively titled "Blazes All Across The Sky: Writers Respond > to the Poetry of Joni Mitchell", will be published in Spring 2013 by Three > O Clock Press of Toronto. > > According to sources close to her, Joni is excited about the project > because it is about her work as a poet, and the creative process itself, > and has many incredible contributors, including First Nations authors. They > also said she will be contributing to the project in some way herself. > > Many authors and artists are involved; some are famous, some friends of > Joni. Wally Lamb, Kim Addonizio, Estrella Berosini ("Estrella, circus > girl"), and Sharon Veer ("Song for Sharon") are among the cast of > contributors, to name a few. > > The book is a compilation of original essays, poetry, short fiction, a > scene from a new play, and a few original photographs, paintings, and > collages. > > Each contributor shares his or her connection to, interpretation of, and > inspiration from their favorite Mitchell poem. Many comment on a larger > societal or political issue explored therein. All share their experiences > of why Joni s work has been so important to them, and in doing so, touch > yet transcend the personal. > > "Blazes" is the vision of Lisa Sornberger, a poet who created this project > to honor Joni as one of the finest poets of our time. "It is my way to say > thank you to someone whose work has resonated so deeply, brought me great > joy, and solace, and sparked my own creative process. I think I can safely > say the other contributors feel similarly." > > John Sornberger is Lisa s co-editor, and brings his talents as a poet, > author, editor, and left-brained thinker to the project. > > "We expect the result will be a meeting of the minds and hearts of those > everywhere who have been moved by Mitchell s poetry. It is high time Joni > got her due as the poet she is", say the Sornbergers. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:34:57 -0500 From: Michael Sentance Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" I wish Joni was happier and more understanding of her standing among her fans and the world. I certainly understand that her irritation about being overlooked as a poet (although the forth-coming book might help). At the conclusion of Sheila Weller's book, I thought Joni might have found some peace and contentment. But some of her recent comments about contemporaries seems to suggest otherwise. And then there are Neil Strauss's comments. Perhaps she's working on that five volume autobiography and the opening old wounds causes renewed pain. Anyway, it's a long time since that wonderful Rowland Scherman photo of Joni and Judy in a treehouse which can be seen here: https://www.morrisonhotelgallery.com/photo/default.aspx?photographID=3688 One of the reasons for Judy Collins' comments is that "Cactus Tree" is on her new release, "Bohemian". For those unable to get the album, (it's not currently available for download on Amazon, iTunes or her Wildflowers records site), here is the duet of Collins and Shawn Colvin doing "Cactus Tree": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSQDr1LRwho On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Anita G wrote: > On 8 November 2011 16:03, Catherine McKay wrote: > > She doesn't call. She doesn't write. Yeesh! > > And she doesn't turn up to gigs to see people sing and play her songs > better than she did........... > Anita (feeling bitchy) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 06:43:31 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Dizzy's concert links Hi Lieve, I have copied the text of the review to Robin's website http://www.robinadler.com/press.html I wish you could have been there too, but there will be HD video of it for you to watch in the near future. Dave On Nov 9, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Lieve Reckers wrote: > Hi Dave, > the San Diego Reader review seems no longer available - or is that because it's only available in the States? > > In any case, the photos are great, and I'm so happy with your success! Wish I could have been there! > Lieve > > From: Dave Blackburn > To: "joni@smoe.org List" > Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011, 15:12 > Subject: Dizzy's concert links > > Here are two links from Sunday's show at Dizzy's where our full 8pc band > performed Blue and Court and Spark. Kakki, Lindsay, Steve and Roch were in the > front row so they can tell you more but we had a great night ourselves and > look forward to having the videos available to share soon. > > The San Diego Reader review is here: > http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/jam-session/2011/nov/07/joni-mitchell-t > ributesro-at-dizzys/ > > The photos by Sports photographer Dennis Andersen are here: > http://actionsportsphoto.smugmug.com/Music/ROBIN-ADLER-DAVE-BLACKBURN-1/19966 > 091_cX3B3T > > Happy birthday Joni! (she didn't come to the show although invited-no > surprises) > > Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 07:46:41 -0800 From: "Allison Crowe Music" Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" D'accord to all of Catherine's comments. Seeing Neil Strauss' name come up in this current conversation prompted my post. This is a shallow-celeb-centric writer who boasts about what he views as his own brilliance - using tricks he supposedly learned as a "pick-up artist" to get Britney Spears to warm to him. And, another self-claim to his own fame - he brought Lady Gaga to tears. No surprise that he'd not find any self-promotional benefit in his inability to similarly influence Joni Mitchell. Joni pegged that sort of character a long time earlier - the kind who "don't like strong women because they're hip to your tricks". Joni speaks the absolute truth about the popular music industry. (Even her most unpopular statements are rooted in fact eg. Bob Dylan IS a plagiarist.) That she doesn't humour, or accept, the fraudulent - the "style inventions" that are passed off as sing-songwriters today etc. - is to her credit. As for her personal interactions, as Catherine says, it's good to consider the source, and the context. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:05:42 -0800 From: CoyoteRick Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" I'm going out on a limb here. I have met Joni on a few occasions and will say she is far from difficult as a person. Very much on the contrary. I don't know her relationship with Ms Collins at all, but her comment makes me suspect of their closeness. If you have ever hung out with the gifted, from a certain perspective, one can assume they have opinions and a world view that may be different than your own. When one of these gifted becomes celebrated or wealthy, they may begin to have a much different world view based on their exacerbated exposure to our world. I think Joni's been suspicious of the press from early on in her career and her "crankiness or difficulty" may be derived from her frankly lackluster management of the media vis-a-vis her career health. Perhaps Ms. Collins has that on her mind as she surmises Joni's state of mind. Dunno. It was certainly a controversial statement to say the least and not responsible from my perspective. Part of me thinks Joni may be giving a wink and grin anyway. Mark, you are right - she owes us nothing. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 9, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "Mark" wrote: > I haven't had time to listen to this interview yet but I'm loving the reactions from Catherine, Terra et al. And Catherine's post made me think of the last Q & A from Cameron Crowe's interview with Joni for Rolling Stone, way back in 1979: > > Last question. What would you have listed, as Woody Allen did at the end of 'Manhattan,' as your reasons why life is worth living? > > It would be very similar to his. I would name different musicians, but it might finally be a beautiful face that would make me put the microphone down. I would just be thinking fondly of someone who I love, you know. And just dreaming of . . . Basically if you want to say it in one word? Happiness? > > It's a funny thing about happiness. You can strive and strive and strive to be happy, but happiness will sneak up on you in the most peculiar ways. I feel happy suddenly. I don't know why. Some days, the way the light strikes things. Or for some beautifully immature reason like finding myself running to the kitchen to make myself some toast. Happiness comes to me even on a bad day. In very, very strange ways. I'm very happy in my life right now. > > > I've always thought Joni was saying basically the same thing that Catherine said in her post. We can't be 100% happy 100% of the time. But, back in 1979 anyway, Joni seemed blessed with the ability to find happiness in small things. I like to think she still has flashes of those 'beautifully immature reason(s)' and that those moments are what keep her going. > > And I agree with Terra. She's given us so much over the years. She doesn't owe us anything. > > Mark in Seattle > > -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 3:05 PM > To: T Peckham ; Allison Crowe Music > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" > > Not that I know anything about it, so I have a lot of nerve to say so, but I > actually think Joni IS relatively happy, inasmuch as it's possible for anyone > to *be* happy. I think that we, or at least western cultures, are overly > concerned with being happy or up all the time. Even the American Declaration > of Independence includes a line about their rights including life, liberty and > the pursuit of happiness, and I think that modern-day Americans at least > forget about the pursuit part and are more concerned with the happiness and > that people mistake happiness for having everything your little ol' heart > desires and walking around with a permanent grin on your face just to prove it > to everyone else. But really, if someone was happy all the time, then they > really wouldn't be happy - they'd just be in a perpectual state of sameness > and wouldn't recognize happiness when it did come along. We're all in pursuit > of something and sometimes that something brings > happiness but often, we arrive at the place we think we want to be, only to > realize that now we want something else. And I think this is all part of the > human struggle and the fight between different poles and the quest for some > kind of equilibrium, except that once equilibrium has been reached, something > needs to happen to upset the balance again, and often we are the ones that > upset the balance, because we become bored with it. > > I think that Joni's > writing shows her to be a person who's always in search of something (looking > for something, what can it be?) and that for people who are seekers or on a > quest of some kind (and I have to think that anyone with even a bit of > intelligence is constantly on a quest for something, whether it's love, or > truth, or the perfect decorating scheme), then priorities will constantly > change. Then, try to reconcile that with some dude in a suit whose concern is > pushing product and the bottom line, and there's bound to be another conflict > and the possibility of losing a bit of your soul. > > I don't want to knock > anyone who wants Joni to be happy. We all want the people we love to be > happy. But the fact is, we have no idea whether she's happy or not. I'd like > to think that she is, much of the time, but that, like the rest of us, she > experiences the full range of emotions and that, in the end, she's probably > relatively happy, or satisfied, with the way things have turned out, but that > she has regrets about certain things too. And don't we all? Who wouldn't do > certain things differently if given the chance, or if we had some way of > knowing then what we know now? > > And other pseudo-philosophical bullshit of the > kind, but I think you will know what I mean. >> ________________________________ >> From: T Peckham >> To: Allison Crowe Music >> Cc: joni@smoe.org; > anima_rising@yahoo.ca >> Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 4:40:51 PM >> Subject: > Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" >> >> Oh, thank god! I've > been too busy (and was too angry, initially) to respond >> to this thread. Thank > you, Catherine, but especially Allison for providing >> much-needed perspective. > You covered Mr. Strauss (whose work and rep I too >> was familiar with) > beautifully. 'Nuf said about him and his ilk. >> >> I have to address another > point, tho, that I've been shutting up about for >> a while now. I don't > understand the concern on the part of some as to >> whether or not Ms. Mitchell > is "nice." Or happy. Or whether or not she has >> the right to choose what > events she attends and doesn't attend. Why does >> respect for her as an artist > seem to go completely out the window whenever >> it is perceived that she is not > behaving the way some would like her to? >> It's mind-boggling. It's like a > bunch of pseudo Myrtles out there, still, >> at this late date, disapproving of > her. >> >> As for Judy Collins' comments, I didn't hear anything mean-spirited in >> them. She stated the facts: Joni Mitchell IS a difficult woman. Most >> geniuses ARE "difficult." Ms. Collins seems to have made her peace with the >> "boundaries" Joni has put up, without going into a lot of hand-wringing >> over > the reasons. Accept it and move on. >> >> Ms. Mitchell (nor any other artist of > any kind, IMO) doesn't owe her fans a >> damned thing. She gave us the work. She > continues to give--thru whatever >> late works she chooses to share with us, and > with her continuing and >> growing influence--more than most. So she isn't a > warm and fuzzy sweet >> grandmotherly type. So she is perceived as not being > "happy." So what? It's >> nobody's bizness but her own. So wish her well, stop > expecting her to be a >> perfect human being (no such thing), and continue to > enjoy the art. >> >> Terra (not letting the door hit me too hard on the ass on my > way out) :-D >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Allison Crowe Music < >> management@allisoncrowe.com> wrote: >> >>> D'accord to all of Catherine's > comments. >>> >>> Seeing Neil Strauss' name come up in this current conversation > prompted my >>> post. This is a shallow-celeb-centric writer who boasts about > what he views >>> as his own brilliance - using tricks he supposedly learned as > a "pick-up >>> artist" to get Britney Spears to warm to him. And, another > self-claim to >>> his >>> own fame - he brought Lady Gaga to tears. No surprise > that he'd not find >>> any >>> self-promotional benefit in his inability to > similarly influence Joni >>> Mitchell. >>> >>> Joni pegged that sort of character > a long time earlier - the kind who >>> "don't >>> like strong women because > they're hip to your tricks". >>> >>> Joni speaks the absolute truth about the > popular music industry. (Even her >>> most unpopular statements are rooted in > fact eg. Bob Dylan IS a >>> plagiarist.) >>> That she doesn't humour, or accept, > the fraudulent - the "style inventions" >>> that are passed off as > sing-songwriters today etc. - is to her credit. As >>> for her personal > interactions, as Catherine says, it's good to consider the >>> source, and the > context. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> "An artist can show things that other people are > terrified of expressing." >> ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #318 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe