From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #296 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, October 20 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 296 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Trouble Child [Anita ] Re: Trouble Child ["Mark" ] Re: Trouble Child [Anita G ] RE: Trouble Child ["Robert Sartorius" ] Re: Trouble Child [Lc Stanley ] Re: Trouble Child [Robin Adler ] Re: Trouble Child [Bob Muller ] Good Friends Video [Joe Jones ] Re: Trouble Child [Robin Adler ] Malibu House... ["kbhla" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 16:33:07 +0100 From: Anita Subject: Re: Trouble Child Robin tea with you right now would be fabulous! And Laura,the feeding of the garden and the cherishing of those who meet here is something else we share.I guess we could all now sing "We are stardust, we are water'! Love Anita x Sent from my iPod On 20 Oct 2011, at 16:19, Robin Adler wrote: > Laura and Anita, > Wonderful exchange between you two and Mark. Can we get together this afternoon for some tea and just visit? I'll put the kettle on.... > > Robin > On Oct 20, 2011, at 7: > http://www.robinadler.com/products.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:11:07 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Trouble Child Robin, One thing that I left out of my email that occurred to me later: I know you will find the place inside you that will create beautiful renditions of this song in your future performances of it. I know you will nail it. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Robin Adler Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 5:48 PM To: Anita G Subject: Re: Trouble Child Beautifully written Anita. I think I'm getting close to being inside this tune and it's turning out to be one of my favorites. We had a great rehearsal today with Max and the other 7 band members. The level of musicianship is extraordinary. I am mostly struck by the integrity each individual brings to this project. I'm a lucky girl, I've found my band. Love, Robin On Oct 19, 2011, at 6:40 AM, Anita G wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:40:14 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Trouble Child As always, some fascinating analyses of 'Trouble Child' with some great insights and ideas about the symbolism. I certainly hadn't considered heraldic links. I have always been particularly struck by the numbers of images about water in 'Trouble Child'. The 'river of changing faces looking for an ocean', trickling through leaky plans, dreams over dams, plus the 'breaking' of both the waves and the 'patient.' Again, I am struck by the existential truth the song contains when Joni comments about the 'shock' of finding the truth of our isolation. Why does it comes as such a shock to know we really have no-one? Why,indeed. On a personal level, I have been in hospital twice in my life struggling with my depression, and the first time was in 1974 when, i think, I first hear C&S. The song sure sang lots for me, although fortunately I was never quite mad enough to think Joni had written it for me! However, the Doctors I saw often felt like vastly superior dragons and I certainly felt my 'right to be human' was going over the dam. Now I am older, I feel the truth about our isolation that Joni writes so well about in this song is tempered by the understanding that the people who trickle through all kind of plans can still be very,very close. We can still experience great connection with one another no matter how fleeting the contact and, of course, we can be blessed to have people in our lives who love us dearly and stick around. However, the truth of the fact that we are ultimately all alone is one of the most poignant aspects of 'Trouble Child' for me. 'We all come and go unknown' in so many ways. So, for me, both 'Hejira' and 'Trouble Child' are closing linked, being brilliant comments on existential truths. Robin, I know we will do a great job on this tune! Love Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:09:36 -0400 From: "Robert Sartorius" Subject: RE: Trouble Child Randy wrot: "I don't know what the hard evidence is, but I always think of Crosby when I hear it. Also the line "looking for an ocean"." This followed Kakki's "What makes it seem possible is the line "where is the lion in you to defy him when you're this weak and this spacey." Crosby is a Leo.On another note, both Crosby and Nash sang backround vocals on a few of the songs on Court & Spark." I had also thought that this was about Crosby, based on some reading (I am not clever enough to make this stuff up) - in my archived mental database I think I recall a story about Joni visiting Crosby when he was in an institution of some sort - rehab or otherwise. However, Sheila Weller, in "Girls Like Us" (a book whose research certainly appears to have been extensive) renders an account on pages 407-409 (paperback) that links Trouble Child to Joni's stay at a "residential think tank for therapists" following her "suicide attempt". The sequence reported in the book is that in late 1972, while Joni was involved with Jackson Browne, she rented an apartment in West Hollywood, on a hilly street between Santa Monica and Sunset. Things were going poorly between the two of them. Joni claimed that she got into a verbal argument with Browne, whom she felt had dissed her onstage, and that Browne had hit her. I infer that they did not break up immediately. Some time later, Browne interceded in a spat at the Troubadour on behalf of one Phyliis Major, whose boyfriend then threw a punch at Browne. This apparently won the fair maiden's heart (and Browne a trip home with her), and broke Joni's. One night after this incident, Joni waited all night at the apartment for Browne to arrive, but he didn't. This led to Joni's "suicide attempt" and the song "Car on a Hill". After the incident, on a recommendation from David Geffen, Joni went to the "think tank", where she got to pick the therapist she wanted. From this experience came the song "Trouble Child". Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 07:15:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Lc Stanley Subject: Re: Trouble Child Anita wrote: The things about water is that it can flow around obstacles and can find its own level, is both a cleanser and a healer. We feel it in every cell and it and can hold and support our often heavy bodies. The opposite is that water can stagnate, so the importance is in the quest to find balance. I have the email lawntreader here because I need more earth and less water, so I thought I'd better be on the ground/lawn having been far too emotional (watery) in life :~)) I love the song Dawntreader so much, but can get quite lost in the peridots, the galleons, blue medallions. High Anita, Wow... I love the way you talk about water here!! I'm teaching about the peripheral nervous system and bone and cartilage right now, and water is SO important to both. It is what gives cartilage in joints the ability to withstand compression. And water is an important component of the fluid around neurons that contains salt ready to rush into the long axons of neurons and move like electricity down an electric cord. We are water, and there is life on earth because of water. Where did the water on earth come from? Dihydrogen monoxide. It cover 2/3 of the earth, and only 2-3% is "fresh" water. Our blood is like salt water. When I think of water, I think of movement. It is in constant motion in our bodies and on earth where it circulates from gas to liquid to and from the sea and across the land. And then it is still in the icebergs. Some say water was made on earth, others say in space... either hydrogen in the atmosphere reacting with the oxides of the land or from "snow comets?" Some say it came from both. Interesting idea, water being "feeling" and land being "thinking." Yes, we need a balance. I couldn't help but think of the hissing of summer lawns with "lawntreader." When I think of hissing, I think of blowing steam out of one's mouth like the warm evaporation of water that comes off the hot lawn in the summer time. When we get angry, we heat up and need to let off some steam so they say. We have lots of steam, humidity, way down south in Dixie, but the people are mellow and don't hiss much. Thanks for giving me things to think about and watering my garden today. I always grow reading this list. I cherish you and everybody on this list. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 17:48:18 -0700 From: Robin Adler Subject: Re: Trouble Child Beautifully written Anita. I think I'm getting close to being inside this tune and it's turning out to be one of my favorites. We had a great rehearsal today with Max and the other 7 band members. The level of musicianship is extraordinary. I am mostly struck by the integrity each individual brings to this project. I'm a lucky girl, I've found my band. Love, Robin On Oct 19, 2011, at 6:40 AM, Anita G wrote: > As always, some fascinating analyses of 'Trouble Child' with some > great insights and ideas about the symbolism. I certainly hadn't > considered heraldic links. > > I have always been particularly struck by the numbers of images about > water in 'Trouble Child'. The 'river of changing faces looking for an > ocean', trickling through leaky plans, dreams over dams, plus the > 'breaking' of both the waves and the 'patient.' > > Again, I am struck by the existential truth the song contains when > Joni comments about the 'shock' of finding the truth of our isolation. > Why does it comes as such a shock to know we really have no-one? > Why,indeed. > > On a personal level, I have been in hospital twice in my life > struggling with my depression, and the first time was in 1974 when, i > think, I first hear C&S. The song sure sang lots for me, although > fortunately I was never quite mad enough to think Joni had written it > for me! However, the Doctors I saw often felt like vastly superior > dragons and I certainly felt my 'right to be human' was going over the > dam. > > Now I am older, I feel the truth about our isolation that Joni writes > so well about in this song is tempered by the understanding that the > people who trickle through all kind of plans can still be very,very > close. We can still experience great connection with one another no > matter how fleeting the contact and, of course, we can be blessed to > have people in our lives who love us dearly and stick around. However, > the truth of the fact that we are ultimately all alone is one of the > most poignant aspects of 'Trouble Child' for me. 'We all come and go > unknown' in so many ways. So, for me, both 'Hejira' and 'Trouble > Child' are closing linked, being brilliant comments on existential > truths. > > Robin, I know we will do a great job on this tune! > Love > Anita thanks, Robin - ------------------------------------------------- New CD available now! "Safaris to the Heart: The Songs of Joni Mitchell" by Robin Adler & Mutts of the Planet. To listen or learn more: http://www.reverbnation.com/robinadlermuttsoftheplanet To purchase: http://www.robinadler.com/products.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 16:58:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Trouble Child Hello sweet-a Anita! I have also enjoyed the discussion, thanks to Robin for kicking it off and everyone that contributed. I never made the connection with all of the water metaphors, so that was cool too. (And Mark, you DON'T go on too long; on the contrary, your analyses typically end too soon). The whole of C&S is multi-thematic I think, and one of the streams of theme running through it is mental health. People's Parties - I told you when I met you I was CRAZY Help Me - When I get this CRAZY feeling.... Just Like This Train - Jealous lovin' will make you CRAZY And then the bookends that conclude the album - Trouble Child and Twisted; one very heavy dealing with mental health issues and one very playful. As much as Hejira is my musical touchstone on any given day I'll call C&S my favorite Joni. Bob NP: Elton John, "First Episode at Hienton" ________________________________ From: Anita G To: Randy Remote Cc: Joni List Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 9:40 PM Subject: Re: Trouble Child As always, some fascinating analyses of 'Trouble Child' with some great insights and ideas about the symbolism. I certainly hadn't considered heraldic links. I have always been particularly struck by the numbers of images about water in 'Trouble Child'. The 'river of changing faces looking for an ocean', trickling through leaky plans, dreams over dams, plus the 'breaking' of both the waves and the 'patient.' Again, I am struck by the existential truth the song contains when Joni comments about the 'shock' of finding the truth of our isolation. Why does it comes as such a shock to know we really have no-one? Why,indeed. On a personal level, I have been in hospital twice in my life struggling with my depression, and the first time was in 1974 when, i think, I first hear C&S. The song sure sang lots for me, although fortunately I was never quite mad enough to think Joni had written it for me! However, the Doctors I saw often felt like vastly superior dragons and I certainly felt my 'right to be human' was going over the dam. Now I am older, I feel the truth about our isolation that Joni writes so well about in this song is tempered by the understanding that the people who trickle through all kind of plans can still be very,very close. We can still experience great connection with one another no matter how fleeting the contact and, of course, we can be blessed to have people in our lives who love us dearly and stick around. However, the truth of the fact that we are ultimately all alone is one of the most poignant aspects of 'Trouble Child' for me. 'We all come and go unknown' in so many ways. So, for me, both 'Hejira' and 'Trouble Child' are closing linked, being brilliant comments on existential truths. Robin, I know we will do a great job on this tune! Love Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 16:48:34 +0100 From: Joe Jones Subject: Good Friends Video Thanks Laura, Fantastic video which I hadn't seen before. Can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of the cog / ring ? on fire - and the cake ?. >> Joni in her Malibu home can be seen in her Good Friends Video (thanks to >> bob1bob's post in the Library) >> http://jonimitchell.com/library/video.cfm?id=114&from=search Cheers - Joe np - Girl At Her Volcano - Rickie Lee Jones On 19 October 2011 14:14, JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 19 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 360 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Photo & Trouble Child and Malibu Colony House connection [est86mlm@amerit] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 08:15:15 -0600 > From: est86mlm@ameritech.net > Subject: Photo & Trouble Child and Malibu Colony House connection > > This is an interesting discussion because for the last two weeks I had > been trying to find information and > photos of Joni's Malibu house and then the article from Malibu Mag and > the links with all the pictures shows up. > > Here's an interesting note from a Linda Ronstadt interview with Rolling > Stones Magazine, > where the author writes that Malibu Colony is referred to in Trouble > Child in Joni's song. > > I think of this line, the coming and going, of people moving in and out > of Malibu Colony in Malibu: > "a river of changing faces > Looking for an ocean" > > > LOS ANGELES- "Miss Ronstadt's line is busy. You'll have to wait. I gotta > check you." The beefy guard at the front gate of Malibu Colony waits and > dials again. Still busy. > > Twenty minutes later, the guard gives up and waves me through. "You > could be here all day," he cracks mirthlessly. > "But listen . . . if I don't hear from her within five minutes" . . . he > pauses for effect . . . "you'll meet the sheriffs. You don't want to > meet the sheriffs." > > The Colony. A tract of roomy beach houses strung along the Pacific 25 > miles north of Los Angeles. Considering the surroundings, it's not > surprising that Malibu has almost > always been inhabited by artists, though the enormous cost of > year-round, triple-security living makes it a select few at that. > > The Band built their studio here. Dylan, Neil Diamond and Eric Clapton > recorded here. Neil Young named Zuma after the Malibu community where he > lives. > Joni Mitchell refers to it in "Trouble Child" . . . and Linda Ronstadt > posed for the softly erotic cover of Hasten Down the Wind just outside > her picture window. > > http://www.theuncool.com/journalism/rs227-linda-ronstadt/ > > > In the book: Floor Sample: A Creative Memoir by Julia Cameron one gets > a sense of what Malibu Colony (where Joni lived) was like and the drama > going on there. *http://tinyurl.com/3t8jt3k > * > > Some food for thought. > > Here's a link to a photo of Joni painting in the Malibu Colony house > with the door opened out to sea: > http://www.corbisimages.com/images/DZ003089.jpg?size=67&uid=4ea29ccd-2752-441d-86bc-4f09cc81d3c6 > > This article mentions four homes in 1983. > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1629&from=search > > Joni in her Malibu home can be seen in her Good Friends Video (thanks to > bob1bob's post in the Library) > http://jonimitchell.com/library/video.cfm?id=114&from=search > > Laura > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2011 #360 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- - -- - -- Joe Jones +44 7831 914094 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:21:19 -0700 From: Robin Adler Subject: Re: Trouble Child Thank you Mark and everyone who has contributed their insight and a little bit of themselves to this discussion. Part of you will pour out of me on Nov. 6th. What dear people you are. Robin On Oct 19, 2011, at 6:11 PM, Mark wrote: > Robin, > > One thing that I left out of my email that occurred to me later: I know you will find the place inside you that will create beautiful renditions of this song in your future performances of it. > > I know you will nail it. > > Mark in Seattle > > -----Original Message----- From: Robin Adler > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 5:48 PM > To: Anita G > Subject: Re: Trouble Child > > Beautifully written Anita. I think I'm getting close to being inside this > tune and it's turning out to be one of my favorites. We had a great rehearsal > today with Max and the other 7 band members. The level of musicianship is > extraordinary. I am mostly struck by the integrity each individual brings to > this project. I'm a lucky girl, I've found my band. > > Love, > Robin > On Oct 19, 2011, at 6:40 AM, Anita G wrote: thanks, Robin - ------------------------------------------------- New CD available now! "Safaris to the Heart: The Songs of Joni Mitchell" by Robin Adler & Mutts of the Planet. To listen or learn more: http://www.reverbnation.com/robinadlermuttsoftheplanet To purchase: http://www.robinadler.com/products.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 11:34:22 -0700 From: "kbhla" Subject: Malibu House... Oh, I'm no fount of knowledge on Joni's properties! Sometime back in the late '90s I did a property search to see if the Laurel Canyon "Our House" was still around. I was a little surprised to find that it was still there, and by the description, in its original incarnation. Also surprised that the records indicated that Joni still owned it at that time. Several other properties with Joni's name came up in the search but there's no way to know whether it was the same Joni or someone else. It did look like she had some real estate investments but I recall they were not all in LA. I did not write down or keep any records of this search. I do recall a few years later that the L.A. Times had an article in their real estate section about a house Joni was selling in the Hollywood Hills and which seemed to indicate that Joni and a friend were buying, fixing up and then selling properties as a sideline. It sounds like she was a bit into the house "flipping" fad back then. Would loved to have see one of the flip houses from a Joni design standpoint ;-) Thanks for sharing the links on the Malibu beach house. I had thought that house was destroyed in the '88 storms here. I remember reading somewhere that the storm knocked out the windows and washed a lot of Joni's paintings out to sea. Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #296 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe