From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #292 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, October 18 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 292 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Troubled Child [Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com] Trouble Child ["kbhla" ] Awful Trip!!! [Randy Johnson ] New Library item: Bono, Lady Gaga salute Bill Clinton at Bowl bash [TheSt] Re: Happy Birthday Laura Nyro (October 18th) (LJC) [T Peckham ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:17:36 -0400 From: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Subject: Troubled Child I just finished learning Trouble Child for an upcoming Joni concert that we're doing and I'd like to get your input and insight into its meaning. I have my thoughts but I'd love to hear yours. I think it's a fantastic song on so many levels. I'm sure it has been discussed before and maybe you can refer me to a past discussion. My goal, as with all of her songs, is to get inside them as deeply as possible. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Be well my friends, Robin ====================================== Hi Robin Troubled Child is quite a mystery to me also. Never could understand all of the metaphors and symbolism in this song. What I can offer of my own take is the following. I think that the "sterilized room where they let you be lazy" is probably a psychiatric hospital room. This person is probably heavily sedated (she's weak and spacey) and has been this way for some time. She's has received countless periodic therapy / advice from family / friends/ shrinks, etc. (they open and close you - they talk like they know you) but no one ever really understood her (they don't know you) and but now her life has been reduced to lying in some hospitable room - and just trying to be human - maybe waiting to die- at least at the time of the song. Its significant that we have access to her thoughts and at the end of the song - the commentary - "Well some are going to knock you and some will try an' clock you - You know it's really hard to talk sense to you leads me to believe that someone external to her is making these observations and communicating them to her - perhaps at her bedside. I also find it somewhat revealing that the next song on the album is "Twisted". ================================================================== Separately, Sheila Weller in the book "Girls like Us" offers up the following:. After Joni's suicide attempt in which she reportedly took pills, cut herself, and threw herself repeatedly against a wall - she went to a "think tank" for therapists at the recommendation of David Geffen for help - and Joni wrote Troubled Child about this experience. In this song, every 14th beat supposedly mimics the effect of sedation. Weller comments that the inactivity and apathy of being depressed and sedated prevented joni from both giving and receiving love - even though she writes how badly she really needed it at the time. I hope that give you some small amount of insight.....Stewart . - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:52:24 -0700 From: "kbhla" Subject: Trouble Child Hi Robin, I recall that we did have extended discussions about Trouble Child here a long time ago. I had always thought that Joni was speaking personally in the song because it seemed to relate to her escaping to Canada in the early 70s to get away from the music business and get over her broken heart (James Taylor). She has spoken in interviews of that period in her life being dark and depressing but she eventually healed and came back to "the world" with the brilliant For The Roses album. However, there is another take on Trouble Child that I believed was discussed long ago. Somewhere it was revealed that Joni wrote the song about David Crosby, who was going through some hard core depression after the tragic death of his girlfriend, drug addiction and problems with the law during that time (and into the early 80s, too) and had been hospitalized at times. I know I've read this from an authoritative source and think it may have come from one of David's autobiographies or perhaps other CSN bios. At the time, many of Crosby's friends were trying to help him into recovery. I did a search on the articles/interviews with Joni on JM.com and it did not readily come up, so maybe it was from a Crosby related source. What makes it seem possible is the line "where is the lion in you to defy him when you're this weak and this spacey." Crosby is a Leo. On another note, both Crosby and Nash sang backround vocals on a few of the songs on Court & Spark. Maybe someone out there can shed more light on the meaning. I don't think there is a way to search the old smoe.org archives but there is lots of discussion of the song there. So happy to hear of your good groove with your "new" bandmate, too ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 06:03:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy Johnson Subject: Awful Trip!!! I am in a hurry writing this mail to you, I had travel led to UK for an urgent Meeting and unfortunately for me all my money was stolen at the hotel where I lodged. Thank God i still have my passport with me to go the embassy I am so confused right now, I don't know what to do or where to go. I didn't bring my phones here and the hotel telephone lines were disconnected during the robbery incident. So I have access to only emails. Please can you send me $1,750 today so I can return home. As soon as I get home I would refund it immediately. Please I need you to get back to me so I can let you know how to send the money to me. I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Randy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 09:39:49 -0600 (MDT) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New Library item: Bono, Lady Gaga salute Bill Clinton at Bowl bash Title: Bono, Lady Gaga salute Bill Clinton at Bowl bash Publication: The Orange County Register Date: 2011.10.16 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2439 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:38:17 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Laura Nyro (October 18th) (LJC) No apologies needed for me! I have seen this once before, and it's a treasure. I would have completely forgotten to look for it again were it not for your alert. THANK YOU!! And even tho it may seem to some a dubious honor, let's hope the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame finally gets it right and votes Laura in this year. (I really think Joan Jett and the other nominees can wait a little longer . . .) ;-) Terra On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Gary Z. wrote: > I know many of you may have seen this before, but I always see something > new in it, I guess because it is so rare. In honor of Laura Nyro's > birthday tomorrow, I'm sending along this video that appears to only be > available today and tomorrow, so if you love her, like her, or are just > curious, have a look at this wonderful woman we've lost. She's one of > the few artists that Joni always spoke favorably of. I apologize in > advance for those who may not appreciate the little Joni content in this > message! > > > http://www.myspace.com/video/laurishkan/one-day-only/108270114#pm_cmp=O_5102_notif > > > Happy Birthday, Laura! We love you and miss you! > > Gary Z. > Detroit > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:26:39 -0400 From: "Gary Z." Subject: Happy Birthday Laura Nyro (October 18th) (LJC) I know many of you may have seen this before, but I always see something new in it, I guess because it is so rare. In honor of Laura Nyro's birthday tomorrow, I'm sending along this video that appears to only be available today and tomorrow, so if you love her, like her, or are just curious, have a look at this wonderful woman we've lost. She's one of the few artists that Joni always spoke favorably of. I apologize in advance for those who may not appreciate the little Joni content in this message! http://www.myspace.com/video/laurishkan/one-day-only/108270114#pm_cmp=O_5102_notif Happy Birthday, Laura! We love you and miss you! Gary Z. Detroit ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:28:48 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: New Library item: Court and Light It is interesting that Zillow.com estimates the market value of the home as almost $4 million. According to zillow, this house was taken off the market in 2009 after it failed to sell for $14.9 million ... what were the owners thinking!! With the mortgage/credit crisis, even Joni Mitchell's home was not going to sell for that much!! Haha!! I remember the photo of her painting in this house with a broken leg. Does anyone have the link to that photo? Take care, Sue - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:27 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: New Library item: Court and Light Title: Court and Light Publication: Malibu Magazine Date: 2011.11. http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2437 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 21:02:03 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Trouble Child Crosby popped into my mind, Kakki, and it is probably because, as you mentioned, his name came up in other discussions of this song. I've always felt there was more empathy in the song than lecturing even though the final line before the repeated 'trouble child breaking like the waves at Malibu' is 'you know it's really hard to talk sense to you'. Even though Joni is addressing the subject of the song in the 2nd person 'you', she seems to be seeing things from that subject's point of view. There was no Betty Ford Center at the time the song was written and I'm not sure the term 'rehab ' had entered the vernacular yet. It seems obvious that this person is in some kind of medical/psychiatric/institutional type of setting - 'up in a sterilized room where they let you be lazy.' Not exactly a comforting or comfortable place to be. Whether it be substance abuse or severe depression he (I think the lines 'the peacock is afraid to parade, you're under the thumb of the maid' and the reference to the lion that Kakki pointed out indicate that the song is about a male) has reached a breaking point. He may be weak and spacey from exhaustion following detox or he could be doing the 'Thorazine Shuffle'. He's feeling powerless, unable to confront his demons or the authority-controlled situation that he sees himself in, 'the dragon shining with all values known, dazzling you keeping you from your own.' The peacock being under the thumb of the maid maybe feels somewhat emasculated as well. Those lines always make me think of Nurse Ratched in 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'. This guy is lost and can't admit it or find his own way although he knows his 'attitude's all wrong'. But, as the song says, change in a person's attitude, patterns of thought and behavior aren't easy. The man's outlook is self-defeating and bleak. Life seems unbearable but, even if he has self-destructive tendencies, he is incapable of making a deliberate attempt to end it. He doesn't trust his care-givers or those treating him. 'They open and close you and they talk like they know you. They don't know you. They're friends and they're foes too.' There is no comfort in spiritual guidance of the religious variety since he 'can't seem to believe it'. He is jolted by the feeling that none of his personal relationships are permanent or meaningful - 'only a river of changing faces looking for an ocean'. That river of faces seems to trickle through his 'leaky plans', taking yet 'another dream over the dam' and he feels like his 'right to be human is going over too'. In his head, the words 'you know it's really hard to talk sense to you' are the ineffective words of a scolding parent to a 'trouble child'. Something he has heard some version of for most of his life. Waves are regular and repetitive. That suggests to me either relapses into substance abuse or recurring incidents of mental breakdown that have become almost predictable in their regularity. But I've never been sure about that. 'Breaking like the waves at Malibu' could mean so many different things. The choice of the word 'trouble' as opposed to 'troubled' is interesting to me. Apparently the subject is viewed as trouble as opposed to being troubled. It occurs to me that if Joni is implying that the subject of the song has always been made to feel this way about himself - that is he is trouble - it puts a more sympathetic spin on the song. If she is saying that the guy's behavior is that of a child always causing trouble and pain in the lives of those close to him, the lyric could very well be a good dashing of cold water in his face. Mark in Seattle going on too long as always - -----Original Message----- From: kbhla Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 3:52 PM To: robinadler@sbcglobal.net ; 'Joni List' Subject: Trouble Child Hi Robin, I recall that we did have extended discussions about Trouble Child here a long time ago. I had always thought that Joni was speaking personally in the song because it seemed to relate to her escaping to Canada in the early 70s to get away from the music business and get over her broken heart (James Taylor). She has spoken in interviews of that period in her life being dark and depressing but she eventually healed and came back to "the world" with the brilliant For The Roses album. However, there is another take on Trouble Child that I believed was discussed long ago. Somewhere it was revealed that Joni wrote the song about David Crosby, who was going through some hard core depression after the tragic death of his girlfriend, drug addiction and problems with the law during that time (and into the early 80s, too) and had been hospitalized at times. I know I've read this from an authoritative source and think it may have come from one of David's autobiographies or perhaps other CSN bios. At the time, many of Crosby's friends were trying to help him into recovery. I did a search on the articles/interviews with Joni on JM.com and it did not readily come up, so maybe it was from a Crosby related source. What makes it seem possible is the line "where is the lion in you to defy him when you're this weak and this spacey." Crosby is a Leo. On another note, both Crosby and Nash sang backround vocals on a few of the songs on Court & Spark. Maybe someone out there can shed more light on the meaning. I don't think there is a way to search the old smoe.org archives but there is lots of discussion of the song there. So happy to hear of your good groove with your "new" bandmate, too ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #292 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe