From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #209 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, July 28 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 209 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- "Legends of the Canyon" [Lindsay Moon ] Edith and the Kingpin - last few lines [Anita G ] Re: Edith and the Kingpin - last few lines [Catherine McKay Subject: "Legends of the Canyon" I am in the middle of watching this now. It is really amazing and great to hear all the stories. What a wonderful time! Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:17:48 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Edith and the Kingpin - last few lines Although I am still feeling quite hurt by Vince's post at the week-end, I thought I should get over it and post something to do with one of the things that binds me/us here, Joni's music. Whilst I was on holiday, I found myself listening to Stryng's very English version of 'Edith and the Kingpin' (from the fundraiser for Joni.com), and it sent me to listening to Joni's original and the Herbie Hancock/Tina Turner versions. I was very struck by the lyric and the different interpretations and really honed in on the final lines that say: "Edith and the Kingpin Each with charm to sway Are staring eye to eye They dare not look away You know they dare not look away" I began to think about what would happen if Edith or the Kingpin DID look away. What would happen? What would they see? What would their experience be? In my mind, I envisage two cobras almosy hypnotised by each other (charm to sway). If one looks away, will the other strike? Or maybe all 'tired faces' who have been gently lifted to the spoon would be appear to them both, vividly. It's such a brilliant lyric, so much about power and relationships, I wondered if anyone else had thoughts about these final lines and what images they evoked. Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:08:44 -0500 From: LC Stanley Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin - last few lines Hi Anita, I always thought the last line implied they would lose some of the intensity between the if they looked away... kind of like "milk blood to keep from running out" in Neil Young's song Needle and the Damage Done. Your question reminds me of how much I love her line, "his left hand holds his right, what can that hand desire that he grips it so tight?" It is provokes a similar question and is a line that keeps playing in my head with imagined visuals long after the song is done. Love, Laura On Jul 27, 2011, at 11:17 AM, Anita G wrote: > Although I am still feeling quite hurt by Vince's post at the > week-end, I thought I should get over it and post something to do with > one of the things that binds me/us here, Joni's music. > > Whilst I was on holiday, I found myself listening to Stryng's very > English version of 'Edith and the Kingpin' (from the fundraiser for > Joni.com), and it sent me to listening to Joni's original and the > Herbie Hancock/Tina Turner versions. I was very struck by the lyric > and the different interpretations and really honed in on the final > lines that say: > > "Edith and the Kingpin > Each with charm to sway > Are staring eye to eye > They dare not look away > You know they dare not look away" > > I began to think about what would happen if Edith or the Kingpin DID > look away. What would happen? What would they see? What would their > experience be? In my mind, I envisage two cobras almosy hypnotised by > each other (charm to sway). If one looks away, will the other strike? > Or maybe all 'tired faces' who have been gently lifted to the spoon > would be appear to them both, vividly. It's such a brilliant lyric, so > much about power and relationships, I wondered if anyone else had > thoughts about these final lines and what images they evoked. > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:17:09 -0400 From: David Lahm Subject: Edith...ending Maybe it's a staring contest; whoever looks away first confesses weakness. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:27:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin - last few lines I like your take on this. I imagine them having to stare eye-to-eye because, if they break contact with one another, the other could strike. It's kind of how two cats facing off against one another will keep their eyes glued on each other, in order to avoid a slash across the face. I never considered the fact that "charm" could be a subtle reference to snake-charming, so good call on that. I tend to have fairly nebulous views on word meanings a lot of the time, so it's all kind of impressionistic and unfocussed for me a lot of the time (maybe my crappy eyesight is to blame for that!) I think of their charm as being something that could sway other people's opinions, so that each one could be capable of charming others into taking their side on things. I always see the kingpin as some kind of gangster type in a fancy suit (I always visualize something from old-school gangster movies, so he's wearing a pinstripe suit and a fancy hat and he talks kind of Jimmy Cagney-you-dirty-rat-like. I see him surrounded by an entourage of cronies ready to do his bidding so, if Edith were to try anything (she's wearing an evening dress of some kind, some kind of off-the-shoulder thing in red), they'd jump right in and deal with her. Of course, in a case of a gangster with his gang, it's less his actual charm, I suppose, than his power, or maybe it's kind of the same thing in the end. Edith, being an attractive woman, might have the possibility of charming the gangster-cronies into taking her side, though, and toppling the kingpin from power, so he still has to be wary of her. As well, if either of them were to look away, they might realize that there are other things out there besides their lust for drugs and power, but maybe they don't want to know about that. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Anita G > To: jonipeople LIST > Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 12:17:48 PM > Subject: Edith and the Kingpin - last few lines > > Whilst I was on holiday, I found myself listening to Stryng's very > English version of 'Edith and the Kingpin' (from the fundraiser for > Joni.com), and it sent me to listening to Joni's original and the > Herbie Hancock/Tina Turner versions. I was very struck by the lyric > and the different interpretations and really honed in on the final > lines that say: > > "Edith and the Kingpin > Each with charm to sway > Are staring eye to eye > They dare not look away > You know they dare not look away" > > I began to think about what would happen if Edith or the Kingpin DID > look away. What would happen? What would they see? What would their > experience be? In my mind, I envisage two cobras almosy hypnotised by > each other (charm to sway). If one looks away, will the other strike? > Or maybe all 'tired faces' who have been gently lifted to the spoon > would be appear to them both, vividly. It's such a brilliant lyric, so > much about power and relationships, I wondered if anyone else had > thoughts about these final lines and what images they evoked. > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:50:09 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin - last few lines There is such intensity in so much of the song, isn't there? I hadn't made that connections Laura, with the loss of intensity if they looked away. That's an interesting take. And I warm to your idea, Catherine, that if they looked away they might see other things besides their lust for drugs and power. You old romantic,you! Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:26:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin - last few lines Hey y'all, I don't have much to add, other than the pleasure of waking up and seeing such intelligent discussion. Catherine, you pretty much summed up my thoughts. This is one of Joni's finest works, musically and lyrically, so many images. And to think that the simple phrase "they dare not look away" could generate paragraphs of thought. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:15:11 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin - last few lines Catherine McKay wrote: I like your take on this. I imagine them having to stare eye-to-eye because, if they break contact with one another, the other could strike. It's kind of how two cats facing off against one another will keep their eyes glued on each other, in order to avoid a slash across the face. Now me: Consider this in conjunction with the line 'the man with the diamond ring is purring/all claws for now withdrawn'. There is an implication there of a dangerous, feline animal like a tiger that could easily deal a painful, injurious swipe. Catherine again: As well, if either of them were to look away, they might realize that there are other things out there besides their lust for drugs and power, but maybe they don't want to know about that. Now me: You may be on to something here, Catherine. I think there is lustful a desire to possess on the Kingpin's part. With Edith, there is an irresistible attraction to something dangerous and forbidden. 'She says "His crime belongs"'. And David Lahm wrote: Maybe it's a staring contest; whoever looks away first confesses weakness. Me again: I don't think I ever stopped to think about a specific meaning for the line in question but what David wrote is what I suspect has always been under the surface of my understanding of it. Now I think that any one of the connotations put forward by Anita, Catherine, Laura and David are all possible. And I agree with Catherine. Anita's image of two cobras and the association with snake charming is brilliant! Mark in Seattle - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Anita G > To: jonipeople LIST > Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 12:17:48 PM > Subject: Edith and the Kingpin - last few lines > > Whilst I was on holiday, I found myself listening to Stryng's very > English version of 'Edith and the Kingpin' (from the fundraiser for > Joni.com), and it sent me to listening to Joni's original and the > Herbie Hancock/Tina Turner versions. I was very struck by the lyric > and the different interpretations and really honed in on the final > lines that say: > > "Edith and the Kingpin > Each with charm to sway > Are staring eye to eye > They dare not look away > You know they dare not look away" > > I began to think about what would happen if Edith or the Kingpin DID > look away. What would happen? What would they see? What would their > experience be? In my mind, I envisage two cobras almosy hypnotised by > each other (charm to sway). If one looks away, will the other strike? > Or maybe all 'tired faces' who have been gently lifted to the spoon > would be appear to them both, vividly. It's such a brilliant lyric, so > much about power and relationships, I wondered if anyone else had > thoughts about these final lines and what images they evoked. > Anita ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #209 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe