From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #179 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, June 29 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 179 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Scarlett [Rob Steen ] Joni in China! [Bob Muller ] Re: Joni in China! [Bob Muller ] Re: Joni in China! ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Scarlett ["Mark" ] Re: Scarlett [David Phillips ] Re: Joni in China! [Bob Muller ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 04:03:12 -0400 From: Rob Steen Subject: Re: Scarlett I'd heard the Ronee B story before but paid no heed. "Scarlett", for me at least, always has been and always will be Ms O'Hara. To these ears, needless to add, SOSQ remains as hauntingly beautiful as anything Joni has ever written. Love Rob Rob Steen Mobile 07813 668726 Website: Bodacious.com - http://sites.google.com/site/bodaciouscom/B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:34:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Joni in China! So last night I was out to dinner with a couple of colleagues at Solana, a big shopping/dining/night life mall location, and after dinner we wandered across the street to Nashville, a live music bar. I've been there twice before last night and the music is of a high caliber, not just karaoke versions of Abba songs and such. Plus, you can actually get SERVICE as opposed to most Chinese restaurants where you have to track down a server and beg for stuff. The guy playing at Nashville (a Filipino named Chris) was a really good guitarist and he was playing an instrumental version of "Bohemian Rhapsody" as we walked in followed by Dire Straits' "Romeo & Juliet". I was impressed, and I really lit up when he broke into Big Yellow Taxi. Being a Tuesday night, the crowd was small and when I hollered out "Joni!" after the song he looked over and smiled. At the end of the set he came over and sat down (it didn't hurt that I was with 2 pretty Asian girls) and we started talking music which was REALLY great since I feel so musically isolated here. It seems that he knows Joni and plays 3-4 of her tunes (the usual suspects), and he kicked off his next set with a nice original arrangement of Woodstock - reminded me of Dave Matthews in terms of vocal and guitar style. Anyway, it was very refreshing and made me that much more anxious to get back to the garden with everyone in August. Bob NP: ELO, "Showdown" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:51:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni in China! OK, let me rephrase this...Chris doesn't KNOW Joni, he's familiar with her music. I give him credit for not introducing Woodstock as a CSNY song. Bob NP: CCR, "Sweet Hitchhiker" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:28:40 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Joni in China! joniversal (adj): having Joni Mitchell as a common denominator Cool story, Bob. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:49:22 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Scarlett Well here's my 2 cents, for what it's worth. (2 cents?) I've read the Ronee Blakely theory as well and never really bought into it. Although, besides her role in 'Nashville', I don't really know much of anything about Ronee Blakely. So what do I know? GWTW's Scarlet O'Hara certainly seems to be one of the models for Joni's character. Out of the fire (the burning of Atlanta), the mention of Gable in the song, plantations and sweeping ballroom gowns - that all fits Scarlet O'Hara Hamilton Kennedy Butler. The song is called '*Shades of* Scarlet Conquering' however, which to me suggests that the woman in the song is *like* Scarlet O'Hara in some ways. She mimics 'tenderness she sees in sentimental movies.' This is a 20th century character. I always thought she was an ambitious wannabe movie star. I've also read that Vivien Leigh was quite a bit like her character in GWTW and I don't know how much of that I buy either. Ms. Leigh suffered from bi-polar disorder which might tie into the 'beauty and madness to be praised' line in the song. But I still maintain that the character and the actress are two different things. Similar, maybe, but not the same. When I was thinking about it today it suddenly struck me that Joni's subject is also quite a bit like Eve Harrington in 'All About Eve'. If you're familiar with that movie, think about it. Joni likes to watch old movies so I think Eve might be in the mix as well. As for Barbra Jean in 'Nashville', the speculation at the time of the movie's release was that she was based on Loretta Lynn. If you've ever seen 'Coal Miner's Daughter', you will remember that Loretta hit a rough patch and collapsed on stage at a point when she felt like 'my life has been going too fast'. Too much touring, too little sleep, maybe a pill habit if I remember it right. But in the long run, I think Ms. Lynn has proven that she is made of pretty strong stuff and not so emotionally fragile. I also seem to remember seeing Loretta quoted somewhere as saying 'I'd rather see Bambi' in reference to the movie 'Nashville'. I think it was the lines 'cast iron and frail/with her impossibly gentle hands/and her blood red fingernails' that Elvis Costello quoted as being lyrics that any songwriter would kill to be able to come up with just once (or words to that effect) and that 'Shades of Scarlet Conquering' was full of lines equally as good. I whole-heartedly agree with him. This is Joni at her best. And don't get me started on the lyrics in the entire album 'Hejira'. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: David J. Phillips Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:25 PM To: Gerald Notaro ; Michel BYRNE Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Scarlett as i recall, an acclaimed biography of Vivien Leigh was published the year before hosl was released, the gist of which was that Vivien *was* scarlett. I've always thought that that was one of the many inspirations of "shades..." And there are few finer songs in the jm catalogue, if you ask me. djp Gerald Notaro wrote: I would believe none of it. I have worked with Ronee, and she is nothing like the woman in the song, and not nearly interesting enough to even catch Joni's attention. She could never have been the inspiration of such a complex and "shaded" character. Jerry On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Michel BYRNE wrote: > Hi guys, please don't read this if you hate having Joni song-characters > identified simplistically as real persons! > > I just came across a comment on Shades of Scarlett Conquering in a Dylan > biography (either Howard Sounes 'Down the Highway' or maybe a newly revised > biog by Clinton Heylin - sorry, I was only browsing in a bookstore!). The > author states categorically, as if it was an undisputed fact, that Scarlett > was a portrait of actress/singer Ronee Blakley, who was on Dylan's Rolling > Thunder Revue. Has anyone ever heard this suggested/confirmed? > I'm sceptical, partly because of the simplistic analysis that Scarlett = > one > p! erson only, but also because the research seems a bit slapdash - the > author > spells Ronee B's name wrong (Blakely) and misnames the character she played > in > Robert Altman film 'Nashville' ('Norma Jean' instead of 'Barbara Jean'). > That > said, though, many people have remarked on how cinematic SOSC is, and > knowing > Joni's use of films as inspiration for other songs, I do wonder if the > Barbara > Jean character could be behind Scarlett (rather than Ronee B herself), if > 'Nashville' came out early enough in 1975 for Joni to write her song in > time > for HOSL. The film character is described as 'hyper-feminine and > emotionally > fragile' in a Wikipedia review... Does this strike a chord with anybody > who's > seen Nashville, or has anyone heard this claim before? > Best wishes to all > Michel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:16:27 -0400 From: David Phillips Subject: Re: Scarlett not only that, but i just checked and the leigh biography was 1977. hosl was 75. though surely scarlett is a reference to gwtw. djp Mark wrote: > Well here's my 2 cents, for what it's worth. (2 cents?) > > I've read the Ronee Blakely theory as well and never really bought > into it. Although, besides her role in 'Nashville', I don't really > know much of anything about Ronee Blakely. So what do I know? > > GWTW's Scarlet O'Hara certainly seems to be one of the models for > Joni's character. Out of the fire (the burning of Atlanta), the > mention of Gable in the song, plantations and sweeping ballroom gowns > - that all fits Scarlet O'Hara Hamilton Kennedy Butler. > > The song is called '*Shades of* Scarlet Conquering' however, which to > me suggests that the woman in the song is *like* Scarlet O'Hara in > some ways. She mimics 'tenderness she sees in sentimental movies.' > This is a 20th century character. I always thought she was an > ambitious wannabe movie star. > > I've also read that Vivien Leigh was quite a bit like her character in > GWTW and I don't know how much of that I buy either. Ms. Leigh > suffered from bi-polar disorder which might tie into the 'beauty and > madness to be praised' line in the song. But I still maintain that > the character and the actress are two different things. Similar, > maybe, but not the same. > > When I was thinking about it today it suddenly struck me that Joni's > subject is also quite a bit like Eve Harrington in 'All About Eve'. > If you're familiar with that movie, think about it. Joni likes to > watch old movies so I think Eve might be in the mix as well. > > As for Barbra Jean in 'Nashville', the speculation at the time of the > movie's release was that she was based on Loretta Lynn. If you've > ever seen 'Coal Miner's Daughter', you will remember that Loretta hit > a rough patch and collapsed on stage at a point when she felt like 'my > life has been going too fast'. Too much touring, too little sleep, > maybe a pill habit if I remember it right. > > But in the long run, I think Ms. Lynn has proven that she is made of > pretty strong stuff and not so emotionally fragile. > > I also seem to remember seeing Loretta quoted somewhere as saying 'I'd > rather see Bambi' in reference to the movie 'Nashville'. > > I think it was the lines 'cast iron and frail/with her impossibly > gentle hands/and her blood red fingernails' that Elvis Costello quoted > as being lyrics that any songwriter would kill to be able to come up > with just once (or words to that effect) and that 'Shades of Scarlet > Conquering' was full of lines equally as good. I whole-heartedly > agree with him. This is Joni at her best. > > And don't get me started on the lyrics in the entire album 'Hejira'. > > Mark in Seattle > > -----Original Message----- From: David J. Phillips > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:25 PM > To: Gerald Notaro ; Michel BYRNE > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Scarlett > > as i recall, an acclaimed biography of Vivien Leigh was published the > year before hosl was released, the gist of which was that Vivien *was* > scarlett. I've always thought that that was one of the many > inspirations of "shades..." And there are few finer songs in the jm > catalogue, if you ask me. > > djp > > > Gerald Notaro wrote: > > I would believe none of it. I have worked with Ronee, and she is > nothing like the woman in the song, and not nearly interesting enough > to even catch Joni's attention. She could never have been the > inspiration of such a complex and "shaded" character. Jerry On Mon, > Jun 27, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Michel BYRNE wrote: > > Hi guys, please don't read this if you hate having Joni > song-characters > identified simplistically as real persons! > > I > just came across a comment on Shades of Scarlett Conquering in a Dylan > > biography (either Howard Sounes 'Down the Highway' or maybe a newly > revised > biog by Clinton Heylin - sorry, I was only browsing in a > bookstore!). The > author states categorically, as if it was an > undisputed fact, that Scarlett > was a portrait of actress/singer > Ronee Blakley, who was on Dylan's Rolling > Thunder Revue. Has anyone > ever heard this suggested/confirmed? > I'm sceptical, partly because > of the simplistic analysis that Scarlett = > one > p! > erson > only, but also because the research seems a bit slapdash - the > > author > spells Ronee B's name wrong (Blakely) and misnames the > character she played > in > Robert Altman film 'Nashville' ('Norma > Jean' instead of 'Barbara Jean'). > That > said, though, many people > have remarked on how cinematic SOSC is, and > knowing > Joni's use of > films as inspiration for other songs, I do wonder if the > Barbara > > Jean character could be behind Scarlett (rather than Ronee B herself), > if > 'Nashville' came out early enough in 1975 for Joni to write her > song in > time > for HOSL. The film character is described as > 'hyper-feminine and > emotionally > fragile' in a Wikipedia review... > Does this strike a chord with anybody > who's > seen Nashville, or has > anyone heard this claim before? > Best wishes to all > Michel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:03:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni in China! Joniversal..I like it! - ----- Original Message ---- From: Randy Remote To: Joni Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 9:28:40 AM Subject: Re: Joni in China! joniversal (adj): having Joni Mitchell as a common denominator Cool story, Bob. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #179 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe