From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #135 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, May 16 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 135 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: delusional diseases and drugs [Anita G ] Joni married again??!! [est86mlm@ameritech.net] Re: delusional diseases and drugs [Lc Stanley ] Re: Happy 35th Birthday Hejira [carmel rotem ] Re: Happy 35th Birthday Hejira [Gerald Notaro ] Re: Happy 35th Birthday Hejira [Dan Olson ] Re: delusional diseases and drugs [Anita G ] Re: Happy 35th Birthday Hejira [Anita ] Re: delusional diseases and drugs [Catherine McKay ] Re: delusional diseases and drugs [Anita G ] Re: delusional diseases and drugs [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Happy 35th Birthday Hejira [Bob Muller ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:11:23 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: delusional diseases and drugs I read last year this most brilliant book 'Mad, Bad and Sad. A History of Women and the Mind Doctors from 1800 to the present' by Lisa Appiagnanesi. I would highly recommend it to all interested in mental health. It brilliantly looks at the fads in mental health, the names that come and go for manifestations of the behaviours of those who may be suffering. Here is the blurb that goes with the book: "From the depression suffered by Virginia Woolf and Sylvia Plath to the mental anguish and addictions of iconic beauties Zelda Fitzgerald and Marilyn Monroe. From Thiroigne de Miricourt, the Fury of the Gironde, who descended from the bloody triumphs of the French Revolution to untameable insanity in La Salpetrihre asylum, to Mary Lamb, sister of Charles, who in the throes of a nervous breakdown turned on her mother with a kitchen knife. From Freud and Jung and the radical breakthroughs of psychoanalysis to Lacans construction of a modern movement and the new women-centred therapies. This is the story of how we have understood extreme states of mind over the last two hundred years and how we conceive of them today, when more and more of our inner life and emotions have become a matter for medics and therapists. Winner of the MJA Award, Short-listed for the Warwick, Mind and Duff-Cooper Prizes. 'The triumph of Mad, Bad and Sad is to mix evocative case studies with potted histories of the great and good of psychology and psychiatry... an intelligent and academically rigorous study.' - Observer" Not a joyful read, but a fascinating one and brilliantly researched. It gives a very wide perspective on our struggle to understand ourselves and others, Love Anita xx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 06:38:57 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: Joni married again??!! Hi Walt, I'm also interested in that article you originally found, if you are able to find it again or any information you can come up with from a "well-informed, gossipy rabbit.." LOL Laura Walt Breen wrote: > Hey, Laura, > > Thanks for the links to Chuck and Larry. I was aware of them, as well > of the more important boyfriends over the years, up through Don Freed > (mid-90's); but this was a very recent article, and it described her > companion as her husband, almost certainly incorrectly. I'm trying to > find the article again to at least get the name; hoping to fall down > the same google hole again, or at least find a well-informed, gossipy > rabbit... > > Until then, > > Walt "Little" Breen > > Well, I'm learning it's peaceful > With a good dog and some trees > Out of touch with the breakdown > Of this century > We're not gonna fix that up > Too easy > (Joni Mitchell, "Electricity", 1972) > > Let the walls come tumbling down > Let them fall right on the ground > Let all the dogs go running free > The wild and the gentle dogs > Kenneled in me > (Joni Mitchell, Jericho, 1974) > Visit my website: _www.learninginsights.info_ > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 06:11:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Lc Stanley Subject: Re: delusional diseases and drugs Hi Monika, Very cool. I am of the opinion that chemical dependency is a mental illness all of its own. Despite the training in medical neuroscience I've had (MS, PhD), I've found the best place to learn about chemical dependency is AA. There are open meetings for those who aren't addicts but want to learn about the disease. Addiction to alcohol and other drugs can mimic various mental illnesses so it is not unusual for addicts to be chemically treated as depressed, bipolar, schizophrenic, etc. when they aren't and end up not being able to get sober and gain sanity. Love, Laura ________________________________ Monika wrote: Thanks. I'll definitely check that out. I'm also hoping I make a difference as I just started working full time as a case manager where I'll be helping people with mental illness and/or chemical dependency problems. I just started last week. - -M - --- On Sat, 5/14/11, LC Stanley wrote: If you want a concrete way to make a difference, check out www.nami.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 07:14:46 -0700 (PDT) From: carmel rotem Subject: Re: Happy 35th Birthday Hejira Hi all, I'm new to the list, been reading and enjoying it for the past few months now, and didn't really find the way to "fit in" with my own post. I decided to take this opportunity to write my own Hejira experience. I started to listen to Joni in highschool (which, I must edmit, wasn't so long ago). starting from C&S, LOTC, and a bit later Clouds and Blue. I was immediately caught in the Joni magic, and wanted to hear more of hers. then I bought Hejira. and I didn't feel that same magic, I was a bit disappointed. I rediscovered it while backpacking in South America. I was traveling for 5 months, and had my i-pod with me, and there, away from home in my own "hejira", it caught me, and it caught me hard... couldn't stop listening to that album, which is one of my favourites since. that's my story, Carmel. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:47:33 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Happy 35th Birthday Hejira Welcome, Carmel, I'm glad that though you are much younger than I ( I must admit is WAS long ago) you had the same experience. The importamt thing is we find Hejira when we most need it :-) Jerry On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 10:14 AM, carmel rotem wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm new to the list, been reading and enjoying it for the past few months > now, > and didn't really find the way to "fit in" with my own post. > I decided to take this opportunity to write my own Hejira experience. > I started to listen to Joni in highschool (which, I must edmit, wasn't so > long > ago). > starting from C&S, LOTC, and a bit later Clouds and Blue. I was > immediately > caught in the Joni magic, and wanted to hear more of hers. > then I bought Hejira. and I didn't feel that same magic, I was a bit > disappointed. > > I rediscovered it while backpacking in South America. I was traveling for 5 > months, and had my i-pod with me, and there, away from home in my own > "hejira", it caught me, and it caught me hard... couldn't stop listening to > that album, which is one of my favourites since. > > that's my story, > Carmel. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:19:09 -0500 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Happy 35th Birthday Hejira 1976 was a huge year for Jaco Pastorius; he released his first solo album, and he appeared on numerous others' albums, including Pat Metheny's amazing "Bright Size Life", and of course, "Hejira". He also joined "Weather Report". For the next couple of years, I listened to all of these records. At the time, I could occasionally borrow a friend's turntable, borrow LP's, and record (burn?) them on to cassette. In 1979, I was about to embark on my first solo road trip (from Minnesota), ostensibly to visit potential graduate schools on the east coast. I had friends to visit in NJ, Connecticut, NH, Maine, and Boston, and as I was leaving, my late mother shared with me her sense of the meaning of the word "hejira", as a "journey one feels compelled to take". This road trip was my own personal hejira. Driving my mom's car, with the boom-box borrowed from my sister, I had a small suitcase full of cassettes. The only ones I can recall listening to on the entire trip are "Hejira", and a compilation of Mozart concertos. Some random memories: On my way to Ft. Kent Maine, on the Canadian border, I saw a black crow on the interstate highway right as "Black Crow" began. For my return trip, I drove across Canada, sleeping in the car two nights in a row, which was amazing. Unfortunately, I had mailed my weed home (it arrived intact) for fear of getting caught with it crossing the borders into and out of Canada. Hejira remains my favorite JM album; I recently listened intently to "Song for Sharon" (starting it anew every car trip) , noticing in particular how the late John Guerrin's drumming propels the song forward, now knowing that he and Joni were (or had been) romantically involved. ~Dan On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Gerald Notaro wrote: > Welcome, Carmel, > > I'm glad that though you are much younger than I ( I must admit is WAS long > ago) you had the same experience. The importamt thing is we find Hejira > when > we most need it :-) > > Jerry > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 10:14 AM, carmel rotem >wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm new to the list, been reading and enjoying it for the past few months > > now, > > and didn't really find the way to "fit in" with my own post. > > I decided to take this opportunity to write my own Hejira experience. > > I started to listen to Joni in highschool (which, I must edmit, wasn't so > > long > > ago). > > starting from C&S, LOTC, and a bit later Clouds and Blue. I was > > immediately > > caught in the Joni magic, and wanted to hear more of hers. > > then I bought Hejira. and I didn't feel that same magic, I was a bit > > disappointed. > > > > I rediscovered it while backpacking in South America. I was traveling for > 5 > > months, and had my i-pod with me, and there, away from home in my own > > "hejira", it caught me, and it caught me hard... couldn't stop listening > to > > that album, which is one of my favourites since. > > > > that's my story, > > Carmel. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 18:46:06 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: delusional diseases and drugs There is also, IMHO, the obvious neccessity of being slightly, if not completely, bonkers to be into the music of Joni Mitchell. I worked for some time on a double locked ward where it was sometimes uncomfortable to recognise that those locked within it were often more sane and insightful than most people (including myself) will ever be. Sanity/Insanity. Ahhh, just another Borderline. Anita xx Shine On the Pioneers Those seekers of mental health Craving simplicity They traveled inward Past themselves..... May all their little lights shine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 21:03:27 +0100 From: Anita Subject: Re: Happy 35th Birthday Hejira Like you Mags I wasn't terribly taken by Hejira when it first came out.It really grew slowly on me over time.One day I remember playing it for no reason and found myself enjoying C coyote and feeling immensely moved by Amelia.Only then did I start to get it.After that there was no going back. No instant gratification, but so worth it! Anita x Sent from my iPod On 14 May 2011, at 13:18, Mags wrote: > Great article, Bob. Preaching to the choir ! I'm wondering if anyone would like to write their own Hejira discovery stories..( I know we've done it a zillion times before...and there are new writers to the list, whose stories i would love to bear witness to. > > .I'm always interested to know when/where/how/what you thought and mostly what you felt upon discovering this jewel. I listen to all the complexities therein, each time I do, I hear 'more'. > > My very first Joni friend owned Hejira however, I didn't give it a chance, then. I wonder what that would have been like. And with that said, methinks I had to travel across the miles and miles life as well as diving into other Joni works to truly appreciate it as I do in the now. > > Rambling on, > > Mags ;--) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:43:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: delusional diseases and drugs It is a very fine line, isn't it? - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Anita G > > Sanity/Insanity. Ahhh, just another Borderline. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 23:00:00 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: delusional diseases and drugs On 15 May 2011 21:43, Catherine McKay wrote: > It is a very fine line, isn't it? Cat, I reckon so........but then it's all an illusion, anyway,(so some mighty fine people believe). As for me, well.......... It's Life's Illusions I Recall. I really don't know Life ...............At All. Anita ( doing her best to fill in for Patti while she's off) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 23:35:29 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: delusional diseases and drugs I think I may sound a wee bit flippant in my posts about this subject. Having read all the earlier posts, I do find it quite difficult to formulate my thoughts and make them coherent. However, I shall do my best. I do believe that the ways in which our bodies, minds and spirits (if you believe in them) function are so complex and so inter-related, it's not easy to know which is the chicken and which is the egg. We seem to be making enormous strides in terms of neuro science (as Laura says), structures of DNA etc. but there is still so much we just don't understand. Who knows why people develop the condtions and illnesses they do at the times that they do? There may be certain pointers and certain elements and risks, but we don't really know. What is clear is that everyone suffers in one way or another, and that includes hypochondriacs. Hypochondria is a manifestation of deep death anxiety. Not an easy place to be. And how tragic to be so worried about being ill and dying that the Joy of Life passes you by. And that isn't to dismiss those who have the reality of their mortality actually staring them in the face through a terminal diagnosis. That's the hardest call of all. We search and try to find words that describe certain conditions and illnesses. But that's what they are - just words. The experience of each person of their condition is absolutely unique to them. They will live with ovarian cancer or MS or schizophrenia or hypochondria or whatever they have to endure in their own way. They will die with whatever it is in their own unique way.We all will ll live and die in our own unique way, but bound together by all that makes us human. I don't know if these words make much sense. I guess I'm just saying that there is a lot of suffering in so many different ways. The best thing, I reckon, is compassion for each other and all things, Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 19:02:49 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: delusional diseases and drugs No one could have said it better Anita. Whatever Joni is suffering from, she is suffering. Compassion is what we can give. Jimmy In a message dated 5/15/2011 6:37:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lawntreader@googlemail.com writes: > I don't know if these words make much sense. I guess I'm just saying > that there is a lot of suffering in so many different ways. The best > thing, I reckon, is compassion for each other and all things, > Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:54:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Happy 35th Birthday Hejira Hi Carmel, welcome and thanks for your thoughts. I can relate to them because when I first heard Hejira it was shortly after it came out. I was not very much into Joni but I WAS very much into the girl who loaned me her copy and told me I needed to get more female vocalists into my musical diet (she was right). Anyway, I was amazed at the musical and lyrical textures of the album; didn't understand a lot of it but continued to spin it. As my life experiences increased, so did my understanding of the record. So, enjoy a lifetime of discovery ahead. Bob ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #135 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe