From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #133 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, May 14 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 133 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Re: delusional diseases & drugs [Anne Sandstrom ] RE: delusional diseases & drugs [Susan Tierney McNamara ] It's that time again [Dave Blackburn ] [none] [Kelly Loughran ] Re: Re: delusional diseases & drugs [Anne Sandstrom ] Mandolin Bros [Don ] Re: Joni & Mandolin Bros [Ken ] Joni married again??!! [Walt Breen ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:32:16 +0000 (GMT) From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Re: Re: delusional diseases & drugs I'm not sure what percentage of any population could be considered hypochondriacs. But I think the vast majority of people with symptoms really do experience those symptoms. Case in point - I had endometriosis before it was widely recognized. They finally did surgery to remove the very real and very tangible growths. More than one doctor had told me to relax and the pain would just go away (it was all in my head, they said). OTOH, it galls me to see drug companies peddling convenience drugs, like Viagra, Cialis, and even the 'leaky pipes' drug. In many cases, they're drugs looking for a market. They do a ral disservice to all, including doctors. Do I think Morgellons is 'real?' I suspect so. The parasite theory sounds especially interesting. Wishing us all good health. lots of love, Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 09:54:46 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: delusional diseases & drugs Corey, prayers to you and your wife that all goes well. What's interesting is that my ex-husband used to be the number one ranter in the "delusional" camp until he was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia, both auto-immune diseases. From my perspective, his ailments may have resulted from high stress on his system due to PTS issues from his childhood, spinal fusion surgery and a VERY INTENSE A personality!! This is anectdotal, plus I am coming from a very high biased (bitter) perspective!! So in Joni's case, maybe many factors over a lifetime, including childhood polio, a very high profile active creative life, and let's not forget her lifelong chain smoking, could have put stress on her immune system to result in Morgellons. Just a theory. My ex also smoked since he was 9. He was given permission to smoke in the house by his parents when he was 13. Take care, Sue From: Corey Blake [mailto:coreyblake@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 4:03 PM To: Paul Ivice Cc: Susan Tierney McNamara; jrgoodspeed@gmail.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs And my point is that I think people use hypochondria as a "go to" so they don't have to deal with the unsolvable. One study says people with actual hypochondria make up about 3% of patients, and yet you'd think it was hovering around 50%. On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Paul Ivice > wrote: I'm sorry that your wife is ill, but you're actually supporting my point, which is that the hypochondriacs make it harder for people like your wife who are legitimately sick to get accurate diagnoses and compassionate treatment. Error! Filename not specified. Paul Ivice ;>) - -----Original Message----- From: Corey Blake > To: Susan Tierney McNamara > Cc: Jenny Goodspeed >; Paul Ivice >; joni > Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 3:51 pm Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs 8 or 9 years ago, my wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. But it took her several doctors before someone actually listened to them. They all said it would go away or that it was nothing, she was actually fine or that it was probably in her head from stress. Well it was in her head. Two lesions. Last summer she was diagnosed with lupus as well, which means she has to avoid sunlight like the plague. I understand that hypochondria does exist, but I think assuming that before anything else is lazy, insulting and not even very logical. "Self-fulfilling prophecy"? That's the same logic that claims people want to be gay because they get such wonderful treatment and attention, but it's really just made-up. Please. Sorry, but I'm a little sensitive about this topic right now, as we're fighting for social security to admit that two full-blown autoimmune diseases are significant enough to count as disability. - -Corey On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara > wrote: Jenny, I have several friends with fibromyalgia and I'm happy that they are finally getting the help they need with this debilitating problem. It seems like more and more people I know are suffering from chronic migraines and I wonder what that is all about? I also strongly agree that doctors should just say they don't know and keep up the research. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jenny Goodspeed Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:10 PM To: Paul Ivice Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs There is a long history in medicine of calling a condition delusional when current technologies can't quantify it scientifically. Especially conditions primarily suffered by women. Just saying... I have to call you out on the fibromyalgia Paul. The brain and spinal cord process pain signals differently for people with fibromyalgia and they react more strongly to touch and pressure, with a heightened sensitivity to pain. It is a real physiological and neurochemical problem (unfortunately for me.) It's often tied to a sleep disorder. The reason it's diagnosis is more widely accepted now is b/c there have been studies in recent years clearly documenting various aspects of central nervous system dysfunction in people with the condition. With regards to Morgellons - lack of evidence is simply lack of evidence. To conclude a disorder is delusional in the face of a dearth of evidence is just a huge leap. Jenny On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Paul Ivice > wrote: > Sue wrote: > How many people worldwide are we talking about? If we do buy the > delusional > diagnosis, does it happen in isolation or in a "mass hysteria" environment? > If > doctors are defaulting to a delusional diagnosis because they don't have > enough information, why do they have to put a label on it? Do > anti-depressants > or anti-psychotics relieve the symptoms? I guess these are the questions > that > come to the top of my mind because of the way doctors turned around about > Fibromyalgia (or was that because some pharmaceutical company came up with > a > drug and they needed a disease?) I'm feeling like I have both Scully and > Muldar arguing in my head!! Forgive me!!! > > > There are examples of both in history. Most of the medical community > thought > people who had what is now called Lyme Disease attributed that illness to > delusions early on. > As for Fibromyalgia, I think Sue is right in saying that was a drug looking > for a disease to treat. Both of the people I know who claim to suffer from > Fibromyalgia are most likely delusional. > Perhaps evidence will be found at some point that moves Morgellon's from > the > delusional category to something more convincing, but for now count me > among > those who see it as a self-fulfilling prophecy for those who believe they > have > it. > > Paul Ivice ;>) > - -- Jenny Goodspeed 1/3 of The Boxcar Lilies http://www.boxcarlilies.com Coming up details at www.boxcarlilies.com/shows.html 4/29 Hooker-Dunham Theater, Brattleboro, VT with Cahalen & Eli 5/14 Hilltown Spring Festival, Cummington Fairgrounds, MA 5/23 The Art Barn Songwriter Series, Cotuit, MA 6/4 Flat Street Brew Pub, Brattleboro, VT 6/25 The Tin Angel, Philadelphia, PA - with Beaucoup Blue 6/26 - In the Studio with Gene Shay, WXPN Philadelphia 7/16 The Green River Festival, Greenfield, MA Save the date! We're headlining at the Iron Horse (Northampton, MA) on November 27th - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com/ Live improv comedy and sketch comedy videos - http://www.magicmeathands.com/ - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com/ Live improv comedy and sketch comedy videos - http://www.magicmeathands.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 11:19:47 -0400 From: Vince Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs This is all crazy. Nothing is official until it is posted on facebook. Until then it it bogus rumor, its all fantasy delusion. When it becomes real, it will be a facebook status that we will post for a hour if we know or have known or will know someone who has or had or will have the subject at hand or at foot or at whatever body part is in question. But then, you realize, if Osama bin Laden had not logged into facebook with his location and given his review of how he used his new Groupon coupon (three wives and all the kids don't you know) at the new Pizza Hut in Abbottobad, he's still be alive today. The same Navy SEALS who tracked him on facebook and whacked him were the ones who made off with Lieve's wallet, surely. And checking locations, I think Scott Walker hired those Seals to get our Suze at Union Grove High School too, but they got confused by the Bob in Beijing and Joseph in Carolina or is it NY thing. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 08:37:21 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: It's that time again I am resending this because the donate link was not working (I should have left a space) Dear Joniphiles, This needs to reach you all , hence there is no njc tag. It's that time again, and the bill is due in a few weeks for the hosting of JoniMItchell.com. Les, keeper of all Joni-content, is too polite to bother us with solicitations for money, but the annual $1000 must be found nonetheless and he is only at 10% of the goal so far. So I'll make it brief. Donations of any amount are welcome. There are about 1000 of us, I believe, but if even 5% of us sent him $20US he'd make his goal. So, rather than wait till the bill is due and payable and beads of sweat are forming on Les' brow, may I invite everyone to click here today and smooth over those worry lines for him: http://jonimitchell.com/donate.cfm You don't need a Paypal account to do this and you can even mail a check via pony express; "I don't care how it gets here, just get (it) here if you can" Now here's further incentive - As we did last year I am collecting Joni covers from among our members to be assembled into a downloadable album as a thank-you to all those who make him a contribution. Only those who make a contribution will receive the link to get it. This year, I have solicited some Joni covers from some great artists on the periphery of the JMDL to support the cause and the tracks I have received so far are stellar. Martin Giles has one in the works, and you will hear tracks from Henning and Christina, Dave King, Jacob Moon, Kevin Danzig, and of course Robin Adler. To submit a Joni cover for inclusion please contact me for specifics so this email does not get too long or technical. Dave Dave Blackburn Audio Production Services http://www.daveblackburn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 23:52:46 +0000 From: Kelly Loughran Subject: [none] http://ses4shiing10roducts10power.cx.cc/?s2x2a0 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 15:46:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Re: Re: delusional diseases & drugs You made me laugh, Vince. And yet, in its own twisted way, isn't there some bigger truth in what you say? btw, I always said that if bin Laden had gone to my college, the alumni association would have been able to track him... great to see you posting here... lots of love, Anne On May 13, 2011, Vince wrote: This is all crazy. Nothing is official until it is posted on facebook. Until then it it bogus rumor, its all fantasy delusion. When it becomes real, it will be a facebook status that we will post for a hour if we know or have known or will know someone who has or had or will have the subject at hand or at foot or at whatever body part is in question. But then, you realize, if Osama bin Laden had not logged into facebook with his location and given his review of how he used his new Groupon coupon (three wives and all the kids don't you know) at the new Pizza Hut in Abbottobad, he's still be alive today. The same Navy SEALS who tracked him on facebook and whacked him were the ones who made off with Lieve's wallet, surely. And checking locations, I think Scott Walker hired those Seals to get our Suze at Union Grove High School too, but they got confused by the Bob in Beijing and Joseph in Carolina or is it NY thing. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 10:58:23 +1000 From: Don Subject: Mandolin Bros I remember making a trip there in 2005. Stan Jay is one of the most amazing people on the planet, he walked me through every room in the store even the workshops where they were servicing one of McCartney's Hofner basses. When it came to buying a mandolin, my first in over 30 years, Stan took each instrument down and played Rhapsody in Blue on it before placing it back in it's place on the wall. I eventually chose a Mid Missouri, it suited my ability, needs and budget. I still have it and have used it for both recording and live. I still get email notification of sales and seasonal greetings. If I lived closer I am sure I would have bought more instruments from there, but they even ship to Australia and I still buy my mando strings from them. What a great shop and what great people, they give me confidence that genuine business people still exist and do it for the love of what they do not just money. Don in cold Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 22:44:45 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Re: Joni & Mandolin Bros My original post on my blog (of my trip to the old & new Mandolin Brothers) is still available for viewing. I had put it there in 2008 and forgot I had done it. (I actually have lots more photos than are on the blog; I did that while I was still inexperienced at it). http://thekenbausertchronicles.blogspot.com/2008/11/i-went-to-staten-island-s haron.html And, yes! If you come to New York, I'll personally take you on the "Song For Sharon Staten Island Tour." Ken - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay To: Ken ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 7:53 pm Subject: Re: Joni & Mandolin Bros Ken, I remember that, and I am definitely interested in having another look. If and when I ever get to New York, I do wanna go there! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 00:52:20 -0600 From: Walt Breen Subject: Joni married again??!! Hi, gang, I'm out of the loop lately (alas, not just with respect to this list), and when looking at some of Joni's pix and paintings, I came across the line, "Joni and her husband [Bob or Bill Something, so much for my short-term memory] yada yada yada..." There was no more info on this, and her Wiki entry makes no mention of it. Sorry if it's old nooz hereabouts, but I'd love to know more about when it happened, and who he is, from those who love her. Worried sick about Lieve, but feeling helpless to do anything for her -- just loaned my last $100 to my cleaning lady, who had a family emergency. I'm basically fine, thirty years of HIV notwithstanding, tutoring calculus and differential equations for pocket money, and studying the Tarot for the last few months, after a 35-year hiatus. Tried to start a Tarot Club, but I live just north of SLC, and couldn't stir up enough interest -- also, my Mormon landlord made me give it up for fear that someone (gasp) WICCAN might show up!! Jesus fuckin' Brigham Young Joseph Smith Christ. I'm trying to save up enough $ to get the hell out of the reddest state in the union (and also holder of the Worst Gun Laws; each of the last three days had a school lockdown for guns spotted on middle and high school campuses). Mormons are the nicest people on earth on a one-on-one basis, but collectively, they are the sweater-and-tie-wearing Borg, and after 18 months, I've decided resistance is futile, and moving is advised... Hope you are all well, Love, Walt "Little" Breen Well, I'm learning it's peaceful With a good dog and some trees Out of touch with the breakdown Of this century We're not gonna fix that up Too easy (Joni Mitchell, "Electricity", 1972) Let the walls come tumbling down Let them fall right on the ground Let all the dogs go running free The wild and the gentle dogs Kenneled in me (Joni Mitchell, Jericho, 1974) Visit my website: www.learninginsights.info ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #133 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe