From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #132 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, May 13 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 132 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: delusional diseases & drugs [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: delusional diseases & drugs [Corey Blake ] Joni & Mandolin Bros [Ken ] Re: Joni & Mandolin Bros [Catherine McKay ] Re: delusional diseases & drugs [Paul Ivice ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:50:18 -0400 From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs Depends on the size, scope, and methodology used in the study, of course, but anecdotal reporting with an n of 2 is not evidence of anything other than your own personal experience. But, using your 'logic' Paul, you would also need to know who was reporting the anecdotal evidence and why in order to come an accurate conclusion about which evidence was stronger. Jenny On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > I disagree. Anecdotal evidence is usually much stronger than the results of > one study, when you don't know who was conducting the study or why. > > Paul Ivice ;>) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jenny Goodspeed > To: Paul Ivice > Cc: coreyblake ; sem8 ; joni < > joni@smoe.org> > Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 4:31 pm > Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs > > Hey at least quoting one study is a step above "Both of the people I know > who claim to suffer from Fibromyalgia are most likely delusional." as > evidence, lol. > > Jenny > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > >> Truthfully, as a journalist for more than30 years, I am skeptical of >> anyone who quotes the results of "one study," because it is usually the >> study whose results are most favorable to that person's position or opinion. >> When the preponderance of studies supports your position, let me know. >> >> Paul Ivice ;>) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Corey Blake >> To: Paul Ivice >> Cc: sem8 ; jrgoodspeed ; joni < >> joni@smoe.org> >> Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 4:03 pm >> Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs >> >> And my point is that I think people use hypochondria as a "go to" so they >> don't have to deal with the unsolvable. One study says people with actual >> hypochondria make up about 3% of patients, and yet you'd think it was >> hovering around 50%. >> >> >> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: >> >>> I'm sorry that your wife is ill, but you're actually supporting my point, >>> which is that the hypochondriacs make it harder >>> for people like your wife who are legitimately sick to get accurate >>> diagnoses and compassionate treatment. >>> >>> >>> Paul Ivice ;>) >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Corey Blake >>> To: Susan Tierney McNamara >>> Cc: Jenny Goodspeed ; Paul Ivice < >>> ivpaul42@aol.com>; joni >>> Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 3:51 pm >>> Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs >>> >>> 8 or 9 years ago, my wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. But it >>> took her several doctors before someone actually listened to them. They all >>> said it would go away or that it was nothing, she was actually fine or that >>> it was probably in her head from stress. Well it was in her head. Two >>> lesions. Last summer she was diagnosed with lupus as well, which means she >>> has to avoid sunlight like the plague. >>> >>> I understand that hypochondria does exist, but I think assuming that >>> before anything else is lazy, insulting and not even very logical. >>> "Self-fulfilling prophecy"? That's the same logic that claims people want to >>> be gay because they get such wonderful treatment and attention, but it's >>> really just made-up. Please. >>> >>> Sorry, but I'm a little sensitive about this topic right now, as we're >>> fighting for social security to admit that two full-blown autoimmune >>> diseases are significant enough to count as disability. >>> >>> -Corey >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara < >>> sem8@cornell.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> Jenny, I have several friends with fibromyalgia and I'm happy that they >>>> are finally getting the help they need with this debilitating problem. It >>>> seems like more and more people I know are suffering from chronic migraines >>>> and I wonder what that is all about? I also strongly agree that doctors >>>> should just say they don't know and keep up the research. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Jenny Goodspeed >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:10 PM >>>> To: Paul Ivice >>>> Cc: joni@smoe.org >>>> Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs >>>> >>>> There is a long history in medicine of calling a condition delusional >>>> when >>>> current technologies can't quantify it scientifically. Especially >>>> conditions primarily suffered by women. Just saying... >>>> >>>> I have to call you out on the fibromyalgia Paul. The brain and spinal >>>> cord >>>> process pain signals differently for people with fibromyalgia and they >>>> react >>>> more strongly to touch and pressure, with a heightened sensitivity to >>>> pain. >>>> It is a real physiological and neurochemical problem (unfortunately for >>>> me.) It's often tied to a sleep disorder. >>>> >>>> The reason it's diagnosis is more widely accepted now is b/c there have >>>> been >>>> studies in recent years clearly documenting various aspects of central >>>> nervous system dysfunction in people with the condition. >>>> >>>> With regards to Morgellons - lack of evidence is simply lack of >>>> evidence. >>>> To conclude a disorder is delusional in the face of a dearth of evidence >>>> is >>>> just a huge leap. >>>> >>>> Jenny >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: >>>> >>>> > Sue wrote: >>>> > How many people worldwide are we talking about? If we do buy the >>>> > delusional >>>> > diagnosis, does it happen in isolation or in a "mass hysteria" >>>> environment? >>>> > If >>>> > doctors are defaulting to a delusional diagnosis because they don't >>>> have >>>> > enough information, why do they have to put a label on it? Do >>>> > anti-depressants >>>> > or anti-psychotics relieve the symptoms? I guess these are the >>>> questions >>>> > that >>>> > come to the top of my mind because of the way doctors turned around >>>> about >>>> > Fibromyalgia (or was that because some pharmaceutical company came up >>>> with >>>> > a >>>> > drug and they needed a disease?) I'm feeling like I have both Scully >>>> and >>>> > Muldar arguing in my head!! Forgive me!!! >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > There are examples of both in history. Most of the medical community >>>> > thought >>>> > people who had what is now called Lyme Disease attributed that illness >>>> to >>>> > delusions early on. >>>> > As for Fibromyalgia, I think Sue is right in saying that was a drug >>>> looking >>>> > for a disease to treat. Both of the people I know who claim to suffer >>>> from >>>> > Fibromyalgia are most likely delusional. >>>> > Perhaps evidence will be found at some point that moves Morgellon's >>>> from >>>> > the >>>> > delusional category to something more convincing, but for now count me >>>> > among >>>> > those who see it as a self-fulfilling prophecy for those who believe >>>> they >>>> > have >>>> > it. >>>> > >>>> > Paul Ivice ;>) >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jenny Goodspeed >>>> 1/3 of The Boxcar Lilies >>>> http://www.boxcarlilies.com >>>> >>>> Coming up details at www.boxcarlilies.com/shows.html >>>> 4/29 Hooker-Dunham Theater, Brattleboro, VT with Cahalen & Eli >>>> 5/14 Hilltown Spring Festival, Cummington Fairgrounds, MA >>>> 5/23 The Art Barn Songwriter Series, Cotuit, MA >>>> 6/4 Flat Street Brew Pub, Brattleboro, VT >>>> 6/25 The Tin Angel, Philadelphia, PA - with Beaucoup Blue >>>> 6/26 - In the Studio with Gene Shay, WXPN Philadelphia >>>> 7/16 The Green River Festival, Greenfield, MA >>>> Save the date! We're headlining at the Iron Horse (Northampton, MA) on >>>> November 27th >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> - --------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of >>> me >>> >>> Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com/ >>> >>> Live improv comedy and sketch comedy videos - >>> http://www.magicmeathands.com/ >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> - --------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of >> me >> >> Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com/ >> >> Live improv comedy and sketch comedy videos - >> http://www.magicmeathands.com/ >> >> > > > -- > Jenny Goodspeed > 1/3 of The Boxcar Lilies > http://www.boxcarlilies.com > > Coming updetails at www.boxcarlilies.com/shows.html > 4/29  Hooker-Dunham Theater, Brattleboro, VT with Cahalen & Eli > 5/14  Hilltown Spring Festival, Cummington Fairgrounds, MA > 5/23  The Art Barn Songwriter Series, Cotuit, MA > 6/4  Flat Street Brew Pub, Brattleboro, VT > 6/25  The Tin Angel, Philadelphia, PA - with Beaucoup Blue > 6/26 - In the Studio with Gene Shay, WXPN Philadelphia > 7/16  The Green River Festival, Greenfield, MA > Save the date! We're headlining at the Iron Horse (Northampton, MA) on > November 27th > > > > - -- Jenny Goodspeed 1/3 of The Boxcar Lilies http://www.boxcarlilies.com Coming updetails at www.boxcarlilies.com/shows.html 4/29  Hooker-Dunham Theater, Brattleboro, VT with Cahalen & Eli 5/14  Hilltown Spring Festival, Cummington Fairgrounds, MA 5/23  The Art Barn Songwriter Series, Cotuit, MA 6/4  Flat Street Brew Pub, Brattleboro, VT 6/25  The Tin Angel, Philadelphia, PA - with Beaucoup Blue 6/26 - In the Studio with Gene Shay, WXPN Philadelphia 7/16  The Green River Festival, Greenfield, MA Save the date! We're headlining at the Iron Horse (Northampton, MA) on November 27th ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 13:56:02 -0700 From: Corey Blake Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs Paul, going off your message that I was responding to, I saw no indication whatsoever that we were writing articles. As Jenny pointed out, you certainly failed to provide any concrete data whatsoever to back up your position. However, your response when I do is to be petty. Nice journalistic integrity. - -Corey On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > Truthfully, as a journalist for more than30 years, I am skeptical of anyone > who quotes the results of "one study," because it is usually the study whose > results are most favorable to that person's position or opinion. > When the preponderance of studies supports your position, let me know. > > Paul Ivice ;>) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Corey Blake > To: Paul Ivice > Cc: sem8 ; jrgoodspeed ; joni < > joni@smoe.org> > Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 4:03 pm > Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs > > And my point is that I think people use hypochondria as a "go to" so they > don't have to deal with the unsolvable. One study says people with actual > hypochondria make up about 3% of patients, and yet you'd think it was > hovering around 50%. > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > >> I'm sorry that your wife is ill, but you're actually supporting my point, >> which is that the hypochondriacs make it harder >> for people like your wife who are legitimately sick to get accurate >> diagnoses and compassionate treatment. >> >> >> Paul Ivice ;>) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Corey Blake >> To: Susan Tierney McNamara >> Cc: Jenny Goodspeed ; Paul Ivice ; >> joni >> Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 3:51 pm >> Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs >> >> 8 or 9 years ago, my wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. But it >> took her several doctors before someone actually listened to them. They all >> said it would go away or that it was nothing, she was actually fine or that >> it was probably in her head from stress. Well it was in her head. Two >> lesions. Last summer she was diagnosed with lupus as well, which means she >> has to avoid sunlight like the plague. >> >> I understand that hypochondria does exist, but I think assuming that >> before anything else is lazy, insulting and not even very logical. >> "Self-fulfilling prophecy"? That's the same logic that claims people want to >> be gay because they get such wonderful treatment and attention, but it's >> really just made-up. Please. >> >> Sorry, but I'm a little sensitive about this topic right now, as we're >> fighting for social security to admit that two full-blown autoimmune >> diseases are significant enough to count as disability. >> >> -Corey >> >> >> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara < >> sem8@cornell.edu> wrote: >> >>> Jenny, I have several friends with fibromyalgia and I'm happy that they >>> are finally getting the help they need with this debilitating problem. It >>> seems like more and more people I know are suffering from chronic migraines >>> and I wonder what that is all about? I also strongly agree that doctors >>> should just say they don't know and keep up the research. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of >>> Jenny Goodspeed >>> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:10 PM >>> To: Paul Ivice >>> Cc: joni@smoe.org >>> Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs >>> >>> There is a long history in medicine of calling a condition delusional >>> when >>> current technologies can't quantify it scientifically. Especially >>> conditions primarily suffered by women. Just saying... >>> >>> I have to call you out on the fibromyalgia Paul. The brain and spinal >>> cord >>> process pain signals differently for people with fibromyalgia and they >>> react >>> more strongly to touch and pressure, with a heightened sensitivity to >>> pain. >>> It is a real physiological and neurochemical problem (unfortunately for >>> me.) It's often tied to a sleep disorder. >>> >>> The reason it's diagnosis is more widely accepted now is b/c there have >>> been >>> studies in recent years clearly documenting various aspects of central >>> nervous system dysfunction in people with the condition. >>> >>> With regards to Morgellons - lack of evidence is simply lack of evidence. >>> To conclude a disorder is delusional in the face of a dearth of evidence >>> is >>> just a huge leap. >>> >>> Jenny >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: >>> >>> > Sue wrote: >>> > How many people worldwide are we talking about? If we do buy the >>> > delusional >>> > diagnosis, does it happen in isolation or in a "mass hysteria" >>> environment? >>> > If >>> > doctors are defaulting to a delusional diagnosis because they don't >>> have >>> > enough information, why do they have to put a label on it? Do >>> > anti-depressants >>> > or anti-psychotics relieve the symptoms? I guess these are the >>> questions >>> > that >>> > come to the top of my mind because of the way doctors turned around >>> about >>> > Fibromyalgia (or was that because some pharmaceutical company came up >>> with >>> > a >>> > drug and they needed a disease?) I'm feeling like I have both Scully >>> and >>> > Muldar arguing in my head!! Forgive me!!! >>> > >>> > >>> > There are examples of both in history. Most of the medical community >>> > thought >>> > people who had what is now called Lyme Disease attributed that illness >>> to >>> > delusions early on. >>> > As for Fibromyalgia, I think Sue is right in saying that was a drug >>> looking >>> > for a disease to treat. Both of the people I know who claim to suffer >>> from >>> > Fibromyalgia are most likely delusional. >>> > Perhaps evidence will be found at some point that moves Morgellon's >>> from >>> > the >>> > delusional category to something more convincing, but for now count me >>> > among >>> > those who see it as a self-fulfilling prophecy for those who believe >>> they >>> > have >>> > it. >>> > >>> > Paul Ivice ;>) >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jenny Goodspeed >>> 1/3 of The Boxcar Lilies >>> http://www.boxcarlilies.com >>> >>> Coming up details at www.boxcarlilies.com/shows.html >>> 4/29 Hooker-Dunham Theater, Brattleboro, VT with Cahalen & Eli >>> 5/14 Hilltown Spring Festival, Cummington Fairgrounds, MA >>> 5/23 The Art Barn Songwriter Series, Cotuit, MA >>> 6/4 Flat Street Brew Pub, Brattleboro, VT >>> 6/25 The Tin Angel, Philadelphia, PA - with Beaucoup Blue >>> 6/26 - In the Studio with Gene Shay, WXPN Philadelphia >>> 7/16 The Green River Festival, Greenfield, MA >>> Save the date! We're headlining at the Iron Horse (Northampton, MA) on >>> November 27th >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> --------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of >> me >> >> Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com/ >> >> Live improv comedy and sketch comedy videos - >> http://www.magicmeathands.com/ >> >> > > > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me > > Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com/ > > Live improv comedy and sketch comedy videos - > http://www.magicmeathands.com/ > > - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com/ Live improv comedy and sketch comedy videos - http://www.magicmeathands.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 17:48:20 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Joni & Mandolin Bros Somewhere in the JMDL archives should be my story & photos of my trip there, starting at the ferry dock, going to the original building, and then to the new one (meeting Stan Jay & getting copies of the original Joni pix). If anyone wants to see that, let me know off list & I'll send it to you. If anyone ever wants to visit the store, and wants company, let me know & I'll go with you. Kenny B Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 05:12:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Joni mention in Acoustic Guitar magazine article on Mandolin Brothers I just got around to noticing an article by Adam Perlmutter in the May "Acoustic Guitar" magazine about the Mandolin Brothers music shop. There is a Joni mention in the first paragraph, copied below. The full article can be found at this link: http://www.acousticguitar.com/article/default.aspx?articleid=26804 "Nestled in the quiet New York City borough of Staten Island is a famed institution, equal parts guitar store and museum, that is packed with a stunning assortment of musical treasuresbfrom vintage mandolins to modern boutique flattops. Though Mandolin Brothers is actually only 20 miles from midtown Manhattan, it is not easy to get there; factoring in traffic or public-transit obstacles, the trip can take a couple hours. But musicians anonymous and celebrated have trekked to this mecca of fretted instruments and found the destination to be uncommonly rewarding. Joni Mitchell even referenced the store in Song for Sharon. Anyone whobs taken the steps necessary to get here is welcomed as a fully vetted customer and can play every instrument in the place and ask up to a million questions,b Mandolin Brothers president Stan Jay says." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:53:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni & Mandolin Bros Ken, I remember that, and I am definitely interested in having another look. If and when I ever get to New York, I do wanna go there! - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ken > To: joni@smoe.org > Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 5:48:20 PM > Subject: Joni & Mandolin Bros > > Somewhere in the JMDL archives should be my story & photos of my trip there, > starting at the ferry dock, going to the original building, and then to the > new one (meeting Stan Jay & getting copies of the original Joni pix). If > anyone wants to see that, let me know off list & I'll send it to you. If > anyone ever wants to visit the store, and wants company, let me know & I'll go > with you. > > > Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:49:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Ivice Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs Yes, of course, Jenny, but it is MY anecdotal reporting, so it has much more meaning to ME than some study done by some person I never heard of whose reason for wanting to conduct the study (his or her agenda) is unknown to me. People generally give too much credence to studies, especially when they are reported by media who know even less about the study's background. I read about a study once which found that only 3 percent of studies are done objectively and following scientific method. J/K but i think you get the point. It is a pet peeve of mine when people cite the results of a study they never read, do not know the background of and was probably misunderstood by the media that reported it. Paul Ivice ;>) - -----Original Message----- From: Jenny Goodspeed To: Paul Ivice Cc: coreyblake ; sem8 ; joni Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 4:50 pm Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs Depends on the size, scope, and methodology used in the study, of course, but anecdotal reporting with an n of 2 is not evidence of anything other than your own personal experience. But, using your 'logic' Paul, you would also need to know who was reporting the anecdotal evidence and why in order to come an accurate conclusion about which evidence was stronger. Jenny On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: I disagree. Anecdotal evidence is usually much stronger than the results of one study, when you don't know who was conducting the study or why. Paul Ivice ;>) - -----Original Message----- From: Jenny Goodspeed To: Paul Ivice Cc: coreyblake ; sem8 ; joni Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 4:31 pm Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs Hey at least quoting one study is a step above "Both of the people I know who claim to suffer from Fibromyalgia are most likely delusional." as evidence, lol. Jenny On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: Truthfully, as a journalist for more than30 years, I am skeptical of anyone who quotes the results of "one study," because it is usually the study whose results are most favorable to that person's position or opinion. When the preponderance of studies supports your position, let me know. Paul Ivice ;>) - -----Original Message----- From: Corey Blake To: Paul Ivice Cc: sem8 ; jrgoodspeed ; joni Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 4:03 pm Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs And my point is that I think people use hypochondria as a "go to" so they don't have to deal with the unsolvable. One study says people with actual hypochondria make up about 3% of patients, and yet you'd think it was hovering around 50%. On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: I'm sorry that your wife is ill, but you're actually supporting my point, which is that the hypochondriacs make it harder for people like your wife who are legitimately sick to get accurate diagnoses and compassionate treatment. Paul Ivice ;>) - -----Original Message----- From: Corey Blake To: Susan Tierney McNamara Cc: Jenny Goodspeed ; Paul Ivice ; joni Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 3:51 pm Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs 8 or 9 years ago, my wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. But it took her several doctors before someone actually listened to them. They all said it would go away or that it was nothing, she was actually fine or that it was probably in her head from stress. Well it was in her head. Two lesions. Last summer she was diagnosed with lupus as well, which means she has to avoid sunlight like the plague. I understand that hypochondria does exist, but I think assuming that before anything else is lazy, insulting and not even very logical. "Self-fulfilling prophecy"? That's the same logic that claims people want to be gay because they get such wonderful treatment and attention, but it's really just made-up. Please. Sorry, but I'm a little sensitive about this topic right now, as we're fighting for social security to admit that two full-blown autoimmune diseases are significant enough to count as disability. - -Corey On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: Jenny, I have several friends with fibromyalgia and I'm happy that they are finally getting the help they need with this debilitating problem. It seems like more and more people I know are suffering from chronic migraines and I wonder what that is all about? I also strongly agree that doctors should just say they don't know and keep up the research. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jenny Goodspeed Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:10 PM To: Paul Ivice Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: delusional diseases & drugs There is a long history in medicine of calling a condition delusional when current technologies can't quantify it scientifically. Especially conditions primarily suffered by women. Just saying... I have to call you out on the fibromyalgia Paul. The brain and spinal cord process pain signals differently for people with fibromyalgia and they react more strongly to touch and pressure, with a heightened sensitivity to pain. It is a real physiological and neurochemical problem (unfortunately for me.) It's often tied to a sleep disorder. The reason it's diagnosis is more widely accepted now is b/c there have been studies in recent years clearly documenting various aspects of central nervous system dysfunction in people with the condition. With regards to Morgellons - lack of evidence is simply lack of evidence. To conclude a disorder is delusional in the face of a dearth of evidence is just a huge leap. Jenny On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > Sue wrote: > How many people worldwide are we talking about? If we do buy the > delusional > diagnosis, does it happen in isolation or in a "mass hysteria" environment? > If > doctors are defaulting to a delusional diagnosis because they don't have > enough information, why do they have to put a label on it? Do > anti-depressants > or anti-psychotics relieve the symptoms? I guess these are the questions > that > come to the top of my mind because of the way doctors turned around about > Fibromyalgia (or was that because some pharmaceutical company came up with > a > drug and they needed a disease?) I'm feeling like I have both Scully and > Muldar arguing in my head!! Forgive me!!! > > > There are examples of both in history. Most of the medical community > thought > people who had what is now called Lyme Disease attributed that illness to > delusions early on. > As for Fibromyalgia, I think Sue is right in saying that was a drug looking > for a disease to treat. Both of the people I know who claim to suffer from > Fibromyalgia are most likely delusional. > Perhaps evidence will be found at some point that moves Morgellon's from > the > delusional category to something more convincing, but for now count me > among > those who see it as a self-fulfilling prophecy for those who believe they > have > it. > > Paul Ivice ;>) > - -- Jenny Goodspeed 1/3 of The Boxcar Lilies http://www.boxcarlilies.com Coming up details at www.boxcarlilies.com/shows.html 4/29 Hooker-Dunham Theater, Brattleboro, VT with Cahalen & Eli 5/14 Hilltown Spring Festival, Cummington Fairgrounds, MA 5/23 The Art Barn Songwriter Series, Cotuit, MA 6/4 Flat Street Brew Pub, Brattleboro, VT 6/25 The Tin Angel, Philadelphia, PA - with Beaucoup Blue 6/26 - In the Studio with Gene Shay, WXPN Philadelphia 7/16 The Green River Festival, Greenfield, MA Save the date! We're headlining at the Iron Horse (Northampton, MA) on November 27th - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com/ Live improv comedy and sketch comedy videos - http://www.magicmeathands.com/ - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com/ Live improv comedy and sketch comedy videos - http://www.magicmeathands.com/ - -- Jenny Goodspeed 1/3 of The Boxcar Lilies http://www.boxcarlilies.com Coming upb&details at www.boxcarlilies.com/shows.html 4/29 b Hooker-Dunham Theater, Brattleboro, VT with Cahalen & Eli 5/14 b Hilltown Spring Festival, Cummington Fairgrounds, MA 5/23 b The Art Barn Songwriter Series, Cotuit, MA 6/4 b Flat Street Brew Pub, Brattleboro, VT 6/25 b The Tin Angel, Philadelphia, PA - with Beaucoup Blue 6/26 - In the Studio with Gene Shay, WXPN Philadelphia 7/16 b The Green River Festival, Greenfield, MA Save the date! We're headlining at the Iron Horse (Northampton, MA) on November 27th - -- Jenny Goodspeed 1/3 of The Boxcar Lilies http://www.boxcarlilies.com Coming upb&details at www.boxcarlilies.com/shows.html 4/29 b Hooker-Dunham Theater, Brattleboro, VT with Cahalen & Eli 5/14 b Hilltown Spring Festival, Cummington Fairgrounds, MA 5/23 b The Art Barn Songwriter Series, Cotuit, MA 6/4 b Flat Street Brew Pub, Brattleboro, VT 6/25 b The Tin Angel, Philadelphia, PA - with Beaucoup Blue 6/26 - In the Studio with Gene Shay, WXPN Philadelphia 7/16 b The Green River Festival, Greenfield, MA Save the date! We're headlining at the Iron Horse (Northampton, MA) on November 27th ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #132 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe