From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #93 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, April 4 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 093 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- when she thought she had some choice [Oddmund Kaarevik Subject: when she thought she had some choice In come in from the cold a song that has haunted me since i became a joni fan about twelve years ago she says: When I thought life had some meaning Then I thought I had some choice (I was running blind) And I made some value judgments In a self-important voice (I was outa line) But then absurdity came over me And I longed to lose control (into no mind) Oh all I ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold What I reflect upon today is these value-judgments, that she made in a self-important voice I am aware that these aren't Joni's lyrics at her uppermost. but still those words ring true to me. She strikes me right there. And then after the judgement she longs to lose control. Because absurdity came over her. Life is often absurd It is absurd and tragic that thousands of people get killed in a tsunami Mother nature is powerful and merciless. Life is also absurd at times. When we think we have everything we lose it all When we have nothing we might find a new and unexpected friend. That is life's richness. Taste it. Sometimes life tires us out Other times we find new sources to gain energy and joy from, I've just started knitting and painting again Ten years ago I last did any tries. It makes me happy and sometimes not. In a book I have the author says There is a joy that comes from creating everyone deserves to feel that joy what a great quote. Love Oddmund ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 00:44:45 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Charlie Rose's Green Room with Joni Mitchell 2008 This is too interesting to let it go quietly. Basically I could defend both sides of the story. But since Lieve seems to have reflected the consensus I choose to play the devil's advocate and defend some of Joni's statements as I am not afraid of "swiping generalizations" "America is as perverse as pre WWII Germany": not sure about that. Besides Joni refers to this situation being caused by a long peace. But... there is no peace for the USA except on its very soil. I interpret Joni's statement being about decadence and in that respect she's probably right. Joni states that leadership is grotesque and the masses are ignorant of atrocities being committed. I agree that for the U.S. and also for France that leadership is grotesque. All political considerations aside, when one compares our presidents to statesmen like Winston Churchill or Roosevelt, can one really say that nowadays overall the presidents are true leaders with a vision, and that they are/were the best men to lead the country? I am not picking on any individual, to me they are all either puppets or puppeteers. If you disagree, please name some great statesmen/women of the last 30 years. I disagree with Joni that the people are/were ignorant of atrocities, in both the U.S. and Germany. Regarding American men & women, after spending 10 years in the U.S. (L.A.) I've come to the conclusion that it's a matriarchal society. Comparing with Frenchmen, there is no question that American men are weak and dominated by women. The way I see it, American men are sweet and gentle but those traits are interpreted as weakness by too many women. Of course American women are very aggressive. As a man I found them totally unfeminine as a result. And I was not at all surprised at the amount of gay men perhaps as a reaction? I mean I would become gay too if I lived in the U.S., LOL Now I haven't spent a lot of time outside California so I cannot say whether these traits are all over the country or not. I am speaking of what I have experienced personally. Sorry guys again these are generalizations, I am sure there are many exceptions. In the context of the interview, Joni is not talking about a battle of the sexes. Her point is that food & water shortages lie ahead and that the current generation is not prepared to those future troubles because they're shallow and frivolous. I could not agree more with this, not that there is any real preparation for troubles. But the equation could look something like this: shallow & materialistic/instant gratification/look out for Number One generation > greed & financial profit >global economic collapse > war ?> food & water shortages or alternatively: natural disaster > food & water shortages >civil war 5 months ago we had a strike in France because nobody wanted to ok the government's reform on retirement, though a necessary one. Strikers decided to paralyze the entire country and prevented trucks from leaving refineries. Many gas stations ran out. Lines ran for hours at those stations that had gas...and fights broke out. People were filling up jerrycans and stocking up on food as supermarkets didn't receive new supplies. The military was quickly ordered to break the strike blocks so fuel could reach the stations. Now what do you think will happen when real shit happens? I am sure that some of you are raising huge eyebrows at some of my comments, but hey this is an open forum and I like to kick start the discussions.. Laurent Lieve wrote: I may of course be wrong, but my guess is that you are not getting many reactions, because it is difficult to react to these statements. With the best will in the world, I cannot agree with these swiping generalisations, and it just seems easier to keep quiet rather than start criticising them, or to make a big effort to find some kernel of truth in them. Sue wrote: I just watched this on YouTube and I'm curious if this interview has been discussed at all here. I was fascinated by her comparison of America to pre-WWII Germany - and the description of men as weak and women as grotesquely aggressive. What do you think? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3g-Wv-p_ug&feature=fvwrel ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #93 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe