From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #14 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, January 15 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 014 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni [Susan Tierney McNamara ] RE: Reno Sweeney's ["Robert Sartorius" ] LEGENDS OF THE CANYON [Michael Paz ] Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni [Catherine McKay ] Re: The Beat of Black Wings [Catherine McKay ] Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni [] Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni [] Re: Reno Sweeney's [dflahm@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:44:20 -0500 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni Thanks for the personal insights of your conversation with Joni, Kakki! I still think her ideal of love was described so beautifully in Jericho. Was she writing that about John Guerin? (another heartbreaker!) Take care, Sue - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of kbhla@fastmail.fm Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:22 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni Wow, what interesting, back story tidbits from the periphery of the scene! Thanks for sharing them, Richard and RR. I'm not sure that Joni was luckier than the rest of us because she had more opportunity to bouce back and easily "find another lover." Sure, she probably had her pick of every guy around wanting to be with her. However, I look at it more that she had earlier experienced a lot of heartbreak, especially with James Taylor, and I think at some point she just sort of became a little hardened and cynical about it all and thought she'd roam around like so many others did back in the 70s. Interestingly, according to Joni, she also did not partake in recreational drugs back in the 60s but later joined the crowd in 70s. I think she became existentialistic with her heart for awhile then. Dating Jack Nicholson I can kind of see because he is original and interesting but Warren Beatty? Ugh. I still shudder. By the start of the 80s, she was seeking real love again as evidenced by her songs in WTRF. She found her friend and was renewed again, until he tore out her heart. Then she found Donald. But he left her, too, and she was very hurt again. On one of my encounters with her she talked a lot about him breaking up with her. I was very surprised she would pour out her feelings to me, who is pretty much a stranger. She was so vulnerable and the gist of what she bascially said was how love is supposed to be "kind, patient and suffereth long" but it did not work that way for her in the end. I think Joni has been through the whole spectrum just like the rest of us. By the way, I just heard someone pronounce that new Zodiac sign. It sounds like O Fee U Cuss. I never would have known! It now makes Joni a Libra! Kakki, still a Leo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:10:59 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell BTW I agree very much with Sue! Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Jan 14, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Lieve Reckers wrote: I also think Joni had the easy part here: she had already come out the "winner". And she admitted herself she would not be so cool about it if she had been in O'Dell's place. It has also been occurring to me recently that, however much I think she was genuine when she wrote about heartache in her lyrics, she had some enormous advantages to help her get over the latest break-up, compared to most of us: there was always another attractive, talented, much-adored-by-others candidate ready to help her forget the previous painful experience. Not all of us are that lucky. I don't mean to be bitchy or gossipy, but this realisation really put some of the pain of her lyrics into perspective for me. So many unhappy, sensitive people in their lonely bedroom identified with those lyrics, and that is good, I am not devaluing the lyrics, but I just think that Joni was much less in a comparable situation than most of those people would ever guess. You can say that is further proof of Joni's talent, to maintain this universal appeal, and that is true. But I certainly have come to realise that on a personal level, at least when it comes to love and romance (not talking about the polio or the adoption of her child etc.), she is not really "one of us" but one of the very lucky few. Lieve ________________________________ From: Susan Tierney McNamara To: Catherine McKay ; Randy Remote ; Joni Sent: Fri, 14 January, 2011 15:29:20 Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell Yes, another reaction I had to the conversation is it was adult but it may have also been manipulative or condescending on Joni's part (although she did admit to being vulnerable). But for two women sleeping with the same man to stand in a room together and have a somewhat congenial conversation is amazing. I've been known to draw blood in such situations!!! :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:09 AM To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Randy Remote; Joni Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell Interesting because, the way I read it, while it can be seen as an "adult" conversation, it could also come across (maybe to my paranoid mind alone) as equally an extremely good manipulation on the part of Joni and an effective way of shutting the other person down before she can stir anything up. Maybe that's what adult conversations are, in some ways. There really is no good way of dealing with this stuff, not that I can think of: how to explain to someone whose boyfriend is already cheating on his wife that he's now cheating on her with you, but trying to make you feel good about it! Definitely better than a cat fight! (I know cat fights can be fun to watch too, so, mrow, MROW!) I agree with you about Joni's talking about men sometimes ad nauseum. She has to have at least one good female friend, possibly one who also plays pool! - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Randy Remote ; Joni > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:35:42 AM > Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell > > Thanks for this! I usually don't read these kind of books. The writing is > usually dismal! The thing that I like about it is a somewhat rare look into how > > > Joni relates to other women. I know she has had close women friends in her life > > > but her relationships with men are talked about much more (ad nauseum > sometimes). I love it when people have adult conversations about very > emotionally charged issues. How rare! Thanks, Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Randy > Remote > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:48 PM > To: Joni > Subject: Miss O'Dell > > Miss O'Dell > My Hard Days and Long Nights with The Beatles, The > Stones, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, and the Women They > Loved by Chris O'Dell > publ 2009 > > Very readable account of young American woman who gets a > job with Apple Records in London, eventually becoming best > friends with Patti Harrison, and is at ground zero as George and > Ringo's marriages implode. Many other exploits in the upper > strata and dark corners of rock and roll. > > First Joni mention is when O'Dell is managing CSNY's reunion > tour of '74 > At the Vancouver Airport we encountered a little problem. Joni > Mitchell was supposed to meet us at the airport, and she was > late. (I'd soon discover she was often late.) I used all my powers > of persuasion to convince the folks at the airport to hold the plane. > We were flying commercially, and we'd booked half the plane, > so they were willing to inconvenience the other passengers to > keep us happy. > > The other jc is during the Rolling Thunder Tour, road manager > O'Dell has begun a tour romance with playwright Sam Shepard, > married 32 year-old Ilinois farmboy, hired by Dylan to write a > screenplay. > A few weeks later, we were in Niagara Falls for two shows. After > the evening show I looked all over the place for Sam. I couldn't > find him anywhere. He wasn't in his hotel room. He didn't answer > his phone. Nobody had seen him. > The next morning I was headed downstairs for breakfast > when I heard someone call out, "Have you seen Sam?" > "Oh yeah, he was hanging with Joni Mitchell all evening," > someone else said. > Joni Mitchell? I thought. My heart was sinking. When I > saw Sam later that morning, I ignored him. He looked guilty. > A few nights later in Rochester, New York, he didn't show > up at the hospitality room after the show. That was where > I'd usually meet him and then we'd spend the rest of the > evening together. > Oh no, I thought, maybe this thing with Joni is more > than a flirtation. I went up to his room and knocked on the door. > "Who's there?" > "It's Chris." > Ten seconds. Thirty seconds. A minute passed. > He finally opened the door and then retreated to the bed > where he lay down, hands underneath his head, looking at > me with a sweet little smile. I sat down at the foot of the > bed, my back to the door. > "What's going on, Sam? Why aren't you downstairs?" > "I'm tired. I've just been lying around here." > Behind me I heard the door to his room open and close. > "Oh, what's that?" he said, all innocent like, looking over > my shoulder. > "Sam, who was here?" I knew perfectly well who it was. > Joni had been hiding in the bathroom, and when my back > was to the door, she sneaked out behind me. > "No one," he lied. > "You know what?" I said on my way out the door, > "You're a shit." > > As the tour continues, O'Dell decides to avoid both Joni and > Shepard, as much as possible, but in Bangor, Maine, while > delivering the next itinerary, Joni, in her dressing room, asks > O'Dell if she can sit down for a minute. > "How are you doing?" she said, putting her makeup on > the table and swiveling in her chair to look at me. Oh shit, > I thought. She wants to have "a talk." I wasn't real comfortable > with that idea. All I wanted to do was get out of there. > "I'm fine," I said cheerily. > "You know, I really admire the way that you're handling > this thing," she said. Of course, I knew what "thing" she was > referring to. > "You just seem so confident and able to deal with this," > she said. "I really respect that. I wish I could do the same." > I was stunned. Here we were, two women vying for the > same guy, but instead of doing that catty, competitive > female "I've got him," or "I hate you for having him" thing, > she was being real. Real. That really got to me. > Of course, we both knew deep down that neither one of > us "had" Sam- if he could cheat on his wife with me and then > cheat on me with Joni, he was going to cheat on Joni > sometime, too. What a crazy, conflicted situation: we were > both head over heels for a man who had a wife waiting for > him at home. > "Joni, you have no idea how much I appreciate what you > just said," I said. > And that's as far as we went with it. A few days later > Joni sang the song "Coyote" for the first time. It's a song > about Sam Shepard and how he had "a woman at home > and another woman down the hall" and he wanted her anyway. > I was the woman down the hall. I loved the lines Joni wrote > about how we licked our wounds and took temporary lovers, > using "pills and powders" to get us through the drama. > She was right. I had my pills, my powders, and my > whiskey to help me through the drama of those hard days > and nights. I knew I had to march forward-the show must > go on. > But that thing with Sam hurt like hell. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:38:34 -0500 From: "Robert Sartorius" Subject: RE: Reno Sweeney's Jerry wrote of Reno Sweeney's: "Those were the days, my friend. How I loved Reno Sweeney's. It was THE place to see anyone: Barbara Cook, Jane Olivor, Rosemary Clooney, Blossom Dearie. I'm sure list member David Lahm played there many times. Glad Cherry is alive and kicking." I only saw one show at Reno Sweeney's, but is was really good one - Peter Allen. Thought I'd add his name to Jerry's list. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:00:54 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: LEGENDS OF THE CANYON I finally got a chance to get Legends of the Canyon from Netflix and watched it last night. What a blast! I enjoyed listening to Henry and all the interviews were really fun. I love the sement on Joni but think they could have made that part alot longer. But it was fun hearing so many people gush about Joni. All the CSNY stuff was so much fun. Such egos! Such talent! Hope you all get a chance to see it. In a related story of Canadian musicians. I also got see Rush (The Lighted Stage Doc Special) on VH1 Classic and really enjoyed that as well as I have been a Rush geek for quite some time even tho I hated them at first. Couldn't get past Geddy's voice but then I did. Highly reccommended to all Rush fans Best Paz NP-Stolen Car-Patty Griffin Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:23:16 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni I think Jack Nicholson is pretty "Ugh" too but I guess he was better-looking when he was young (weren't we all!) I guess Joni was caught up in the culture of the times but also in the incestuous world of the music biz in California in the 70s, where people seemed to be constantly changing partners, but the partners were limited to that relatively small group of other California-in-the-70s musicians (with a few related artistic types thrown in for good measure.) In such a case, it's easy to understand how a person could become cynical. It must have been kid-in-a-sexual-candy-shop time, with a lot of heartbreak to follow. As for as astrology is concerned, I'm not sure how Joni would care for being a Libra. Where would DJRD be with the Scorpio connection? As for "O-fee-uck-us," I'm kinda leaning towards, "Oh, fuck us!" - ----- Original Message ---- > From: "kbhla@fastmail.fm" > To: joni@smoe.org > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 2:21:37 PM > Subject: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni > > I'm not sure that Joni was luckier than the rest of us because she had more > opportunity to bouce back and easily "find another lover." Sure, she probably > had her pick of every guy around wanting to be with her. However, I look at > it more that she had earlier experienced a lot of heartbreak, especially with > James Taylor, and I think at some point she just sort of became a little > hardened and cynical about it all and thought she'd roam around like so many > others did back in the 70s. Interestingly, according to Joni, she also did > not partake in recreational drugs back in the 60s but later joined the crowd > in 70s. I think she became existentialistic with her heart for awhile then. > Dating Jack Nicholson I can kind of see because he is original and interesting > but Warren Beatty? Ugh. I still shudder. > > By the start of the 80s, she was seeking real love again as evidenced by her > songs in WTRF. She found her friend and was renewed again, until he tore out > her heart. Then she found Donald. But he left her, too, and she was very > hurt again. On one of my encounters with her she talked a lot about him > breaking up with her. I was very surprised she would pour out her feelings to > me, who is pretty much a stranger. She was so vulnerable and the gist of what > she bascially said was how love is supposed to be "kind, patient and suffereth > long" but it did not work that way for her in the end. > > I think Joni has been through the whole spectrum just like the rest of us. > > By the way, I just heard someone pronounce that new Zodiac sign. It sounds > like O Fee U Cuss. I never would have known! It now makes Joni a Libra! > > Kakki, still a Leo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:31:19 -0800 (PST) From: MattJones Subject: The Beat of Black Wings Does anyone actually have the mp3 of Janet Jackson's cover of this? If it came out in one of the compilations, I apologize for missing it. Or was it never actually recorded? I've been listening to this song on repeat a lot lately and just realized that it was supposedly part of the shelved A Case of Joni from 2000.... - --- On Wed, 1/12/11, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Night Ride Home (Passion Play) Music To: "Lc Stanley" , "MattJones" Cc: "Joni List" Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 9:59 AM I agree with Laura. I just downloaded The Music of Joni Mitchell by Lloyd Whitesell to my Kindle. I haven't started it yet, but when talking about harmonies, I think a whole dissertation could be written on the harmonic choruses of Car On A Hill. Take care, Sue ___________________ /___________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue Tierney || || McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Lc Stanley Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:17 AM To: MattJones Cc: Joni List Subject: Re: Night Ride Home (Passion Play) Music Hi Matt, Joni is a perfect example of how a singing voice and composing voice can evolve over decades. She's gone through so many sounds and styles to become the singing voice we hear today. I don't know of any other singer/song writer who has gone through so many changes in voice, both in sound and style, as Joni has. If you choose her, you will have a very thick dissertation, and I will want to read it. Love, Laura ________________________________ From: MattJones To: joni@smoe.org; Mags Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 11:38:29 PM Subject: Re: Night Ride Home (Passion Play) Music Hi Mags (and everyone else), I'm not new to the list, but it's been quite a while since I posted anything. I'm a PhD student at The University of Virginia (you can look me up on the UVA music dept page, under grad students if you're so inclined: www.virginia.edu/music i think). I did a Masters at The University of Georgia prior to coming here, where I did some work on ecological/feminist themes in Joni's 80s and 90s work. I have presented that paper at a couple of nerdy academic conferences, and I'm in the planning stages of a dissertation on issues of voice (the singing voice, the "voice" of the composer, etc), and I'm trying to figure out how to make Joni a major part of that. At the moment, I'm working on a side project that involves the song Passion Play and just want to compare some things on the recording, the tabs available on the homepage, and the published sheet music. I'll gladly yack about my joni-related research if anyone has further questions. Don't hesitate to ask. Also, I know a long time ago there was an annual or maybe bi-annual JoniFest. Is some manifestation of that event still happening? At some point, I would love to attend and/or talk to people who attended past events. I'll send out a more formal request for that later one. Hope everyone is having a safe & happy 2011, mj - --- On Tue, 1/11/11, Mags wrote: From: Mags Subject: Re: Night Ride Home (Passion Play) Music To: joni@smoe.org, "MattJones" Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 3:54 PM dissertation on Joni? Tell us more please! Matt are you new to the list? Sorry if I don't recognize your name. Mags~ > > Matt "Trying to Figure Out How To Write My Dissertation On > Joni" Jones ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:36:41 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The Beat of Black Wings This album was never released. You can get the song here. I'm not a Janet Jackson fan, but I do like her version of this song: https://www.yousendit.com/download/bFlIV28zQzM5RmF4dnc9PQ - ----- Original Message ---- > From: MattJones > To: Joni List > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 4:31:19 PM > Subject: The Beat of Black Wings > > Does anyone actually have the mp3 of Janet Jackson's cover of this? If it came > out in one of the compilations, I apologize for missing it. Or was it never > actually recorded? I've been listening to this song on repeat a lot lately and > just realized that it was supposedly part of the shelved A Case of Joni from > 2000.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:37:33 -0800 From: Subject: Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni Yeah, Catherine, Jack is in my marginal category, too, but he has made many admiring and respectful remarks over the years regarding Joni, so I hope he treated her right. He was also in the front row at the Joni-Bob-Van concert at UCLA. Yes, from my experience Southern California was pretty out there, not only in the celebrity realm, for part of the 70s. I almost moved to the east coast back then because it was tilting more than a little off-kilter here for awhile. One tipping point for me was seeing a large duffel bag of cocaine being delivered to an otherwise nondescript neighborhood beach party. I always thought Hissing captured the disconnect perfectly. Despite all that was going on the 60s it seemed a somehow more sweeter and innocent time in comparison. Maybe now that Joni is a Libra, she can be always balancing the scales instead of fighting between the serpent and the eagle ;-) You also wrote: "As for "O-fee-uck-us," I'm kinda leaning towards, "Oh, fuck us!" LOL! How did they ever come up with THAT one?! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:18:47 -0800 From: Subject: Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni Hi Sue, I never before made the connection between Jericho and Guerin but can absolutely see it now. Needing (his) confidence and the gift of (his) extra time, a rich exchange and warm arrangement all fit right in. He claimed to have a lot of input in her move to get a band and also claimed some co-authorship and collaboration on some of her songs of the time. Yes, another heartbreaker. Joni sure has a lot of stories to write. I wonder when we will ever see her long awaited autobiography and finally hear it all from the source. Kakki Thanks for the personal insights of your conversation with Joni, Kakki! I still think her ideal of love was described so beautifully in Jericho. Was she writing that about John Guerin? (another heartbreaker!) Take care, Sue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:25:34 -0500 (EST) From: dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Reno Sweeney's Fact is, I never did play at Reno Sweeney's although I did see a show or two there. One was by Ronee Blakeley; she sang onscreen in the film NASHVILLE. DAVID LAHM - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Sartorius To: joni Cc: 'Gerald Notaro' Sent: Fri, Jan 14, 2011 3:43 pm Subject: RE: Reno Sweeney's Jerry wrote of Reno Sweeney's: "Those were the days, my friend. How I loved Reno Sweeney's. It was THE place to see anyone: Barbara Cook, Jane Olivor, Rosemary Clooney, Blossom Dearie. I'm sure list member David Lahm played there many times. Glad Cherry is alive and kicking." I only saw one show at Reno Sweeney's, but is was really good one - Peter Allen. Thought I'd add his name to Jerry's list. Bobsart ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #14 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe