From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #13 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, January 14 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 013 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Miss O'Dell [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: Miss O'Dell [Catherine McKay ] RE: Miss O'Dell [Susan Tierney McNamara ] re: and did you know (sjc) [c Karma ] Re: and did you know (sjc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Miss O'Dell [Lieve Reckers ] Re: and did you know (sjc) [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: and did you know (sjc) [Dave Blackburn ] RE: Miss O'Dell [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: Miss O'dell [Joe Jones ] RE: Miss O'Dell [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: Miss O'Dell [Catherine McKay ] Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:35:42 -0500 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell Thanks for this! I usually don't read these kind of books. The writing is usually dismal! The thing that I like about it is a somewhat rare look into how Joni relates to other women. I know she has had close women friends in her life but her relationships with men are talked about much more (ad nauseum sometimes). I love it when people have adult conversations about very emotionally charged issues. How rare! Thanks, Sue - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Randy Remote Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:48 PM To: Joni Subject: Miss O'Dell Miss O'Dell My Hard Days and Long Nights with The Beatles, The Stones, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, and the Women They Loved by Chris O'Dell publ 2009 Very readable account of young American woman who gets a job with Apple Records in London, eventually becoming best friends with Patti Harrison, and is at ground zero as George and Ringo's marriages implode. Many other exploits in the upper strata and dark corners of rock and roll. First Joni mention is when O'Dell is managing CSNY's reunion tour of '74 At the Vancouver Airport we encountered a little problem. Joni Mitchell was supposed to meet us at the airport, and she was late. (I'd soon discover she was often late.) I used all my powers of persuasion to convince the folks at the airport to hold the plane. We were flying commercially, and we'd booked half the plane, so they were willing to inconvenience the other passengers to keep us happy. The other jc is during the Rolling Thunder Tour, road manager O'Dell has begun a tour romance with playwright Sam Shepard, married 32 year-old Ilinois farmboy, hired by Dylan to write a screenplay. A few weeks later, we were in Niagara Falls for two shows. After the evening show I looked all over the place for Sam. I couldn't find him anywhere. He wasn't in his hotel room. He didn't answer his phone. Nobody had seen him. The next morning I was headed downstairs for breakfast when I heard someone call out, "Have you seen Sam?" "Oh yeah, he was hanging with Joni Mitchell all evening," someone else said. Joni Mitchell? I thought. My heart was sinking. When I saw Sam later that morning, I ignored him. He looked guilty. A few nights later in Rochester, New York, he didn't show up at the hospitality room after the show. That was where I'd usually meet him and then we'd spend the rest of the evening together. Oh no, I thought, maybe this thing with Joni is more than a flirtation. I went up to his room and knocked on the door. "Who's there?" "It's Chris." Ten seconds. Thirty seconds. A minute passed. He finally opened the door and then retreated to the bed where he lay down, hands underneath his head, looking at me with a sweet little smile. I sat down at the foot of the bed, my back to the door. "What's going on, Sam? Why aren't you downstairs?" "I'm tired. I've just been lying around here." Behind me I heard the door to his room open and close. "Oh, what's that?" he said, all innocent like, looking over my shoulder. "Sam, who was here?" I knew perfectly well who it was. Joni had been hiding in the bathroom, and when my back was to the door, she sneaked out behind me. "No one," he lied. "You know what?" I said on my way out the door, "You're a shit." As the tour continues, O'Dell decides to avoid both Joni and Shepard, as much as possible, but in Bangor, Maine, while delivering the next itinerary, Joni, in her dressing room, asks O'Dell if she can sit down for a minute. "How are you doing?" she said, putting her makeup on the table and swiveling in her chair to look at me. Oh shit, I thought. She wants to have "a talk." I wasn't real comfortable with that idea. All I wanted to do was get out of there. "I'm fine," I said cheerily. "You know, I really admire the way that you're handling this thing," she said. Of course, I knew what "thing" she was referring to. "You just seem so confident and able to deal with this," she said. "I really respect that. I wish I could do the same." I was stunned. Here we were, two women vying for the same guy, but instead of doing that catty, competitive female "I've got him," or "I hate you for having him" thing, she was being real. Real. That really got to me. Of course, we both knew deep down that neither one of us "had" Sam- if he could cheat on his wife with me and then cheat on me with Joni, he was going to cheat on Joni sometime, too. What a crazy, conflicted situation: we were both head over heels for a man who had a wife waiting for him at home. "Joni, you have no idea how much I appreciate what you just said," I said. And that's as far as we went with it. A few days later Joni sang the song "Coyote" for the first time. It's a song about Sam Shepard and how he had "a woman at home and another woman down the hall" and he wanted her anyway. I was the woman down the hall. I loved the lines Joni wrote about how we licked our wounds and took temporary lovers, using "pills and powders" to get us through the drama. She was right. I had my pills, my powders, and my whiskey to help me through the drama of those hard days and nights. I knew I had to march forward-the show must go on. But that thing with Sam hurt like hell. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 07:09:00 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell Interesting because, the way I read it, while it can be seen as an "adult" conversation, it could also come across (maybe to my paranoid mind alone) as equally an extremely good manipulation on the part of Joni and an effective way of shutting the other person down before she can stir anything up. Maybe that's what adult conversations are, in some ways. There really is no good way of dealing with this stuff, not that I can think of: how to explain to someone whose boyfriend is already cheating on his wife that he's now cheating on her with you, but trying to make you feel good about it! Definitely better than a cat fight! (I know cat fights can be fun to watch too, so, mrow, MROW!) I agree with you about Joni's talking about men sometimes ad nauseum. She has to have at least one good female friend, possibly one who also plays pool! - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Randy Remote ; Joni > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:35:42 AM > Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell > > Thanks for this! I usually don't read these kind of books. The writing is >usually dismal! The thing that I like about it is a somewhat rare look into how >Joni relates to other women. I know she has had close women friends in her life >but her relationships with men are talked about much more (ad nauseum >sometimes). I love it when people have adult conversations about very >emotionally charged issues. How rare! Thanks, Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Randy >Remote > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:48 PM > To: Joni > Subject: Miss O'Dell > > Miss O'Dell > My Hard Days and Long Nights with The Beatles, The > Stones, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, and the Women They > Loved by Chris O'Dell > publ 2009 > > Very readable account of young American woman who gets a > job with Apple Records in London, eventually becoming best > friends with Patti Harrison, and is at ground zero as George and > Ringo's marriages implode. Many other exploits in the upper > strata and dark corners of rock and roll. > > First Joni mention is when O'Dell is managing CSNY's reunion > tour of '74 > At the Vancouver Airport we encountered a little problem. Joni > Mitchell was supposed to meet us at the airport, and she was > late. (I'd soon discover she was often late.) I used all my powers > of persuasion to convince the folks at the airport to hold the plane. > We were flying commercially, and we'd booked half the plane, > so they were willing to inconvenience the other passengers to > keep us happy. > > The other jc is during the Rolling Thunder Tour, road manager > O'Dell has begun a tour romance with playwright Sam Shepard, > married 32 year-old Ilinois farmboy, hired by Dylan to write a > screenplay. > A few weeks later, we were in Niagara Falls for two shows. After > the evening show I looked all over the place for Sam. I couldn't > find him anywhere. He wasn't in his hotel room. He didn't answer > his phone. Nobody had seen him. > The next morning I was headed downstairs for breakfast > when I heard someone call out, "Have you seen Sam?" > "Oh yeah, he was hanging with Joni Mitchell all evening," > someone else said. > Joni Mitchell? I thought. My heart was sinking. When I > saw Sam later that morning, I ignored him. He looked guilty. > A few nights later in Rochester, New York, he didn't show > up at the hospitality room after the show. That was where > I'd usually meet him and then we'd spend the rest of the > evening together. > Oh no, I thought, maybe this thing with Joni is more > than a flirtation. I went up to his room and knocked on the door. > "Who's there?" > "It's Chris." > Ten seconds. Thirty seconds. A minute passed. > He finally opened the door and then retreated to the bed > where he lay down, hands underneath his head, looking at > me with a sweet little smile. I sat down at the foot of the > bed, my back to the door. > "What's going on, Sam? Why aren't you downstairs?" > "I'm tired. I've just been lying around here." > Behind me I heard the door to his room open and close. > "Oh, what's that?" he said, all innocent like, looking over > my shoulder. > "Sam, who was here?" I knew perfectly well who it was. > Joni had been hiding in the bathroom, and when my back > was to the door, she sneaked out behind me. > "No one," he lied. > "You know what?" I said on my way out the door, > "You're a shit." > > As the tour continues, O'Dell decides to avoid both Joni and > Shepard, as much as possible, but in Bangor, Maine, while > delivering the next itinerary, Joni, in her dressing room, asks > O'Dell if she can sit down for a minute. > "How are you doing?" she said, putting her makeup on > the table and swiveling in her chair to look at me. Oh shit, > I thought. She wants to have "a talk." I wasn't real comfortable > with that idea. All I wanted to do was get out of there. > "I'm fine," I said cheerily. > "You know, I really admire the way that you're handling > this thing," she said. Of course, I knew what "thing" she was > referring to. > "You just seem so confident and able to deal with this," > she said. "I really respect that. I wish I could do the same." > I was stunned. Here we were, two women vying for the > same guy, but instead of doing that catty, competitive > female "I've got him," or "I hate you for having him" thing, > she was being real. Real. That really got to me. > Of course, we both knew deep down that neither one of > us "had" Sam- if he could cheat on his wife with me and then > cheat on me with Joni, he was going to cheat on Joni > sometime, too. What a crazy, conflicted situation: we were > both head over heels for a man who had a wife waiting for > him at home. > "Joni, you have no idea how much I appreciate what you > just said," I said. > And that's as far as we went with it. A few days later > Joni sang the song "Coyote" for the first time. It's a song > about Sam Shepard and how he had "a woman at home > and another woman down the hall" and he wanted her anyway. > I was the woman down the hall. I loved the lines Joni wrote > about how we licked our wounds and took temporary lovers, > using "pills and powders" to get us through the drama. > She was right. I had my pills, my powders, and my > whiskey to help me through the drama of those hard days > and nights. I knew I had to march forward-the show must > go on. > But that thing with Sam hurt like hell. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:29:20 -0500 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell Yes, another reaction I had to the conversation is it was adult but it may have also been manipulative or condescending on Joni's part (although she did admit to being vulnerable). But for two women sleeping with the same man to stand in a room together and have a somewhat congenial conversation is amazing. I've been known to draw blood in such situations!!! :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:09 AM To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Randy Remote; Joni Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell Interesting because, the way I read it, while it can be seen as an "adult" conversation, it could also come across (maybe to my paranoid mind alone) as equally an extremely good manipulation on the part of Joni and an effective way of shutting the other person down before she can stir anything up. Maybe that's what adult conversations are, in some ways. There really is no good way of dealing with this stuff, not that I can think of: how to explain to someone whose boyfriend is already cheating on his wife that he's now cheating on her with you, but trying to make you feel good about it! Definitely better than a cat fight! (I know cat fights can be fun to watch too, so, mrow, MROW!) I agree with you about Joni's talking about men sometimes ad nauseum. She has to have at least one good female friend, possibly one who also plays pool! - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Randy Remote ; Joni > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:35:42 AM > Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell > > Thanks for this! I usually don't read these kind of books. The writing is >usually dismal! The thing that I like about it is a somewhat rare look into how >Joni relates to other women. I know she has had close women friends in her life >but her relationships with men are talked about much more (ad nauseum >sometimes). I love it when people have adult conversations about very >emotionally charged issues. How rare! Thanks, Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Randy >Remote > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:48 PM > To: Joni > Subject: Miss O'Dell > > Miss O'Dell > My Hard Days and Long Nights with The Beatles, The > Stones, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, and the Women They > Loved by Chris O'Dell > publ 2009 > > Very readable account of young American woman who gets a > job with Apple Records in London, eventually becoming best > friends with Patti Harrison, and is at ground zero as George and > Ringo's marriages implode. Many other exploits in the upper > strata and dark corners of rock and roll. > > First Joni mention is when O'Dell is managing CSNY's reunion > tour of '74 > At the Vancouver Airport we encountered a little problem. Joni > Mitchell was supposed to meet us at the airport, and she was > late. (I'd soon discover she was often late.) I used all my powers > of persuasion to convince the folks at the airport to hold the plane. > We were flying commercially, and we'd booked half the plane, > so they were willing to inconvenience the other passengers to > keep us happy. > > The other jc is during the Rolling Thunder Tour, road manager > O'Dell has begun a tour romance with playwright Sam Shepard, > married 32 year-old Ilinois farmboy, hired by Dylan to write a > screenplay. > A few weeks later, we were in Niagara Falls for two shows. After > the evening show I looked all over the place for Sam. I couldn't > find him anywhere. He wasn't in his hotel room. He didn't answer > his phone. Nobody had seen him. > The next morning I was headed downstairs for breakfast > when I heard someone call out, "Have you seen Sam?" > "Oh yeah, he was hanging with Joni Mitchell all evening," > someone else said. > Joni Mitchell? I thought. My heart was sinking. When I > saw Sam later that morning, I ignored him. He looked guilty. > A few nights later in Rochester, New York, he didn't show > up at the hospitality room after the show. That was where > I'd usually meet him and then we'd spend the rest of the > evening together. > Oh no, I thought, maybe this thing with Joni is more > than a flirtation. I went up to his room and knocked on the door. > "Who's there?" > "It's Chris." > Ten seconds. Thirty seconds. A minute passed. > He finally opened the door and then retreated to the bed > where he lay down, hands underneath his head, looking at > me with a sweet little smile. I sat down at the foot of the > bed, my back to the door. > "What's going on, Sam? Why aren't you downstairs?" > "I'm tired. I've just been lying around here." > Behind me I heard the door to his room open and close. > "Oh, what's that?" he said, all innocent like, looking over > my shoulder. > "Sam, who was here?" I knew perfectly well who it was. > Joni had been hiding in the bathroom, and when my back > was to the door, she sneaked out behind me. > "No one," he lied. > "You know what?" I said on my way out the door, > "You're a shit." > > As the tour continues, O'Dell decides to avoid both Joni and > Shepard, as much as possible, but in Bangor, Maine, while > delivering the next itinerary, Joni, in her dressing room, asks > O'Dell if she can sit down for a minute. > "How are you doing?" she said, putting her makeup on > the table and swiveling in her chair to look at me. Oh shit, > I thought. She wants to have "a talk." I wasn't real comfortable > with that idea. All I wanted to do was get out of there. > "I'm fine," I said cheerily. > "You know, I really admire the way that you're handling > this thing," she said. Of course, I knew what "thing" she was > referring to. > "You just seem so confident and able to deal with this," > she said. "I really respect that. I wish I could do the same." > I was stunned. Here we were, two women vying for the > same guy, but instead of doing that catty, competitive > female "I've got him," or "I hate you for having him" thing, > she was being real. Real. That really got to me. > Of course, we both knew deep down that neither one of > us "had" Sam- if he could cheat on his wife with me and then > cheat on me with Joni, he was going to cheat on Joni > sometime, too. What a crazy, conflicted situation: we were > both head over heels for a man who had a wife waiting for > him at home. > "Joni, you have no idea how much I appreciate what you > just said," I said. > And that's as far as we went with it. A few days later > Joni sang the song "Coyote" for the first time. It's a song > about Sam Shepard and how he had "a woman at home > and another woman down the hall" and he wanted her anyway. > I was the woman down the hall. I loved the lines Joni wrote > about how we licked our wounds and took temporary lovers, > using "pills and powders" to get us through the drama. > She was right. I had my pills, my powders, and my > whiskey to help me through the drama of those hard days > and nights. I knew I had to march forward-the show must > go on. > But that thing with Sam hurt like hell. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:48:40 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: re: and did you know (sjc) I love this description for the Joni Mitchell Brazilian panties: http://www.journelle.com/marlies-dekkers-joni-mitchell-brazilian-brief.html We are women of heart and mind, never enough time on our hands, sometimes we are just like silly girls, when love makes fools of us. We are ladies in cities, and we think we love them all (the one who writes us letters, the one who sometimes calls), we are, sometimes, much too busy being free. A taste for the unconventional, a fierce joy in the every day, a tiny velvet coyote to take with you everywhere , no regrets coyote, none at all. Hmmm. Be the first one to review...? Oh Margaret! CC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 08:01:48 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: and did you know (sjc) WOW! $62 a pair! And that's the sale price! These women may not have enough time on their hands, but they apparently have way too much money! - ----- Original Message ---- > From: c Karma > To: joni@smoe.org; guitarzan@hughes.net > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 10:48:40 AM > Subject: re: and did you know (sjc) > > I love this description for the Joni Mitchell Brazilian panties: > http://www.journelle.com/marlies-dekkers-joni-mitchell-brazilian-brief.html > We are women of heart and mind, never enough time on our hands, sometimes we > are just like silly girls, when love makes fools of us. We are ladies in > cities, and we think we love them all (the one who writes us letters, the one > who sometimes calls), we are, sometimes, much too busy being free. A taste for > the unconventional, a fierce joy in the every day, a tiny velvet coyote to > take with you everywhere , no regrets coyote, none at all. > Hmmm. Be the first one to review...? > Oh Margaret! > CC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:04:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell I also think Joni had the easy part here: she had already come out the "winner". And she admitted herself she would not be so cool about it if she had been in O'Dell's place. It has also been occurring to me recently that, however much I think she was genuine when she wrote about heartache in her lyrics, she had some enormous advantages to help her get over the latest break-up, compared to most of us: there was always another attractive, talented, much-adored-by-others candidate ready to help her forget the previous painful experience. Not all of us are that lucky. I don't mean to be bitchy or gossipy, but this realisation really put some of the pain of her lyrics into perspective for me. So many unhappy, sensitive people in their lonely bedroom identified with those lyrics, and that is good, I am not devaluing the lyrics, but I just think that Joni was much less in a comparable situation than most of those people would ever guess. You can say that is further proof of Joni's talent, to maintain this universal appeal, and that is true. But I certainly have come to realise that on a personal level, at least when it comes to love and romance (not talking about the polio or the adoption of her child etc.), she is not really "one of us" but one of the very lucky few. Lieve ________________________________ From: Susan Tierney McNamara To: Catherine McKay ; Randy Remote ; Joni Sent: Fri, 14 January, 2011 15:29:20 Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell Yes, another reaction I had to the conversation is it was adult but it may have also been manipulative or condescending on Joni's part (although she did admit to being vulnerable). But for two women sleeping with the same man to stand in a room together and have a somewhat congenial conversation is amazing. I've been known to draw blood in such situations!!! :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:09 AM To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Randy Remote; Joni Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell Interesting because, the way I read it, while it can be seen as an "adult" conversation, it could also come across (maybe to my paranoid mind alone) as equally an extremely good manipulation on the part of Joni and an effective way of shutting the other person down before she can stir anything up. Maybe that's what adult conversations are, in some ways. There really is no good way of dealing with this stuff, not that I can think of: how to explain to someone whose boyfriend is already cheating on his wife that he's now cheating on her with you, but trying to make you feel good about it! Definitely better than a cat fight! (I know cat fights can be fun to watch too, so, mrow, MROW!) I agree with you about Joni's talking about men sometimes ad nauseum. She has to have at least one good female friend, possibly one who also plays pool! - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Randy Remote ; Joni > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:35:42 AM > Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell > > Thanks for this! I usually don't read these kind of books. The writing is >usually dismal! The thing that I like about it is a somewhat rare look into how > > >Joni relates to other women. I know she has had close women friends in her life > > >but her relationships with men are talked about much more (ad nauseum >sometimes). I love it when people have adult conversations about very >emotionally charged issues. How rare! Thanks, Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Randy >Remote > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:48 PM > To: Joni > Subject: Miss O'Dell > > Miss O'Dell > My Hard Days and Long Nights with The Beatles, The > Stones, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, and the Women They > Loved by Chris O'Dell > publ 2009 > > Very readable account of young American woman who gets a > job with Apple Records in London, eventually becoming best > friends with Patti Harrison, and is at ground zero as George and > Ringo's marriages implode. Many other exploits in the upper > strata and dark corners of rock and roll. > > First Joni mention is when O'Dell is managing CSNY's reunion > tour of '74 > At the Vancouver Airport we encountered a little problem. Joni > Mitchell was supposed to meet us at the airport, and she was > late. (I'd soon discover she was often late.) I used all my powers > of persuasion to convince the folks at the airport to hold the plane. > We were flying commercially, and we'd booked half the plane, > so they were willing to inconvenience the other passengers to > keep us happy. > > The other jc is during the Rolling Thunder Tour, road manager > O'Dell has begun a tour romance with playwright Sam Shepard, > married 32 year-old Ilinois farmboy, hired by Dylan to write a > screenplay. > A few weeks later, we were in Niagara Falls for two shows. After > the evening show I looked all over the place for Sam. I couldn't > find him anywhere. He wasn't in his hotel room. He didn't answer > his phone. Nobody had seen him. > The next morning I was headed downstairs for breakfast > when I heard someone call out, "Have you seen Sam?" > "Oh yeah, he was hanging with Joni Mitchell all evening," > someone else said. > Joni Mitchell? I thought. My heart was sinking. When I > saw Sam later that morning, I ignored him. He looked guilty. > A few nights later in Rochester, New York, he didn't show > up at the hospitality room after the show. That was where > I'd usually meet him and then we'd spend the rest of the > evening together. > Oh no, I thought, maybe this thing with Joni is more > than a flirtation. I went up to his room and knocked on the door. > "Who's there?" > "It's Chris." > Ten seconds. Thirty seconds. A minute passed. > He finally opened the door and then retreated to the bed > where he lay down, hands underneath his head, looking at > me with a sweet little smile. I sat down at the foot of the > bed, my back to the door. > "What's going on, Sam? Why aren't you downstairs?" > "I'm tired. I've just been lying around here." > Behind me I heard the door to his room open and close. > "Oh, what's that?" he said, all innocent like, looking over > my shoulder. > "Sam, who was here?" I knew perfectly well who it was. > Joni had been hiding in the bathroom, and when my back > was to the door, she sneaked out behind me. > "No one," he lied. > "You know what?" I said on my way out the door, > "You're a shit." > > As the tour continues, O'Dell decides to avoid both Joni and > Shepard, as much as possible, but in Bangor, Maine, while > delivering the next itinerary, Joni, in her dressing room, asks > O'Dell if she can sit down for a minute. > "How are you doing?" she said, putting her makeup on > the table and swiveling in her chair to look at me. Oh shit, > I thought. She wants to have "a talk." I wasn't real comfortable > with that idea. All I wanted to do was get out of there. > "I'm fine," I said cheerily. > "You know, I really admire the way that you're handling > this thing," she said. Of course, I knew what "thing" she was > referring to. > "You just seem so confident and able to deal with this," > she said. "I really respect that. I wish I could do the same." > I was stunned. Here we were, two women vying for the > same guy, but instead of doing that catty, competitive > female "I've got him," or "I hate you for having him" thing, > she was being real. Real. That really got to me. > Of course, we both knew deep down that neither one of > us "had" Sam- if he could cheat on his wife with me and then > cheat on me with Joni, he was going to cheat on Joni > sometime, too. What a crazy, conflicted situation: we were > both head over heels for a man who had a wife waiting for > him at home. > "Joni, you have no idea how much I appreciate what you > just said," I said. > And that's as far as we went with it. A few days later > Joni sang the song "Coyote" for the first time. It's a song > about Sam Shepard and how he had "a woman at home > and another woman down the hall" and he wanted her anyway. > I was the woman down the hall. I loved the lines Joni wrote > about how we licked our wounds and took temporary lovers, > using "pills and powders" to get us through the drama. > She was right. I had my pills, my powders, and my > whiskey to help me through the drama of those hard days > and nights. I knew I had to march forward-the show must > go on. > But that thing with Sam hurt like hell. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:06:29 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: and did you know (sjc) Probably NOT what Gail and Louise were wearing... Bob NP: Cool For August, "Big Night" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 08:16:55 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: and did you know (sjc) I assume we're going to refer to this in future as the Underwear thread? On Jan 14, 2011, at 8:06 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Probably NOT what Gail and Louise were wearing... > > Bob > > NP: Cool For August, "Big Night" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:10:32 -0500 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell I agree here Lieve. I was talking to a friend of mine the other night. He asked me why I loved Joni so much (he is not a fan), and I said that I envy so much the ability she has to use her amazing gift to its fullest. I don't think it's a matter of privilege, since she came from pretty humble beginnings, but an overwhelming drive to put art first. Maybe it's the nature of her gift that it demands to be first, but not all of us have that courage. It's pretty amazing. I can paint pretty good but my art is like a neglected child that starves in a corner while I carry on with more mundane tasks. Boo hoo. :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Lieve Reckers [mailto:lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:05 AM To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Catherine McKay; Randy Remote; Joni Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell I also think Joni had the easy part here: she had already come out the "winner". And she admitted herself she would not be so cool about it if she had been in O'Dell's place. It has also been occurring to me recently that, however much I think she was genuine when she wrote about heartache in her lyrics, she had some enormous advantages to help her get over the latest break-up, compared to most of us: there was always another attractive, talented, much-adored-by-others candidate ready to help her forget the previous painful experience. Not all of us are that lucky. I don't mean to be bitchy or gossipy, but this realisation really put some of the pain of her lyrics into perspective for me. So many unhappy, sensitive people in their lonely bedroom identified with those lyrics, and that is good, I am not devaluing the lyrics, but I just think that Joni was much less in a comparable situation than most of those people would ever guess. You can say that is further proof of Joni's talent, to maintain this universal appeal, and that is true. But I certainly have come to realise that on a personal level, at least when it comes to love and romance (not talking about the polio or the adoption of her child etc.), she is not really "one of us" but one of the very lucky few. Lieve ________________________________ From: Susan Tierney McNamara To: Catherine McKay ; Randy Remote ; Joni Sent: Fri, 14 January, 2011 15:29:20 Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell Yes, another reaction I had to the conversation is it was adult but it may have also been manipulative or condescending on Joni's part (although she did admit to being vulnerable). But for two women sleeping with the same man to stand in a room together and have a somewhat congenial conversation is amazing. I've been known to draw blood in such situations!!! :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:09 AM To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Randy Remote; Joni Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell Interesting because, the way I read it, while it can be seen as an "adult" conversation, it could also come across (maybe to my paranoid mind alone) as equally an extremely good manipulation on the part of Joni and an effective way of shutting the other person down before she can stir anything up. Maybe that's what adult conversations are, in some ways. There really is no good way of dealing with this stuff, not that I can think of: how to explain to someone whose boyfriend is already cheating on his wife that he's now cheating on her with you, but trying to make you feel good about it! Definitely better than a cat fight! (I know cat fights can be fun to watch too, so, mrow, MROW!) I agree with you about Joni's talking about men sometimes ad nauseum. She has to have at least one good female friend, possibly one who also plays pool! - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Randy Remote ; Joni > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:35:42 AM > Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell > > Thanks for this! I usually don't read these kind of books. The writing is >usually dismal! The thing that I like about it is a somewhat rare look into how > > >Joni relates to other women. I know she has had close women friends in her life > > >but her relationships with men are talked about much more (ad nauseum >sometimes). I love it when people have adult conversations about very >emotionally charged issues. How rare! Thanks, Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Randy >Remote > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:48 PM > To: Joni > Subject: Miss O'Dell > > Miss O'Dell > My Hard Days and Long Nights with The Beatles, The > Stones, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, and the Women They > Loved by Chris O'Dell > publ 2009 > > Very readable account of young American woman who gets a > job with Apple Records in London, eventually becoming best > friends with Patti Harrison, and is at ground zero as George and > Ringo's marriages implode. Many other exploits in the upper > strata and dark corners of rock and roll. > > First Joni mention is when O'Dell is managing CSNY's reunion > tour of '74 > At the Vancouver Airport we encountered a little problem. Joni > Mitchell was supposed to meet us at the airport, and she was > late. (I'd soon discover she was often late.) I used all my powers > of persuasion to convince the folks at the airport to hold the plane. > We were flying commercially, and we'd booked half the plane, > so they were willing to inconvenience the other passengers to > keep us happy. > > The other jc is during the Rolling Thunder Tour, road manager > O'Dell has begun a tour romance with playwright Sam Shepard, > married 32 year-old Ilinois farmboy, hired by Dylan to write a > screenplay. > A few weeks later, we were in Niagara Falls for two shows. After > the evening show I looked all over the place for Sam. I couldn't > find him anywhere. He wasn't in his hotel room. He didn't answer > his phone. Nobody had seen him. > The next morning I was headed downstairs for breakfast > when I heard someone call out, "Have you seen Sam?" > "Oh yeah, he was hanging with Joni Mitchell all evening," > someone else said. > Joni Mitchell? I thought. My heart was sinking. When I > saw Sam later that morning, I ignored him. He looked guilty. > A few nights later in Rochester, New York, he didn't show > up at the hospitality room after the show. That was where > I'd usually meet him and then we'd spend the rest of the > evening together. > Oh no, I thought, maybe this thing with Joni is more > than a flirtation. I went up to his room and knocked on the door. > "Who's there?" > "It's Chris." > Ten seconds. Thirty seconds. A minute passed. > He finally opened the door and then retreated to the bed > where he lay down, hands underneath his head, looking at > me with a sweet little smile. I sat down at the foot of the > bed, my back to the door. > "What's going on, Sam? Why aren't you downstairs?" > "I'm tired. I've just been lying around here." > Behind me I heard the door to his room open and close. > "Oh, what's that?" he said, all innocent like, looking over > my shoulder. > "Sam, who was here?" I knew perfectly well who it was. > Joni had been hiding in the bathroom, and when my back > was to the door, she sneaked out behind me. > "No one," he lied. > "You know what?" I said on my way out the door, > "You're a shit." > > As the tour continues, O'Dell decides to avoid both Joni and > Shepard, as much as possible, but in Bangor, Maine, while > delivering the next itinerary, Joni, in her dressing room, asks > O'Dell if she can sit down for a minute. > "How are you doing?" she said, putting her makeup on > the table and swiveling in her chair to look at me. Oh shit, > I thought. She wants to have "a talk." I wasn't real comfortable > with that idea. All I wanted to do was get out of there. > "I'm fine," I said cheerily. > "You know, I really admire the way that you're handling > this thing," she said. Of course, I knew what "thing" she was > referring to. > "You just seem so confident and able to deal with this," > she said. "I really respect that. I wish I could do the same." > I was stunned. Here we were, two women vying for the > same guy, but instead of doing that catty, competitive > female "I've got him," or "I hate you for having him" thing, > she was being real. Real. That really got to me. > Of course, we both knew deep down that neither one of > us "had" Sam- if he could cheat on his wife with me and then > cheat on me with Joni, he was going to cheat on Joni > sometime, too. What a crazy, conflicted situation: we were > both head over heels for a man who had a wife waiting for > him at home. > "Joni, you have no idea how much I appreciate what you > just said," I said. > And that's as far as we went with it. A few days later > Joni sang the song "Coyote" for the first time. It's a song > about Sam Shepard and how he had "a woman at home > and another woman down the hall" and he wanted her anyway. > I was the woman down the hall. I loved the lines Joni wrote > about how we licked our wounds and took temporary lovers, > using "pills and powders" to get us through the drama. > She was right. I had my pills, my powders, and my > whiskey to help me through the drama of those hard days > and nights. I knew I had to march forward-the show must > go on. > But that thing with Sam hurt like hell. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:47:07 +0000 From: Joe Jones Subject: Re: Miss O'dell Thanks, excellent, very elucidatory. Cheers - Joe *My Hard Days and Long Nights with The Beatles, The* Stones, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, and the Women They Loved by Chris O'Dell publ 2009 *Very readable account of young........* - -- - -- Joe Jones +44 7831 914094 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:36:44 -0500 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell That was my new year's resolution last year!!! :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 1:36 PM To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Lieve Reckers; Randy Remote; Joni Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell Well, I guess all any of us really needs to do is to be young, beautiful and incredibly talented, and then we'll have no trouble finding a date. That's my new year's resolution - for next year. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Lieve Reckers ; Catherine McKay >; Randy Remote ; Joni > > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 12:10:32 PM > Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell > > I agree here Lieve. I was talking to a friend of mine the other night. He >asked me why I loved Joni so much (he is not a fan), and I said that I envy so >much the ability she has to use her amazing gift to its fullest. I don't think >it's a matter of privilege, since she came from pretty humble beginnings, but an >overwhelming drive to put art first. Maybe it's the nature of her gift that it >demands to be first, but not all of us have that courage. It's pretty amazing. >I can paint pretty good but my art is like a neglected child that starves in a >corner while I carry on with more mundane tasks. Boo hoo. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lieve Reckers [mailto:lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:05 AM > To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Catherine McKay; Randy Remote; Joni > Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell > > I also think Joni had the easy part here: she had already come out the > "winner". And she admitted herself she would not be so cool about it if she >had > > been in O'Dell's place. > > It has also been occurring to me recently that, however much I think she was > genuine when she wrote about heartache in her lyrics, she had some enormous > advantages to help her get over the latest break-up, compared to most of us: > there was always another attractive, talented, much-adored-by-others candidate > ready to help her forget the previous painful experience. Not all of us are > that lucky. > > I don't mean to be bitchy or gossipy, but this realisation really put some of > the pain of her lyrics into perspective for me. So many unhappy, sensitive > people in their lonely bedroom identified with those lyrics, and that is good, >I > > am not devaluing the lyrics, but I just think that Joni was much less in a > comparable situation than most of those people would ever guess. You can say > that is further proof of Joni's talent, to maintain this universal appeal, and > that is true. But I certainly have come to realise that on a personal level, >at > > least when it comes to love and romance (not talking about the polio or the > adoption of her child etc.), she is not really "one of us" but one of the very > lucky few. > > Lieve > ________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell Well, I guess all any of us really needs to do is to be young, beautiful and incredibly talented, and then we'll have no trouble finding a date. That's my new year's resolution - for next year. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Lieve Reckers ; Catherine McKay >; Randy Remote ; Joni > > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 12:10:32 PM > Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell > > I agree here Lieve. I was talking to a friend of mine the other night. He >asked me why I loved Joni so much (he is not a fan), and I said that I envy so >much the ability she has to use her amazing gift to its fullest. I don't think >it's a matter of privilege, since she came from pretty humble beginnings, but an >overwhelming drive to put art first. Maybe it's the nature of her gift that it >demands to be first, but not all of us have that courage. It's pretty amazing. >I can paint pretty good but my art is like a neglected child that starves in a >corner while I carry on with more mundane tasks. Boo hoo. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lieve Reckers [mailto:lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:05 AM > To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Catherine McKay; Randy Remote; Joni > Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell > > I also think Joni had the easy part here: she had already come out the > "winner". And she admitted herself she would not be so cool about it if she >had > > been in O'Dell's place. > > It has also been occurring to me recently that, however much I think she was > genuine when she wrote about heartache in her lyrics, she had some enormous > advantages to help her get over the latest break-up, compared to most of us: > there was always another attractive, talented, much-adored-by-others candidate > ready to help her forget the previous painful experience. Not all of us are > that lucky. > > I don't mean to be bitchy or gossipy, but this realisation really put some of > the pain of her lyrics into perspective for me. So many unhappy, sensitive > people in their lonely bedroom identified with those lyrics, and that is good, >I > > am not devaluing the lyrics, but I just think that Joni was much less in a > comparable situation than most of those people would ever guess. You can say > that is further proof of Joni's talent, to maintain this universal appeal, and > that is true. But I certainly have come to realise that on a personal level, >at > > least when it comes to love and romance (not talking about the polio or the > adoption of her child etc.), she is not really "one of us" but one of the very > lucky few. > > Lieve > ________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:21:37 -0800 From: Subject: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni Wow, what interesting, back story tidbits from the periphery of the scene! Thanks for sharing them, Richard and RR. I'm not sure that Joni was luckier than the rest of us because she had more opportunity to bouce back and easily "find another lover." Sure, she probably had her pick of every guy around wanting to be with her. However, I look at it more that she had earlier experienced a lot of heartbreak, especially with James Taylor, and I think at some point she just sort of became a little hardened and cynical about it all and thought she'd roam around like so many others did back in the 70s. Interestingly, according to Joni, she also did not partake in recreational drugs back in the 60s but later joined the crowd in 70s. I think she became existentialistic with her heart for awhile then. Dating Jack Nicholson I can kind of see because he is original and interesting but Warren Beatty? Ugh. I still shudder. By the start of the 80s, she was seeking real love again as evidenced by her songs in WTRF. She found her friend and was renewed again, until he tore out her heart. Then she found Donald. But he left her, too, and she was very hurt again. On one of my encounters with her she talked a lot about him breaking up with her. I was very surprised she would pour out her feelings to me, who is pretty much a stranger. She was so vulnerable and the gist of what she bascially said was how love is supposed to be "kind, patient and suffereth long" but it did not work that way for her in the end. I think Joni has been through the whole spectrum just like the rest of us. By the way, I just heard someone pronounce that new Zodiac sign. It sounds like O Fee U Cuss. I never would have known! It now makes Joni a Libra! Kakki, still a Leo ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #13 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe