From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #299 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, October 27 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 299 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Feeling free, etc. [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: Feeling free, etc. [Anita G ] RE: Feeling free, etc. [Susan Tierney McNamara ] new piano chart in library [Dave Blackburn ] Re: new piano chart in library [Gerald Notaro ] Re: new piano chart in library [Dave Blackburn ] Re: new piano chart in library [Dave Blackburn ] RE: new piano chart in library, now Paprika Plains [Susan Tierney McNamar] For Joni Audiophiles [Gerald Notaro ] joni as feminist; joni and kilauren [Mags ] Re: For Joni Audiophiles [Dave Blackburn ] RE: new piano chart in library [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Buffalo Springfield reunion [Darice ] Re: For Joni Audiophiles [Gerald Notaro ] RE: joni as feminist; joni and kilauren [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: For Joni Audiophiles [Dave Blackburn ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:11:51 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Feeling free, etc. Wow, this is a "heavy" discussion!! I have to say that seeing an academic white paper on Joni.com is pretty cool. My ex-husband's boss from Cornell presented at a conference in Italy a couple of years ago a discussion of Hejira. As my friends across the pond say "IT WAS BULLOCKS!" This guy was a hack and I'm sure only listened to Hejira once about 5 minutes before he wrote the paper. That being said, I think this author did a pretty good job. Lieve said that there were two movements, 1) liberation, 2) sexual, but I think Kakki hit on the third one at play here 3) economic. Where is the liberation, civil or sexual if you do not have economic freedom? Although we received the vote, and there was less and less of a taboo of sex outside of marriage, economic security for a woman is still a struggle, especially if she is single with kids. One of the things I respect most about Joni was her insistence on managing her own career, and her own intellectual property. I finally finished Girls Like Us this weekend and I have to say I had kind of a sick feeling in my gut after reading about all the sturm and angst of Joni, Carole and Carly's romantic ups and downs. I think the most dynamic discussion about these three women is how they managed or mismanaged careers, relationships with men, and motherhood. Although Papayanis sees the music as the liberating factor for young women of the time, Weller shows us how messy that freedom can be in practice. Right now I'm singing in my head, Just Like Me, (s)he is free to be lonely and empty and lost, Just Like Me ... The motherhood theme was the most painful I think. Reading about Joni's fight with Kilauren brought back this memory of an intense fight I had with my mother one night when I was 13 and she was drunk. Wow, I hadn't thought about that in a long time. It must have been so hard for Joni and Kilauren to make up for lost time by putting what should have happened over 30 years into a smaller timeframe. Wow. Another thought, I took this amazing class at Cornell called Popular Culture in the United States, 1950 to the present, and the professor had one section of the course dedicated to Liberace's effect on middle aged women in the 50s. Whoa, was that an interesting take on sexual repression and the role of art!!! :-) I could go on and on but I think I'll stop there and get back to work! I have bills to pay!! :-) Love this list. Sue ___________________ /___________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue Tierney || || McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of kbhla@fastmail.fm Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 4:12 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Feeling free, etc. Argh, part of me wants to respond and the other part says "why step into it?" But I guess I am stepping in ;-) I lived my so-called formative years right in the midst of these "revolutions" of the 60s-70s. Even at that time parts of these movements did not resonate with me in some ways. Sure, you can argue that in that generation we could be have been considered way too restricted by social mores. But having lived through it the whole "free," do your own thing attitude did not ultimately prove to be so universally enlightened nor liberating in the end. To many it was just a "free for all" without any responsibility or moral values and did not automatically lead to a higher level of caring and respect, especially for women. In retrospect many aspects of this revolution did a lot to keep women in a way that was yet another kind of "second class citizen" status. I'm not going to get into that here but some can discern what I mean. I've always understood why Joni did not want to be labeled a "feminist". Not because I didn't understand that women were discriminaated against in many crucial ways. I can write books on what I encountered back then, in college and career aspirations and personally because I was female. But I always had this attitude of wanting to somehow transcend it. I didn't want to be militant as a female because somehow, to me, that was admitting I was a victim, and I never wanted to buy into that from a personal, spiritual or individual standpoint. In that sense I think Joni felt the same. She was going to be herself and actualize her talents no matter what. Regarding herself as a victim would only be a distraction and setback to her ultimate trajectory and achievement. At the same time I have to give a lot of credit to the women who were activists - their efforts led to me finally being no longer paid 25 cents on the dollar compared to men for doing the same job. And once the laws evolved, so did the world where women also garnered not just equal pay but more professional respect. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:48:00 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Feeling free, etc. I can remember, as a younger woman, feeling quite betrayed by Joni when she said that she wasn't a feminist. I was an activist and involved in many campaigns and felt that I owed so much to the suffragettes and the women that followed them. In many of the consciousness raising groups I was part of in the 70s and 80s, we had many interesting debates about the nature of liberation and much of it formed me and I owe so much to those times. However, it all went crazily intense and I remember being involved in discussions about what age boys (men being the oppressors) should be made to leave the revolutionary lesbian feminist commune I was living in at the time. It was just all too much for me and it all felt very sad. I was especially fond of one of the lads and couldn't imagine life in the community without him. I couldn't see him as the 'enemy.' It was all about 'Borderlines'. There was also some very,very heavy things going on about lesbian sexual practices and I remember a very heated debate about whether or not you should lie on top of your girl friend or if it an was oppressive practice! Honestly, I can't believe I spent hours pondering these things but, in many ways, I'm glad I did. There were some mighty scary women at that time who were very much like the Thought Police. It led to quite a lot of hysteria, not least my own. But it was good to be challenged and made to think. It did lead me to hold anti-oppressive practice very close to my heart. And that's another borderline we've discussed here. One person's freedom being another's oppression. These days, I am just glad Joni did things her way. And I can see a lot of it, Sue, was Bollocks!We all have to find our own way as best we can. People will tell you where they've gone and they'll tell you where to go, but till you get there yourself you never really know. Ah - - my mantra! Love Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:55:20 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Feeling free, etc. Thanks Anita, your experience reminds me of a lot of my feminist reading at Cornell and the white paper on Joni was one of the first of its type that didn't have the phrase "feminist-Marxist" in it. That was kind of a relief to me! Those papers were extremely radical. I can't see the point in eliminating the good influence of the other 50 percent of the human race! It's a very complex subject and I get lost in the maze sometimes. Take care, Sue - -----Original Message----- From: Anita G [mailto:lawntreader@googlemail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 11:48 AM To: Susan Tierney McNamara Cc: kbhla@fastmail.fm; joni@smoe.org; Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Feeling free, etc. I can remember, as a younger woman, feeling quite betrayed by Joni when she said that she wasn't a feminist. I was an activist and involved in many campaigns and felt that I owed so much to the suffragettes and the women that followed them. In many of the consciousness raising groups I was part of in the 70s and 80s, we had many interesting debates about the nature of liberation and much of it formed me and I owe so much to those times. However, it all went crazily intense and I remember being involved in discussions about what age boys (men being the oppressors) should be made to leave the revolutionary lesbian feminist commune I was living in at the time. It was just all too much for me and it all felt very sad. I was especially fond of one of the lads and couldn't imagine life in the community without him. I couldn't see him as the 'enemy.' It was all about 'Borderlines'. There was also some very,very heavy things going on about lesbian sexual practices and I remember a very heated debate about whether or not you should lie on top of your girl friend or if it an was oppressive practice! Honestly, I can't believe I spent hours pondering these things but, in many ways, I'm glad I did. There were some mighty scary women at that time who were very much like the Thought Police. It led to quite a lot of hysteria, not least my own. But it was good to be challenged and made to think. It did lead me to hold anti-oppressive practice very close to my heart. And that's another borderline we've discussed here. One person's freedom being another's oppression. These days, I am just glad Joni did things her way. And I can see a lot of it, Sue, was Bollocks!We all have to find our own way as best we can. People will tell you where they've gone and they'll tell you where to go, but till you get there yourself you never really know. Ah - - my mantra! Love Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:23:02 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: new piano chart in library Dear JMDL pianists, A piano transcription of Shades of Scarlet Conquering has been added to the library. Little by little I, and others (Michael Dunn are you still with us?) are working through the Joni piano literature and hope some day to have the downloadable pdf library as complete as the guitar tabs have been for some time. Free time, that's all it takes! Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:37:01 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: new piano chart in library What a great project, Dave. I hope someday Joni becomes aware of all the hard work people do for her music, and that she appreciates it. Jerry On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > Dear JMDL pianists, > > A piano transcription of Shades of Scarlet Conquering has been added to the > library. > > Little by little I, and others (Michael Dunn are you still with us?) are > working through the Joni piano literature and hope some day to have the > downloadable pdf library as complete as the guitar tabs have been for some > time. Free time, that's all it takes! > > Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:52:58 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: new piano chart in library Mmm well Jerry, more likely she'd see it as the Boho zone intercepting her publishing royalties! Technically all of the tab and pdf transcriptions on the site are an infringement of publishing rights, bu,t since they encourage people to play and get further into the music they do far more good than harm. Besides, the legit published songbooks are frequently full of errors and require far too many page turns in performance. I do it for the ear training and to expand the library of material for my band to play. I just like to share the fruits of the efforts with who(m)ever needs them. Gotta finish Lesson in Survival...I left off at about 80% complete some months ago. cheers Dave On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:37 AM, Gerald Notaro wrote: > What a great project, Dave. I hope someday Joni becomes aware of all the > hard work people do for her music, and that she appreciates it. > > Jerry > > > On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > >> Dear JMDL pianists, >> >> A piano transcription of Shades of Scarlet Conquering has been added to the >> library. >> >> Little by little I, and others (Michael Dunn are you still with us?) are >> working through the Joni piano literature and hope some day to have the >> downloadable pdf library as complete as the guitar tabs have been for some >> time. Free time, that's all it takes! >> >> Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:00:29 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: new piano chart in library Sue, Joni didn't even play it all the way through herself on the album. It's cobbled together from three different sessions at different studios. Although ckarma is the resident PP guru I think I'm right in claiming that the she basically had a composition (the part with lyrics), played an impressionistic piano improvisation that Mike Gibbs subsequently orchestrated (he was kind of the Vince Mendoza of the 70s) and then ended with a one chord studio jam (that she's not even playing on), and those were all spliced together. You may remember I remastered DJRD a few years back and tried to get the three segments to match up sonically better than they do on the album. The songbook for DJRD is one of the accurate ones however and the piece is all written out there, so I'm sure someone has tackled it in its entirety. I know ckarma himself plays it frequently on the piano. Wassup Chris? Dave On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: > Thanks so much Dave and Michael. I'm so grateful for all you do for the transcription database. > > > I have a question for you and the list. I've been listening to Paprika Plains a number of times this week (DJRD is on loop in my car). Does anyone know if this concerto has been played again after Joni recorded it? Either a cover or by Joni herself? Bob? It's really an amazing accomplishment. > > Thanks, Sue > > > ___________________ > /___________________\ > ||-------------------|| > || Sue Tierney || > || McNamara || > || sem8@cornell.edu || > ||___________________|| > || O etch-a-sketch O || > \___________________/ > > "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Dave Blackburn > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 1:23 PM > To: Joni Mitchell > Subject: new piano chart in library > > Dear JMDL pianists, > > A piano transcription of Shades of Scarlet Conquering has been added to the library. > > Little by little I, and others (Michael Dunn are you still with us?) are working through the Joni piano literature and hope some day to have the downloadable pdf library as complete as the guitar tabs have been for some time. Free time, that's all it takes! > > Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:03:20 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: new piano chart in library, now Paprika Plains Wow that's great Dave. I had never heard that about PP. I was absent from the list during my missing years (2000 - 2004). Not sure when you discussed your remastered version. I've been trying to play and sing the song DJRD for a week now and it's really a challenge. Can someone remind me how to read the list archives? I really want to go back and read the Girls Like Us threads. Thanks, Sue - -----Original Message----- From: Dave Blackburn [mailto:beatntrack@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 2:00 PM To: Susan Tierney McNamara Cc: Joni Mitchell Subject: Re: new piano chart in library Sue, Joni didn't even play it all the way through herself on the album. It's cobbled together from three different sessions at different studios. Although ckarma is the resident PP guru I think I'm right in claiming that the she basically had a composition (the part with lyrics), played an impressionistic piano improvisation that Mike Gibbs subsequently orchestrated (he was kind of the Vince Mendoza of the 70s) and then ended with a one chord studio jam (that she's not even playing on), and those were all spliced together. You may remember I remastered DJRD a few years back and tried to get the three segments to match up sonically better than they do on the album. The songbook for DJRD is one of the accurate ones however and the piece is all written out there, so I'm sure someone has tackled it in its entirety. I know ckarma himself plays it frequently on the piano. Wassup Chris? Dave On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: > Thanks so much Dave and Michael. I'm so grateful for all you do for the transcription database. > > > I have a question for you and the list. I've been listening to Paprika Plains a number of times this week (DJRD is on loop in my car). Does anyone know if this concerto has been played again after Joni recorded it? Either a cover or by Joni herself? Bob? It's really an amazing accomplishment. > > Thanks, Sue > > > ___________________ > /___________________\ > ||-------------------|| > || Sue Tierney || > || McNamara || > || sem8@cornell.edu || > ||___________________|| > || O etch-a-sketch O || > \___________________/ > > "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Dave Blackburn > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 1:23 PM > To: Joni Mitchell > Subject: new piano chart in library > > Dear JMDL pianists, > > A piano transcription of Shades of Scarlet Conquering has been added to the library. > > Little by little I, and others (Michael Dunn are you still with us?) are working through the Joni piano literature and hope some day to have the downloadable pdf library as complete as the guitar tabs have been for some time. Free time, that's all it takes! > > Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:37:44 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: For Joni Audiophiles Rhino Hand Made has released several of the original quadraphonic albums in DTS 5.1 DVD Audio. They are in very high demand and have commanded high prices for the limited releases. I had a quad setup many years ago. What a great time I had listening to The Divine Miss M, Judith, Chicago Transit Authority, an others in "discrete" (not matrix, that was caca) 4 channel sound. I just read that Joni's Court and Spark and Hissing, which were recorded, mixed, and released separately from the stereo records are in the cue. What a joy that will be. Anyone with a DVD player hooked up to a 5.1 surround system will be able to play them. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:54:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: joni as feminist; joni and kilauren I've been watching it from the wings on this one, and I've decided to focus on a couple of today's responses to that "academic article". Whilst it is an interesting and wonderful notion to put forth ideas in academe-speak, what good is it if a reader has to plow through the myriad of wordage to try and figure out the whole point. I'm a voracious reader of a variety of different texts/academic and not so academic. And with that said, I did find this essay a bit long and a bit heavy, insomuch that I lost interest part way through. Glazed over in fact. Anyway....more on that another time, but mostly I wanted to respond to a couple of points/topics that are near and dear to my heart. Anita wrote: I can remember, as a younger woman, feeling quite betrayed by Joni when she said that she wasn't a feminist. I was an activist and involved in many campaigns and felt that I owed so much to the suffragettes and the women that followed them. my thoughts: well, Anita, I can certainly understand how you would feel betrayed. I too was taken aback when Joni said this, and I'd like to give a little anecdote from my university days when my first year sociology professor set that sort of claim to rest for me. My professor told a small group of us that she too was a femnist, however, she didnt feel it was necessary for her to get bogged down in the language, the complex reactions that occur when a woman claims feminism as part of her identity. Said professor exemplified her feminist ideals throughout her teachings and by the way she positioned her self in the world. What I'm trying to say is that there's comfort in feminism, with no need to explain. I can see that Joni too might not want to get bogged down in definitions that often conjur up vision of a bunch of man haters. Contrary to that, my profs teachings as well as in many other feminist courses I took, were all about how cultures/social constructs affect men as well. To that end, my prof did not feel that she had to stand behind all the twisted and misunderstood interpretations of what it means to be a feminist. There are some main streams out there, and yet, there are as many "definitions", ways of being within the feminist realm. Wise woman teachings. and now Sue's thoughts about Joni meeting Kilauren: The motherhood theme was the most painful I think. Reading about Joni's fight with Kilauren brought back this memory of an intense fight I had with my mother one night when I was 13 and she was drunk. Wow, I hadn't thought about that in a long time. It must have been so hard for Joni and Kilauren to make up for lost time by putting what should have happened over 30 years into a smaller timeframe. Wow. I'm speaking as an observer, somewhat first hand, as to what this might have been like. Some of this is old news to long time readers. I can well imagine what it might have been like for Joni and Kilauren to meet for the second time. Not the first, as they met at the time of K's birth, just to clarify. For the mother, Joni would have all the memories, all the joy and sorrow of carrying little Kilauren under her heart. Sweet baby K is taken away and life is supposed to go one, so they told us. Jettison some 35 years later when Joni and Kilauren's paths come crashing together. Kilauren is a stranger to Joni, and vice versa. It is Joni with the memories of pregnancy, not Kilauren. On top of all the emotional storms, there's the fact that Kilauren's first mother was and is Joni Mitchell...talk about compounding things! While it is very exciting, more than you can ever imagine, or find words to express just how it feels to finally at last find that missing piece of your soul, it is also terrifying...so many what ifs bouncing around inside, uncontrollably. As we know, Kilauren shone in the spot light as a model for various magazines, so she and Joni had that in common, somewhat. However, again with all that said, what you've done over the past 35 years doesnt amount to a hill of beans . You are rip roaring back in that place, with the bright lights of the delivery room glaring down at your reality. Holy Hannah, it's a wonder any of us survive. And to this end, I say, no wonder Joni and Kilauren have had their share or bumps in their road to here. As a young woman who gives up her child to the land of adoption, you want to "move on" because there's nothing to be done but strive toward that ease. And yet, this piece of herstory lives on, often in deafening silence. And for the most part, no one really truly understands or gets the core of where you are coming from because all of those darned positive comments come slinging your way, oh it was for the best, oh what a wonderful gift you have given someone. But the price paid is dear. The shame and guilt and blame for doing what our bodies do, naturally. To hell and back. as always, I wish Joni and Kilauren many blessings for having the courage to meet in the first and certainly the second place. Joni has shown us, through cracked voice emotions during interviews, just how much a painful journey it was, and perhaps continues to be for her. She has shown us time and time again in all the beautiful little songs she's written. That child with a child, pretending had a lot to deal with, much more than anyone can truly know. Reunion with as positive outcome as possible, is only the beginning of how on earth do we navigate our way through our separate lives. Lots of tangles remain in this web woven life. Mags (sorry to Sue T that I didnt have your email address handy to cc this directly to you) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:12:42 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: For Joni Audiophiles Oh boy, that's me Jerry. Please spread the word once those are available. I have Both Sides Now in DVD-A format and it is breathtaking. The naysayers on the list who think the strings on it are corny or overblown should experience the emotional rush of hearing Joni's voice filling the wall in front of you as you are encircled by an A-list orchestra. I wonder of Tears for Fear's The Seeds of Love is in their queue to come out in 5.1. Now that would be something. One question: you say the C&S and Hissing release will be DVD-Audio format but then say anyone with a DVD player and 5.1 surround system will be able to play them. It is my understanding that only certain DVD players are DVD-A compatible. Also to really experience the discrete channels you need to use the direct outputs into the receiver. Pro Logic doesn't work for DVD-Audio. Unless things have changed recently that is, and that's always possible in today's world. thanks, Dave On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Gerald Notaro wrote: > Rhino Hand Made has released several of the original quadraphonic albums in > DTS 5.1 DVD Audio. They are in very high demand and have commanded high > prices for the limited releases. I had a quad setup many years ago. What a > great time I had listening to The Divine Miss M, Judith, Chicago Transit > Authority, an others in "discrete" (not matrix, that was caca) 4 channel > sound. I just read that Joni's Court and Spark and Hissing, which were > recorded, mixed, and released separately from the stereo records are in the > cue. What a joy that will be. Anyone with a DVD player hooked up to a 5.1 > surround system will be able to play them. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:50:10 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: new piano chart in library Thanks so much Dave and Michael. I'm so grateful for all you do for the transcription database. I have a question for you and the list. I've been listening to Paprika Plains a number of times this week (DJRD is on loop in my car). Does anyone know if this concerto has been played again after Joni recorded it? Either a cover or by Joni herself? Bob? It's really an amazing accomplishment. Thanks, Sue ___________________ /___________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue Tierney || || McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Dave Blackburn Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 1:23 PM To: Joni Mitchell Subject: new piano chart in library Dear JMDL pianists, A piano transcription of Shades of Scarlet Conquering has been added to the library. Little by little I, and others (Michael Dunn are you still with us?) are working through the Joni piano literature and hope some day to have the downloadable pdf library as complete as the guitar tabs have been for some time. Free time, that's all it takes! Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:25:29 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Darice Subject: Buffalo Springfield reunion Well, I drove through a monsoon, battled the traffic, couldn't bring in an umbrella, fell in the mud and sat though drizzle and rain and wind and cold....all to see the Buffalo Springfield for the first time in 43 years.... Was it worth it? Hell yeah!!!!! 3 legends, having fun, harmonizing beatifully, playing their hearts out, doing the songs that spawned the country/rock genre... you can see the video on youtube...I'm STILL high from the experience... (and finally warm and dry) Darice ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 15:27:03 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: For Joni Audiophiles Dave, I also have that DVD Audio release of Both Sides Now. I played it for Muller the last time he visited. There is a very specific DVD-A format that is pretty well dead, as is SACD. I am talking here of DVD Audio as it relates to DTS 5.1. I have a few of those, also, like Bonnie Raitt's Road Tested among others. The sampling rate is not quite as high as DVD-A, but as I say, I think that format is dead. Almost every DVD player out there can play DTS 5.1, which is not Dolby Digital or Dolby ProLogic, but a separate technology. Jerry On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > Oh boy, that's me Jerry. Please spread the word once those are available. > I have Both Sides Now in DVD-A format and it is breathtaking. The naysayers > on the list who think the strings on it are corny or overblown should > experience the emotional rush of hearing Joni's voice filling the wall in > front of you as you are encircled by an A-list orchestra. > > I wonder of Tears for Fear's The Seeds of Love is in their queue to come > out in 5.1. Now that would be something. > > One question: you say the C&S and Hissing release will be DVD-Audio format > but then say anyone with a DVD player and 5.1 surround system will be able > to play them. It is my understanding that only certain DVD players are DVD-A > compatible. Also to really experience the discrete channels you need to use > the direct outputs into the receiver. Pro Logic doesn't work for DVD-Audio. > Unless things have changed recently that is, and that's always possible in > today's world. > > thanks, > > Dave > > > > > > On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Gerald Notaro wrote: > > > Rhino Hand Made has released several of the original quadraphonic albums > in > > DTS 5.1 DVD Audio. They are in very high demand and have commanded high > > prices for the limited releases. I had a quad setup many years ago. What > a > > great time I had listening to The Divine Miss M, Judith, Chicago Transit > > Authority, an others in "discrete" (not matrix, that was caca) 4 channel > > sound. I just read that Joni's Court and Spark and Hissing, which were > > recorded, mixed, and released separately from the stereo records are in > the > > cue. What a joy that will be. Anyone with a DVD player hooked up to a 5.1 > > surround system will be able to play them. > > > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 15:29:24 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: joni as feminist; joni and kilauren Thanks Mags, I did get the message right away. I agree with what your professor said, which is about walking the walk ... I believe Joni does that magnificently no matter what she says! :-) and also, you state beautifully the range of emotions that must have gone on for both Joni and Kilauren. I often feel kind of strange thinking about their personal life like I know what they could possibly be feeling! :-) Take care, Sue - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Mags Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 2:54 PM To: joni@smoe.org; Anita G Subject: joni as feminist; joni and kilauren I've been watching it from the wings on this one, and I've decided to focus on a couple of today's responses to that "academic article". Whilst it is an interesting and wonderful notion to put forth ideas in academe-speak, what good is it if a reader has to plow through the myriad of wordage to try and figure out the whole point. I'm a voracious reader of a variety of different texts/academic and not so academic. And with that said, I did find this essay a bit long and a bit heavy, insomuch that I lost interest part way through. Glazed over in fact. Anyway....more on that another time, but mostly I wanted to respond to a couple of points/topics that are near and dear to my heart. Anita wrote: I can remember, as a younger woman, feeling quite betrayed by Joni when she said that she wasn't a feminist. I was an activist and involved in many campaigns and felt that I owed so much to the suffragettes and the women that followed them. my thoughts: well, Anita, I can certainly understand how you would feel betrayed. I too was taken aback when Joni said this, and I'd like to give a little anecdote from my university days when my first year sociology professor set that sort of claim to rest for me. My professor told a small group of us that she too was a femnist, however, she didnt feel it was necessary for her to get bogged down in the language, the complex reactions that occur when a woman claims feminism as part of her identity. Said professor exemplified her feminist ideals throughout her teachings and by the way she positioned her self in the world. What I'm trying to say is that there's comfort in feminism, with no need to explain. I can see that Joni too might not want to get bogged down in definitions that often conjur up vision of a bunch of man haters. Contrary to that, my profs teachings as well as in many other feminist courses I took, were all about how cultures/social constructs affect men as well. To that end, my prof did not feel that she had to stand behind all the twisted and misunderstood interpretations of what it means to be a feminist. There are some main streams out there, and yet, there are as many "definitions", ways of being within the feminist realm. Wise woman teachings. and now Sue's thoughts about Joni meeting Kilauren: The motherhood theme was the most painful I think. Reading about Joni's fight with Kilauren brought back this memory of an intense fight I had with my mother one night when I was 13 and she was drunk. Wow, I hadn't thought about that in a long time. It must have been so hard for Joni and Kilauren to make up for lost time by putting what should have happened over 30 years into a smaller timeframe. Wow. I'm speaking as an observer, somewhat first hand, as to what this might have been like. Some of this is old news to long time readers. I can well imagine what it might have been like for Joni and Kilauren to meet for the second time. Not the first, as they met at the time of K's birth, just to clarify. For the mother, Joni would have all the memories, all the joy and sorrow of carrying little Kilauren under her heart. Sweet baby K is taken away and life is supposed to go one, so they told us. Jettison some 35 years later when Joni and Kilauren's paths come crashing together. Kilauren is a stranger to Joni, and vice versa. It is Joni with the memories of pregnancy, not Kilauren. On top of all the emotional storms, there's the fact that Kilauren's first mother was and is Joni Mitchell...talk about compounding things! While it is very exciting, more than you can ever imagine, or find words to express just how it feels to finally at last find that missing piece of your soul, it is also terrifying...so many what ifs bouncing around inside, uncontrollably. As we know, Kilauren shone in the spot light as a model for various magazines, so she and Joni had that in common, somewhat. However, again with all that said, what you've done over the past 35 years doesnt amount to a hill of beans . You are rip roaring back in that place, with the bright lights of the delivery room glaring down at your reality. Holy Hannah, it's a wonder any of us survive. And to this end, I say, no wonder Joni and Kilauren have had their share or bumps in their road to here. As a young woman who gives up her child to the land of adoption, you want to "move on" because there's nothing to be done but strive toward that ease. And yet, this piece of herstory lives on, often in deafening silence. And for the most part, no one really truly understands or gets the core of where you are coming from because all of those darned positive comments come slinging your way, oh it was for the best, oh what a wonderful gift you have given someone. But the price paid is dear. The shame and guilt and blame for doing what our bodies do, naturally. To hell and back. as always, I wish Joni and Kilauren many blessings for having the courage to meet in the first and certainly the second place. Joni has shown us, through cracked voice emotions during interviews, just how much a painful journey it was, and perhaps continues to be for her. She has shown us time and time again in all the beautiful little songs she's written. That child with a child, pretending had a lot to deal with, much more than anyone can truly know. Reunion with as positive outcome as possible, is only the beginning of how on earth do we navigate our way through our separate lives. Lots of tangles remain in this web woven life. Mags (sorry to Sue T that I didnt have your email address handy to cc this directly to you) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 15:46:39 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: For Joni Audiophiles How true. And I have to correct myself, the DVD Audio releases from Rhino contain both DTS 5.1 96/24 and Dolby Digital 5.1. I happen to always listen to and prefer the DTS 5.1 96/24. Jerry On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > Ah, such a fine line between DVD-A and DVD Audio! Such a shame the former > is a dead format. It sounds amazing and the discs were only a couple of > dollars more than a CD, but they were trying to launch hi-def audio in an > world where people only cared about filling their ipods with as much stuff > as they could cram in there. As I've said before on this list, it's odd to > me that people can easily see improvements in visual resolution and will > embrace it (VHS>DVD>Blu-Ray>?) but the same is not true for audio. I think > most people got that CDs sounded better than cassettes but now have opted > for lower resolution than CD because it's convenient and emailable. > Ironically the recording profession continues to strive for ever higher > fidelity, hoping that the trend will somehow reverse itself. > > D > > > > > On Oct 26, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Gerald Notaro wrote: > > > Dave, > > > > I also have that DVD Audio release of Both Sides Now. I played it for > Muller > > the last time he visited. There is a very specific DVD-A format that is > > pretty well dead, as is SACD. I am talking here of DVD Audio as it > relates > > to DTS 5.1. I have a few of those, also, like Bonnie Raitt's Road Tested > > among others. The sampling rate is not quite as high as DVD-A, but as I > say, > > I think that format is dead. Almost every DVD player out there can play > DTS > > 5.1, which is not Dolby Digital or Dolby ProLogic, but a separate > > technology. > > > > Jerry > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Dave Blackburn < > beatntrack@sbcglobal.net>wrote: > > > >> Oh boy, that's me Jerry. Please spread the word once those are > available. > >> I have Both Sides Now in DVD-A format and it is breathtaking. The > naysayers > >> on the list who think the strings on it are corny or overblown should > >> experience the emotional rush of hearing Joni's voice filling the wall > in > >> front of you as you are encircled by an A-list orchestra. > >> > >> I wonder of Tears for Fear's The Seeds of Love is in their queue to come > >> out in 5.1. Now that would be something. > >> > >> One question: you say the C&S and Hissing release will be DVD-Audio > format > >> but then say anyone with a DVD player and 5.1 surround system will be > able > >> to play them. It is my understanding that only certain DVD players are > DVD-A > >> compatible. Also to really experience the discrete channels you need to > use > >> the direct outputs into the receiver. Pro Logic doesn't work for > DVD-Audio. > >> Unless things have changed recently that is, and that's always possible > in > >> today's world. > >> > >> thanks, > >> > >> Dave > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Gerald Notaro wrote: > >> > >>> Rhino Hand Made has released several of the original quadraphonic > albums > >> in > >>> DTS 5.1 DVD Audio. They are in very high demand and have commanded high > >>> prices for the limited releases. I had a quad setup many years ago. > What > >> a > >>> great time I had listening to The Divine Miss M, Judith, Chicago > Transit > >>> Authority, an others in "discrete" (not matrix, that was caca) 4 > channel > >>> sound. I just read that Joni's Court and Spark and Hissing, which were > >>> recorded, mixed, and released separately from the stereo records are > in > >> the > >>> cue. What a joy that will be. Anyone with a DVD player hooked up to a > 5.1 > >>> surround system will be able to play them. > >>> > >>> Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:44:26 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: For Joni Audiophiles Ah, such a fine line between DVD-A and DVD Audio! Such a shame the former is a dead format. It sounds amazing and the discs were only a couple of dollars more than a CD, but they were trying to launch hi-def audio in an world where people only cared about filling their ipods with as much stuff as they could cram in there. As I've said before on this list, it's odd to me that people can easily see improvements in visual resolution and will embrace it (VHS>DVD>Blu-Ray>?) but the same is not true for audio. I think most people got that CDs sounded better than cassettes but now have opted for lower resolution than CD because it's convenient and emailable. Ironically the recording profession continues to strive for ever higher fidelity, hoping that the trend will somehow reverse itself. D On Oct 26, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Gerald Notaro wrote: > Dave, > > I also have that DVD Audio release of Both Sides Now. I played it for Muller > the last time he visited. There is a very specific DVD-A format that is > pretty well dead, as is SACD. I am talking here of DVD Audio as it relates > to DTS 5.1. I have a few of those, also, like Bonnie Raitt's Road Tested > among others. The sampling rate is not quite as high as DVD-A, but as I say, > I think that format is dead. Almost every DVD player out there can play DTS > 5.1, which is not Dolby Digital or Dolby ProLogic, but a separate > technology. > > Jerry > > > On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > >> Oh boy, that's me Jerry. Please spread the word once those are available. >> I have Both Sides Now in DVD-A format and it is breathtaking. The naysayers >> on the list who think the strings on it are corny or overblown should >> experience the emotional rush of hearing Joni's voice filling the wall in >> front of you as you are encircled by an A-list orchestra. >> >> I wonder of Tears for Fear's The Seeds of Love is in their queue to come >> out in 5.1. Now that would be something. >> >> One question: you say the C&S and Hissing release will be DVD-Audio format >> but then say anyone with a DVD player and 5.1 surround system will be able >> to play them. It is my understanding that only certain DVD players are DVD-A >> compatible. Also to really experience the discrete channels you need to use >> the direct outputs into the receiver. Pro Logic doesn't work for DVD-Audio. >> Unless things have changed recently that is, and that's always possible in >> today's world. >> >> thanks, >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Gerald Notaro wrote: >> >>> Rhino Hand Made has released several of the original quadraphonic albums >> in >>> DTS 5.1 DVD Audio. They are in very high demand and have commanded high >>> prices for the limited releases. I had a quad setup many years ago. What >> a >>> great time I had listening to The Divine Miss M, Judith, Chicago Transit >>> Authority, an others in "discrete" (not matrix, that was caca) 4 channel >>> sound. I just read that Joni's Court and Spark and Hissing, which were >>> recorded, mixed, and released separately from the stereo records are in >> the >>> cue. What a joy that will be. Anyone with a DVD player hooked up to a 5.1 >>> surround system will be able to play them. >>> >>> Jerry ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #299 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe