From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #262 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, September 20 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 262 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Joni worst rhymes - how about best lines? [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni [Paul Ivice ] Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni [Paul Ivice ] New article: The festival that time forgot [TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com] Joni.com download [Anita G ] how about best lines? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni ["Mark" ] Re: how about best lines? [Em ] Fw: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni ["Mark" ] Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni [Paul Ivice ] Re: how about best lines? [Anita G ] Re: Joni worst rhymes - how about best lines? ["Mark" ] New article: I CAME UPON A CHILD OF GOD [TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com] Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni [rflynn@frontiernet.net] New article: Ed Thrasher, 74, Album Designer, Dies [TheStaff@JoniMitchell] Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni [T Peckham ] Re: Joni worst rhymes - how about best lines? [Deb Messling ] favorite lines [Paul Ivice ] Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:41:24 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni >Rhine wine and clandestine in Don't Interrupt the Sorrow. The word is pronounced "Clan-DES-tin," ith a silent "e," not "Clan-des- TINE."< It sometimes depends where you come from. I'm not sure which is the common pronunciation in Canada but I've heard it pronounced both ways here. I've always pronounced it the same way as Joni. The rule in English, of course, is that an E on the end of a word causes the previous vowel to be long. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:00:01 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Joni worst rhymes - how about best lines? Oh yes, this could be endless but this is why I'm here. These are the things that are special to many of us. In my opinion, the greatest line that Joni ever uttered and has the greatest resonance for me is, "I remember the time you told me, 'love is touching souls' then, surely you touched mine 'cause part of you pours out of me in these lines from time to time". Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 09:38:50 +0100 From: Paul Castle Subject: Joni Fashion Week Joni as inspiration for fashion designers this week On Wednesday Anna Sui cited her as a muse for her Spring/Summer 2011 collection at the New York Fashion Week - see http://canadieren.blogspot.com/ and Sienna and Savannah Miller's catwalk show at the London Fashion week yesterday http://bit.ly/buV1pP >"Their mission statement cited Kerouac's landmark beat novel "On the Road" as a major influence, along with Mitchell's "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" album."> very best to all PaulC NP 'Wedding Song' by Anais Mitchell (with Justin Vernon) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 05:41:59 -0400 From: Paul Ivice Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni The rule you cite, if it exists, is not so much a rule as a pronunciation guide that in some cases changes the pronunciation of "win" to "wine" and "twin" to "twine," but certainly does not apply to words such as "intenstine," sanguine" and "clandestine," which according to dictionaries and common usage are pronounced with "in" as the final syllable and the emphasis on the previous syllable.. "Depends where you come from" makes certain mispronunciations locally or colloquially acceptable in certain areas, though not necessarily correct. Paul Ivice ;>) - -----Original Message----- From: Mark-Leon Thorne mark-leon@iinet.net.au >Rhine wine and clandestine in Don't Interrupt the Sorrow. The word is pronounced "Clan-DES-tin," ith a silent "e," not "Clan-des-TINE."< It sometimes depends where you come from. I'm not sure which is the common pronunciation in Canada but I've heard it pronounced both ways here. I've always pronounced it the same way as Joni. The rule in English, of course, is that an E on the end of a word causes the previous vowel to be long. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 19:55:17 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni On 19/09/2010, at 7:41 PM, Paul Ivice wrote: > The rule you cite, if it exists, is not so much a rule as a > pronunciation guide that in some cases changes the pronunciation of > "win" to "wine" and "twin" to "twine," but certainly does not apply > to words such as "intenstine," sanguine" and "clandestine," which > according to dictionaries and common usage are pronounced with "in" > as the final syllable and the emphasis on the previous syllable.. > "Depends where you come from" makes certain mispronunciations > locally or colloquially acceptable in certain areas, though not > necessarily correct. > Paul Ivice ;>) Therefore, your pronunciation may be just a local mispronunciation. I had a pretty decent education and was taught that this RULE was consistent. That an E at the end of a word indicates a preceding long vowel sound. This is taught as a rule of the English language, not a pronunciation guide. How can you say that entire nation's way of pronouncing words is incorrect. English has been adapted and evolved separately in many parts of the world. American English is not spoken in the same way as English spoken in other countries (including England) but it is that country's official language. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 06:17:57 -0400 From: Paul Ivice Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni - -----Original Message----- From: Mark-Leon Thorne mark-leon@iinet.net.au Therefore, your pronunciation may be just a local mispronunciation. I had a pretty decent education and was taught that this RULE was consistent. That an E at the end of a word indicates a preceding long vowel sound. This is taught as a rule of the English language, not a pronunciation guide. What can I say other than what you were taught, or think you were taught, as a "rule" of the English language does not exist as a "rule" in other English-speaking cultures. Your problem, therefore, is that I can refer to the audio pronunciation guide from Merriam-Webster Dictionary Online. Therefore, your pronunciation may be just a local mispronunciation. I had a pretty decent education and was taught that this RULE was consistent. That an E at the end of a word indicates a preceding long vowel sound. This is taught as a rule of the English language, not a pronunciation guide. What can I say other than what you were taught, or think you were taught, as a "rule" of the English language does not exist as a "rule" in other English-speaking cultures. Your problem, therefore, is that I can refer to the audio pronunciation guide from Merriam-Webster Dictionary Online. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clandestine ... and Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/clandestine ... and the freedictionary.com clanB7desB7tine (kln-dstn) all of which, in three different voices, pronounce the word identically and consistent with the pronunciation guides. That's pretty strong evidence that you are wrong. Colloquially speaking, what you got? Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 05:57:56 -0600 (MDT) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New article: The festival that time forgot A new article has been added to the Library at JoniMitchell.com: Title: The festival that time forgot Publication: The Star-Ledger Date: 2004.08.01 Read it here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2269 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:16:17 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Joni.com download Can anyone kindly send me the link for the JMDL members fundraiser download for Joni.com that Dave Blackburn put up? I hadn't realised I'd missed it and would very much like to hear it. Thanks Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:26:12 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: how about best lines? full and hollow, like a cactus tree the sun poured in like butterscotch / and stuck to all my senses You could have been more than a name on the door, on the thirty-third floor in the air All romantics meet the same fate someday Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafi Mama thinks she spoilt me Papa knows somehow he set me free Mama thinks she spoilt me rotten She blames herself But papa he blesses me I heard it in the wind last night It sounded like applause Chilly now End of summer No more shiny hot nights It was just the arbutus rustling And the bumping of the logs And the moon swept down black water Like an empty spotlight Underneath the jungle gym Hollow grey fire escape thief Looking for sweet fire Shadow of lady release Dogs and tugs and summertime I saw a falling star burn up / above the Las Vegas sands marbled bowling ball Now me: I could go on for about 10 years (and I have). Jim L'Hommedieu in the end of summer np: the overture to Jurrasic Park at full volume ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 09:45:22 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni The Merriam-Webster site also shows 4 different pronunciations of the word: clanB7desB7tine adj \klan-Kdes-tIn also -K tD+n or -K tDn or Kklan-dIs-\ I believe the 'i' with the line over the top of it indicates the long form of the vowel which would make the first alternative pronunciation of the last syllable rhyme with the word wine. It does not, however, indicate any change in which syllable is accented. If I am remembering these symbols correctly, that would also make the 2nd alternative pronounced as 'teen'. I'm not sure what the final one with the \ representing the last syllable is. And I just know none of those symbols are going to show up when this posts to the JMDL. Interestingly, when I looked the word up in our hard-cover copies of 'Random House Webster's College Dictionary' and also in an older copy of 'Webster's New World Dictionary', both books showed only the single pronunciation which is the one Paul asserts is the correct one. Apparently the 'Webster' part of Merriam-Webster doesn't agree with the 'Merriam' part. Or maybe they're just confused. Or confusing. Mark in Seattle - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Ivice" Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:17 AM To: Cc: Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark-Leon Thorne mark-leon@iinet.net.au > Therefore, your pronunciation may be just a local mispronunciation. I had > a > pretty decent education and was taught that this RULE was consistent. That > an > E at the end of a word indicates a preceding long vowel sound. This is > taught > as a rule of the English language, not a pronunciation guide. > > What can I say other than what you were taught, or think you were taught, > as a > "rule" of the English language does not exist as a "rule" in other > English-speaking cultures. > Your problem, therefore, is that I can refer to the audio pronunciation > guide > from Merriam-Webster Dictionary Online. > . > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clandestine > > ... and Dictionary.com > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/clandestine > > ... and the freedictionary.com > clanB7desB7tine (kln-dstn) > > all of which, in three different voices, pronounce the word identically > and > consistent with the pronunciation guides. > That's pretty strong evidence that you are wrong. Colloquially speaking, > what > you got? > > Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 09:50:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: how about best lines? I've always been partial to "red water in the bathroom sink, fever in the scum brown bowl". Not that I find it an attractive image. But I can just SEE it. And I immediately feel like I need to grab a scrub brush and some Comet. ugh... there are many more. Also "he'd p_ss in your fireplace and drag you through turbulent indigo" < wrote: > From: Jim L'Hommedieu > Subject: how about best lines? > To: joni@smoe.org > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 11:26 AM > full and hollow, like a cactus tree > > the sun poured in like butterscotch / and stuck to all my > senses ...snip... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 09:57:45 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Fw: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni Good ol' smoe. - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark" Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 9:45 AM To: "Paul Ivice" ; Cc: Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni > The Merriam-Webster site also shows 4 different pronunciations of the > word: > > clanB7desB7tine adj > \klan-Kdes-tIn also -K tD+n or -K tDn or Kklan-dIs-\ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 14:23:54 -0400 From: Paul Ivice Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni The Merriam-Webster site also shows 4 different pronunciations of the word: clanB7desB7tine adj \klan-Kdes-tIn also -K tD+n or -K tDn or Kklan-dIs-\ I believe the 'i' with the line over the top of it indicates the long form of the vowel which would make the first alternative pronunciation of the last syllable rhyme with the word wine. It does not, however, indicate any change in which syllable is accented. If I am remembering these symbols correctly, that would also make the 2nd alternative pronounced as 'teen'. I'm not sure what the final one with the \ representing the last syllable is. The "\" in the final one puts the emphasis on the first syllable in all pronunciations, instead of on the second syllable as it is in the other options. So you will notice, then, that even in the alternative pronunciation that gives the "long i," the emphasis is on the second syllable, and not the last as Joni phrases the word. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 19:33:58 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: how about best lines? On 19 September 2010 16:26, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > Now me: I could go on for about 10 years (and I have). > Jim L'Hommedieu in the end of summer > Not quite 10 years, Jim, but great reminders of why I'm here, Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:44:33 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Joni worst rhymes - how about best lines? Like Jim, I could go on and on with couplets and verses that knock me over. But Mags, as she so often does, got me to thinking about this in a different perspective. From: "Mags"> it's the feelings that run side the lyrics, that's the stuff that kills me > every time, every single time I hear her songs, almost always like > listening > to them for the first time, which I suppose could be argued to be > true..because of whatever life has hurled your way....you've got that > stuff > under your belt and then some and then you go back to that place, that > lyric > and it has all sorts of new meaning to it. I couldn't agree with you more, Mags. There are certain lines, phrases, entire songs that have come to represent specific sea changes in my life. There are many others that are amazing in their beautiful craftsmanship and expression of feelings. But these particular bits are weighted with special significance for me: Things fall apart The center cannot hold Maybe more Yeats than Joni. But it was the forerunner for me of this: Tell me why do you starve the faithful? Why do you crucify the saints? And you let the wicked prosper You let their children frisk like deer And my loves are dead or dying Or they don't come near .......................................................................... Was it the sins of my youth? What have I done to you? That you make everything I dread And everything in fear come true Obviously 'Sire of Sorrow' has meaning for me that goes beyond the story of Job. But then sometime later the world opened up to me again and I realized that not everything I dread and everything I fear had or would come true. So many worse things happen to people than what I had experienced. Then along came this line which I'm not sure is original to Joni but it's the name of the song and it's in the song. So it is a Joni Mitchell lyric, in my mind, anyway: Happiness is the best facelift That one helped lift the gloom. It helped me give myself permission to love and be happy again. That's one of the many things I > love about Joni's songs. Her descriptors are spot on, and I love them, > ever > so. This is so true, Mags. Joni hits the mark like no-one else. And so many times she manages to hit it in an elegant way. There is a verse from 'Hejira' that has opened up to me since seeing 'The Fiddle and the Drum'. 'Hejira' is not part of the ballet but there is an image that pops up on the 'cyclops' of a burning candle super-imposed on a body of water that made me think of: In the church they light the candles And the wax rolls down like tears There is the hope and the hopeless I've witnessed all these years At first my mind latched on the 'hope and the hopeless' part of this verse in relation to the themes in 'The Fiddle and the Drum'. Then sometime later the sheer brilliance of the entire verse hit me. The image of burning candles with wax running down them like tears as a metaphor for the hope (light of the candles) and the hopelessness (the 'tears' of the dripping wax) had never occurred to me before. Sometimes I am awfully dense. And then in the ballet she put a candle in a pool of water as if it is coming close to being drowned/snuffed out. But the ballet had a lasting affect on me. I used to think the song 'The Fiddle and the Drum' was a on the heavy-handed, simplistic side and it was never a favorite. Now after seeing the images that illustrated it in the ballet, I have a whole new appreciation for the sheer power of that song. Thank you again, dear Mags, for jogging my tired old brain with the wonderful expression of your thoughts. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:18:10 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: how about best lines? I think Em, that you and Jim just illustrate the breadth of Joni's ability - from butterscotch sunshine to scum brown bowls! Anita x On 19 September 2010 17:50, Em wrote: > I've always been partial to "red water in the bathroom sink, fever in the scum brown bowl". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:53:02 -0600 (MDT) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New article: I CAME UPON A CHILD OF GOD A new article has been added to the Library at JoniMitchell.com: Title: I CAME UPON A CHILD OF GOD Publication: The Metaphysical Review 28/29 Date: 1998.08.0 Read it here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2270 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 21:28:42 +0000 (UTC) From: rflynn@frontiernet.net Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni I think you are mistaken, Paul. Turn your speakers on and click here: http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=clandestine&submit=Submit - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Ivice" To: "mark travis" , mark-leon@iinet.net.au Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 2:23:54 PM Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni The Merriam-Webster site also shows 4 different pronunciations of the word: clanB7desB7tine adj \klan-Kdes-tIn also -KtD+n or -KtDn or Kklan-dIs-\ I believe the 'i' with the line over the top of it indicates the long form of the vowel which would make the first alternative pronunciation of the last syllable rhyme with the word wine. It does not, however, indicate any change in which syllable is accented. If I am remembering these symbols correctly, that would also make the 2nd alternative pronounced as 'teen'. I'm not sure what the final one with the \ representing the last syllable is. The "\" in the final one puts the emphasis on the first syllable in all pronunciations, instead of on the second syllable as it is in the other options. So you will notice, then, that even in the alternative pronunciation that gives the "long i," the emphasis is on the second syllable, and not the last as Joni phrases the word. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 15:49:42 -0600 (MDT) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New article: Ed Thrasher, 74, Album Designer, Dies A new article has been added to the Library at JoniMitchell.com: Title: Ed Thrasher, 74, Album Designer, Dies Publication: New York Times Date: 2006.08.24 Read it here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2271 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:13:52 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni Much ado about (arguably) very little, but interesting nonetheless. Webster's 11th has "clanDEStin" as the primary pronunciation. It is followed by the word *also,* which in this context means "A variant that is appreciably less common than the preceding variant . . .". Then it lists [clanDES] tine *or* teen *or* CLANdes [tin, tine, teen]. *"Or"* in Web 11 parlance means *"equal to."* Then we have this from p. 12a, Pronunciation/Variant Pronunciations: "The presence of variant pronunciations indicates that *not all educated speakers pronounce words the same way*. A second-place variant is not to be regarded as less acceptable than the pronunciation that is given first." This refers specifically to pronunciations Web 11 deem equal to each other, as in creek or crick. (In these here parts, "crick" would come first.) However, this is not the case with clandestine, as explained above, so I suppose that leaves the door open for disagreement. I always heard clanDEStin growing up. But when I first heard Joni's "clandesTINE" in "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow," I heard it as a very young singer soaking up everything Joni did, but most notably her utterly ingenious phrasing, which was a revelation to me. (Still is). It never occurred to me that she was clunkily mispronouncing it in order to make it rhyme. Same with "schoo-ells." I always go back to the Stephen Davis review that compelled me to buy my first Joni album, *For the Roses.* Here's the quote: "Yet her great charm and wit, her intense vocal acting and* phrasing abilities (the way she chooses to deal with a single word can change the feeling of an entire song)* and the sheer power and gumption of her presence combine to bring it all off and make it shine." http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=257&from=search I used that when I was learning to sing and trying to write songs, and never forgot it when singing covers. It's stuff like this that has made her such a major influence on so many generations of singers and musicians, whether they realize it or not. [Sorry if this comes out in funky formatting. Gmail has gone all double-spaced on me!] T On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:28 PM, wrote: > I think you are mistaken, Paul. > > Turn your speakers on and click here: > http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=clandestine&submit=Submit > > > > > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 21:52:29 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni worst rhymes - how about best lines? A thunderhead of judgment was Gathering in my gaze And looking down on everything I crashed into his arms You give me such pleasure You bring me such pain Who left her long black hair In our bathtub drain? Why have you soured and curdled me? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:57:33 -0400 From: Paul Ivice Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni I am not mistaken because I never made a judgment about whether Joni's pronunciation was good or bad. The question I answered was what was the most unusual phrasing or pronunciation in a line of Joni's songs. Regardless of the outcome of the exchange, Joni's pronunciation of "clan-des-TINE" remains the most unusual pronunciation I have heard in any of her songs. The first three online dictionaries I consulted agreed with the pronunciation I had always heard as correct, both growing up in the U.S. Midwest and living almost half my life now in the South. After citing that evidence, I asked if anyone had any authoritative evidence to the contrary. And now I have heard such evidence as provided in the link below, which describes the "clan-DES-tin" pronunciation as the American. Paul Ivice ;>) - -----Original Message----- From: T Peckham Then we have this from p. 12a, Pronunciation/Variant Pronunciations: "The presence of variant pronunciations indicates that not all educated speakers pronounce words the same way. A second-place variant is not to be regarded as less acceptable than the pronunciation that is given first." This refers specifically to pronunciations Web 11 deem equal to each other, as in creek or crick. (In these here parts, "crick" would come first.) However, this is not the case with clandestine, as explained above, so I suppose that leaves the door open for disagreement. I always heard clanDEStin growing up. But when I first heard Joni's "clandesTINE" in "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow," I heard it as a very young singer soaking up everything Joni did, but most notably her utterly ingenious phrasing, which was a revelation to me. (Still is). It never occurred to me that she was clunkily mispronouncing it in order to make it rhyme. Same with "schoo-ells." I always go back to the Stephen Davis review that compelled me to buy my first Joni album, For the Roses. Here's the quote: On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:28 PM, wrote: I think you are mistaken, Paul. Turn your speakers on and click here: http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=clandestine&submit=Submit ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:01:53 -0400 From: Paul Ivice Subject: favorite lines There are many, but one that just came to mind as I get my nightly background listed to "The Last Waltz" is :He's staring a hole in his scrambled eggs." Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:16:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni So, for you the issue is more that you hear the accent on the last syllable of clandestine? Interesting, because I hear it on the middle one - clan-DES-tine. Maybe the long /i/ in the last syllable (as Joni pronounces it) makes it sound like there's more emphasis on the last, but, to my ears, it's more like they've all (or at least the last two) got almost equal emphasis. Sorry to flog this. I was trying to ignore it because I've never been altogether clear how to pronounce that word, since it's one I've generally seen, rather than heard. I have no particular issue with it either way - they both sound OK to me. ________________________________ From: Paul Ivice To: northern.muse@gmail.com; rflynn@frontiernet.net Cc: joni@smoe.org; mark.travis@frontier.com; mark-leon@iinet.net.au Sent: Sun, September 19, 2010 10:57:33 PM Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni I am not mistaken because I never made a judgment about whether Joni's pronunciation was good or bad. The question I answered was what was the most unusual phrasing or pronunciation in a line of Joni's songs. Regardless of the outcome of the exchange, Joni's pronunciation of "clan-des-TINE" remains the most unusual pronunciation I have heard in any of her songs. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #262 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe