From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #156 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, June 7 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 156 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: WTRF LP re-master [Gerald Notaro ] Re: Some Joni Covers Links [Bob Muller ] Re: Some Joni Covers Links [Bob Muller ] Joni vinyl remasters [Chuck Eisenhardt ] Re: Some Joni Covers Links [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni vinyl remasters [Gerald Notaro ] Subject: Re: WTRF LP re-master ["Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: WTRF LP re-master I have a feeling , Mark, that these vinyl releases are based on the DCC remasters that you and I own. I doubt if they were done from scratch from the original master recordings, which would have been the best way to do it. There are two Japanese SHM-CD releases out now. One is Clouds the other of Blue. I think they are the best so far and hope more are released. Information on this process: The high quality SHM-CD (Super High Material CD) format features enhanced audio quality through the use of a special polycarbonate plastic. Using a process developed by JVC and Universal Music Japan discovered through the joint companies' research into LCD display manufacturing, SHM-CDs feature improved transparency on the data side of the disc, allowing for more accurate reading of CD data by the CD player laser head. SHM-CD format CDs are fully compatible with standard CD players. Jerry On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Mark Scott wrote: > I have a 24k gold plated cd 'original master recording' of WTRF that I > picked up years ago. I wonder how it would compare with these vinyl > releases? I also have DCC 24k gold plated cds of Blue and Court and Spark. > Any opinions about how these might compare to these vinyl remasters? > > I didn't pay a fortune for any of these but they were more than a regular > cd costs. In fact, I think I won the Blue cd in a contest that Wally Breese > ran may years ago when he still had JoniMitchell.com. I've always wondered > if the other 2 were worth the price, sound-wise. I don't think they are > available anymore and are rarities. But is the sound quality really > superior to say the HDCD releases or a mint condition well mastered vinyl > record? To me, the Court and Spark DCC sounds superior to any other cd > version and I have 3 - the first cd pressing (really inferior sound but I > was determined that it would be the first cd I owned), the HDCD and the DCC > gold. What can I say? Maybe I'm a sucker for new recording technology but > this may be my favorite record of all time > > I know there is somewhat of a trend back toward vinyl these days. I have a > friend who insists the sound is 'warmer' and superior to most cds. I > haven't played a vinyl record in years and I don't know if my turntable even > works anymore. I always liked the durability and ease of use of cds too > much to go back to vinyl. I was never fanatical about how I took care of my > records so I doubt any of them are in exactly pristine condition. You don't > have to be too careful with a cd to keep the sound of it intact. No > scratches or crackles. > > I still have my vinyl records, though. And I don't plan on parting with > them anytime soon if only because of the album covers which you just can't > duplicate on a little cd booklet. > > Mark in Seattle > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Chuck Eisenhardt" > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 7:57 AM > To: "JMDL List" > Subject: WTRF LP re-master > > (sorry if this is old news) There is a 180-vinyl remaster of Wild Things >> Run Fast >> currently in pre-order at Soundstage Direct. Bernie Grundman from the >> original >> analog masters. Two 45rpm disks, $60.00... >> >> So there now exist vinyl re-masters of Blue, HOSL, and LOTC. Is it a bit >> surprising to see this one appearing next? May have to do with obtaining >> rights, >> quality/condition of the masters, and things other than artistic >> considerations? >> >> I'd wait for reviews, but if it's anything like the Rhino Blue reissue >> it's a delicious >> propect. Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 07:38:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Some Joni Covers Links I'm sure that Bettye would do it justice, I'd be happier still if she would record the stunning version she did of 'Last Chance Lost' at Carnegie Hall. Bob NP: Ani, "Back Back Back" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 07:40:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Some Joni Covers Links < Etta James doing "Amelia." Where does this come from? Is it one of her albums, or is part of that elusive tribute that had Janet Jackson doing "Black Crow"?> Well....Janet's track was 'The Beat Of Black Wings', but hey, if you have a copy of her doing 'Black Crow' send it on! :-) And the answer to the question is yes, this Etta James cut is from the same disc, "A Case Of Joni" that never got released. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 11:10:45 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: Joni vinyl remasters Jerry, I don't know exactly what you mean when you say that you 'have a feeling' about the origins and production of these remasters (specifically the ones I've linked to below). These four productions are widely advertised as 're-mastered (or simply mastered) from original analog tapes'. I only have the Rhino/RTI pressing of Blue (in fact, I have 2, one unopened) so I cannot speak from my experience as to the sonic qualities of C&S, LOTC, and HOSL. But I have posted here and elsewhere that I find the Rhino/RTI Blue is a marvel. Most reviewers agree. The production note further indicate that most tracks were cut completely without EQ. I leave it to you to imagine I own a few other 180gram and 'audiophile this or that' which are not remastered, or not remastered from analog, and they are not remarkable. (Who's Next, Clear Spot). Theiy are pleasant, and stable, and pressed to virgin vinyl, but I wouldn't go so far as to write poetry about them. It be iinteresting also, to consider that Blue (at least) is analog from the get-go (board, effects, patch, mix) for whatever happy nuances that might create. That the other Joni albums are advertised as 'mastered from original analog tapes' I don't have any 'feelings' about that, except I wish I can someday hear and perhaps even own them. Talk about 'feelings' --- Bernie Grundman is likely heartbroken! http://www.musicdirect.com/product/78183 The best I could do is send you a 44.1 CD copy of this record (which after 5-6 plays has developed a bit of surface noise, but I'd be happy to do that and you could compare the two CD's at least....let me know. ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 08:23:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Some Joni Covers Links Hmm. Crows have black wings. I guess that's what I was thinking. ________________________________ From: Bob Muller To: Catherine McKay ; JMDL Cc: Monicard Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 10:40:51 AM Subject: Re: Some Joni Covers Links < Etta James doing "Amelia." Where does this come from? Is it one of her albums, or is part of that elusive tribute that had Janet Jackson doing "Black Crow"?> Well....Janet's track was 'The Beat Of Black Wings', but hey, if you have a copy of her doing 'Black Crow' send it on! :-) And the answer to the question is yes, this Etta James cut is from the same disc, "A Case Of Joni" that never got released. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 11:37:51 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Joni vinyl remasters I guess I am suspicious because these all came out after the remastering to cd's occurred first and the descriptions for them do not say they were specifically remastered for the vinyl pressings, or exclusively remastered for these vinyl pressings. Simply stating they are remastered does not mean they are not the remasterings done for the cd releases, especially since Rhino did the remasterings for the cd's. Your link credits Steve Hoffman with the remastering. And Steve Hoffman did the original DCC Gold remastering for Blue and still owns the rights to it. Though it is possible he tweaked a bit for the vinyl pressing. In any case, that is why I have "a feeling." Jerry On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Chuck Eisenhardt < c.eisenhardt@earthlink.net> wrote: > Jerry, > > I don't know exactly what you mean when you say that you 'have > a feeling' about the origins and production of these remasters > (specifically the ones I've linked to below). These four productions > are widely advertised as 're-mastered (or simply mastered) from original > analog tapes'. > > I only have the Rhino/RTI pressing of Blue (in fact, I have 2, one > unopened) so I cannot speak from my experience as to the sonic qualities > of C&S, LOTC, and HOSL. But I have posted here and elsewhere that > I find the Rhino/RTI Blue is a marvel. Most reviewers agree. The production > note further indicate that most tracks were cut completely without EQ. > I leave it to you to imagine > > I own a few other 180gram and 'audiophile this or that' which are not > remastered, or not remastered from analog, and they are not remarkable. > (Who's Next, Clear Spot). Theiy are pleasant, and stable, and pressed to > virgin > vinyl, but I wouldn't go so far as to write poetry about them. It be > iinteresting > also, to consider that Blue (at least) is analog from the get-go (board, > effects, > patch, mix) for whatever happy nuances that might create. > > That the other Joni albums are advertised as 'mastered from original analog > tapes' > I don't have any 'feelings' about that, except I wish I can someday hear > and perhaps even own them. Talk about 'feelings' --- Bernie Grundman > is likely heartbroken! > > http://www.musicdirect.com/product/78183 > > The best I could do is send you a 44.1 CD copy of this record (which after > 5-6 plays > has developed a bit of surface noise, but I'd be happy to do that and you > could > compare the two CD's at least....let me know. > > ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 13:27:28 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Subject: Re: WTRF LP re-master Some folks pay $2,000 for a tonearm, then $5,000 for a turntable to hold it, another $2,000 for a phono cartridge (needle to you and me), and finally, $5,000 for a phono preamp. If you play in that arena, $60 for a record is chicken feed. You could do that all day long and not break a sweat. I have a nice version of "Wild Things Run Fast" on vinyl but it's just a Quiex II version. The thing about Joni's albums is that none of them, except for Mingus, were engineered like audiophile records. For example, the first 3 seconds of the LP ("Chinese Cafe") has a wavering piano. If I understood Dave Blackburn correctly, it's intentional and was an added effect. It sounds like someone dragged a finger across a tape reel during playback; it sounds like a flaw to me. My point is that some engineers try to eliminate wavering sounds and some go for it. That's not something that you'd ordinarily hear on a specialty disc. Getting that last 10% just isn't something they were worried about so, in some ways, the garden variety versions are just fine for Joni's records. More examples: Old versions of Court and Spark seem (to me) to sound better than the ones made in this century. I think the tape has degraded, producing a shredding sound on "Car On the Hill". There's always been some shredding on that track but now it's worse. I bought many promo copies of "For The Roses" thinking there was a flaw in the records I bought. I still don't know where the distortion in "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" came from but I wasn't able to buy a solution for it. In the past I thought that getting better versions would bring me closer to the music but I don't think so now. I'm not chasing them anymore. Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #156 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe