From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #119 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, May 1 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 119 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan [Mike Pritchard ] Joni and Bob [Em ] Fundraiser for JM.com? [Robin Adler ] Re: Fundraiser for JM.com? [Michael Paz ] Joni Music Songbook? [Walt Breen ] Re: Joni Music Songbook? [Dave Blackburn ] Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan [Lieve Reckers ] Seattle Center Arena/For The Roses [Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan Dave B said: But this article by Stephen Thomas lays out a carefully documented series of cases in which Dylan really has been fraudulent and plagiaristic. I cannot see anything that is carefully documented in the article. Has it been edited (out)? I was expecting stuff like the real name of the writer of When the Levee Breaks (Memphis Minnie?) or Dylans lie about who the sad eyed lady of the lowland was. In Sara, on the Desire album, he claims it was written for his wife; Joan Baez famously begged to differ. I would like to hear more careful documentation but I see none in this article as it appears today. I have no issues with Dylan's playing, and popularising traditional songs, but to say he wrote many of them is not on. I also disagree with the statement in the article that having six actors play Dylan in Im not there was the only way to portray his multifacetednessicity; it was one way; the way the director planned it. The article is full of nothing of interest. mike in bcn np ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 20:41:03 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Safaris and The Arrangement Jenny, you are most welcome to the compliments on your astounding cover of The Arrangement. I meant every word. It is a rarest of occasions for me to actually find a cover that eclipses Joni's original. You breathed new life into this song and made it the incredible song it deserved to be. I had previously passed over this song every time I played the album but, your version made me sit up and take notice of it. Excellent thinking to try something less covered. I would love to hear you try that some more. Possibly some more from the same album. The Priest, maybe. Your voice would be amazing on that song. How about, Conversation. I always thought of Conversation and, The Arrangement as two parts to the same song. If I never hear another Joni cover from you, I will always treasure, The Arrangement. Mark in Sydney NP Rainy Night House - JM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:03:16 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan I get where you're coming from, Stephen. Comparisons between Joni and Bob would be futile except for one thing; Joni has always emphatically cited Dylan as one of her biggest influences. She states in Woman of Heart and Mind that it was his personalised storytelling that influenced her style of writing. I know that the two of them haven't always been on the best of terms with one another. I believe it was David Geffen who introduced them. I guess because he had been a songwriter longer than she had and had a solid fanbase that he tended to belittle Joni's music. I get the feeling he thought her songs were a little lightweight. On the other hand, there was that extra verse Dylan wrote for Big Yellow Taxi. She must have liked it because she used to add it in to her performances of it. I think it's actually included in the Miles of Aisles recording of the song. On the flip side, I get the feeling Joni didn't get along too well with Bob's mentor and girlfriend, Joan Baez. I'm not sure how Bob Dylan's career would have panned out without the influence and pushing from Joan. Did Joni see this as a form of prostitution? Joni must surely have seen this as an easy way into show business when she had to struggle on her own. Apart from Chuck's help in the beginning, Joni, it seems, did just about everything herself. Her own manager, booking agent, etc, etc. Maybe Joni was/is resentful of the help Bob had and then he puts down her own original work. I'm no expert on Bob Dylan because he was never my taste either. Although, I was a bit of a Joan Baez fan for a while until I realised most of her work was not original. The songs I liked of Joan's were actually old English folk songs. Although David Crosby was Joni's biggest advocate, she was still fiercely independent. She was nobody's prostitute. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 05:02:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan That was a great post, Stephen - I was not a major Dylan fan UNTIL I heard Blood On The Tracks in 1975. That album totally blew me away, still does, and is only topped by Hejira on my list of favorite records. I've since gone back and picked up all of his pre-BOTT stuff and have a much deeper appreciation for it, and of course have followed his post BOTT career as well. I really admire his desire to continue pursuing his art, touring, his radio show. Right or not, Joni comes off pretty bitter and negative with these recent comments. Bob NP: The Slip, "The Original Blue Air" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:13:24 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Safaris and The Arrangement On 30 April 2010 11:41, Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > Jenny, you are most welcome to the compliments on your astounding cover of > The Arrangement. I meant every word. Me, too, Jenny. Your whole album remains a big favourite of mine and your song 'Broken' and 'Jonah' rate always most highly. Ra Ra Ra ah ah Roma Ro Ma Ma Ga Ga Ooo La La OMLG Anita (trying to 'roll with the hip kids' but clearly sounding like the dancing granny who falls over at a wedding) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:57:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Joni and Bob Bob is the Picasso, and Joni is the Joan Miro. :P Loves me some Miro! Loves me some Picasso too! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:31:01 -0700 From: Robin Adler Subject: Fundraiser for JM.com? Hello folks, I was on my hike early this morning watching the rocks and the cactuses going by and I was thinking the JMDLers are such a wonderful supportive community. Les Irvin does an incredible job on maintaining one of the best websites I've ever been to so how could Dave and I give back to the community and the website. So, I am posing this to you all. Dave and I could offer an online real time fundraising concert. We would charge a nominal fee with 100% of the proceeds going to JoniMitchell.com. I don't know anything about how to do this but I know it has been done before. My question to you all is: 1. What are the technical considerations and what would we (Dave and I) need as far as equipment to do a webcast? 2. It would be fun to have other musicians that do Joni's music involved but I don't know how difficult that would be to coordinate in real time from different parts of the country. Okay, Dave just came in the room and offered another suggestion. He thinks a webcast might be beyond our technical capabilities. What might be more realistic and within our means is to put together a cd of Joni covers by JMDLers. Kind of like what we've done from past Joni Fests but open to all of you. Dave could then put them together and master them and sell it for $5 or $6 as a down load just within the JMDL community and have all of the proceeds go to JoniMitchell.com. We'd love to offer our services one way or the other. What do you think? Love, Robin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:48:38 -0400 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Fundraiser for JM.com? You have to have an uplink on a T-1 type connection so that audio and or video is fast enough to support it. At the very first Voodoo festival in New Orleans my video crew was the first crew to broadcast a rock concert on the internet in real time. Rolling Stone.com provided the link. Other than that you just send them a stereo pair for audio. If it is during a time I am in New Orleans I would love to participate. I can hook you guy up with someone that can help with the uplink. Congrats and great idea. Best Paz P.S. Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Apr 30, 2010, at 2:31 PM, Robin Adler wrote: Hello folks, I was on my hike early this morning watching the rocks and the cactuses going by and I was thinking the JMDLers are such a wonderful supportive community. Les Irvin does an incredible job on maintaining one of the best websites I've ever been to so how could Dave and I give back to the community and the website. So, I am posing this to you all. Dave and I could offer an online real time fundraising concert. We would charge a nominal fee with 100% of the proceeds going to JoniMitchell.com. I don't know anything about how to do this but I know it has been done before. My question to you all is: 1. What are the technical considerations and what would we (Dave and I) need as far as equipment to do a webcast? 2. It would be fun to have other musicians that do Joni's music involved but I don't know how difficult that would be to coordinate in real time from different parts of the country. Okay, Dave just came in the room and offered another suggestion. He thinks a webcast might be beyond our technical capabilities. What might be more realistic and within our means is to put together a cd of Joni covers by JMDLers. Kind of like what we've done from past Joni Fests but open to all of you. Dave could then put them together and master them and sell it for $5 or $6 as a down load just within the JMDL community and have all of the proceeds go to JoniMitchell.com. We'd love to offer our services one way or the other. What do you think? Love, Robin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:08:52 -0600 From: Walt Breen Subject: Joni Music Songbook? Hi gang, Sue Tierney (I think) mentioned a hypothetical (complete?) Joni songbook, presumably piano-oriented, as opposed to the Joni Comlete guitar book, which I snatched up as soon as I heard about it -- it works well imo as a fake book for keyboardists. Speaking of which, I could understand the four Joni/Mingus being excluded as they just we really not guitar songs (although anyone withtalent could certainly transform them into something beautifl). What shocked me was the omission of For Love or Money, the last cut from MoA. Was the omission due to the fact that they never bothered to chart it, or perhaps they lost the charts sometime after the tour? I know this is old news, but it bugs me. Walt "Little" Breen Let the walls come tumbling down Let them fall right on the ground Let all the dogs go running free The wild and the gentle dogs Kenneled in me (Joni Mitchell, Jericho, 1974) Visit my websites: www.learninginsights.info and www.booksbywalt.com _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:55:39 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Joni Music Songbook? Hi Walt, Who would be doing the transcriptions for a "complete" piano oriented songbook, I wonder? It's a hell of a lot of work unless someone has been at it for years and is getting paid to take on such a huge undertaking. I imagine we would have heard about it if someone was in that position. Though far from a complete set, I would point any pianists to the piano transcriptions that I, Howard Wright and Michael Dunn have been doing for the last few years, which are downloadable pdfs and are free. They are scrupulously accurate (unless otherwise noted) and are gig tested. Those of you with the out takes from Safaris to the Heart, for example, will have heard my Judgement of the Moon and Stars transcription performed. thanks, Dave On Apr 30, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Walt Breen wrote: > Hi gang, > > > > Sue Tierney (I think) mentioned a hypothetical (complete?) Joni > songbook, > presumably piano-oriented, as opposed to the Joni Comlete guitar > book, which I > snatched up as soon as I heard about it -- it works well imo as a > fake book > for keyboardists. Speaking of which, I could understand the four > Joni/Mingus > being excluded as they just we really not guitar songs (although > anyone > withtalent could certainly transform them into something beautifl). > What > shocked me was the omission of For Love or Money, the last cut from > MoA. Was > the omission due to the fact that they never bothered to chart it, > or perhaps > they lost the charts sometime after the tour? I know this is old > news, but it > bugs me. > > Walt "Little" Breen > > Let the walls come tumbling down > Let them fall right on the ground > Let all the dogs go running free > The wild and the gentle dogs > Kenneled in me > (Joni Mitchell, Jericho, 1974) > Visit my websites: www.learninginsights.info and www.booksbywalt.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL > :en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:54:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan I must admit, I was appalled to see Joni lashing out at Bob Dylan in this way. At Madonna, that I could understand, for the reasons Joni gives. But Joni has quoted Dylan as an inspiration (for writing personal lyrics), she has toured with Dylan, they go back so far together, it feels like she is throwing mud at her own family. Besides, a bit of humility and good manners would go a long way... I don't want to find excuses for bad behaviour, imagine she was joking or being provocative. She is responsible for what she says, and I wish she would apologise or give some proper explanation to put the comment in context. I also think Stephen Thomas is right in what he writes in his article about Dylan, which is the same point Stephen Epstein (below)makes: Dylan is not trying to be original in the way that Joni is. There is no need for comparisons. I absolutely adore the music of both. I completely get it when Dylan describes himself as a "song and dance man". The more I discover about American folk music, the music of the depression years which inspired Dylan so much, and its fantastic mixture with blues, the more I appreciate what Dylan has done to keep this tradition alive, develop it and give it a new life. Listen, for instance, to "Meet me in the Morning" and "If You See Her, Say Hello" on Blood on the Tracks. The article Folk Lies by Jonny Whiteside first worried me when I started reading it. Was I being fooled like all those other gullible Dylan fans he ridicules so cruelly? But then I read that he even loathes Joni's music, and I felt instantly relieved. OK, I have nothing to learn from that guy. So what about Dylan's voice? Well personally I love it too, it does exactly what he wants it to do, it is expressive, even if not traditionally pretty. (Dave, I am surprised you find it so dire, since I seem to remember you like Steely Dan, and I think there is some sort of similarity in the way Dylan and Fagan use their voice. But in the end, I totally accept that it is no good to argue over taste!) Also, I don't understand how a voice can be fake, as Joni claims. There are so many different ways to use a voice, and if someone chooses to sing from the throat in one song, and from the chest in another, that's nothing to do with fake, I would have thought. Finally, Dylan's lyrics. I agree that they are often very obscure, and that some words or images may have been chosen because they rhymed. But I don't see that as a problem; most of those rhymes create a firework of images, each line setting off another explosion of colours on the dark sky canvass of our mind. I think that works brilliantly with the music, even if it's not always literally meaningful or personal. In fact, a little footnote. I know of someone (a friend of a friend) who claims to have written the lyrics to some of Dylan's well known earlier songs. He got paid for it at the time and will never go to press with it. If it's true, then it's not plagiarism but some ghost writing at the time of Dylan going through a dry spell. Maybe not entirely honest, but it does not diminish my appreciation for him. With such a body of work, going for so long, and as Stephen says, still performing, I can only have great admiration for the man, human flaws and all. Lieve in London - ---------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:43:21 -0400 From: Stephen_Epstein@hugoboss.com Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan well, i am a fan of Dylan.. i never liked him when i was younger, but when i was 12 or 13 and @ my cousins house in new rochelle, ny, my older cousin "escaped" from the hospital or group home he was in for troubled kids- could've been Bellevue, and he stormed into the house, pouring rain outside- i almost didn't recognise him, he was so f-cked up- he ran into his former bedroom, flushed all his pills of lsd down the toilet, and started to play early Bob at a huge volume. ever since then, i found a liking and affinity to early Bob- but you really have to crank it up. This was a time that was ripe for someone like him to come along- absolutely a plagiarist, a mixer of things past with his take on it. All the folk artists back then did the same. I recently read his volume 1 autobiography, and thought it fabulous. he is a poet and writer, so why shouldn't the book be fab? i think he is brilliant, and lots of his recent recordings have not been on the radar. the man continues to write, record and travel in concert- nothing to prove anymore, and still giving back. joni has always struck me in a place that no one else has, not dylan or anyone else. i think the comarrisons are futile! best Stehen in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:59:23 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New article: Dylan and Joni: unexpected tension lasts A new article has been added to the Library at JoniMitchell.com: Title: Dylan and Joni: unexpected tension lasts Publication: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Date: 2010.4.30 Read it here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2242 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:25:10 -0700 From: Corey Blake Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan Lieve, I think for me part of the "fake voice" thing resonates because it makes me question if he's putting on a character or if he's honestly singing in his own voice. Or, similar, but in another aspect, it's the same uneasiness I feel when I can hear someone speaking with an affectation. There are people who speak, and you (or I can, at least) tell that they are putting on a voice, and not speaking in their normal speaking voice. This is either caused by stress or discomfort in who they are in public or a myriad other overly psychoanalyzing theories. Whatever the back story or the reason, it has the effect of someone putting on airs or being fake, and for some reason that is in some way unsettling. Sincerity and emotional honesty go a long way with me, especially in creative expression. (Probably another reason why I don't like when people imply or outright state that, as an actor, I should have an easier time lying or faking something.) But I guess if I really think about it, it shouldn't really matter. Why do I need to feel better to think that the way Bob Dylan sings, and has sung, is authentic? So little of his music is pure autobiographical (or "confessional," to use a term Joni detests) so it probably shouldn't really matter whether he's singing as himself or as a character. And even if he is singing about himself, why can't he look at himself through a character (if he indeed is putting on a character)? The same questions, I think, can be applied to Tom Waits. Another fantastic songwriter. But listen to his voice on his first album, and then compare it to later albums. It's like a total metamorphosis to me. I guess with him, though, I'm more apt to believe that he found his "true" voice after the first album, because it's not like he shifts back and forth. And maybe Bob Dylan was just experimenting with singing a different way and then returned to his "true" voice. As for the plagiarism charges in his songwriting, I too see him as coming from the "old school" of folk music where melodies and lyrics were passed down, borrowed, and evolved. Is that plagiarism in today's age of aggressively protected intellectual property? Is one way wrong and the other right? That's a big topic to explore and I don't think there's one all-encompassing answer. I'm still thinking a lot of this through, even as I write this. It's an interesting discussion and I think a valid topic to explore. I also understand Joni's desire to not be considered a folk singer, or whatever insecurity was stung by the phrasing of the interviewer's question. And it's entirely possible that what was said, what was transcribed, what was edited, and what was finally published, evolved into something very different. But in the end, I agree that Joni could've broached the topic much more tactfully and respectfully. - -Corey On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Lieve Reckers wrote: > I must admit, I was appalled to see Joni lashing out at Bob Dylan in this > way. At Madonna, that I could understand, for the reasons Joni gives. But > Joni has quoted Dylan as an inspiration (for writing personal lyrics), she > has > toured with Dylan, they go back so far together, it feels like she is > throwing > mud at her own family. Besides, a bit of humility and good manners would > go a > long way... I don't want to find excuses for bad behaviour, imagine she > was > joking or being provocative. She is responsible for what she says, and I > wish > she would apologise or give some proper explanation to put the comment in > context. > > I also think Stephen Thomas is right in what he writes in his > article about Dylan, which is the same point Stephen Epstein (below)makes: > Dylan is not trying to be original in the way that Joni is. There is no > need > for comparisons. I absolutely adore the music of both. > I completely get it > when Dylan describes himself as a "song and dance man". The more I > discover > about American folk music, the music of the depression years which inspired > Dylan so much, and its fantastic mixture with blues, the more I appreciate > what Dylan has done to keep this tradition alive, develop it and give it a > new > life. Listen, for instance, to "Meet me in the Morning" and "If You See > Her, > Say Hello" on Blood on the Tracks. > The article Folk Lies by > Jonny Whiteside first worried me when I started reading it. Was I being > fooled like all those other gullible Dylan fans he ridicules so cruelly? > But > then I read that he even loathes Joni's music, and I felt instantly > relieved. > OK, I have nothing to learn from that guy. > > So what about Dylan's voice? > Well personally I love it too, it does exactly what he wants it to do, it > is > expressive, even if not traditionally pretty. (Dave, I am surprised you > find > it so dire, since I seem to remember you like Steely Dan, and I think there > is > some sort of similarity in the way Dylan and Fagan use their voice. But in > the end, I totally accept that it is no good to argue over taste!) > Also, I > don't understand how a voice can be fake, as Joni claims. There are so > many > different ways to use a voice, and if someone chooses to sing from the > throat > in one song, and from the chest in another, that's nothing to do with fake, > I > would have thought. > > Finally, Dylan's lyrics. I agree that they are often > very obscure, and that some words or images may have been chosen because > they > rhymed. But I don't see that as a problem; most of those rhymes create a > firework of images, each line setting off another explosion of colours on > the > dark sky canvass of our mind. I think that works brilliantly with the > music, > even if it's not always literally meaningful or personal. > In fact, a little > footnote. I know of someone (a friend of a friend) who claims to have > written > the lyrics to some of Dylan's well known earlier songs. He got paid for it > at > the time and will never go to press with it. If it's true, then it's not > plagiarism but some ghost writing at the time of Dylan going through a dry > spell. Maybe not entirely honest, but it does not diminish my appreciation > for him. With such a body of work, going for so long, and as Stephen says, > still performing, I can only have great admiration for the man, human flaws > and all. > > Lieve in London > > > ---------- > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:43:21 -0400 > From: Stephen_Epstein@hugoboss.com > Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: > Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan > > well, > > i am a fan > of Dylan.. > > i never liked him when i was younger, but when i was 12 or 13 and > @ my > cousins house in new rochelle, ny, my older cousin "escaped" from the > hospital or group home he was in for troubled kids- could've been > Bellevue, > and he stormed into the house, pouring rain outside- i almost > didn't > recognise him, he was so f-cked up- he ran into his former bedroom, > flushed > all his pills of lsd down the toilet, and started to play early > Bob at a > huge volume. ever since then, i found a liking and affinity to > early Bob- > but you really have to crank it up. > > This was a time that was ripe for > someone like him to come along- > absolutely a plagiarist, a mixer of things > past with his take on it. All > the folk artists back then did the same. > > I > recently read his volume 1 autobiography, and thought it fabulous. he > is a > poet and writer, so why shouldn't the book be fab? > i think he is brilliant, > and lots of his recent recordings have not been > on the radar. > the man > continues to write, record and travel in concert- nothing to prove > anymore, > and still giving back. > > joni has always struck me in a place that no one else > has, not dylan or > anyone else. > > i think the comarrisons are futile! > > best > Stehen in Toronto > - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com Mailing List - http://coreyblake.googlepages.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 18:16:03 -0600 From: Walt Breen Subject: RE: Joni Music Songbook? Dave said: <> Yeah, I thought of that. Even if the used the already existing versdions already published, these vary in quality/detail; and it would have to be a multi-volume set. But one can dream... Walt "Little" Breen Let the walls come tumbling down Let them fall right on the ground Let all the dogs go running free The wild and the gentle dogs Kenneled in me (Joni Mitchell, Jericho, 1974) Visit my websites: www.learninginsights.info and www.booksbywalt.com > CC: joni@smoe.org > From: beatntrack@sbcglobal.net > To: littlebreen@live.com > Subject: Re: Joni Music Songbook? > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:55:39 -0700 > > Hi Walt, > > Who would be doing the transcriptions for a "complete" piano oriented > songbook, I wonder? It's a hell of a lot of work unless someone has > been at it for years and is getting paid to take on such a huge > undertaking. I imagine we would have heard about it if someone was in > that position. Though far from a complete set, I would point any > pianists to the piano transcriptions that I, Howard Wright and Michael > Dunn have been doing for the last few years, which are downloadable > pdfs and are free. They are scrupulously accurate (unless otherwise > noted) and are gig tested. Those of you with the out takes from > Safaris to the Heart, for example, will have heard my Judgement of the > Moon and Stars transcription performed. > > thanks, > > Dave _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 10:32:40 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Seattle Center Arena/For The Roses Hello everyone. I thought I'd package up a little gift for you all. This is Joni's 1974 performance at the Seattle Center Arena. I estimate this was just after the release of Court & Spark and just before Miles of Aisles. Before MoA because she performs Jericho but says she doesn't have a title for it yet. In many of her shows around that time, Joni tells her story of the Arbutus tree but, it wasn't until I heard her tell it in this concert that I really understood the lyrics of, For The Roses. Not that I fully understand what she is saying now but, it made me realise that, like a great many of Joni's songs, this one too is about duality and an internal struggle. She has told the story before of how, in 1972, she wanted to escape the city and get back to some nature so, she moved up to a cabin in BC. Yet, she realised that she was missing the urban lifestyle a short time later. It has been said that, For The Roses may be about James Taylor. After a careful listen to the lyrics and Joni's story, it seems to me that it may be about her. The thought of David Crosby crossed my mind too. Anyone wanting to hear Joni tell the story, don't read the next paragraph, just download the show. Sitting in her quiet cabin one night in the Winter, the leaves of the Arbutus tree outside had frozen and formed ice. When the wind blew through the trees, the ice laden leaves clapped together and sounded like applause in the distance. She went outside into the night to see what was making the sound and she found herself standing in a shaft of light from the moon. It felt like she was on stage, in the spotlight with an audience applauding. Maybe that's what inspired her to return to Los Angeles and resume her career. This feeling of being pulled in two different directions and wanting two opposing things in her life seems to be a pattern to Joni's lyrics. It's possible that Joni had James Taylor in mind when she was writing the song and is relaying her thoughts to him. I think the poet in the office might have been David Geffen and it was David Crosby he was asking to circulate his soul around. Any thoughts? Keep in mind that this is an audience recording so, the quality is not that great. The guy who recorded it tried so hard to keep quiet. You can hear him trying to hold back a cough. You can download CD 1 here: http://rcpt.yousendit.com/863832751/f7305fd08a96e659e5804abd08bc2a2e You can download CD 2 here: https://download.yousendit.com/THE2RGx4ZEt0TWxFQlE9PQ Mark in Sydney NP Cactus Tree - JM (Seattle Center Arena, 1974) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #119 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe