From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #107 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, April 19 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 107 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- happy albeit anxious new love [Barry Swimar ] Retro Covers, Volume 49 [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Safaris to the Heart [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Safaris to the Heart/Mutts of the Planet [Dave Blackburn ] Re: A letter from Sheila Weller [Mags ] Hissing Question [Leah Welborn ] Re: A letter from Sheila Weller [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: A letter from Sheila Weller [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: A letter from Sheila Weller [Corey Blake ] Re: Hissing Question [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: A letter from Sheila Weller [Catherine McKay ] Re: Hissing Question [Mags ] Re: A letter from Sheila Weller [Catherine McKay ] Re: Hissing Question [Anita G ] Re: Hissing Question [Stephen_Epstein@hugoboss.com] Re: A letter from Sheila Weller ["Mark" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 02:16:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Barry Swimar Subject: happy albeit anxious new love I Don't Know Where I Stand ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 08:11:56 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Retro Covers, Volume 49 Man, I am soooooooooooooo far behind the times - put this together for the download but forgot the CD to post the tracklist...anyway, you can go snag it now if you want: http://tinyurl.com/y2zl669 And I'll post more about it tomorrow. Bob NP: Lucky Dube, "Feel Irie" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 08:24:07 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Safaris to the Heart <"Wow. These are incredible musicians."> Hi Jill - I was listening to it in the car and in my living room this weekend and had the same thoughts. Of course, the first couple times I heard it Robin's voice was center stage but on Saturday I specifically spent time listening to the other musical colors on the tracks. Dave's guitar playing is just phenomenal, the textures and nuances are just amazing. I prefer the Mutts' version of Cherokee Louise to Joni's own by a large margin. It just sounds better. Wish I could be there for the CD release gig! Bob NP: Lucinda Williams, "Sidewalks Of The City" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 07:25:47 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Safaris to the Heart/Mutts of the Planet Dear Jill and Jonimates, Many thanks for your kudos on the CD. Obviously it was a project intended for the existing Joni fan base to enjoy, but it is especially gratifying if it is bringing new listeners to her music. "Jazz only" folks are a tight clique, like "classical only" people, who often have strict parameters defining what is "proper" in order for them to like the music (you must have played with Miles or Coltrane, you must be from Chicago or NYC, you must have died in your prime etc ;-)). Joni, although not really accepted into the jazz clique by jazz listeners, is hugely admired by jazz PLAYERS. John Guerin and Tom Scott may have been her personal introduction to that world of players but the chain reaction that began when she had Jaco Pastorius (also a jazz phenomenon not accepted by "true" jazz fans) play on Hejira, led her to hire Wayne Shorter, and then to Charles Mingus, and you don't get much a more bona fide jazzcat than him. With those credentials she was able to attract jazz legends Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays and Michael Brecker to go on tour, a feat in itself since they all had busy careers to promote for themselves. Nowadays she is cited as a huge influence on the recent generation of jazz vocalists, Cassandra Wilson, Diana Krall and.............Robin Adler. Which brings me conveniently back to Safaris to the Heart and Jill's kind offer to help us get the word out on it. In this media saturated culture news becomes old news really fast, and keeping the buzz going about a new release is not easy without an advertising budget, maybe not even with one. So..... Helpful act #1 would be simply to play it for friends or recommend it to your circle. Facebook is the perfect way to tell your circle about something you like, and adding a link to http://robinadler.com/ to your wall post plus a few words from you would be great and just takes a moment. Burning friends a copy is, needless to say, not helpful even if it does propagate the music. It devalues the work both figuratively and literally. Our initial goal is a modest one: to break even. This is why we are trying to sell CDs directly, before it goes out to CD Baby, iTunes, Amazon etc. We will reach our "break even" goal much faster if there aren't behemoth middle men forcing you to sell at a discounted price and then taking their cut out of that. Helpful act #2, then, would be to order your CDs from http://www.robinadler.com/products.html . And, as a bonus, all JMDLers who buy the CD will be sent a link to download the three tunes that were omitted from the album as it was getting too long; they are Judgement of the Moon & Stars, Blue and River. All you have to do is note that you are from the JMDL. I know by name those of you who post, but obviously don't recognize the lurkers, so just writing "JMDL" in the note area of the PayPal transaction will help us know where you came from. Downloads. If you really really don't want another plastic disc in your life we are now downloadable also via Digstation. Eventually it will go to iTunes and Amazon, but Digstation is unique in that it pays the artist 100% of the sale price. http://www.digstation.com/ArtistAlbums.aspx?albumid=ALB000045169 Helpful act #3: Reviews can be posted by anyone at http://www.digstation.com/AlbumReviews.aspx?albumID=ALB000045169 and we also have a guestbook at http://www.robinadler.com/guestbook.html . Helpful act #4. Come to hear us live. The CD release show, which is to be shot in HD video, is May 22nd at Tango del Rey in San Diego http://web.me.com/cpsociety/Tango_Del_Rey/Home.html . Advance tickets can be purchased (your PayPal receipt will actually be your ticket) from http://www.robinadler.com/calendar.html We'll also be on the main stage at Idyllwild Jazz in the Pines, perhaps opening for Lee Ritenour or the Yellowjackets (!) on Saturday August 28th. http://www.idyllwildjazz.com/ Thanks everyone for your support. You guys are great. It is our hope that we have crafted an interesting new angle on some amazing Joni compositions, one that is worthy of her, and one you'll want in your music collection. Dave and Robin On Apr 18, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Jill Haas wrote: > Hey JoniListas, Dave and Robin, > > Just wanted to add my compliments on this beatiful piece of work. My > roommate and best friend, Jeff Holtzman is a "Jazz only" fan and not > a fan of Joni, but I'm catching him playing "Safaris" constantly. To > quote his statements while driving in the car, he said "These are > amazing arrangements," and later, "Wow. These are incredible > musicians." > > I have tried for years to get him to listen to Joni and convince him > that she is "jazz worthy." He has, at times, reluctantly agreed, but > this is the first unsolicedes statements of admiration about Joni's > work I've heard from him. "Safaris from the Heart." Thanks Robin, > Dave and all of the wonderful musicians, fans, JMDL support and the > effort to bring this wonderful CD together and do something I have > worked 30 years to do--make Jeff like Joni. > > I'm both a jazz fan and a Joni fan, so the "Safaris" Cd is getting > worn out. Good thing I have two of them. > > Dave and Robin - please let me and the rest of JMDL know all of the > places we can help get the word out about "Safaris." A list of all > of the places we can write reviews? Amazon? Where else. Please don't > hold back. There are many of us who would like to help make this a > great > success. > > Best, > > Jill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:17:37 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Safaris to the Heart/Mutts of the Planet It is our hope that we > have crafted an interesting new angle on some amazing Joni compositions, one > that is worthy of her,> Dave and Robin You have. And EVERYONE will know that once they have it in their collections. You must be thrilled. And I shall bathe in reflected glory, saying 'I said it was brilliant first!' :~)) Love Anita ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:02:06 -0700 From: Leah Welborn Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller <> Mags and Catherine, yes! I'm so glad you two mentioned the feelings about Jackson Browne: like Mags, I love Jackson's voice, but don't own any of his work. That thing about him supposedly beating Daryl Hannah turned me off him when I was a teenager. And (also according to Weller), Joni insists that he hit her, too. So, yea. Unfortunately, I have a bit of the same animosity toward James Taylor. According to Weller's book, Joni still thought there was something between them when he married Carly. A mutual friend had to call to tell her he was married. As far as the suicide attempt/ Car on a Hill goes... you guys know I'm new to the list and to Joni, but I do know depression and suicide quite well. It ain't one thing that does it. It's kind of like a bathtub filled to the very brim. You can pour one glass, heck, one cup of water, into the tub, and it's gonna overflow. You can blame that last cup all you want, but if the tub hadn't already been full, the water would have stayed put. And from what I understand, she characterizes the time right around Blue as a very traumatic one for her. Maybe you guys know this cool little book about Court and Spark by Sean Nelson? He has some cool interpretations of the songs. He proffers that the narrator of Car on a Hill is not "joni" per se, but another more timid, fragile woman (and when one is in emotional trauma, one's self often feels fragmented)..anyway, I like the book a lot, and would love to hear what other people think about it. xoxoxo Leah > > Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Mags > Subject: Re: a letter from Sheila Weller > > Catherine, > > it must have been an amazing experience to see both Joni and Jackson in > Massey Hall.(my favourite venue in Toronto fwiw). > > Ive had similar feelings about Jackson since learning about the heart ache > he > caused her. Therein lies the rub. Ive had a few off list chats about this > very > thing..I love some of Jackson's work, dont own any, but do admit to loving > his > voice. Very hard to separate the music from the beast, n'est-ce pas?? > > Mags > > > > - --- On Sun, 4/18/10, Catherine McKay wrote: > > > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: a letter from Sheila Weller > To: "T Peckham" , "JMDL" > Received: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 7:26 PM > > > Jackson Browne was Joni's opening act when I saw her years ago (the first > time > I ever saw her) at Massey Hall in Toronto. That was in between the "Blue" > and > "For the Roses" albums, so probably around 1972? I didn't know much about > Joni's personal life back then. In fact, I never knew much about her > personal > life until joining this list (whenever that was!) I guess I just never > thought > about it much (that might have wrecked all the projecting I may have been > doing - heh heh.) I was surprised too, later, (much later!), when I > learned > they had been lovers. They can't have been together very long. > > Anyway, is it just me, or does anyone else feel a bit of a hate on for > people > who did Joni wrong? I knew there was something about Jackson Browne I > didn't > like, but I never could put my finger on it! (OK, that was kind of a joke, > but > I never got into him anyway.) > > > > ________________________________ > From: T Peckham > To: JMDL > Sent: Sun, April 18, 2010 5:46:48 PM > Subject: a letter from Sheila Weller > > Just realized I didn't respond to this. When I was first working on the > book, I too was surprised by the whole episode, but mainly because of the > "Car On A Hill"/Jackson Browne connection. Back then, anyone who read > Rolling Stone (or all the album credits) knew about Joni's relationships > with Graham Nash and JT, but Jackson? Not so much. All I remember was that > she played electric piano on his "Sing My Songs To Me" from *For Everyman*, > an album my friends and I assumed was all about Phyllis. (Pretty > presumptuous of us, eh?) ;-) > > Anyway, the older I get, the more I am reminded that it's best to keep an > open mind---sometimes it's the only thing I feel capable of changing > anymore. :-) T > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Tired of > spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2010 #114 > ***************************** > > ------- > Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:14:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller Leah, that's what got me going vis a vis Jackson in the first place , when I heard he hit Darryl Hannah..it was very hard for me to listen to him and not think about that aforementioned beast within. Man's a coward who hits/acts violently toward women. I have that little Court and Spark book, and love it a lot, as it was my first introduc tion to Joni Mitchell...the album, not the book ;-)...anyway...I continue to learn from this list and gain more and more as time goes on. keep writing, Leah, I know that everyone is having a lot of fun bouncing ideas back and forth. Mags in tremendously gorgeously brilliant spring in Winnipeg, several weeks early!!!! - --- On Mon, 4/19/10, Leah Welborn wrote: From: Leah Welborn Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller To: joni@smoe.org Cc: joni-digest@smoe.org Received: Monday, April 19, 2010, 1:02 PM <> Mags and Catherine, yes! I'm so glad you two mentioned the feelings about Jackson Browne: like Mags, I love Jackson's voice, but don't own any of his work. That thing about him supposedly beating Daryl Hannah turned me off him when I was a teenager. And (also according to Weller), Joni insists that he hit her, too. So, yea. Unfortunately, I have a bit of the same animosity toward James Taylor. According to Weller's book, Joni still thought there was something between them when he married Carly. A mutual friend had to call to tell her he was married. As far as the suicide attempt/ Car on a Hill goes... you guys know I'm new to the list and to Joni, but I do know depression and suicide quite well. It ain't one thing that does it. It's kind of like a bathtub filled to the very brim. You can pour one glass, heck, one cup of water, into the tub, and it's gonna overflow. You can blame that last cup all you want, but if the tub hadn't already been full, the water would have stayed put. And from what I understand, she characterizes the time right around Blue as a very traumatic one for her. Maybe you guys know this cool little book about Court and Spark by Sean Nelson? He has some cool interpretations of the songs. He proffers that the narrator of Car on a Hill is not "joni" per se, but another more timid, fragile woman (and when one is in emotional trauma, one's self often feels fragmented)..anyway, I like the book a lot, and would love to hear what other people think about it. xoxoxo Leah > > Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Mags > Subject: Re: a letter from Sheila Weller > > Catherine, > > it must have been an amazing experience to see both Joni and Jackson in > Massey Hall.(my favourite venue in Toronto fwiw). > > Ive had similar feelings about Jackson since learning about the heart ache > he > caused her. Therein lies the rub. Ive had a few off list chats about this > very > thing..I love some of Jackson's work, dont own any, but do admit to loving > his > voice. Very hard to separate the music from the beast, n'est-ce pas?? > > Mags > > > > - --- On Sun, 4/18/10, Catherine McKay wrote: > > > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: a letter from Sheila Weller > To: "T Peckham" , "JMDL" > Received: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 7:26 PM > > > Jackson Browne was Joni's opening act when I saw her years ago (the first > time > I ever saw her) at Massey Hall in Toronto. That was in between the "Blue" > and > "For the Roses" albums, so probably around 1972? I didn't know much about > Joni's personal life back then. In fact, I never knew much about her > personal > life until joining this list (whenever that was!) I guess I just never > thought > about it much (that might have wrecked all the projecting I may have been > doing - heh heh.) I was surprised too, later, (much later!), when I > learned > they had been lovers. They can't have been together very long. > > Anyway, is it just me, or does anyone else feel a bit of a hate on for > people > who did Joni wrong? I knew there was something about Jackson Browne I > didn't > like, but I never could put my finger on it! (OK, that was kind of a joke, > but > I never got into him anyway.) > > > > ________________________________ > From: T Peckham > To: JMDL > Sent: Sun, April 18, 2010 5:46:48 PM > Subject: a letter from Sheila Weller > > Just realized I didn't respond to this. When I was first working on the > book, I too was surprised by the whole episode, but mainly because of the > "Car On A Hill"/Jackson Browne connection. Back then, anyone who read > Rolling Stone (or all the album credits) knew about Joni's relationships > with Graham Nash and JT, but Jackson? Not so much. All I remember was that > she played electric piano on his "Sing My Songs To Me" from *For Everyman*, > an album my friends and I assumed was all about Phyllis. (Pretty > presumptuous of us, eh?) ;-) > > Anyway, the older I get, the more I am reminded that it's best to keep an > open mind---sometimes it's the only thing I feel capable of changing > anymore. :-) T > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Tired of > spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2010 #114 > ***************************** > > ------- > Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:27:07 -0700 From: Leah Welborn Subject: Hissing Question As some of you may know, I'm getting to know Hissing right now. I have a question: Jungle Line's Rousseau is the painter, Henri, yes? For a moment I thought of Jean-Jacques Rousseau with his "noble savage", but then I did a bit of research, and it turns out he never used or advocated that term/idea! It's a "persistent historical error." (from Wiki) So far, Jungle Line is my favorite on the album. Really like Don't Interrupt the Sorrow. WONDERFUL to have people to discuss this with. xoxo Leah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:28:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller Well, that was an interesting read. Thank you for sharing. I, too, was one of the doubters especially since it seemed that the blame for Joni's suicide attempt was placed on her relationship with Jackson Browne itself. I'm sure it played a part but if someone's state of mind is fragile to begin with, a setback could spark something even more. Anyway, interesting that Joni's short lived relationship with Jackson Browne caused her so much pain. It shows that the heart is unpredictable when it comes to time and affairs. As for Jackson Browne himself, I have no kind words for him. Never have, never will. Oh well. - -Mon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:32:37 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller I thought it was great - very cool to have a whole (mini) book about a single album because it allows so much detail. In much the same way, there's a series of DVD's about the making of classic albums like Dark Side Of The Moon, Aja, Who's Next, etc that I also dig immensely. My only complaint about the book is that he uses the last chapter to shred much of her later work - I found that pretty superfluous. Bob NP: Starsailor, "Good Souls" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:46:07 -0700 From: Corey Blake Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller To try to balance this out a little bit, I feel it's necessary to provide this quote from the Santa Monica Police Department regarding the whole Jackson Browne/Darryl Hannah thing: Here is a statement made by Lt. John Miehle of the Santa Monica Police Department in November 1992:"The Santa Monica Police Department went to the house where Jackson Browne lives regarding a possible disturbance. We resolved the situation in about five minutes. There was never any assault. There are no charges pending and no prosecution sought by or intended by the District Attorney. It is this department's intention that no citizen, regardless of who she is, suffer any kind of abuse, whether it be domestic violence or any other kind of assault. But in this case, absolutely no assault occurred. Our investigators tell us nothing happened. Nobody has even alleged that Daryl Hannah was even touched. If they had, we'd be investigating. We're not hiding anything. The press is trying to make more out of this than there really is, and it's unfair, not just to Browne, but to us. We did our job, and repeat, no crime occurred here. This whole thing is ridiculous." http://home.comcast.net/~leslienoelani/TNI.html Whether anything ever happened or not, I don't know. Sometimes I lean toward probably not, sometimes I lean toward maybe yes. But I know that most artists are terribly flawed humans trying to do the best they can (just like me and everyone else I know), and that often part of the appeal of their art is their flaws and their struggles with them. I also feel that there comes a time where the art lives separate from the creator, and that enjoying it isn't an endorsement for their behavior. My only wish for the Joni and Jackson segment was that Sheila had tried to get some kind of response from Jackson Browne or a confidante from his camp. Obviously he's not the subject of the book, but dropping that kind of story is pretty huge,and it's only fair to try to get some semblance of both sides. - -Corey On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Mags wrote: > Leah, > that's what got me going vis a vis Jackson in the first place , when I > heard > he hit Darryl Hannah..it was very hard for me to listen to him and not > think > about that aforementioned beast within. Man's a coward who hits/acts > violently > toward women. > > I have that little Court and Spark book, and love it a lot, as it was my > first > introduc tion to Joni Mitchell...the album, not the book ;-)...anyway...I > continue to learn from this list and gain more and more as time goes on. > > keep writing, Leah, I know that everyone is having a lot of fun bouncing > ideas back and forth. > > Mags in tremendously gorgeously brilliant spring in Winnipeg, several weeks > early!!!! > > > > --- On Mon, 4/19/10, Leah Welborn wrote: > > > From: Leah Welborn > Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller > To: joni@smoe.org > Cc: joni-digest@smoe.org > Received: Monday, April 19, 2010, 1:02 PM > > > < people > who did Joni wrong? I knew there was something about Jackson Browne I > didn't > like, but I never could put my finger on it! (OK, that was kind of a joke, > but > I never got into him anyway.)>> > > > Mags and Catherine, yes! I'm so glad you two mentioned the feelings about > Jackson Browne: like Mags, I love Jackson's voice, but don't own any of his > work. That thing about him supposedly beating Daryl Hannah turned me off > him > when I was a teenager. And (also according to Weller), Joni insists that he > hit her, too. So, yea. > > Unfortunately, I have a bit of the same animosity toward James Taylor. > According to Weller's book, Joni still thought there was something between > them when he married Carly. A mutual friend had to call to tell her he was > married. > > > As far as the suicide attempt/ Car on a Hill goes... > you guys know I'm new to the list and to Joni, but I do know depression and > suicide quite well. It ain't one thing that does it. It's kind of like a > bathtub filled to the very brim. You can pour one glass, heck, one cup of > water, into the tub, and it's gonna overflow. You can blame that last cup > all you want, but if the tub hadn't already been full, the water would have > stayed put. And from what I understand, she characterizes the time right > around Blue as a very traumatic one for her. > > Maybe you guys know this cool little book about Court and Spark by Sean > Nelson? He has some cool interpretations of the songs. He proffers that the > narrator of Car on a Hill is not "joni" per se, but another more timid, > fragile woman (and when one is in emotional trauma, one's self often feels > fragmented)..anyway, I like the book a lot, and would love to hear what > other people think about it. > > xoxoxo > Leah > > > > > Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Mags > > Subject: Re: a letter from Sheila Weller > > > > Catherine, > > > > it must have been an amazing experience to see both Joni and Jackson in > > Massey Hall.(my favourite venue in Toronto fwiw). > > > > Ive had similar feelings about Jackson since learning about the heart > ache > > he > > caused her. Therein lies the rub. Ive had a few off list chats about this > > very > > thing..I love some of Jackson's work, dont own any, but do admit to > loving > > his > > voice. Very hard to separate the music from the beast, n'est-ce pas?? > > > > Mags > > > > > > > > - --- On Sun, 4/18/10, Catherine McKay wrote: > > > > > > From: Catherine McKay > > Subject: Re: a letter from Sheila Weller > > To: "T Peckham" , "JMDL" > > Received: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 7:26 PM > > > > > > Jackson Browne was Joni's opening act when I saw her years ago (the first > > time > > I ever saw her) at Massey Hall in Toronto. That was in between the > "Blue" > > and > > "For the Roses" albums, so probably around 1972? I didn't know much > about > > Joni's personal life back then. In fact, I never knew much about her > > personal > > life until joining this list (whenever that was!) I guess I just never > > thought > > about it much (that might have wrecked all the projecting I may have been > > doing - heh heh.) I was surprised too, later, (much later!), when I > > learned > > they had been lovers. They can't have been together very long. > > > > Anyway, is it just me, or does anyone else feel a bit of a hate on for > > people > > who did Joni wrong? I knew there was something about Jackson Browne I > > didn't > > like, but I never could put my finger on it! (OK, that was kind of a > joke, > > but > > I never got into him anyway.) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: T Peckham > > To: JMDL > > Sent: Sun, April 18, 2010 5:46:48 PM > > Subject: a letter from Sheila Weller > > > > Just realized I didn't respond to this. When I was first working on the > > book, I too was surprised by the whole episode, but mainly because of the > > "Car On A Hill"/Jackson Browne connection. Back then, anyone who read > > Rolling Stone (or all the album credits) knew about Joni's relationships > > with Graham Nash and JT, but Jackson? Not so much. All I remember was > that > > she played electric piano on his "Sing My Songs To Me" from *For > Everyman*, > > an album my friends and I assumed was all about Phyllis. (Pretty > > presumptuous of us, eh?) ;-) > > > > Anyway, the older I get, the more I am reminded that it's best to keep an > > open mind---sometimes it's the only thing I feel capable of changing > > anymore. :-) T > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > Tired of > > spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of JMDL Digest V2010 #114 > > ***************************** > > > > ------- > > Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org > > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > > ------- > Tired of > spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com Mailing List - http://coreyblake.googlepages.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 14:37:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Hissing Question For sure, for sure...now just imagine what it would be like to hear these albums and have NO ONE to talk to about them, no one else in your circle of friends who gets Joni...until about 25 years later! That's the way it was for me and for many of us before the internet and what a TRUE JOY to meet and talk to other people about all the things you'd been aching to talk about for all those years...especially in the case of Hissing...so many curious lyrics on that one. Keep those good vibrations happening... Bob NP: Tori, "In the Springtime of his Voodoo" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:02:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller Hi, Leah. I have feelings of animosity towards JT too, I must confess. What a relief to hear someone else say it first! Seems like he just used women for his own purposes. Maybe it was all the drugs he used. Even so, that's a crap excuse, IMO. What does it take to straighten up and fly right? I was not at all impressed with JB when I heard the Darryl Hannah story and later, the Joni one. It's very hard to sympathize with the "sensitive man" who abuses women. And then again, there's Joni's song "Not to blame," which is supposed to be about JB's wife who killed herself and goes on to talk about the whole issue of abused women. I haven't read the book about "Court and Spark" but it makes a lot of sense to me that Joni could be speaking from the point of view of a different person or another persona of herself, for that matter, in that one. We're all composite characters, really, so I think all of us can be bold one minute and fragile the next. As well, speaking purely for myself but I think it translates to others, I'm quite sure that any decent artist or writer chooses to write the things they do because the characters or events they write about resonate for them on a personal level. The best writers can become the characters they write about and so on. I think most of us have also been in the situation of waiting for someone to call or show up, especially in the early days of a relationship. And how disappointing and frustrating it is when s/he doesn't call, or doesn't show up when they say they will. It makes you go through sadness, anger, feelings of inadequacy, fragility and a whole gamut of feelings. Joni expresses all of that so well. ________________________________ From: Leah Welborn To: joni@smoe.org Cc: joni-digest@smoe.org Sent: Mon, April 19, 2010 1:02:06 PM Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller <> Mags and Catherine, yes! I'm so glad you two mentioned the feelings about Jackson Browne: like Mags, I love Jackson's voice, but don't own any of his work. That thing about him supposedly beating Daryl Hannah turned me off him when I was a teenager. And (also according to Weller), Joni insists that he hit her, too. So, yea. Unfortunately, I have a bit of the same animosity toward James Taylor. According to Weller's book, Joni still thought there was something between them when he married Carly. A mutual friend had to call to tell her he was married. As far as the suicide attempt/ Car on a Hill goes... you guys know I'm new to the list and to Joni, but I do know depression and suicide quite well. It ain't one thing that does it. It's kind of like a bathtub filled to the very brim. You can pour one glass, heck, one cup of water, into the tub, and it's gonna overflow. You can blame that last cup all you want, but if the tub hadn't already been full, the water would have stayed put. And from what I understand, she characterizes the time right around Blue as a very traumatic one for her. Maybe you guys know this cool little book about Court and Spark by Sean Nelson? He has some cool interpretations of the songs. He proffers that the narrator of Car on a Hill is not "joni" per se, but another more timid, fragile woman (and when one is in emotional trauma, one's self often feels fragmented)..anyway, I like the book a lot, and would love to hear what other people think about it. xoxoxo Leah Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:07:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Hissing Question It's true, and somewhat of a shock in a way, to be able to speak Joni-i-lese with out having to explain a darned thing!!! For me, whilst I discovered Joni in 74, I had only one Joni friend of spirit then, we went our separate ways, and have fortunately been reunited (thanks Mark in Sydney)...my other Joni friend was a guy named Chris who lived in Toronto. IN fact, he's the one who went with me to see Joni in 98 in Toronto...alas, I digress.... Chris would sing Joni covers, two of his favourites being Cherokee Louise (gorgeous rendition); other fav Case of You which he used to snag me up on 'stage' to join in whenever he had the chance. Brilliant songs, very hard to sing, which is why Ive just GOT to gush again about Robin and Dave and their band. Ive just listened to a bunch of samplings on their web site..Im such a geek .. I am laughing at myself because I didnt realize you could hear more than the three song names that appear on first sight. Does that make sense? Im laughing it all away :P sorry, couldnt help mesef. anyway, Dave and Robin, I havent been as excited about anything Joni Mitchell in ages..okay, Jenny's Arrangement is right up there too..but still. I am beside myself, like a kid on Christmas morning.....waiting and waiting..... ;---))))) Mags - --- On Mon, 4/19/10, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Hissing Question To: "Leah Welborn" Cc: "jonipeople" Received: Monday, April 19, 2010, 2:37 PM For sure, for sure...now just imagine what it would be like to hear these albums and have NO ONE to talk to about them, no one else in your circle of friends who gets Joni...until about 25 years later! That's the way it was for me and for many of us before the internet and what a TRUE JOY to meet and talk to other people about all the things you'd been aching to talk about for all those years...especially in the case of Hissing...so many curious lyrics on that one. Keep those good vibrations happening... Bob NP: Tori, "In the Springtime of his Voodoo" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:02:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller Hi, Leah. I have feelings of animosity towards JT too, I must confess. What a relief to hear someone else say it first! Seems like he just used women for his own purposes. Maybe it was all the drugs he used. Even so, that's a crap excuse, IMO. What does it take to straighten up and fly right? I was not at all impressed with JB when I heard the Darryl Hannah story and later, the Joni one. It's very hard to sympathize with the "sensitive man" who abuses women. And then again, there's Joni's song "Not to blame," which is supposed to be about JB's wife who killed herself and goes on to talk about the whole issue of abused women. I haven't read the book about "Court and Spark" but it makes a lot of sense to me that Joni could be speaking from the point of view of a different person or another persona of herself, for that matter, in that one. We're all composite characters, really, so I think all of us can be bold one minute and fragile the next. As well, speaking purely for myself but I think it translates to others, I'm quite sure that any decent artist or writer chooses to write the things they do because the characters or events they write about resonate for them on a personal level. The best writers can become the characters they write about and so on. I think most of us have also been in the situation of waiting for someone to call or show up, especially in the early days of a relationship. And how disappointing and frustrating it is when s/he doesn't call, or doesn't show up when they say they will. It makes you go through sadness, anger, feelings of inadequacy, fragility and a whole gamut of feelings. Joni expresses all of that so well. ________________________________ From: Leah Welborn To: joni@smoe.org Cc: joni-digest@smoe.org Sent: Mon, April 19, 2010 1:02:06 PM Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller <> Mags and Catherine, yes! I'm so glad you two mentioned the feelings about Jackson Browne: like Mags, I love Jackson's voice, but don't own any of his work. That thing about him supposedly beating Daryl Hannah turned me off him when I was a teenager. And (also according to Weller), Joni insists that he hit her, too. So, yea. Unfortunately, I have a bit of the same animosity toward James Taylor. According to Weller's book, Joni still thought there was something between them when he married Carly. A mutual friend had to call to tell her he was married. As far as the suicide attempt/ Car on a Hill goes... you guys know I'm new to the list and to Joni, but I do know depression and suicide quite well. It ain't one thing that does it. It's kind of like a bathtub filled to the very brim. You can pour one glass, heck, one cup of water, into the tub, and it's gonna overflow. You can blame that last cup all you want, but if the tub hadn't already been full, the water would have stayed put. And from what I understand, she characterizes the time right around Blue as a very traumatic one for her. Maybe you guys know this cool little book about Court and Spark by Sean Nelson? He has some cool interpretations of the songs. He proffers that the narrator of Car on a Hill is not "joni" per se, but another more timid, fragile woman (and when one is in emotional trauma, one's self often feels fragmented)..anyway, I like the book a lot, and would love to hear what other people think about it. xoxoxo Leah Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 22:37:25 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Hissing Question > On 19 April 2010 20:07, Mags wrote: > It's true, and somewhat of a shock in a way, to be able to speak Joni-i-lese > with out having to explain a darned thing!!! > Bob wrote: > For sure, for sure...now just imagine what it would be like to hear these > albums and have NO ONE to talk to about them, no one else in your circle > of friends who gets Joni...until about 25 years later! I just have to outdo both Bobs and Mags in time and space, surprise, surprise :~) Leah, I didn't meet anyone till joining this list around 10 years ago, so, for me, it was over 30 years thinking I was the only person in the world to like Joni Mitchell's music. Then the www opened up and I found loads of other people as mad or madder than me on her music. It's been such a joy. The odd blip for sure, but that's life. JMDL - full of interesting, witty, funny, caring and insighful people, who seem committed to sorting things out and trying to understand when the going gets tough. And a huge number of amazing musicians. Grab it all while you can! Anita ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:58:14 -0400 From: Stephen_Epstein@hugoboss.com Subject: Re: Hissing Question Bob, I still find that far too many contemporaries of mine don't get the Joni thing. Often people think I'm obsessed! so as a result, I now tend to keep most of my comments and thoughts to myself. But, as you say, what a find this list is with so many like-minded soulsQ! best Stephen in Toronto NP: Alex Taylor "With Friends and Neighbours" For sure, for sure...now just imagine what it would be like to hear these albums and have NO ONE to talk to about them, no one else in your circle of friends who gets Joni...until about 25 years later! That's the way it was for me and for many of us before the internet and what a TRUE JOY to meet and talk to other people about all the things you'd been aching to talk about for all those years...especially in the case of Hissing...so many curious lyrics on that one. Keep those good vibrations happening... Bob NP: Tori, "In the Springtime of his Voodoo" - ------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------ This e-mail (and/or attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. Use or disclosure of it by anyone other than a designated addressee is unauthorized. If you are not an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail from the computer on which you received it. We thank you for notifying us immediately. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:36:04 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Leah Welborn" Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:02 AM To: Cc: Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller > Maybe you guys know this cool little book about Court and Spark by Sean > Nelson? He has some cool interpretations of the songs. He proffers that > the > narrator of Car on a Hill is not "joni" per se, but another more timid, > fragile woman (and when one is in emotional trauma, one's self often feels > fragmented)..anyway, I like the book a lot, and would love to hear what > other people think about it. > > xoxoxo > Leah Hi Leah. For many years I never thought about the line 'He said he'd be over 3 hours ago'. Now it strikes me that 3 hours is a long, long, long time (one 'long' for each of the 3 hours) to wait for somebody. The word 'doormat' comes to mind. Maybe I never thought of it because I had that tendency myself (to be a doormat, that is) when I was younger. But I never thought of Joni as a 'doormat' type. Again, as Catherine and others have pointed out, I had and still have my own idea of what Joni's character was/is. I always thought of her as sensitive but ultimately strong, a survivor. She wouldn't give in to 'she'll never walk again' when she had polio as a kid. She just packed up and moved out when she decided to leave Chuck. She came through her 'Blue' period and emerged, springing from the boulders like a mama lion (although 'Little Green' was a blow that would take finding her daughter again to finally begin some healing process). I sort of remember hearing that she had been linked with Jackson Browne. Personally, I was never a fan of his to begin with (although I did like his looks back in the good ol' 70s) and had never thought of him as anything but a blip on Joni's radar. When the whole business with Darryl Hannah came to light, the only thing that occurred to me was the line from 'Lucky Girl' that goes 'Cheaters, woman beaters and Huck Finn shucksters hoppin' parking meters'. I kind of went hmm. I wonder who 'woman beaters' was referring to? Then along came 'Not to Blame' and the s**t kind of hit the fan between Joni & Jackson, if I remember right. He made some very unflattering remarks about her to the press. She denied that the song was about anybody in particular. I guess I can admit the possibility of a suicide attempt and your bathtub analogy makes sense. But I can be very stubborn about things and until I hear (or read) it from Joni herself, I still don't quite buy into it. (As if that is ever likely to happen.) If it did happen, the bathtub thing is far more plausible to me as the cause than just Jackson Browne. Perhaps I am deluded. Or just deranged. But reading about the 'vetting' process gives me a more positive view of 'Girls Like Us' and its author. I have it but have yet to read it. Even bought it new which I almost never do because I think the price of paperback books is outrageous and I buy almost all used books. The excerpts I did read in reviews and articles about the book were fascinating. But the suicide attempt business put me off and made me less eager to read it. Now I will move it up my reading list. Also, I'm a long time Carly Simon and Carole King fan. So that is more motivation to read it. Thank you for posting the letter from Sheila Weller. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #107 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe