From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #106 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, April 19 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 106 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Dog Eat Dog [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Joni For Lovers -- list challenge [Laura Stanley ] Re: HoSL (Look! I can abbreviate!) [Mags ] Re: Joni For Lovers -- list challenge [Mags ] Rolling Thunder in The Concert Vault [Paul Castle ] Re: HoSL (Look! I can abbreviate!) [Leah Welborn ] Re:Joni Recommendations ["Jill Haas" ] Fw: Re:Joni Recommendations ["Jill Haas" ] Safaris to the Heart ["Jill Haas" ] Re: a letter from Sheila Weller [Catherine McKay ] Re: a letter from Sheila Weller [Mags ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 19:17:11 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Dog Eat Dog Right on, Cassy and Rian. One amazing thing about Joni is that she has been creating for so long now that people have jumped in at various times and become admirers of her work. I love all of Joni's work throughout her career but, I really jumped in during the 1980s and Dog Eat Dog was at the height of my time for appreciating music. It lead me to discover her other work but, Joni never compromises. She took an interest in the sounds of the mid-80s and put herself into it. Anyone who has heard her acoustic versions of DED and The Three Great Stimulants will hear that the lyrics are Joni through and though. It's unfortunate that this album gets overlooked because she dared to try something new with the music. That the music somehow erases the sentiment and creativity in the songs. MHO Mark in Sydney NP Part Time Love - Elton John ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 05:40:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Joni For Lovers -- list challenge Mark wrote: Welcome back, Rian! 'Sweet Bird' is one of my favorites, too. Let's see. Happy Joni Mitchell songs about new found love. Michael From Mountains Chelsea Morning All I Want My Old Man In France They Kiss on Main Street Talk to Me Jericho Solid Love Underneath the Streetlight Lucky Girl The Crazy Cries of Love Night Ride Home Yvette in English Hi Mark and Rian! Ditto the welcome back and Sweet Bird... YES!!! How about "Help Me" to add to the list. It definitely is not sad. It is real about new found love. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 14:59:45 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Joni For Lovers -- list challenge The Joni song that I a really like about love, and I think may be new-ish love, is Face Lift. The last verse always moves me deeply. Bless us! Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:15:41 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Joni For Lovers -- list challenge - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Laura Stanley" Laura wrote: > Hi Mark and Rian! > > Ditto the welcome back and Sweet Bird... YES!!! > > How about "Help Me" to add to the list. It definitely is not sad. It is > real about new found love. > Hi Laura, I thought about "Help Me" but hesitated. She seems to be talking about love almost like it's an illness in that song. It sounds happy, but she's very ambivalent about it: "When I get that crazy feeling I'm in trouble again. I'm in trouble 'cause you're a rambler and a gambler and a sweet ladies' man", "It's got me hoping for the future and worrying about the past. 'Cause I've seen some hard, hot blazes come down to smoke and ash" "Are you gonna let me go there by myself? That's such a lonely thing to do. Both of us flirting around, flirting and flirting. Hurting too." She feels crazed, she's in trouble, she's worried, she's hurting. The bridge has the only purely happy lyrics in the song about sitting there talking, lying there not talking and dancing with a lady with a hole in her stocking. But she's still uncertain, questioning her lover. "Didn't it feel good?" And of course there's the lines repeated at the end of each verse that sum up so much of Joni's ambivalence about love and commitment "We love our lovin'. But not like we love our freedom". To be fair, "All I Want" does have a pinch of negativity in the lines 'Do you see, do you see, do you see how you're hurting me baby. So I hurt you too. Then we both get so blue". But on the whole, I think 'All I Want" is a happy, positive look at new love. Just my opinion, fwiw. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:31:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: HoSL (Look! I can abbreviate!) Leah, congratulations on listening to Hissing for the first time. I love that album very much, was late in hearing it as well. Ive been listening to it a lot lately, because that's what happens on this wonderful list, we cheer each other on, and open up our senses, renewing what we love so much in the realm of music. Let us know your thoughts, Mags, in Winnipeg - --- On Sat, 4/17/10, Rian Afriadi wrote: From: Rian Afriadi Subject: Re: HoSL (Look! I can abbreviate!) To: "Leah Welborn" , "jonipeople" Received: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 1:51 PM Leah wrote : I'm listening to Hissing of Summer Lawns for the very first time right now. >>> Well, you made me listen to HoSL again! (and you made me write on this list again -- first time since almost a year ago) My first time with HoSL was 2007, that's the year I joined this list. So, what's your current favorite? And what do you think? Rian out from lurking Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:32:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Joni For Lovers -- list challenge me too, I adore that song xo Mags - --- On Sat, 4/17/10, Jimmy Stewart wrote: From: Jimmy Stewart Subject: Re: Joni For Lovers -- list challenge To: "Rian Afriadi" Cc: "jonipeople" Received: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 3:37 PM Two Grey Rooms is one. My favorite too! Jimmy ....gesendet von meinem iPhone On Apr 17, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Rian Afriadi wrote: > OK. > Everybody loves to make list. > > But usually, it's "my favorite list" or "my recommendation list". > > Let's make a list that cover one subject. > Just like "The Beginning of Survival" CD that covers... well, the beginning of survival. > > Let's make a list that cover this topic : > Love. New found love. > 10 songs. > I think it's quite challenging. Joni made many songs about love, but they're actually sad. > > > > Rian Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 18:59:51 +0100 From: Paul Castle Subject: Rolling Thunder in The Concert Vault Spent some time yesterday afternoon buried in the Concert Vault - http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/concerts/ (if you're new to this site, it's free to listen online but you have to register first). Found a (November 7, 1978) Dr John concert at The Bottom Line in New York - in which he sings a swampy little version of 'Happy Birthday Dear Joni' - she was in the audience - http://bit.ly/9O23CX Love this show - great band with David Sanborn on alto, Hugh McCracken on guitar and Steve Gadd on drums - Wham bam 'Mama Roux' and never get bored of 'Right Place, Wrong Time', 'Iko Iko' etc - just not possible to sit still!! I then moved on to two 1975 Rolling Thunder Revue shows - the first in Montreal (Dec 4) http://bit.ly/bIJiO8 and the second 4 days later in New York (Dec 8) - http://bit.ly/af1GY7. In Montreal Joni's set begins with 'Woman Of Heart And Mind' - (Oh Lord - her voice is just SO good!) followed by a guitar-accompanied version of 'Shadows & Light' (I've never heard this sung with a guitar before - again, love her vocal riffing and tone!!). She follows this with 'Coyote' which she says she was still writing at the time. In the introduction she says that the song was still unraveling and she'd just written the fourth verse the previous night. On the second show in New York she introduces it as "a brand new song that's just kept growing along the bus routes of this tour". Always love hearing early versions of Joni's songs before the lyric becomes written in stone by the final recording - At the Montreal show she sings (in the 4th verse) "Coyote's in the restaurant" (but four nights later in the Madison Square Gardens show he was where he ended up - "in the coffee shop"). In the Montreal show she has him "Too far from the Bay of Fundy From salt air and 50 mile tides" but by New York he'd become "Too far from the Bay of Fundy Too Far from Appaloosas and eagles and tides" In Montreal she sings, "Either he's going to have to stand and fight Or take off out of here From Louie on the balcony And the ladies in the show And from me, Coyote The flame you typed up in an Eskimo" (sounds like - ?) which, by the NY show, became, "Either he's going to have to stand and fight Or take off out of here I tried to run away myself Run away and do some work on my ego And this flame in this Eskimo" Wonder when "do some work on" became "wrestle with". very best to all PaulC NP JT's 'You Can Close Your Eyes' by William Fitzsimmons ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 20:26:35 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: HoSL (Look! I can abbreviate!) Hi Leah I was completely bewildered by THOSL when I first heard it. What was Joni doing, I wondered? But I was interested in it, but it was beyond me at the time. I had loved the previous albums and it seemd so radical. There was no such genre as 'world music' back then. The Burundi Drummers - well, what or who were they? It was exciting but weird. It was just such an innovative album of that era. I seem to recall that Prince has described it as the only album of anyone that he can listen to all the way through and Peter Gabriel cited it as a huge influence on him. It's hard for me to describe how ground breaking it was. Loads of people now seem to really heap praise on it, but it was critically derided at the time. Regards Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:30:07 -0700 From: Leah Welborn Subject: Re: HoSL (Look! I can abbreviate!) Anita, I love this. I had never heard Prince's wisdom on Joni! - -Leah On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Anita G wrote: > Hi Leah > I was completely bewildered by THOSL when I first heard it. What was > Joni doing, I wondered? But I was interested in it, but it was beyond > me at the time. I had loved the previous albums and it seemd so > radical. There was no such genre as 'world music' back then. The > Burundi Drummers - well, what or who were they? It was exciting but > weird. > > It was just such an innovative album of that era. I seem to recall > that Prince has described it as the only album of anyone that he can > listen to all the way through and Peter Gabriel cited it as a huge > influence on him. It's hard for me to describe how ground breaking it > was. Loads of people now seem to really heap praise on it, but it was > critically derided at the time. > Regards > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:46:48 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: a letter from Sheila Weller Just realized I didn't respond to this. When I was first working on the book, I too was surprised by the whole episode, but mainly because of the "Car On A Hill"/Jackson Browne connection. Back then, anyone who read Rolling Stone (or all the album credits) knew about Joni's relationships with Graham Nash and JT, but Jackson? Not so much. All I remember was that she played electric piano on his "Sing My Songs To Me" from *For Everyman*, an album my friends and I assumed was all about Phyllis. (Pretty presumptuous of us, eh?) ;-) Anyway, the older I get, the more I am reminded that it's best to keep an open mind---sometimes it's the only thing I feel capable of changing anymore. :-) T On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > Uncomfortable though it may be, it's an important discussion. I was one of > the doubters, but, after reading Sheila's email, it makes much more sense to > me now. > > The fact that it somehow didn't sound right to me is really presumptuous of > me in any case. Just because my picture of Joni's world couldn't > incorporate this, doesn't mean it didn't happen - and my picture of Joni's > world is obviously flawed in any case, since I knew very little about her > life and was therefore most likely simply projecting my own feelings onto > it. I will confess that I still can't shake that Wile E. Coyote image out > of my head though. Sorry about that. > > Sheila's explanation makes a whole lot of sense and of course there are > reasons why you wouldn't or couldn't name sources, but she has a number of > them and they seem like credible ones at that. I am impressed once again by > Joni's keeping quiet in public about this and at the fact that her near and > dear friends protect her. There are so many cases these days of people > selling information that they have (or claim to have) about public figures > just to make a quick buck that it's gratifying to know that there are still > people out there with a sense of honour. > > Thanks, Terra, for sharing that with us. > > ------------------------------ > > - -- Curiosity is my religion. David Ryan Adams ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 14:49:10 -0700 From: "Jill Haas" Subject: Re:Joni Recommendations Some I love, maybe a little off the common list. Late but... Sweet Bird /Shadows and Light Furry Sings the Blues /Mingus Blue (of course) Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwigs Tune) Down to you Edith and the Kingpin/ Shadows and litht Shades of Scarlet Conquering Shadows and Light/ Shadows and Light Coyote/Shadows and Light/ The Band-Last Waltz Goodbye Porkpie Hat/ Shadows and Light Rainy Night Hourse/ Miles of Aisles Real Good for Free/ Miles of Aisles Cold Blue and Sweet Fire/ Miles Aisles Tin Angel The Gallery That Song About the Midway Amelia Refuge of the Roads Chinese Cafe Let the Wind Carry Me For the Roses River Little Green A Case of You The Last Time I Saw Richard Cool Water The Beat of Black Wings Paprika Plains Otis and Marlena Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Turbulent Indigo Magdelena Laundries Slouching Toward Bethlehem Love Job's Sad Song Cherokee Louise Two Grey rooms Night Ride Home Both Sides Now/ Both Sides Now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 14:52:29 -0700 From: "Jill Haas" Subject: Fw: Re:Joni Recommendations Dang, I forgot! probabley many more... Shine If I had a Heart - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jill Haas To: joni@smoe.org ; RichKochman@yahoo.com Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 2:49 PM Subject: Re:Joni Recommendations Some I love, maybe a little off the common list. Late but... Sweet Bird /Shadows and Light Furry Sings the Blues /Mingus Blue (of course) Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwigs Tune) Down to you Edith and the Kingpin/ Shadows and litht Shades of Scarlet Conquering Shadows and Light/ Shadows and Light Coyote/Shadows and Light/ The Band-Last Waltz Goodbye Porkpie Hat/ Shadows and Light Rainy Night Hourse/ Miles of Aisles Real Good for Free/ Miles of Aisles Cold Blue and Sweet Fire/ Miles Aisles Tin Angel The Gallery That Song About the Midway Amelia Refuge of the Roads Chinese Cafe Let the Wind Carry Me For the Roses River Little Green A Case of You The Last Time I Saw Richard Cool Water The Beat of Black Wings Paprika Plains Otis and Marlena Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Turbulent Indigo Magdelena Laundries Slouching Toward Bethlehem Love Job's Sad Song Cherokee Louise Two Grey rooms Night Ride Home Both Sides Now/ Both Sides Now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:30:58 -0700 From: "Jill Haas" Subject: Safaris to the Heart Hey JoniListas, Dave and Robin, Just wanted to add my compliments on this beatiful piece of work. My roommate and best friend, Jeff Holtzman is a "Jazz only" fan and not a fan of Joni, but I'm catching him playing "Safaris" constantly. To quote his statements while driving in the car, he said "These are amazing arrangements," and later, "Wow. These are incredible musicians." I have tried for years to get him to listen to Joni and convince him that she is "jazz worthy." He has, at times, reluctantly agreed, but this is the first unsolicedes statements of admiration about Joni's work I've heard from him. "Safaris from the Heart." Thanks Robin, Dave and all of the wonderful musicians, fans, JMDL support and the effort to bring this wonderful CD together and do something I have worked 30 years to do--make Jeff like Joni. I'm both a jazz fan and a Joni fan, so the "Safaris" Cd is getting worn out. Good thing I have two of them. Dave and Robin - please let me and the rest of JMDL know all of the places we can help get the word out about "Safaris." A list of all of the places we can write reviews? Amazon? Where else. Please don't hold back. There are many of us who would like to help make this a great success. Best, Jill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:26:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: a letter from Sheila Weller Jackson Browne was Joni's opening act when I saw her years ago (the first time I ever saw her) at Massey Hall in Toronto. That was in between the "Blue" and "For the Roses" albums, so probably around 1972? I didn't know much about Joni's personal life back then. In fact, I never knew much about her personal life until joining this list (whenever that was!) I guess I just never thought about it much (that might have wrecked all the projecting I may have been doing - heh heh.) I was surprised too, later, (much later!), when I learned they had been lovers. They can't have been together very long. Anyway, is it just me, or does anyone else feel a bit of a hate on for people who did Joni wrong? I knew there was something about Jackson Browne I didn't like, but I never could put my finger on it! (OK, that was kind of a joke, but I never got into him anyway.) ________________________________ From: T Peckham To: JMDL Sent: Sun, April 18, 2010 5:46:48 PM Subject: a letter from Sheila Weller Just realized I didn't respond to this. When I was first working on the book, I too was surprised by the whole episode, but mainly because of the "Car On A Hill"/Jackson Browne connection. Back then, anyone who read Rolling Stone (or all the album credits) knew about Joni's relationships with Graham Nash and JT, but Jackson? Not so much. All I remember was that she played electric piano on his "Sing My Songs To Me" from *For Everyman*, an album my friends and I assumed was all about Phyllis. (Pretty presumptuous of us, eh?) ;-) Anyway, the older I get, the more I am reminded that it's best to keep an open mind---sometimes it's the only thing I feel capable of changing anymore. :-) T Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: a letter from Sheila Weller Catherine, it must have been an amazing experience to see both Joni and Jackson in Massey Hall.(my favourite venue in Toronto fwiw). Ive had similar feelings about Jackson since learning about the heart ache he caused her. Therein lies the rub. Ive had a few off list chats about this very thing..I love some of Jackson's work, dont own any, but do admit to loving his voice. Very hard to separate the music from the beast, n'est-ce pas?? Mags - --- On Sun, 4/18/10, Catherine McKay wrote: From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: a letter from Sheila Weller To: "T Peckham" , "JMDL" Received: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 7:26 PM Jackson Browne was Joni's opening act when I saw her years ago (the first time I ever saw her) at Massey Hall in Toronto. That was in between the "Blue" and "For the Roses" albums, so probably around 1972? I didn't know much about Joni's personal life back then. In fact, I never knew much about her personal life until joining this list (whenever that was!) I guess I just never thought about it much (that might have wrecked all the projecting I may have been doing - heh heh.) I was surprised too, later, (much later!), when I learned they had been lovers. They can't have been together very long. Anyway, is it just me, or does anyone else feel a bit of a hate on for people who did Joni wrong? I knew there was something about Jackson Browne I didn't like, but I never could put my finger on it! (OK, that was kind of a joke, but I never got into him anyway.) ________________________________ From: T Peckham To: JMDL Sent: Sun, April 18, 2010 5:46:48 PM Subject: a letter from Sheila Weller Just realized I didn't respond to this. When I was first working on the book, I too was surprised by the whole episode, but mainly because of the "Car On A Hill"/Jackson Browne connection. Back then, anyone who read Rolling Stone (or all the album credits) knew about Joni's relationships with Graham Nash and JT, but Jackson? Not so much. All I remember was that she played electric piano on his "Sing My Songs To Me" from *For Everyman*, an album my friends and I assumed was all about Phyllis. (Pretty presumptuous of us, eh?) ;-) Anyway, the older I get, the more I am reminded that it's best to keep an open mind---sometimes it's the only thing I feel capable of changing anymore. :-) T Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #106 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe