From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #99 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, April 12 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 099 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" [Bob Muller ] Re: Safaris to the Heart [Bob Muller ] Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" [Dave Blackburn ] "River" and x-factor Denmark's version of American Idol [B Lux ] Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" [Anita G ] Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" [johnsonjs100@comcast.net] rickie & joni [Gina Del Piero ] New article: Mama Cass Finds First TV Special Hard Work [TheStaff@JoniMit] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:16:32 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" I don't know if Joni was referring to a place or not but, she does have a pretty good grip on the English language. The word, "near" usually refers to distance, whereas, "nearly" often refers to close to being. I think it would be more grammatically correct to say, "it's almost folly" or "it's nearly folly". To say, "it's near Folly" does seem like she is talking about a place. Barangrill is like no other Joni song. She has Pulled out unusual words for the title before such as Hejira but this is the only made up word I have seen her use. Why did she not simply call the song, Bar and Grill? Is this a heads up for plays on words within the song? I found the previous discussion on possible product names within the lyrics fascinating since, none those products have ever existed in my country. Humble and Pure for example. This is the only place I can learn about these things. I wondered for many years what a Javix bottle is. I think the jury is still out on Folly. Humble and Pure too for that matter. Mark in Sydney NP Night Fever - Bee Gees (the boys from Wollongong) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 12:07:19 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" All the possibilites of interpretation and word play makes all these discussions about Joni fascinating. So much works on so many levels and it's so great to hear all the ideas and takes on just one line. Mia's reference to the Erasmus 'In Praise of Folly' strikes me as most timely. I didn't understanf Exxon blue for a long time and I have no idea what a Javix bottle is. JMDL - what a place for multicultural learning. Anita I found the previous discussion > on possible product names within the lyrics fascinating since, none those > products have ever existed in my country. Humble and Pure for example. This > is the only place I can learn about these things. I wondered for many years > what a Javix bottle is. > > I think the jury is still out on Folly. Humble and Pure too for that matter. > > Mark in Sydney > > NP Night Fever - Bee Gees (the boys from Wollongong) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:38:48 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" Anita, I find it so bizarre that several countries speak the same language yet the adaptations are so diverse. I guess, when commercialism takes over and product names begin to replace names, it becomes more divergent. You might pop out for a Whimpy burger after you finished Hoovering and pick up something from the off licence to wash it down with. Whereas, I'd prefer to get some roast chook and then something from the bottle shop. Product placement in everyday language is not so common here as it is in the UK and North America. We vacuum, not Hoover. We photocopy, not Xerox. Was there a discussion about "Exxon blue"? If so, I missed it. I know what Exxon is. They were marketed in Australia as Esso, I believe. Is Exxon blue a state of depression over petrochemical companies? Mark in Sydney NP Aquarius - Ren Woods/cast On 11/04/2010, at 9:07 PM, Anita G wrote: > All the possibilites of interpretation and word play makes all these > discussions about Joni fascinating. So much works on so many levels > and it's so great to hear all the ideas and takes on just one line. > Mia's reference to the Erasmus 'In Praise of Folly' strikes me as most > timely. > > I didn't understanf Exxon blue for a long time and I have no idea what > a Javix bottle is. JMDL - what a place for multicultural learning. > Anita > > I found the previous discussion >> on possible product names within the lyrics fascinating since, none >> those >> products have ever existed in my country. Humble and Pure for >> example. This >> is the only place I can learn about these things. I wondered for >> many years >> what a Javix bottle is. >> >> I think the jury is still out on Folly. Humble and Pure too for >> that matter. >> >> Mark in Sydney >> >> NP Night Fever - Bee Gees (the boys from Wollongong) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:36:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" Dear Anita, a Javex bottle is in reference to a brand of bleach that is sold here in Canada. You'd say Javex, rather than bleach, as it was that common. With labels stripped off, the bottles were often tied together and used as buoys on the water. Hope that helps. I love the little differences in language. One day, I was telling Lucy that I was going to wear a jumper as I was really cold, and she said, oh? You mean one of those sleeveless dresses, not realising that I knew what a jumper is. We both had a good laugh. Laughter is our language. I love the chasing after meaning that is going on here...figuring out Folly and Humble and Pure are on my to do list today love, Mags - --- On Sun, 4/11/10, Anita G wrote: From: Anita G Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" To: "Mark-Leon Thorne" Cc: joni@smoe.org Received: Sunday, April 11, 2010, 7:07 AM All the possibilites of interpretation and word play makes all these discussions about Joni fascinating. So much works on so many levels and it's so great to hear all the ideas and takes on just one line. Mia's reference to the Erasmus 'In Praise of Folly' strikes me as most timely. I didn't understanf Exxon blue for a long time and I have no idea what a Javix bottle is. JMDL - what a place for multicultural learning. Anita I found the previous discussion > on possible product names within the lyrics fascinating since, none those > products have ever existed in my country. Humble and Pure for example. This > is the only place I can learn about these things. I wondered for many years > what a Javix bottle is. > > I think the jury is still out on Folly. Humble and Pure too for that matter. > > Mark in Sydney > > NP Night Fever - Bee Gees (the boys from Wollongong) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:51:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" I for one am grateful she did not. After all, google "bar and grill" and you're going to get a bajillion hits of all varieties. Google "barangrill" and every hit you get is Joni-related. A dream come true for those of us who search for Joni covers. Thankfully, most of Joni's song titles are pretty unique, which makes my life a heck of a lot easier. Bob NP: Robin & The Mutts, "Blue" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:45:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Safaris to the Heart Exactly, and I'm eternally grateful for what you have given us - every track's a treasure. Didn't mean to sound like I was biting the hand that feeds....I'm the first to admit that I'm a greedy bastard though - ha. Bob NP: The Mutts, "Judgement" (what a great track to start the day, along with a nice cup of coffee...ahhhh!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:56:24 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" Now, at last, the list is talking about the SONGS again, instead of purported suicide attempts and njc matters. Yay! I've been thinking more about this "you're hoping it's near Folly" line and I'm strongly believing it is an imaginary place. The syntax really supports this. If she simply meant "you're hoping it's just foolish" she would have said it that way-("Just when I think he's foolish and childish, and I want him to be manly") The word "Folly" definitely has a Shakespearean tone to me, and "heading towards folly", as Americanized as the term "heading towards" is, feels like a poetic image, a place where the foolish go. And then why would one hope to go there? She made a clever aphorism from two product names (which was a revelation to me when it was discussed, like the "crown and anchor" discussion) and I think she is continuing the wordplay here. Now finding it on a map is another story. I think it's more like a fictional location, like the title. Dave On Apr 11, 2010, at 2:16 AM, Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > I don't know if Joni was referring to a place or not but, she does > have a pretty good grip on the English language. The word, "near" > usually refers to distance, whereas, "nearly" often refers to close > to being. I think it would be more grammatically correct to say, > "it's almost folly" or "it's nearly folly". To say, "it's near > Folly" does seem like she is talking about a place. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:32:56 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: You'e Hoping it's near folly" I thought Humble and Pure were settled matters, linked as they are to the guy at the gas pumps: http://www.tamu.edu/upress/BOOKS/1996/malavis.htm > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > Mark-Leon Thorne > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 5:17 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" > > I don't know if Joni was referring to a place or not but, she does > have a pretty good grip on the English language. The word, "near" > usually refers to distance, whereas, "nearly" often refers to close to > being. I think it would be more grammatically correct to say, "it's > almost folly" or "it's nearly folly". To say, "it's near Folly" does > seem like she is talking about a place. > > Barangrill is like no other Joni song. She has Pulled out unusual > words for the title before such as Hejira but this is the only made up > word I have seen her use. Why did she not simply call the song, Bar > and Grill? Is this a heads up for plays on words within the song? I > found the previous discussion on possible product names within the > lyrics fascinating since, none those products have ever existed in my > country. Humble and Pure for example. This is the only place I can > learn about these things. I wondered for many years what a Javix > bottle is. > > I think the jury is still out on Folly. Humble and Pure too for that > matter. > > Mark in Sydney > > NP Night Fever - Bee Gees (the boys from Wollongong) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:53:51 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: You'e Hoping it's near folly" Credit where credit is due. It appears that Lori Fye was the person to provide info about Humble and Pure Oil Companies in 2003. > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Flynn [mailto:rflynn@frontiernet.net] > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 11:33 AM > To: 'Mark-Leon Thorne'; 'joni@smoe.org' > Subject: RE: You'e Hoping it's near folly" > > I thought Humble and Pure were settled matters, linked as they are to > the guy at the gas pumps: > http://www.tamu.edu/upress/BOOKS/1996/malavis.htm > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > > Mark-Leon Thorne > > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 5:17 AM > > To: joni@smoe.org > > Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" > > > > I don't know if Joni was referring to a place or not but, she does > > have a pretty good grip on the English language. The word, "near" > > usually refers to distance, whereas, "nearly" often refers to close > to > > being. I think it would be more grammatically correct to say, "it's > > almost folly" or "it's nearly folly". To say, "it's near Folly" does > > seem like she is talking about a place. > > > > Barangrill is like no other Joni song. She has Pulled out unusual > > words for the title before such as Hejira but this is the only made > up > > word I have seen her use. Why did she not simply call the song, Bar > > and Grill? Is this a heads up for plays on words within the song? I > > found the previous discussion on possible product names within the > > lyrics fascinating since, none those products have ever existed in my > > country. Humble and Pure for example. This is the only place I can > > learn about these things. I wondered for many years what a Javix > > bottle is. > > > > I think the jury is still out on Folly. Humble and Pure too for that > > matter. > > > > Mark in Sydney > > > > NP Night Fever - Bee Gees (the boys from Wollongong) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 08:59:36 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" I don't remember reading this before. But isn't 'Pure Oil (the producer) and Humble Oil (the buyer and pipeline owner)' saying that Pure makes Humble? I've always read it more as 'Humility makes Purity', especially being followed by 'Some say it's in service', which I always thought referred to the waitresses. The guy at the gas pumps hasn't come into it yet. The next line after 'You just have to laugh 'cause it's all so crazy/Ah her mind's on her boyfriend and eggs over easy,' is talking about one of the waitresses. But with Joni, who knows? This song is kind of unique in her catalogue. The only one I can compare it to is 'Electricity'. I've always loved the metaphor and word play in that one. And for years I didn't know what a 'copper proud-headed Queen Lizzie' referred to. Even after I moved to Seattle and began to see Canadian coinage here and there, I still had never heard of the practice of putting a penny in an empty socket in a fuse box. Mark in Seattle also loving the discussion about Joni's songs - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Flynn" Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 8:32 AM To: "'Mark-Leon Thorne'" ; Subject: RE: You'e Hoping it's near folly" > I thought Humble and Pure were settled matters, linked as they are to the > guy at the gas pumps: > http://www.tamu.edu/upress/BOOKS/1996/malavis.htm > >> I think the jury is still out on Folly. Humble and Pure too for that >> matter. >> >> Mark in Sydney >> >> NP Night Fever - Bee Gees (the boys from Wollongong) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:12:34 +0200 From: B Lux Subject: "River" and x-factor Denmark's version of American Idol Wow Laura, thanks for this! I actually think he is good! I hardly ever watch X-factor and didn't know who won it here in Denmark this year. Man if I had known that this guy had chosen River, then I'd have wathced and voted for him! I did watch it a bit last year, but the trauma when this little boy did not win was too great for me (OK you don't have to watch, but he IS cute :-) ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76e7-LIKuCU&feature=related. Ah, thanks again! Bene Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 07:33:25 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: "River" and x-factor Denmark's version of American Idol Check out this version of River by Thomas Ring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGBYNzcWFm0 A schoolteacher in Copenhagen, he eventually won X-factor 2010. Laura - -- *** bnw ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 12:46:38 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: You'e Hoping it's near folly" Humble folly pure Previous discussions at http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2002.n272 http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni/v2006.n280 http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni/v2003.n098 And you know there may be more. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > Richard Flynn > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 11:54 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: You'e Hoping it's near folly" > > Credit where credit is due. It appears that Lori Fye was the person to > provide info about Humble and Pure Oil Companies in 2003. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Richard Flynn [mailto:rflynn@frontiernet.net] > > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 11:33 AM > > To: 'Mark-Leon Thorne'; 'joni@smoe.org' > > Subject: RE: You'e Hoping it's near folly" > > > > I thought Humble and Pure were settled matters, linked as they are to > > the guy at the gas pumps: > > http://www.tamu.edu/upress/BOOKS/1996/malavis.htm > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > > > Mark-Leon Thorne > > > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 5:17 AM > > > To: joni@smoe.org > > > Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" > > > > > > I don't know if Joni was referring to a place or not but, she does > > > have a pretty good grip on the English language. The word, "near" > > > usually refers to distance, whereas, "nearly" often refers to close > > to > > > being. I think it would be more grammatically correct to say, "it's > > > almost folly" or "it's nearly folly". To say, "it's near Folly" > does > > > seem like she is talking about a place. > > > > > > Barangrill is like no other Joni song. She has Pulled out unusual > > > words for the title before such as Hejira but this is the only made > > up > > > word I have seen her use. Why did she not simply call the song, Bar > > > and Grill? Is this a heads up for plays on words within the song? I > > > found the previous discussion on possible product names within the > > > lyrics fascinating since, none those products have ever existed in > my > > > country. Humble and Pure for example. This is the only place I can > > > learn about these things. I wondered for many years what a Javix > > > bottle is. > > > > > > I think the jury is still out on Folly. Humble and Pure too for > that > > > matter. > > > > > > Mark in Sydney > > > > > > NP Night Fever - Bee Gees (the boys from Wollongong) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 10:07:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" Jim Lamadoo was also one of the first to jump into the "Humble makes Pure" discussion if memory serves. Another thought supporting Folly as a place (or a state of mind like Barangrill) is that the waitresses are serving up Singapore slings, a drink with yet another place name...don't know if that was intended or not and of course Singapore is a definite geographical location. Bob NP: Robin & The Mutts, "Woodstock" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:40:53 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" Looking at this lyric, I am also struck by the first line of the Folly/Humble Makes Pure verse: "Well some say it's in service". This also works in terms of waitress service, but also in the traditional sense of service to others, which also makes sense, to me, about Humble making Pure. I have a friend of 99 who often bemoans the fact that 'service' is no longer expected from people. I expect someone has already said that - apologies if you had, but I didn't spot it! Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:31:43 +0000 From: johnsonjs100@comcast.net Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" In terms of Recovery, service work and practicing humility on a daily basis are key to leading a happy life, free from being a slave. Jody Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T - -----Original Message----- From: Anita G Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:40:53 To: Bob Muller Cc: Mark; Richard Flynn; Mark-Leon Thorne; Subject: Re: You'e Hoping it's near folly" Looking at this lyric, I am also struck by the first line of the Folly/Humble Makes Pure verse: "Well some say it's in service". This also works in terms of waitress service, but also in the traditional sense of service to others, which also makes sense, to me, about Humble making Pure. I have a friend of 99 who often bemoans the fact that 'service' is no longer expected from people. I expect someone has already said that - apologies if you had, but I didn't spot it! Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 17:10:16 -0300 From: Gina Del Piero Subject: rickie & joni sure enough, lots of parallelisms between them have been discussed already. - - whats more a few days ago i was reading this interview morrisey did to joni, in which one of the questions goes: Morrisey: Or Rickie Lee Jones - her first album sleeve bore great resemblance to ... Joni: The beret and smoking Mores. I remember seeing that picture used with some ad campaign and thought, "Wait a minute. When did I take this picture?" - --- anyway, had you noticed this coincidence: Joni's Daughter: Kelly Green Rickie's daughther: Charlotte Rose In Spanish, "Rose" is "rosa", which also stands for "pink" And look how Rickie refers to her "little pink" here: "The greatest privilege of my life has been to be your guardian, little Rose." well, this is a "just for fun" comment hope you've enjoyed your weekend! cheers, Gina. _________________________________________________________________ ?Queris encontrar tus emails mas rapido? Organizalos por carpetas y asm es mas facil. Ver mas http://www.descubrewindowslive.com/hotmail/organizacion.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:50:18 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New article: Mama Cass Finds First TV Special Hard Work A new article has been added to the Library at JoniMitchell.com: Title: Mama Cass Finds First TV Special Hard Work Publication: The Argus Date: 1969.06.15 Read it here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2232 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #99 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe