From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #81 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, March 25 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 081 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: And we call for the three great irritants... [David Marine ] Berkeley 1972 [est86mlm@ameritech.net] Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... [] Re: Rare demos, live recordings, films [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] And we call for the three great irritants... [Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com] Re: And we call for the three great irritants... [Gina Del Piero ] Re: Willie's 3 Questions [Michael Flaherty ] Re: Willie's 3 Questions ["gene" ] Re: Willie's 3 Questions ["Kay" ] Re: Willie's 3 Questions [Mags ] Re: Willie's 3 Questions [T Peckham ] Re: And we call for the three great irritants... ["Randy Remote" Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... Hey List, IMO, Willie's post reveals him to be a complete asshole. I find it odd and amusing that anyone can read it any other way. Best, David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:15:34 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... From: "Laura Stanley" > Hate is what you read into Willie's post. He wasn't angry nor > being hateful. He was being inquisitive. I wouldn't > be surprised if she found his questions to be somewhat irritating but > mostly stimulating. I wouldn't be surprised if her jaw dropped, then she put out her cigarette on his forehead and walked away. Incendiary is what it was. And, if actually carried out, extremely rude and disrespectful. Since it was imaginary, and since Willie enjoys getting a rise out of people, I give him a pass. I don't think he crossed any line or flamed anyone. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:42:25 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... On 23 March 2010 18:15, Randy Remote wrote: > I don't think > he crossed any line or flamed anyone. > RR > I respect you have a different line, Randy, as we all do. Willie crossed my personal line about what's acceptable to me. I felt hurt and then angry. I have now found steps to take to avoid that here in the future, whilst also accepting Willie has a right to post others have a right to read. In a way, it's a microcosm of the macrocosm. I often ask myself how can I ever expect world peace when finding peace within myself is hard enough! And, of course, the whole world is full of wars over borderlines. We all have different boundaries/boarderlines about what's acceptable to us and what isn't. We are fortunate when we are adults that, a lot of the time, we can take steps to bring into our lives that which brings joy and keep out that which doesn't. My day job is hard enough. JMDL is part of my joy and I want to keep it that way, Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:58:41 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... Regardless of how people take Dickhead's stupid questions for Joni and his need to play games with the people on this list, I take offence at being called Mark-Lean Throne. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 04:36:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: asking Joni I kept thinking about this, and came up with the conclusion that I really couldn't just ask her 3 succinct questions, and that I really wouldn't want to. The only way I'd ever really want to say much more than "hello, it's wonderful to meet you" (or some such) would be if for some reason, which I can't imagine, we got into a conversation, in which case I'd love to talk about the relationship between music and painting, for her. I'd like to know if musical ideas ever occur to her while in "paint" mode. Is the music she has playing in the room while painting important to her work process? Does she listen on a huge, great stereo system...or for work purposes is a little, unassuming, non-attention grabbing little radio best? Does she have an old radio or boom-box that has paint all over it? What does she use for palettes? Does she ever use true black in her paintings? ( a no-no ) lol! I don't think she'd want her brain picked about the only real song conversation I'd want to have, and that is about "Blue". Like did she have underwater visions with that too? or not really? There's no way to really know these things. But these are the things I'd love to chat about. But only if it were easygoing type chatting. And the odds of that ever happening are not so good. Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 07:03:44 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: Berkeley 1972 I agree with Mark in Sydney......"very cool story, and glad you shared your memories with us," Steve. Since your picture is already in Chronology ........... add your story too! I love reading the experiences of others......and it is always a treat when someone shares their photos! Were you sitting close to the stage? Did you have to sneak your camera in? Your photo of Joni is so clear and close-up.....like the ones that accompany the newspaper reviews! Laura O. **************NJC Below******************************* BudLight T-shirt. Open to US but not CA. (But Joni may want one of these to wear while painting in her studio) After inputing your birthdate go to the next page, click on "Take The Party Home" square. It takes you to the entry for the instant win. You'll win one instantly until they are gone. Hurry! http://www.budlight.com/ Mini World Cup Soccer Ball. Open to US but not CA Enter to win a trip to South Africa. You'll win a soccer ball instantly until they are gone. Hurry! http://www.budweiser.com/en/world-of-budweiser/world-cup/man-of-the-match.aspx#/en/world-of-budweiser/world-cup/man-of-the-match Free Dunkin Donuts "Turbo" Coffee https://dunkinathome.safeprocessing.com/(S(dogiov55ojs5imfw5uza5l55))/Offers/DunkinAtHome/148/Offer.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:48:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Subject: Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... All these responses are very interesting. I find it amusing how based on one innocuous post, it can be determined that someone is a complete asshole, particularly when no one here has even met the individual in person. I'm sure there are many complete assholes who are very eloquent and respectful in their posting. Such is the nature of the online world. Victor Sent from Comcast Mobile - -----Original Message----- From: David Marine To: joni Sent: 2010-03-24 04:24:52 -0400 Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... Hey List, IMO, Willie's post reveals him to be a complete asshole. I find it odd and amusing that anyone can read it any other way. Best, David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:16:39 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... That's incorrect - as Dave Blackburn pointed out there are a series of posts he has sent that are inappropiate and insulting (basically ALL of them). If this was his first post people would be reacting differently - perhaps. I've hesitated posting about this particular stinkbomb because obviously as many of you have stated Willie is all about being controversial and getting attention and I didn't want to feed his ego or fan the flame of this post. And let's make no mistake, suggesting that Joni should commit suicide (which was what was implied in his question) is about the lowest you can go. Changing the subject (somewhat), having talked to Joni once, all you really need is (1) question and then she's off and running. Bob NP: Sonic Youth, "Incinerate" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:30:12 -0400 From: Sam Stone Subject: Rare demos, live recordings, films Hi I'm new to JMDL and I've got a question. What bootlegs (demos, live recordings, videos) are circulating and where can I find them? Thank you! Sam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:05:03 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Rare demos, live recordings, films Hi Sam, and welcome to the JMDL. Back in the day we traded cassettes and CD's and such (there is a LOT of material out there). But now there are a multitude of websites where you can download audio and video so the days of having to trade are pretty much gone. As for demos, about all that's in circulation are the "Hissing Demos" which is an excellent collection of (mostly) songs from Hissing Of Summer Lawns. Also in the 'must have' category are the recordings of the early songs that Joni wrote and performed but never recorded and/or released. I don't do the download thing (dime-a-dozen among others) but I know that many folks here do so I'll let them address how you can snag them. Bob NP: Nancy Wilson, "A Case Of You" Sam Stone Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org 03/24/2010 09:30 AM Please respond to Sam Stone To joni@smoe.org cc Subject Rare demos, live recordings, films Hi I'm new to JMDL and I've got a question. What bootlegs (demos, live recordings, videos) are circulating and where can I find them? Thank you! Sam - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:00:49 -0400 From: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Subject: And we call for the three great irritants... Hi Laura, I've been reading the back and forth bantering on this subject and I also have mixed feelings regarding Willy's posts. My personal opinion is that the list is open to all views so as long as he does not violate any rules here or make any personal attacks - I would agree with you that he has the right to express his opinion. However, I find it really strange that he remains silent and does not respond to the comments being made in reaction to his posting. I mean if your going to put something out there as provocative as his posting was - don't you think he owes it to the list to explain his anger? I directed this note to you since you say he is your friend - I am very curious then - why he is so angry with her? Do you think you can ask your friend Willie to tell us this in a reasonably respectful manner ? Thanks Laura............Stewart - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:40:11 -0300 From: Gina Del Piero Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... hey everyone! i've never posted before in the digest, buit have been following for a while. daily reading about willie's daring comment has got me too involved not to share my experience.. i am eighteen and live in Argentina (wouldn't be surprised if were one of the youngest and remostest round here), study letters and adore joni. like anita said, nobody i know cares about joni's music as much as i do. actually, i feel no one really hears to her music and her words. im sure anyone who does so, cannot help falling for her art. i dont recall how i got to know joni, but living with her music has changed my life completely; she is my beacon. what i love about joni is that, eventhough i feel i understand her and feel truly close to her emotions, there's always something i have yet to discover. obviouslly, having drenched in mitchell for a year is not to be compared with thirty or forty, but the research i do is never enough to cover the gap there is between the real joni and the joni that i've created in my head. i don't know if this sounds like crap to all of you, but reading the digest is one of the most useful and nutritive sources i have found to get to know her better. i will look past the discussion whether willie's comment was innapropriate or hurtful, which is as important. but what really caught my attention was the sincerity of the questions (the second one didnt got to me, though) all of you know joni much better than i do, and that's why i enjoy this discussion so much. you may all have thought about all the possibilities willie's questions open before, but i haven't. his questions did not make me doubt about joni, nor was i let down by joni's attitudes which might have given way to the rising of the questions. however, they made me think a lot, and here i should say Laura is right about irritability theory. as questions, they have yet to be answered and, leaving alone the god question, they show me a world of possibilities which might lead me to knowing jon ibetter, which is the main reason why i join this list. i think there are very interesting and quite dim topics to be discussed, but maybe you've done this in the past and i'm just too late for the ride! its a pleasure to share these words with joni lovers like myself, hope you understand what i'm getting at love gina. _________________________________________________________________ Espacio de almacenamiento siempre en crecimiento. Con Hotmail almacena 5GB y mas. Haci clic aqum http://www.descubrewindowslive.com/hotmail/almacenamiento.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:19:23 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... Gina, Thanks so much for your heartfelt message - wow, to be 18 and have all of Joni's work ahead of me to discover and discuss. Please don't be a stranger - you write beautifully and this is a wonderful source of information. New voices always bring a freshness to this group that us stale old-timers can't possibly hope to generate. Looking forward to your next post! Bob NP: Prince, "Musicology" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:56:27 +0000 From: "Kay" Subject: Willie's 3 Questions Hi Everyone, I hesitated to join the fray on this one, but I really need to voice my opinion here. Willie has made my stomach turn one too many times now. I appreciate Victor's philosophical perspective on this, but I'm right there with Anita: every post of Willie's that I've ever had the displeasure to read has been mean-spirited, manipulative, and calculated to get maximum bang for his buck. I find it tiresome and offensive. Does he have the right to say whatever he wants? Under the terms of the First Amendment, of course. But what is his contribution to this community? Some people might get a kick out of his crotchety, sarcastic posts, and he certainly inspires debate (about him) on this list, but my feeling is that his overall impact is destructive. Let's look at his 3 questions again: 1. Have you ever loved anyone more than yourself? Wow. That's a loaded question, and not a very nice one. Have you, Willie? 2. If you say that you believe in a God, why do you disgrace Him? Another doozy. Accusatory and manipulative. The accuracy of this supposition--as illustrated by her lyrics--has been addressed by others. But Willie, why exactly do you think that Joni has disgraced God? And who the hell are you to make that determination? I take it you believe in God (not everyone does, btw). If so, why not leave it up to Him to determine Joni's sins? I'm sure there's a tally somewhere with your name on it. 3. After your failed attempted suicide over the little affair with Jackson Browne, what's stopping you now? This is just totally beyond the fucking pale. Nothing funny about this, nothing redeeming; this is wildly inappropriate at best, and downright evil at worst. The contemptuous, sarcastic, goading subtext--"why not just go ahead and do it, Joni?"--actually made me feel sick to my stomach. Firstly, if it's even *true* that Joni attempted suicide (and if so, who actually knows the reason(s) why?), it's *not* common knowledge, even on this list. Secondly, it's revolting, appalling, and shamelessly self-aggrandizing to introduce this little tidbit of "inside" information in this manner. Willie, you'd better hope that Joni never sees what you wrote; she'd be well within her rights to sue you. She might not win, since the JMDL isn't a truly public forum, but her lawyers could certainly make your life turn to shit for a while. So, Willie, I have 3 questions for you: 1) Who the hell are you? Seriously. It's clear that you relish your mysterioso, assassin-like persona on this list, but perhaps it's time for you to come out of the shadows and explain exactly how you come by your "information." 2) Have you tried therapy? It might take a while, but it pays dividends in increased self-awareness and impulse control. 3) Why did you join the JMDL? I think there are lots of us who would appreciate an honest, sarcasm-free response to this question. In my opinion, the tenor and content of Willie's posts embody exactly the kind of inappropriate gossip-mongering and mean-spiritedness that would be Joni's worst nightmare about this list and the website that Wally created for her. This community has consistently made a point of being respectful towards her and towards its own members--for almost 15 years now. The old-timers on this list know of the very rare occasions when people have been asked to leave the list because of failures of respect. Perhaps we're there again. My apologies to list members who disagree or who think I'm over-reacting or having a lapse in humor. I just feel really strongly that we're a self-selected community, and one of the benefits of that is that we get to decide the values and the norms of our community. My experience is that the JMDL has decided that it's a community which tries very hard to eschew wanton disrespect and abuse. Sometimes it's necessary to censor (in the fullest meaning of the word) members when they consistently violate our collective values. With all that said, if Willie were to provide a reasonable answer to my first and third questions, perhaps we'd all have a better understanding of him and his motivations, and we might find that he is capable of contributing to this community in a more positive way than he has up to now. Or not. Kay npimh: Rufus Wainwright's "The Greek Song" ("...save your poison for someone who's on your side...") Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:47:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Willie's 3 Questions Thank you, Kay. Absolutely perfect, and I won't try to add to it. I will add something on censorship: this is not a "public" forum, but one that is owned by someone, and therefore no one has a "right" to post whatever he/she wants here. If I write a letter to an editor and he/she chooses not to print it, I haven't been "censored". Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:56:03 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: Re: Willie's 3 Questions Could it be that, Willie is really Jackson Browne????? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay" To: "Joni List" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:56 PM Subject: Willie's 3 Questions > Hi Everyone, > > I hesitated to join the fray on this one, but I really need to voice my > opinion here. Willie has made my stomach turn one too many times now. > > I appreciate Victor's philosophical perspective on this, but I'm right > there with Anita: every post of Willie's that I've ever had the > displeasure to read has been mean-spirited, manipulative, and calculated > to get maximum bang for his buck. I find it tiresome and offensive. Does > he have the right to say whatever he wants? Under the terms of the First > Amendment, of course. But what is his contribution to this community? Some > people might get a kick out of his crotchety, sarcastic posts, and he > certainly inspires debate (about him) on this list, but my feeling is that > his overall impact is destructive. > > Let's look at his 3 questions again: > > 1. Have you ever loved anyone more than yourself? > > Wow. That's a loaded question, and not a very nice one. Have you, Willie? > > 2. If you say that you believe in a God, why do you disgrace Him? > > Another doozy. Accusatory and manipulative. The accuracy of this > supposition--as illustrated by her lyrics--has been addressed by others. > But Willie, why exactly do you think that Joni has disgraced God? And who > the hell are you to make that determination? I take it you believe in God > (not everyone does, btw). If so, why not leave it up to Him to determine > Joni's sins? I'm sure there's a tally somewhere with your name on it. > > 3. After your failed attempted suicide over the little affair with Jackson > Browne, what's stopping you now? > > This is just totally beyond the fucking pale. Nothing funny about this, > nothing redeeming; this is wildly inappropriate at best, and downright > evil at worst. The contemptuous, sarcastic, goading subtext--"why not just > go ahead and do it, Joni?"--actually made me feel sick to my stomach. > Firstly, if it's even *true* that Joni attempted suicide (and if so, who > actually knows the reason(s) why?), it's *not* common knowledge, even on > this list. Secondly, it's revolting, appalling, and shamelessly > self-aggrandizing to introduce this little tidbit of "inside" information > in this manner. Willie, you'd better hope that Joni never sees what you > wrote; she'd be well within her rights to sue you. She might not win, > since the JMDL isn't a truly public forum, but her lawyers could certainly > make your life turn to shit for a while. > > So, Willie, I have 3 questions for you: > > 1) Who the hell are you? Seriously. It's clear that you relish your > mysterioso, assassin-like persona on this list, but perhaps it's time for > you to come out of the shadows and explain exactly how you come by your > "information." > > 2) Have you tried therapy? It might take a while, but it pays dividends in > increased self-awareness and impulse control. > > 3) Why did you join the JMDL? I think there are lots of us who would > appreciate an honest, sarcasm-free response to this question. > > In my opinion, the tenor and content of Willie's posts embody exactly the > kind of inappropriate gossip-mongering and mean-spiritedness that would be > Joni's worst nightmare about this list and the website that Wally created > for her. This community has consistently made a point of being respectful > towards her and towards its own members--for almost 15 years now. The > old-timers on this list know of the very rare occasions when people have > been asked to leave the list because of failures of respect. Perhaps we're > there again. > > My apologies to list members who disagree or who think I'm over-reacting > or having a lapse in humor. I just feel really strongly that we're a > self-selected community, and one of the benefits of that is that we get to > decide the values and the norms of our community. My experience is that > the JMDL has decided that it's a community which tries very hard to eschew > wanton disrespect and abuse. Sometimes it's necessary to censor (in the > fullest meaning of the word) members when they consistently violate our > collective values. > > With all that said, if Willie were to provide a reasonable answer to my > first and third questions, perhaps we'd all have a better understanding of > him and his motivations, and we might find that he is capable of > contributing to this community in a more positive way than he has up to > now. Or not. > > Kay > > npimh: Rufus Wainwright's "The Greek Song" ("...save your poison for > someone who's on your side...") > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:59:02 +0000 From: "Kay" Subject: Re: Willie's 3 Questions Holy crap, I never considered *that* possibility! LOL ;-) Kay Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T - -----Original Message----- From: "gene" Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:56:03 To: Kay; Joni List Subject: Re: Willie's 3 Questions Could it be that, Willie is really Jackson Browne????? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay" To: "Joni List" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:56 PM Subject: Willie's 3 Questions > Hi Everyone, > > I hesitated to join the fray on this one, but I really need to voice my > opinion here. Willie has made my stomach turn one too many times now. > > I appreciate Victor's philosophical perspective on this, but I'm right > there with Anita: every post of Willie's that I've ever had the > displeasure to read has been mean-spirited, manipulative, and calculated > to get maximum bang for his buck. I find it tiresome and offensive. Does > he have the right to say whatever he wants? Under the terms of the First > Amendment, of course. But what is his contribution to this community? Some > people might get a kick out of his crotchety, sarcastic posts, and he > certainly inspires debate (about him) on this list, but my feeling is that > his overall impact is destructive. > > Let's look at his 3 questions again: > > 1. Have you ever loved anyone more than yourself? > > Wow. That's a loaded question, and not a very nice one. Have you, Willie? > > 2. If you say that you believe in a God, why do you disgrace Him? > > Another doozy. Accusatory and manipulative. The accuracy of this > supposition--as illustrated by her lyrics--has been addressed by others. > But Willie, why exactly do you think that Joni has disgraced God? And who > the hell are you to make that determination? I take it you believe in God > (not everyone does, btw). If so, why not leave it up to Him to determine > Joni's sins? I'm sure there's a tally somewhere with your name on it. > > 3. After your failed attempted suicide over the little affair with Jackson > Browne, what's stopping you now? > > This is just totally beyond the fucking pale. Nothing funny about this, > nothing redeeming; this is wildly inappropriate at best, and downright > evil at worst. The contemptuous, sarcastic, goading subtext--"why not just > go ahead and do it, Joni?"--actually made me feel sick to my stomach. > Firstly, if it's even *true* that Joni attempted suicide (and if so, who > actually knows the reason(s) why?), it's *not* common knowledge, even on > this list. Secondly, it's revolting, appalling, and shamelessly > self-aggrandizing to introduce this little tidbit of "inside" information > in this manner. Willie, you'd better hope that Joni never sees what you > wrote; she'd be well within her rights to sue you. She might not win, > since the JMDL isn't a truly public forum, but her lawyers could certainly > make your life turn to shit for a while. > > So, Willie, I have 3 questions for you: > > 1) Who the hell are you? Seriously. It's clear that you relish your > mysterioso, assassin-like persona on this list, but perhaps it's time for > you to come out of the shadows and explain exactly how you come by your > "information." > > 2) Have you tried therapy? It might take a while, but it pays dividends in > increased self-awareness and impulse control. > > 3) Why did you join the JMDL? I think there are lots of us who would > appreciate an honest, sarcasm-free response to this question. > > In my opinion, the tenor and content of Willie's posts embody exactly the > kind of inappropriate gossip-mongering and mean-spiritedness that would be > Joni's worst nightmare about this list and the website that Wally created > for her. This community has consistently made a point of being respectful > towards her and towards its own members--for almost 15 years now. The > old-timers on this list know of the very rare occasions when people have > been asked to leave the list because of failures of respect. Perhaps we're > there again. > > My apologies to list members who disagree or who think I'm over-reacting > or having a lapse in humor. I just feel really strongly that we're a > self-selected community, and one of the benefits of that is that we get to > decide the values and the norms of our community. My experience is that > the JMDL has decided that it's a community which tries very hard to eschew > wanton disrespect and abuse. Sometimes it's necessary to censor (in the > fullest meaning of the word) members when they consistently violate our > collective values. > > With all that said, if Willie were to provide a reasonable answer to my > first and third questions, perhaps we'd all have a better understanding of > him and his motivations, and we might find that he is capable of > contributing to this community in a more positive way than he has up to > now. Or not. > > Kay > > npimh: Rufus Wainwright's "The Greek Song" ("...save your poison for > someone who's on your side...") > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:28:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Willie's 3 Questions that was a great post, Kay. I thank you for saying what I could not put into words myself. unfortunately, some less than kind, more than disturbed people do get on here and stick like some crazy glue. even when they've been asked to leave, even when their very existence is threatening; always behind the scenes. cowards abound. i am glad glad glad that you've point blank asked willy who he is. i'm curious to see what he says to all that. Mags - --- On Wed, 3/24/10, Michael Flaherty wrote: From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Willie's 3 Questions To: "Kay" , "Joni List" Received: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 4:47 PM Thank you, Kay. Absolutely perfect, and I won't try to add to it. I will add something on censorship: this is not a "public" forum, but one that is owned by someone, and therefore no one has a "right" to post whatever he/she wants here. If I write a letter to an editor and he/she chooses not to print it, I haven't been "censored". Michael F. __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:38:09 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Willie's 3 Questions Well said, Kay. And thanks to Mr. Muller and others for pointing out that Willie has a history of posting garbage. (Depending on the email program and how you have your "Trash" folder set up, one can search for deleted posts by keyword, such as name or subject, and find past comments.) There was concern among several listers (including myself) as to whether or not "Willie" might pose any threat in real life to Ms. Mitchell, however remote that possibility might seem. He claimed to have known Joni back in the 70s, and to have cowritten some of her songs. He also was repeatedly contacting Les imploring him to "get a msg. to Joni" for him. It appeared to me that it had been decided that Willie was not posing any threat and so had not been banned. (I presume, tho I don't know, that Willie's identity and location have been verified thru his IP address--?) I think what Michael said about so-called censorship is spot-on. In a sense, it's a *privilege* to belong and post to this list, not a right. My opinion (and that's all it is) is that Willie has long since abused that privilege and should be booted off. As for anyone here claiming him as a friend, nothing is stopping you from communicating with him off-list. There is a very special core group here (of which I am not a part) who have met at Jonifests and who have maintained friendships on and off the list, who can respectfully disagree on a variety of topics without hurting each other's feelings and without the obvious animosity that Willie displays. It seems to me that if several of those folks are repeatedly upset by his comments, that should be reason enough to ban him. Just my two cents. Terra On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Kay wrote: > Holy crap, I never considered *that* possibility! LOL > ;-) > Kay > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "gene" > Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:56:03 > To: Kay; Joni List > Subject: Re: Willie's 3 Questions > > Could it be that, Willie is really Jackson Browne????? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kay" > To: "Joni List" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:56 PM > Subject: Willie's 3 Questions > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I hesitated to join the fray on this one, but I really need to voice my > > opinion here. Willie has made my stomach turn one too many times now. > > > > I appreciate Victor's philosophical perspective on this, but I'm right > > there with Anita: every post of Willie's that I've ever had the > > displeasure to read has been mean-spirited, manipulative, and calculated > > to get maximum bang for his buck. I find it tiresome and offensive. Does > > he have the right to say whatever he wants? Under the terms of the First > > Amendment, of course. But what is his contribution to this community? > Some > > people might get a kick out of his crotchety, sarcastic posts, and he > > certainly inspires debate (about him) on this list, but my feeling is > that > > his overall impact is destructive. > > > > Let's look at his 3 questions again: > > > > 1. Have you ever loved anyone more than yourself? > > > > Wow. That's a loaded question, and not a very nice one. Have you, Willie? > > > > 2. If you say that you believe in a God, why do you disgrace Him? > > > > Another doozy. Accusatory and manipulative. The accuracy of this > > supposition--as illustrated by her lyrics--has been addressed by others. > > But Willie, why exactly do you think that Joni has disgraced God? And who > > the hell are you to make that determination? I take it you believe in God > > (not everyone does, btw). If so, why not leave it up to Him to determine > > Joni's sins? I'm sure there's a tally somewhere with your name on it. > > > > 3. After your failed attempted suicide over the little affair with > Jackson > > Browne, what's stopping you now? > > > > This is just totally beyond the fucking pale. Nothing funny about this, > > nothing redeeming; this is wildly inappropriate at best, and downright > > evil at worst. The contemptuous, sarcastic, goading subtext--"why not > just > > go ahead and do it, Joni?"--actually made me feel sick to my stomach. > > Firstly, if it's even *true* that Joni attempted suicide (and if so, who > > actually knows the reason(s) why?), it's *not* common knowledge, even on > > this list. Secondly, it's revolting, appalling, and shamelessly > > self-aggrandizing to introduce this little tidbit of "inside" information > > in this manner. Willie, you'd better hope that Joni never sees what you > > wrote; she'd be well within her rights to sue you. She might not win, > > since the JMDL isn't a truly public forum, but her lawyers could > certainly > > make your life turn to shit for a while. > > > > So, Willie, I have 3 questions for you: > > > > 1) Who the hell are you? Seriously. It's clear that you relish your > > mysterioso, assassin-like persona on this list, but perhaps it's time for > > you to come out of the shadows and explain exactly how you come by your > > "information." > > > > 2) Have you tried therapy? It might take a while, but it pays dividends > in > > increased self-awareness and impulse control. > > > > 3) Why did you join the JMDL? I think there are lots of us who would > > appreciate an honest, sarcasm-free response to this question. > > > > In my opinion, the tenor and content of Willie's posts embody exactly the > > kind of inappropriate gossip-mongering and mean-spiritedness that would > be > > Joni's worst nightmare about this list and the website that Wally created > > for her. This community has consistently made a point of being respectful > > towards her and towards its own members--for almost 15 years now. The > > old-timers on this list know of the very rare occasions when people have > > been asked to leave the list because of failures of respect. Perhaps > we're > > there again. > > > > My apologies to list members who disagree or who think I'm over-reacting > > or having a lapse in humor. I just feel really strongly that we're a > > self-selected community, and one of the benefits of that is that we get > to > > decide the values and the norms of our community. My experience is that > > the JMDL has decided that it's a community which tries very hard to > eschew > > wanton disrespect and abuse. Sometimes it's necessary to censor (in the > > fullest meaning of the word) members when they consistently violate our > > collective values. > > > > With all that said, if Willie were to provide a reasonable answer to my > > first and third questions, perhaps we'd all have a better understanding > of > > him and his motivations, and we might find that he is capable of > > contributing to this community in a more positive way than he has up to > > now. Or not. > > > > Kay > > > > npimh: Rufus Wainwright's "The Greek Song" ("...save your poison for > > someone who's on your side...") > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > - -- Curiosity is my religion. David Ryan Adams ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:59:18 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... From: "Gina Del Piero" > i think there are very interesting and quite dim topics to be discussed, > but > maybe you've done this in the past and i'm just too late for the ride! Gina, you are not too late! Feel free to bring up any topic you want-as you can see, sometimes we're just treading water here, anxious to explore another aspect of joniology. RR ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #81 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe