From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #80 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, March 24 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 080 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: And we call for the three great irritants... [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... [] Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... [Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... Adolf Hitler was irritating and he was certainly different. He was a revolutionary. Apartheid irritated a lot of people, so does Al Qaida. Bring it on says Laura. I say, we can do without the irritants. BTW What branch of biology do you study? That's the biggest croc I've ever read. There's a big difference between irritants and stimulants. Being disrespectful is never "worth reading" nor is it clever. Willie was just plain rude. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:17:32 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Berkeley 1972 Very cool story, Steve. What a great time and place to be living. So glad you shared your memories with us. Thanks for that. I was eight years old at that time so, not too familiar with Joni but, if I could go back there, I would head to California. Mark in Sydney NP Cloudbusting - Kate Bush ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:54:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Subject: Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... For the moment, let's say Willie was disrespectful. If so, what at all does that have to do with Hitler, Apartheid, or Al Qaida, organizations responsible for the deaths of many innocent people? I don't see the parallel. Last time I checked, Willie had not killed anybody. And from what I understand, Hitler was a very eloquent and charismatic speaker, which helped draw so many people to him. Some may find what Willie wrote a little shocking but he certainly did not say anything about anyone on this list nor was his statement directed towards anybody. And thinking further about it, I don't see that he really disrespected anyone. Not everybody may like his questions but whatever he came up with is no less legitimate than anyone else's. I like how this list allows for individual freedom of expression and this is a perfect example of that. Everyone will certainly have a different reaction, but did Willie break any list etiquette or personally attack anyone? The answer has to be no. To not accept Willie's post is the equivalent of censorship. To be honest, I find this whole thing rather amusing and makes for an interesting study of human nature and social interaction, Sending out good vibes of light, love, and peace... Victor Sent from Comcast Mobile - -----Original Message----- From: Mark-Leon Thorne To: sillyseabird Cc: jonipeople LIST Sent: 2010-03-23 04:29:19 -0400 Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... Adolf Hitler was irritating and he was certainly different. He was a revolutionary. Apartheid irritated a lot of people, so does Al Qaida. Bring it on says Laura. I say, we can do without the irritants. BTW What branch of biology do you study? That's the biggest croc I've ever read. There's a big difference between irritants and stimulants. Being disrespectful is never "worth reading" nor is it clever. Willie was just plain rude. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 23:52:45 +1100 From: Elisabeth Paschke Subject: my life with Joni Hi Mark-Leon and other 'smoesters' Quite a read this last digest, thanks Mark-Leon for your welcome. I've soaked in Joni's musical romance, politics and melody for much of the last twenty years. I saw her play in Christchurch New Zealand 1983, sat close to the front and felt as if she was playing directly specially to me (that's what they all say!) - I remember and particularly loved 'Amelia'. Refined elegant and powerful. Chalk Mark in A Rainstorm and Night Ride Home have been my main companions over these years. Maybe next will seek out Mingus. Thanks everyone for your interesting tangents to explore. I'm here in the (comparatively un) Snowy Mountains of Victoria Australia. Peace and Love and Good Health to All Elisabeth Paschke ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:00:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... >>Sending out good vibes of light, love, and peace... So it's okay to ask why someone, not just someone, but the person the list is built around, doesn't kill herself? Peace and love and here's a knife, now go cut your wrists, baby? I don't think so. I consider PERSONAL hate mail (not "I hate that album", but "I hate that person") to Joni to be inappropriate for this list--or at least mail that encourages a violent act. Finally, censorship would be to stop someone from speaking on his or her forum. No one has to let anyone else use their forum to "express" themselves. Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:14:04 +0000 (UTC) From: Subject: Re: Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... If you read the original posts, these were imaginary questions that might be asked in an imaginary meeting. There was nothing directive aimed towards Joni or anyone else. Those are all your words.

It's interesting how much anger this brings up in people.

Victor

Sent from Comcast Mobile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:13:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... For the record, I'm not angry. Beyond that, the whole imaginary Joni vs. real Joni ... I don't get that. Michael F. To: sillyseabird ; Mark-Leon ; Michael Cc: jonipeople Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 9:14:04 AM Subject: Re: Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... If you read the original posts, these were imaginary questions that might be asked in an imaginary meeting. There was nothing directive aimed towards Joni or anyone else. Those are all your words. It's interesting how much anger this brings up in people. Victor Sent from Comcast Mobile - ----- Original Message ----- From: mflaher3@yahoo.com To: waytoblue@comcast.net,sillyseabird@yahoo.com,mark-leon@iinet.net.au Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent:Tue Mar 23 02:00:52 UTC 2010 Subject: Re: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... >>Sending out good vibes of light, love, and peace... So it's okay to ask why someone, not just someone, but the person the list is built around, doesn't kill herself? Peace and love and here's a knife, now go cut your wrists, baby? I don't think so. I consider PERSONAL hate mail (not "I hate that album", but "I hate that person") to Joni to be inappropriate for this list--or at least mail that encourages a violent act. Finally, censorship would be to stop someone from speaking on his or her forum. No one has to let anyone else use their forum to "express" themselves. Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:18:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... Hi Michael, Hate is what you read into Willie's post. He wasn't angry nor being hateful. He was being inquisitive. And he told me he would ask her the questions today - in person if he could no doubt. I wouldn't be surprised if she found his questions to be somewhat irritating but mostly stimulating. The Hissing of Summer Lawns has touches of that. Like Willie, I am also curious as to why Joni doesn't get suicidal any more. I remember her saying something like romance is a trick nature plays on us. Hormonal maybe? So she it could be she doesn't fall prey to the trick anymore. I would like to hear it from the horse's mouth though. Oh dear, I just called Joni a horse. Please don't witch hunt me... Love, Laura On Mar 23, 2010, at 10:00 AM, Michael Flaherty wrote: > >>Sending out good vibes of light, love, and peace... > > So it's okay to ask why someone, not just someone, but the person > the list is built around, doesn't kill herself? > > Peace and love and here's a knife, now go cut your wrists, baby? I > don't think so. > > I consider PERSONAL hate mail (not "I hate that album", but "I hate > that person") to Joni to be inappropriate for this list--or at least > mail that encourages a violent act. > > Finally, censorship would be to stop someone from speaking on his or > her forum. No one has to let anyone else use their forum to > "express" themselves. > > > > Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:51:36 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... I think the undercurrent (well, from where I sit) running throughout this thread is the age old difficulty regarding Censorship v Freedom of Speech. At what point does one person's freedom of expression become another's experience of oppression? It actually reminds me of Joni's song 'Borderline', particularly the verse that goes; Every bristling shaft of pride Church or nation Team or tribe Every notion we subscribe to Is just a borderline Good or bad, we think we know As if thinking makes things so! All convictions grow along a borderline I know I often go on and on here about how the music of Joni MItchell has been part of my life for 42 years and how important it has been to me. I have also often talked of my sense of isolation becuase no-one seemed to care about her music the way I did. Then the internet came and BINGO there's JMDL. It's a place that I have made friends and even been to Festivals where people know the words as well as or even better than me! Amazing! So to see someone on the list (Willie) refer to Joni as Her Highness and ask her why she hasn't killed herself has been a real challenge for me. Although Willie hasn't personally attacked me, as I said before,I do feel extremely hurt. That's just my response, although others seem to share some of that. Near where I live, a local regiment returned from serving in Afghanistan. They had lost several comrades. Whilst marching through their home town a group of local Muslims held a protest reminding people of the deaths of Muslims in Afghanistan. Many people were highly indignant, outraged and hurt. Others felt that one of the positive aspects of democracy is all people have the right to be heard and to protest. The sense I make of this local protest parallel a little with my perceptions of the discussions here on this list regarding Willie's posts. For me, it's a Borderline. I would defend both Willie's right to post and my right to delete anything in my in box from him in the future. That way I will defend myself from what I perceive to be highly unpleasant, calculated and manipulative posts, whilst others can read and be interested by what he writes. Yours, liberally as ever, Anita ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:50:56 -0600 From: Kate Johnson Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... On 23-Mar-10, at 11:51 AM, Anita G wrote: > That way I will defend > myself from what I perceive to be highly unpleasant, calculated and > manipulative posts, whilst others can read and be interested by > what he > writes. Well said, Anita. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:52:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... me too, and I will suggest something that I have done and have had great success with. Someone was writing to me despite my pleas to stop, so I blocked their email address from my inbox and voila, nary a word travels across my borderline. as for people here getting upset about what was said, what the hell, that's how some people feel and therefore have reacted accordingly. I too was unimpressed/surprised/shocked by what was said. The notion of asking someone why they hadnt tried to kill themselves is harsh. And Im sure that Joni would not like it one bit if she was asked that question. That's pretty much a no brainer for me. but what the hell do I know. Im not her. Mags - --- On Tue, 3/23/10, Kate Johnson wrote: From: Kate Johnson Subject: Re: And we call for the three great irritants... To: "Anita G" Cc: "Laura Stanley" , "Michael Flaherty" , "joni@smoe.org" Received: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 2:50 PM On 23-Mar-10, at 11:51 AM, Anita G wrote: > That way I will defend > myself from what I perceive to be highly unpleasant, calculated and > manipulative posts, whilst others can read and be interested by what he > writes. Well said, Anita. Kate __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #80 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe