From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #47 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, February 19 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 047 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) [Catherine M] Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) [Bob.Muller@] Sally Barker and Debbie Cassell (The Joni Mitchell Project) [Paul Castle ] Re: Sally Barker and Debbie Cassell (The Joni Mitchell Project) [Bob.Mull] Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) [Bob.Muller@] Re: Sally Barker and Debbie Cassell (The Joni Mitchell Project) [Anita G ] Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) [Anita G Subject: Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) I don't think Joni's miserable either, even if she may come across that way in interviews. That is, if you read her comments, she may come across sounding miserable, but if you hear her voice, or see her being interviewed, the words may sound grumbly and miserable, but she herself does not. She seems to have a good, and ironic, sense of humour. As you say, if she didn't have a heart, she wouldn't write about these issues. She obviously has a great deal of passion about many issues in the world. I think she's either being ironic with that line (possibly), or else expressing the feeling I'm sure a lot of us have in these times we live in (more likely): there is just so much information about what's going on all over the world (war, famine, natural disasters, unnatural disasters, terrorism, child abuse and on it goes - a litany of sorrow), that sometimes you have to sort of distance yourself from it, recognizing the horror of it all in an almost objective way, but not being so immersed in it that you can't function. I think it is generally human nature to rise above pain and to forget about it, so that we can keep going. If it weren't for that, I'm sure we'd commit mass suicide and that would be the end of it. ________________________________ From: Walt Breen Joni has never struck me as *being* miserable, at least not most of the time. But I agree she mines her miseries -- which all of us have, even the happiest of us -- to create some of the most elegant lyrics I've ever known. Things tend to get boring when life is going well, so it's harder to write songs about being happy, imho, although of course, Joni has done so with varying degrees of success. When one *is* in physical or psychic pain, one way to deal with it is to look the difficulty right in the eye, anaylize it and defy or overcome it. People of an artistic bent tend to put this process out in one way or another. I've had my share of difficulties, but my way of dealing with some of the most dire periods of my life, believe it or not, is to find humor in it. I'm not sure whether this is something that can be learned or whether one has to be born with this quality. I seem to share some qualities with stand-up comedians. Joni's current ailments aside, I read her Shine album as being mostly content, with some grumbling about the state of the world. I found "If I Had a Heart I'd Cry" puzzling, because if she *didn't* have a heart, she wouldn't bother sharing her concerns with the state of the world. I think here she's maybe admitting to being disheartened, but not actually heartless. __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:07:34 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) Very well put, Catherine - it's as if she's saying "I wish I didn't have a (caring) heart" or something like that. Reminds me of the line in the Wizard of Oz when the Tin Man gets his heart and states that he knows he has one because it's breaking. That one gets to me every time. Bob NP: The Smithereens, "Sleep The Night Away" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:11:09 +0000 From: Paul Castle Subject: Sally Barker and Debbie Cassell (The Joni Mitchell Project) Bob wrote (on his recent Joni Covers, Volume 121 post) >10. Sally Barker - Real Good For Free: >11. Sally Barker - Big Yellow Taxi >12. Sally Barker - Carey >13. Sally Barker - Raised On Robbery: Sally is known as a member of The Poozies, >an English all-female traditional folk band which also claims Kate Rusby as a member. >2009 saw Sally branch out to form and tour with The Joni Mitchell Project. Her goal >is to pay homage to Joni's arrangements while still breathing new life into the songs. >You can't quibble with her voice which is very lovely. Hopefully some of you in the >UK were able to catch this show. She's doing more in March and April - coming to my fave live music/veggie tapas bar in London, The Green Note in Camden Town, on Sunday 21st March - see http://bit.ly/9YB7zw Bev and I will be there - perhaps we could make a UK JMDL night of it (?) Despite what it says on the Green Note's website, Sally will be accompanied by Debbie Cassell that night. Debbie is a great songwriter (and Joni interpreter) in her own right who I've known (and played with) for many years - she sang an incredible version of 'Case of You' at my 60th birthday party last year and the last time I saw her - a couple of weeks ago - completely blew me away with a beautiful version of 'The Boho Dance'. She has a selection of her own lovely songs @ http://www.myspace.com/debbiecassell best to all PaulC np 'Indian Giver' by Debbie Cassell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:15:39 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Sally Barker and Debbie Cassell (The Joni Mitchell Project) Very cool, Paul - wish I could make it, I'll be there in spirit. I'm betting a good crew of JMDLer's in London area will make it. Bob NP: The Replacements, "Portland" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:53:21 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) Then again, other songwriters tend to believe that Oz never did give nuthin' to the Tin Man that he didn't, didn't already have. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Poncho's Lament" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:51:10 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Sally Barker and Debbie Cassell (The Joni Mitchell Project) This sounds great. I'll put it in my diary Anita On 18 February 2010 18:11, Paul Castle wrote: > Bob wrote (on his recent Joni Covers, Volume 121 post) > > >10. Sally Barker - Real Good For Free: > >11. Sally Barker - Big Yellow Taxi > >12. Sally Barker - Carey > >13. Sally Barker - Raised On Robbery: Sally is known as a member of The > Poozies, > >an English all-female traditional folk band which also claims Kate Rusby > as a member. > >2009 saw Sally branch out to form and tour with The Joni Mitchell Project. > Her goal > >is to pay homage to Joni's arrangements while still breathing new life > into the songs. > >You can't quibble with her voice which is very lovely. Hopefully some of > you in the > >UK were able to catch this show. > > She's doing more in March and April - coming to my fave > live music/veggie tapas bar in London, The Green Note > in Camden Town, on Sunday 21st March - see > > http://bit.ly/9YB7zw > > Bev and I will be there - perhaps we could make a > UK JMDL night of it (?) > > Despite what it says on the Green Note's website, Sally > will be accompanied by Debbie Cassell that night. Debbie > is a great songwriter (and Joni interpreter) in her own > right who I've known (and played with) for many years - > she sang an incredible version of 'Case of You' at my 60th > birthday party last year and the last time I saw her - a > couple of weeks ago - completely blew me away with a > beautiful version of 'The Boho Dance'. > > She has a selection of her own lovely songs @ > http://www.myspace.com/debbiecassell > > best to all > PaulC > > np 'Indian Giver' by Debbie Cassell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:02:24 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) Gosh, Bob, Cat,Walt, this really links a lot together for me. I always viewed the line 'If I had a heart, I'd cry' as irony, especially after living with Joni's music for such a long time. I love the idea of the tin man and also Walt what you say about being disheartened rather than heartless as another take on it. I also thought, as you did Catherine, that maybe it was about the need to protect oneself from so much suffering that goes on all around us. There is just the possibility the woman is just a b....... but not in my book Anita x On 18 February 2010 21:53, wrote: > Then again, other songwriters tend to believe that Oz never did give > nuthin' to the Tin Man that he didn't, didn't already have. > > Bob > > NP: Tom Waits, "Poncho's Lament" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:28:20 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) I'm reminded of the Shelby Lynne song "If I Were Smart" (2003) that goes, in part: If I were smart I wouldn't have a heart If I were smart I wouldn't have a heart Oh the tin man played it cool, he said love's for fools But his emptiness was real, he wanted more But when his chest was pounding, he wished he'd never found it Cause the hurt came hard and tears began to pour If he were smart He wouldn't have a heart If he were smart He wouldn't have a heart > Gosh, Bob, Cat,Walt, this really links a lot together for me. I always > viewed the line 'If I had a heart, I'd cry' as irony, especially after > living with Joni's music for such a long time. I love the idea of the tin > man and also Walt what you say about being disheartened rather than > heartless as another take on it. I also thought, as you did Catherine, > that > maybe it was about the need to protect oneself from so much suffering that > goes on all around us. > > There is just the possibility the woman is just a b....... but not in my > book > Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:29:11 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Catherine McKay" Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:15 AM To: "Walt Breen" ; "Jonilist Digest" Subject: Re: Mining Misery for Fun and Profit (was Dunno life at all) > I don't think Joni's miserable either, even if she may come across that > way in > interviews. That is, if you read her comments, she may come across > sounding > miserable, but if you hear her voice, or see her being interviewed, the > words > may sound grumbly and miserable, but she herself does not. She seems to > have > a good, and ironic, sense of humour. As you say, if she didn't have a > heart, > she wouldn't write about these issues. She obviously has a great deal of > passion about many issues in the world. I think this is an excellent observation. I agree wholeheartedly. It's hard to tell in a printed interview what the tone of anyone's remarks really is. On the rare occasion that we actually see or hear Joni being interviewed, she is often obviously being ironic or she will punctuate a remark with a chuckle or an outright laugh. > > I think she's either being ironic > with that line (possibly), or else expressing the feeling I'm sure a lot > of us > have in these times we live in (more likely): there is just so much > information about what's going on all over the world (war, famine, natural > disasters, unnatural disasters, terrorism, child abuse and on it goes - a > litany of sorrow), that sometimes you have to sort of distance yourself > from > it, recognizing the horror of it all in an almost objective way, but not > being > so immersed in it that you can't function. I think it is generally human > nature to rise above pain and to forget about it, so that we can keep > going. > If it weren't for that, I'm sure we'd commit mass suicide and that would > be > the end of it. This reminds me of an Iris Dement song called 'No Time to Cry'. I never thought of it in connection with 'If I Had a Heart I'd Cry'. The last verse especially seems to express some of the same emotion in a more 'folky' way: Now I sit down on the sofa and I watch the evening news There's half a dozen tragedies from which to pick and choose A baby that was missing was found in a ditch today And there's bombs a flying and people dying not so far away I'll take a beer from the 'fridgerator and go sit out in the yard And with a cold one in my hand I'm gonna bite down and swallow hard Because I'm older now and I got no time to cry And the chorus: I've got no time to look back and I've got no time to see The pieces of my heart that have been ripped away from me And if a feeling starts to coming, I've learned to stop 'em fast Cause I don't know if I let them go they might not wanna pass And there's just so many people trying to get me on the phone And there's bills to pay, and songs to play, and a house to make a home I guess I'm older now and I've got no time to cry Maybe Joni feels like all the pieces of her heart have been ripped away from her as far as some things are concerned. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #47 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe