From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #21 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, January 24 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 021 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- American Idol Joni cover [Bob Muller ] Re: American Idol Joni cover [Michael Paz ] going backwards with Scott Brown, now w/ some ooby shooby Joni content [P] RE: If..... ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: If..... [fmyfl@aol.com] Re: If..... [Anita G ] Re: If..... [Bob Muller ] Me, too, dammit! & using Joni's song for defiance and healing [Walt Breen] Re: If..... [Michael Paz ] Re: If..... [Vince ] Re: Me, too, dammit! & using Joni's song for defiance and healing [Bob Mu] Re: If..... ["Mark" ] Re: If..... [revrvl@gmail.com] RE: If..... [Deb Messling ] RE: If..... ["Richard Flynn" ] Phoebe Snow [David Marine ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 08:12:48 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: American Idol Joni cover The good news: Katharine McPhee (she did pretty well on AI I think, never watch it) has recorded a cover of Joni's only top ten hit "Help Me". The bad news - it's ONLY available as a bonus track on I-Tunes. Damn you Apple! And in other bad news - Hey Les, when is JM.com coming up again? Bob NP: Warren Zevon, "Jeannie Needs A Shooter" (in a WZ mood today, playing through the albums of his I have) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 10:25:44 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: American Idol Joni cover I was accessing the website a couple of days ago researching guitar tabs and had no trouble but it is done again today Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Jan 23, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Bob Muller wrote: The good news: Katharine McPhee (she did pretty well on AI I think, never watch it) has recorded a cover of Joni's only top ten hit "Help Me". The bad news - it's ONLY available as a bonus track on I-Tunes. Damn you Apple! And in other bad news - Hey Les, when is JM.com coming up again? Bob NP: Warren Zevon, "Jeannie Needs A Shooter" (in a WZ mood today, playing through the albums of his I have) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:26:06 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: going backwards with Scott Brown, now w/ some ooby shooby Joni content Chere Anne (ma triplette de BelleJoniville) wrote: Now that I'm taking a 5 minute break, I was about to write pretty much exactly what you said, Bob. This has me SO upset. Since WHEN do corporations have the same rights as citizens?????? WTF happened to "We the people..." It's not "We the corporate entities..." And, Bob, you've managed to summarize the health insurance reform in a way that nobody else has. How about Bob for prez? :-) lots of love, Anne ************** And me, the chirp. Here's my heart, on a silver platter. (TIC! I'll put on my finest silver...) WARNING: Long and winding road. Don't say I didn't warn ya! ; ) "Lots of love" indeed, mon amie. It's what the world needs now. My thoughts exactly, Anne & Bob. It gets so lonely, when you're walking and the streets are full of strangers. All the news of home you read, just give you the bluuues. So thank you for sharing your thoughts. I approve your self-expression! (I need your confidence, too, babies, and the gift of your extra time.....you know the rest of the lyrics!) And there is even more bad news. Just when we need it the most, Air America is gone, like the turn of a page: http://tinyurl.com/y8ccplf I try not to write when I'm sad, but really, this has been the worst week for "girls like us" (and boys, too): who "love our loving, but not like we love our freeeEEEEeeeeDOM!" I can keep my cool at Facebook But I'm a fool when JMDL love's at stake Because I can't conceal emotion What I'm feeling's always written on my posts So many Joni lyrics are swirling in my heart and mind (bars in her head), but I'll select just one to sum up the geopolitical again and again the same situation: Money kicks the wide wide world around. It's getting really hard to raise the candles high during this Stormy Weather. In my own little corner of this marbled bowling ball, you know it gets hard keeping the wheels turning, too. This first week of classes is always the week from hell (everybody calling me up for favors -- money and hi-tech rooms go up the chimney like childhood Santa Claus), but of all of the hope and the hopelessness I've witnessed over 20 years at UConn, this is the most helplessly hoping time. The humanities are hard hit. "Wannabe U" here wants to "sunset under-performing graduate programs", and none of our brilliant PhD students can find jobs or even interviews! (What will life be like w/out the arts and humanities??? Short-sighted business men making all of our decisions?) And on top of that, our beloved Coach Calhoun has taken a sudden medical leave (not life-threatening, they say, but related to stress), and we don't know if he will come back or not. Pleasure moves on too early, and trouble leaves too slow. And, of course, there's our suffering Joni, fighting for her life. May she be well! (Are you there, God? It's me, Patricia Margaret. Please don't be such a boogie man!) So all of this political merde combined with the tragedy you can't just drive by (Haiti), and things look pretty bad. BUT...Both Sides NOW! Hope does spring eternal. It was great to see Neil last night, and hear Hallelujah,and you know there were more. And the whole world coming together in a massive humanitarian effort just makes your heart sing a sad song, wanting to make it better, better, better, YEAH! Let's hope that Joni is right, and that bad dreams are good in the great plan, and that the darkest hour is just before dawn. We must somehow carry on (love is coming!) and be the songbirds, singing Power to the People, Strong and Wrong, Revolution (Hi Beej!), STAND (Hi Em!), Instant Karma, and you know there may be more. Shine. IF. (Thanks, Anita dear heart!) CAUSE We've got the fight We've got the insight. Let all our little lights SHINE, come together, right now, like blazes, all across the sky! Sunny day here. I should braid some wildflowers (flower power!) and leaves in my hair and turn it into a funny day, looking for laughter. Yes! Muller for President! Now THERE is a change I can believe in. (I need to believe in something, once I could in Obama love. But it passes like summer...) Can I be Secretary of Peace? They won't give peace a chance, but I would do my best and I'd do good business to keep the dream alive. Thank you for this space. "Thank you for your presence and for being here and everything. Thank you very much!" I wish all of you un bon weekend. All I really really want our love to do, is to bring out the best in me, and you, too. The peace and the star, Patti P. in Flip City, U.S.A (Blues) "If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace." -- John Lennon http://www.imaginepeace.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 12:53:29 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: If..... I'm sorry, what tainted it for me is Rudyard Kipling--don't get me wrong, there's some great Kipling, but "If" is right up on the list of his worst, just below "White Man's Burden," as far as I'm concerned. I'm embarrassed for Joni when I listen to it. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > Corey Blake > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:27 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: If..... > > I hate to say it, but that song and poem were kind of tainted when Gov. > Blagojevich quoted it at a press conference. I can still enjoy them, > but I > always think of that when I hear it. > > -Corey > > On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 9:51 AM, wrote: > > > > share it with my jmdl buddies> > > > > Glad you did, Anita - my favorite song on Shine. > > > > Bob > > > > NP: Leona Naess, "Panic Stricken" > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me > > Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com > > Mailing List - http://coreyblake.googlepages.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:56:09 EST From: fmyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: If..... I couldn't agree more Richard. I've always thought Kiplings "If" was his worse poem. I had to study Kipling in college, and naturally "If" was debated in our class. I've never liked the poem, and even though Joni sings it nice enough, I always skip that track on Shine. Just my take. Jimmy In a message dated 1/23/2010 12:59:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, rflynn@frontiernet.net writes: > I'm sorry, what tainted it for me is Rudyard Kipling--don't get me wrong, > there's some great Kipling, but "If" is right up on the list of his worst, > just below "White Man's Burden," as far as I'm concerned. I'm embarrassed > for Joni when I listen to it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 20:40:04 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: If..... The great thing about this list is hearing all the wider takes and thoughts about 'If' and everything else that comes in day by day. I haven't read a great deal of Kipling's poetry and, to my shame, am mostly familiar with the 'Jungle Book.' I think, in regards to my experience of 'If' yesterday and bearing in mind Joni's reference to her illness, I just found myself wondering if it might be Joni's final 'original' song. Although I don't see myself as having a personal hotline to Joni (though there have been times in my life when I may have been almost bonkers enough to believe I might have had), the thought of Joni not being in the world anymore was very painful for me. The original words that Joni added to the Kipling ('You'll be alright. 'cos you got the fight you got the insight') felt like she was telling me that I would be alright. That, after 42 years of listening to her music and my life experiences, that these days, I've got the fight and I've got some insight. I have worked very hard over the years to make some sense and meaning of my life. As a 'seeker of mental health',the idea of being alright and having both fight and insight seemed to help in a moment of considerable grief. I am a survivor. Maybe not a personal hotline, but thanks Joni Love Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 12:48:12 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: If..... I can sort of gloss over the words, and I wasn't familiar with the poem to begin with. I just like the sound of it and the positive vibe. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:04:26 -0700 From: Walt Breen Subject: Me, too, dammit! & using Joni's song for defiance and healing Hey Bob, just wanted to add my "Right on!" to the chorus of others who agree about Supreme Court's decision being more harmful that Brown's election. A bad president can do more long-term harm to the economy, to the election process, and to society than any one good president can fix. Bush's putting two hard-core conservatives on the Court has set us up for more astonishingly hare-brained decisions like this last one. Putting corporations and yes, even labor unions, in a position to bribe and pressure both elections and the judiciary, is appalling. Does anyone remember the scene in Angels in American, set in a restaurant, where Royn Cohn, Joe Pitt (the Morman whose worlds get shattered during the movie) and some hack aide to President Reagan are talking about America's bright new future with a Supreme Court and Judiciary locked in and the possibility of a one-party state? During Clinton's and now Obama's term, one would hope that this kind of thing was unimaginable, but look what ruination Bush's lackeys accomplished in 8 years. Oh, well, the only thing to do when you're angry or bereft (my dog Mari, whom I described back in December when I rejoined the club, died Tuesday after 3 weeks of misery; and my favorite detective novelist, Robert Parker, died the same day; and Brown get elected), you've got to laugh, search for joy or peace or both, and get the bad energy out somehow. When already sick from AIDS and then diagnosed with cancer in '95, I listened and sang along to Joni's "Sire of Sorrow", singing in defiance of... whatever. The disease, my crappy luck... The refrain, "What have I done to you, that you make everything I dread and everything I fear ciome true?", really resonated with me, and singing along helped. Of course there are many songs of Joni's that bliss me out or fill me with joy and others that nake me cry. Hey, does anyone else weep when they hear Facelift? For me, it's a wistful song, more so since Joni's mom died, and I usually tear up when listening or playing/singing it. Part of the reason I love Shine so much is that, like in TI and TtT, she grumbles, but she seems happier to me, and the last two songs, Shine and If, are killers. Rather than just grumbling, she asks us let our little lights shine (everone knows the gospel song This Little Light, right? I'm a couple of years behind, as usual), that is, to be aware of the world around us, good things and bad. I laughed my ass off the first time I heard "Shine on another asshole passing on the right." In theme, it reminded me of the song "Be Aware" by Burt Bacharach. Sung once on TV by Babs Streisand, it was also on one of Dionne's most obscure albums, "Dionne" from 1972, and more recently by another musical heroe of mine, Laura Nyro, on "Angel in the Dark", her very posthumously released final album of new material; she also sings BB's "Walk on By" on the album. Back to Joni, although the lyrics of "If" are based on anorther's work, the advice is very sound, and the melody is one of her loveliest ever, and of course the last verse If you can fill a minute With 60 seconds of wonder and delight... [snip] But more than that, I know You'll be all right You'll be all right 'Cause you've got the fight, You've got the insight... These words inspire me, and hope they inspire her in her fight with Morgellon's. Love to all, Walt _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 17:08:40 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: If..... You old fart what would you know?? I luv that tune and agree with Muller it's got a positive vibe to it and it makes *ME* (and not only am *I* in the "inner circle" I am also the center) feel good and I can dance to it. LOL Paz (in Kerrville) Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Jan 23, 2010, at 1:56 PM, fmyfl@aol.com wrote: I couldn't agree more Richard. I've always thought Kiplings "If" was his worse poem. I had to study Kipling in college, and naturally "If" was debated in our class. I've never liked the poem, and even though Joni sings it nice enough, I always skip that track on Shine. Just my take. Jimmy In a message dated 1/23/2010 12:59:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, rflynn@frontiernet.net writes: > I'm sorry, what tainted it for me is Rudyard Kipling--don't get me > wrong, > there's some great Kipling, but "If" is right up on the list of his > worst, > just below "White Man's Burden," as far as I'm concerned. I'm > embarrassed > for Joni when I listen to it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:36:47 -0500 From: Vince Subject: Re: If..... I think all Kipling sucks. I came across a George Orwell quote on Kipling: *the prophet of British Imperialism in its expansionist phase.* Kipling is all noble white Man superior to coloreds (and women). What is the big climax of the poem If? "Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!" It is not out of context that Kipling thought being a Man was everything and never thought of women as equal, or worth his literary attention. It improved my day to read two JMDL stalwarts comment " I've never liked the poem, and even though Joni sings it nice enough, I always skip that track on Shine." and "I'm embarrassed for Joni when I listen to it." I liked it better when she played off of Yates and St. Paul and Alex North/Hy Zaret. Vince > > On Jan 23, 2010, at 1:56 PM, fmyfl@aol.com wrote: > > I couldn't agree more Richard. I've always thought Kiplings "If" was his > worse poem. I had to study Kipling in college, and naturally "If" was > debated > in our class. I've never liked the poem, and even though Joni sings it > nice > enough, I always skip that track on Shine. Just my take. > > Jimmy > > In a message dated 1/23/2010 12:59:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rflynn@frontiernet.net writes: > > > I'm sorry, what tainted it for me is Rudyard Kipling--don't get me > > wrong, > > there's some great Kipling, but "If" is right up on the list of his > > worst, > > just below "White Man's Burden," as far as I'm concerned. I'm > > embarrassed > > for Joni when I listen to it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 17:00:27 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Me, too, dammit! & using Joni's song for defiance and healing That, in and of itself, makes the song worthwhile and even imbues it with more meaning for me. I'm sorry to hear of Mari's passing - sending peace and good thoughts to you my friend. Bob NP: U2, "Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 17:54:47 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: If..... - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Vince" Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 3:36 PM Cc: ; ; ; Subject: Re: If..... > I think all Kipling sucks. I came across a George Orwell quote on > Kipling: > *the prophet of British Imperialism in its expansionist phase.* > Kipling > is all noble white Man superior to coloreds (and women). > > What is the big climax of the poem If? > "Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, > And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!" > And I think it's significant that Joni leaves the bit about 'you'll be a Man my son' out of the song. I'm not really familiar with Kipling at all. I think Joni liked some of what the poem had to say. She cut out what she didn't like. I like the song. Although I must admit, I have yet to familiarize myself with 'Shine'. Not that I think it's a bad record. But it somehow falls into the same category as 'Turbulent Indigo' for me. Too dark, in some ways. And I don't have my car anymore and that was where I used to listen to music. Your mention of British Imperialism is a bit of synchronicity for me. I've been watching 'The Jewel and the Crown' with my friend Melanie. I've never seen it before. So far, it's an intriguing story. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:02:52 +0000 From: revrvl@gmail.com Subject: Re: If..... Jewel in the Crown is one of the great tv~movie~cinema masterpieces of all time! I loue it so! Vince - ------Original Message------ From: Mark To: Vince Cc: fmyfl@aol.com Cc: rflynn@frontiernet.net Cc: coreyblake@gmail.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: If..... Sent: Jan 23, 2010 8:54 PM - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Vince" Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 3:36 PM Cc: ; ; ; Subject: Re: If..... > I think all Kipling sucks. I came across a George Orwell quote on > Kipling: > *the prophet of British Imperialism in its expansionist phase.* > Kipling > is all noble white Man superior to coloreds (and women). > > What is the big climax of the poem If? > "Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, > And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!" > And I think it's significant that Joni leaves the bit about 'you'll be a Man my son' out of the song. I'm not really familiar with Kipling at all. I think Joni liked some of what the poem had to say. She cut out what she didn't like. I like the song. Although I must admit, I have yet to familiarize myself with 'Shine'. Not that I think it's a bad record. But it somehow falls into the same category as 'Turbulent Indigo' for me. Too dark, in some ways. And I don't have my car anymore and that was where I used to listen to music. Your mention of British Imperialism is a bit of synchronicity for me. I've been watching 'The Jewel and the Crown' with my friend Melanie. I've never seen it before. So far, it's an intriguing story. Mark in Seattle Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 23:27:13 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: RE: If..... >I dislike Kipling's poem. I just have an aversion to inspirational or >moralistic sentiments in verse form. I prefer my poetry to be specific, >pointed, concrete. What I love about Joni's lyrics is that she usually >doesn't indulge in generalities. Instead she gives us vivid images - for >example, of a woman's toilet ("Paprika Plains") or moral complexities (the >whole of "Shadows and Light" or Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"). Joni as a reader of poetry doesn't impress me very much; she reminds me of a high school kid who just finds the whole endeavor too, too difficult. Joni as a *writer* of poetry impresses me a great deal. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 23:42:38 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: If..... Deb, this is an excellent insight! > -----Original Message----- > From: Deb Messling [mailto:dlmessling@rcn.com] > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:27 PM > To: Richard Flynn; 'Corey Blake'; joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: If..... > > > >I dislike Kipling's poem. I just have an aversion to inspirational or > >moralistic sentiments in verse form. I prefer my poetry to be > specific, > >pointed, concrete. What I love about Joni's lyrics is that she > usually > >doesn't indulge in generalities. Instead she gives us vivid images - > for > >example, of a woman's toilet ("Paprika Plains") or moral complexities > (the > >whole of "Shadows and Light" or Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"). > > Joni as a reader of poetry doesn't impress me very much; she reminds me > of > a high school kid who just finds the whole endeavor too, too > difficult. Joni as a *writer* of poetry impresses me a great deal. > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deb Messling -^..^- > dlmessling@rcn.com > http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:56:53 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: Phoebe Snow Hey List, I haven't seen the last few digests. Any update on the condition of Phoebe Snow? My prayers go out to her... David ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #21 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe